Current Mini Will Go Out With a Bang
Date Posted 08-24-2005
OXFORD, England ? BMW is making plans for its expanded next-generation Mini lineup but it's planning to send the current model into retirement with its fastest version ever.
The final version of the old Mini will be a lightweight Cooper S that will be even faster than the John Cooper-tuned Minis now being made at the Mini factory.
Mini's enthusiast Web site says the lightweight Cooper S will probably be announced at the Frankfurt auto show next month, and the model will be a strictly limited edition ? probably 2,000 cars worldwide.
Weight savings of around 15 percent have been made by using carbon-fiber body panels, a stripped-down interior with racing-style seats, acrylic rather than glass windows, and lighter door casings, side panels and dashboard.
The lighter weight, combined with the 210-horsepower John Cooper Works tuning kit, will make for the fastest Mini yet ? so powerful it will need upgraded suspension and brakes.
What this means to you: It's hard to imagine the Mini as a classic just yet, but surely this has to be the one to have.
Reminds me of the Mini Type R thingy C/D tested.
Sweet.
Awesome.
They're going to stop making the Cooper?
They're redesigning it.
QuoteThey're redesigning it.
That's a shame. I fear that they're doing it too quickly, and that the redesign won't prove as good looking or as well handling.
QuoteQuoteThey're redesigning it.
That's a shame. I fear that they're doing it too quickly, and that the redesign won't prove as good looking or as well handling.
Great minds think alike. :P
I was just about to say the same thing. Redesigns don't usually result in a smaller, lighter, simpler, nor a cheaper car.
Seems too soon.
I don't want a 4-door Mini. :(
I wanna RWD mini.
QuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
QuoteQuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
Because he's a fool. Someone should really take the time to tell him why RWD isn't needed on a car that size, and FWD and RWD both have distinct advantages--plus, with the suspension tuning of a Mini Cooper, if you know how to drive you can get oversteer, if that's what he wants so badly.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
Because he's a fool. Someone should really take the time to tell him why RWD isn't needed on a car that size, and FWD and RWD both have distinct advantages--plus, with the suspension tuning of a Mini Cooper, if you know how to drive you can get oversteer, if that's what he wants so badly.
No, it's because i'm a RWD troll, and a RWD Mini would be very unique, a cheaper 1series.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
Because he's a fool. Someone should really take the time to tell him why RWD isn't needed on a car that size, and FWD and RWD both have distinct advantages--plus, with the suspension tuning of a Mini Cooper, if you know how to drive you can get oversteer, if that's what he wants so badly.
No, it's because i'm a RWD troll, and a RWD Mini would be very unique, a cheaper 1series.
Cheaper 1-er my ass. Mini's don't need to be RWD. That's like saying a wal-mart bike should have 2WD. It obviously doesn't need it and isn't necessary.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
Because he's a fool. Someone should really take the time to tell him why RWD isn't needed on a car that size, and FWD and RWD both have distinct advantages--plus, with the suspension tuning of a Mini Cooper, if you know how to drive you can get oversteer, if that's what he wants so badly.
No, it's because i'm a RWD troll, and a RWD Mini would be very unique, a cheaper 1series.
Cheaper 1-er my ass. Mini's don't need to be RWD. That's like saying a wal-mart bike should have 2WD. It obviously doesn't need it and isn't necessary.
It's not necessary for you, but for me, it is.
QuoteQuoteThey're redesigning it.
That's a shame. I fear that they're doing it too quickly, and that the redesign won't prove as good looking or as well handling.
I have to agree, the styling is still fresh and it is still selling well, it just needs a facelift not a complete redesign. New engines and a redone interior would would address many people's complaints.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
Because he's a fool. Someone should really take the time to tell him why RWD isn't needed on a car that size, and FWD and RWD both have distinct advantages--plus, with the suspension tuning of a Mini Cooper, if you know how to drive you can get oversteer, if that's what he wants so badly.
No, it's because i'm a RWD troll, and a RWD Mini would be very unique, a cheaper 1series.
Cheaper 1-er my ass. Mini's don't need to be RWD. That's like saying a wal-mart bike should have 2WD. It obviously doesn't need it and isn't necessary.
It's not necessary for you, but for me, it is.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI wanna RWD mini.
Why? Minis have always been FWD.
Because he's a fool. Someone should really take the time to tell him why RWD isn't needed on a car that size, and FWD and RWD both have distinct advantages--plus, with the suspension tuning of a Mini Cooper, if you know how to drive you can get oversteer, if that's what he wants so badly.
No, it's because i'm a RWD troll, and a RWD Mini would be very unique, a cheaper 1series.
Cheaper 1-er my ass. Mini's don't need to be RWD. That's like saying a wal-mart bike should have 2WD. It obviously doesn't need it and isn't necessary.
It's not necessary for you, but for me, it is.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
why?
Rag, have you even driven a RWD car?
QuoteRag, have you even driven a RWD car?
yup. :praise:
Have you driven a RWD, FWD, and AWD car?
QuoteHave you driven a RWD, FWD, and AWD car?
well, i just said i drove a RWD car, and obviously i've driven a FWD car, but not an AWD car. Doesn't really matter though.
QuoteQuoteRag, have you even driven a RWD car?
yup. :praise:
Good, at least you aren't making your idiotic comments without any basis for them. Just out of curiousity, what car did you drive?
QuoteQuoteQuoteRag, have you even driven a RWD car?
yup. :praise:
Good, at least you aren't making your idiotic comments without any basis for them. Just out of curiousity, what car did you drive?
An MR-2. It's my friends. AFter i drove that, i fell in love with 'em. Now i want one so bad. :praise:
Okay, so you're comparing a MR-2 (a lightweight midengined car) to an Accord V6 ( a not so lightweight frontengined car) and coming to the conclusion that RWd is better for all cars? No wonder, but there are things other than RWD that make the MR-2 handle so well.
QuoteOkay, so you're comparing a MR-2 (a lightweight midengined car) to an Accord V6 ( a not so lightweight frontengined car) and coming to the conclusion that RWd is better for all cars? No wonder, but there are things other than RWD that make the MR-2 handle so well.
Ive also driven other FWD cars too, you know. Like a toyota echo. :lol:
You don't have much basis for your assumptions, Rag...sorry to say.
Oh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
QuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
QuoteYou don't have much basis for your assumptions, Rag...sorry to say.
umm... i've driven lots of cars. I think thaht RWD is what i'd like.
QuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
I dont think you have pushed any of these cars around...have you taken them both in the turns and evaluated the handling limits of both of them? For what you were probably driving in, there would be little forseeable difference between RWD, and FWD.
QuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
QuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
The Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Doing stuff in your school parking lot isnt a determining factor to let you know all about FWD, you know. ;)
QuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
well, as i said, i 'pushed' them by driving as fast as i could around a circular planter thingy without losing control. it's about the size of a skidpad.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Doing stuff in your school parking lot isnt a determining factor to let you know all about FWD, you know. ;)
i know, but the MR-2 felt much more balanced, and i could get it drifting by jabbing the gas.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Remember that the MR-2 mk 1 was pretty much a 1980s Elise. It was very light and midengined, probably the best handling car of its day. But, cars like the Prelude and Integra are FWD for a reason.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Remember that the MR-2 mk 1 was pretty much a 1980s Elise. It was very light and midengined, probably the best handling car of its day. But, cars like the Prelude and Integra are FWD for a reason.
why?
And i'm not saying that all FWD cars should be banished to hell or anything. I wanted an integra GS-R, but i heard that those get stolen a lot for the engine and tranny, so i decided that was a no go.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Doing stuff in your school parking lot isnt a determining factor to let you know all about FWD, you know. ;)
i know, but the MR-2 felt much more balanced, and i could get it drifting by jabbing the gas.
You can't really compare and MR-2 to whatever other car you drove...you do realize that, right?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Doing stuff in your school parking lot isnt a determining factor to let you know all about FWD, you know. ;)
i know, but the MR-2 felt much more balanced, and i could get it drifting by jabbing the gas.
You can't really compare and MR-2 to whatever other car you drove...you do realize that, right?
why not? they're both small, light low powered cars.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Remember that the MR-2 mk 1 was pretty much a 1980s Elise. It was very light and midengined, probably the best handling car of its day. But, cars like the Prelude and Integra are FWD for a reason.
why?
And i'm not saying that all FWD cars should be banished to hell or anything. I wanted an integra GS-R, but i heard that those get stolen a lot for the engine and tranny, so i decided that was a no go.
It allows them to be smaller and to have more interior room, plus they were cheaper because they were FWD. What you don't realize is that a RWD Mini Cooper would likely cost as much as a 120i (or whatever the base engine model is) and have very, very little interior room.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Doing stuff in your school parking lot isnt a determining factor to let you know all about FWD, you know. ;)
i know, but the MR-2 felt much more balanced, and i could get it drifting by jabbing the gas.
You can't really compare and MR-2 to whatever other car you drove...you do realize that, right?
why not? they're both small, light low powered cars.
The MR-2 is mid engined, a mid engine car will almost always handle better than a front engine one.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Doing stuff in your school parking lot isnt a determining factor to let you know all about FWD, you know. ;)
i know, but the MR-2 felt much more balanced, and i could get it drifting by jabbing the gas.
You can't really compare and MR-2 to whatever other car you drove...you do realize that, right?
why not? they're both small, light low powered cars.
Preludes are heavier, have longer wheelbases, and aren't exactly meant for track duty and tossin' around like an MR-2. ;)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh yeah, that is another great handler :rolleyes: . Have you driven a Mazda6, Mazda3, NX2000, MX-3, MX-6, or Prelude? Those are all excellent handling FWD cars.
I've driven the latest gen prelude. (the last one before production stopped), and an Integra. Do integras count?
Yep, what did you think of them?
I loved it, even though it had a huge ass fart can on it. But it was no where as nice as that MR-2 MK1.
And dave, i did some hard launches and stuff in my school parking lot. The FWD cars tended to push too much into the corner, and i couldn't get the back end loose. And the integra torque steered a lot.
Remember that the MR-2 mk 1 was pretty much a 1980s Elise. It was very light and midengined, probably the best handling car of its day. But, cars like the Prelude and Integra are FWD for a reason.
why?
And i'm not saying that all FWD cars should be banished to hell or anything. I wanted an integra GS-R, but i heard that those get stolen a lot for the engine and tranny, so i decided that was a no go.
It allows them to be smaller and to have more interior room, plus they were cheaper because they were FWD. What you don't realize is that a RWD Mini Cooper would likely cost as much as a 120i (or whatever the base engine model is) and have very, very little interior room.
it already doesn't have any interior room.
Exactly the problem, a RWD Mini Cooper would have even less. It would pretty much have to be a one person car!
QuoteExactly the problem, a RWD Mini Cooper would have even less. It would pretty much have to be a one person car!
They could make it a two seater hatchback.
QuoteQuoteExactly the problem, a RWD Mini Cooper would have even less. It would pretty much have to be a one person car!
They could make it a two seater hatchback.
That is practically what it already is ;). Getting rid of the rear seat wouldn't solve the problem, it would just make the car even less practical.
QuoteQuoteQuoteExactly the problem, a RWD Mini Cooper would have even less. It would pretty much have to be a one person car!
They could make it a two seater hatchback.
That is practically what it already is ;). Getting rid of the rear seat wouldn't solve the problem, it would just make the car even less practical.
you can make the car smaller by adding RWD, and then having space in the back by removing the seats.
You aren't getting it, the problem isn't the diff in the back, it is the driveshaft and transmission running between the driver and passengar seats that would cause a problem.
QuoteYou aren't getting it, the problem isn't the diff in the back, it is the driveshaft and transmission running between the driver and passengar seats that would cause a problem.
why? there's already a hump there...
Not one big enough to fit a transmission in.
QuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
QuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
QuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
Not very plausible/practical.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
Not very plausible/practical.
I just wanna RWD mini as a special edition model, like the Renault Clio V6.
I doubt that will ever happen...thought it is a cool idea.
QuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
Do you realize just how small a Mini is? Even with a rear transaxle the tranny would still have to poke between the front seats.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
Not very plausible/practical.
I just wanna RWD mini as a special edition model, like the Renault Clio V6.
The Renault Clio Sport V6 uses what is basically a FWD drivetrain, it is just put in the backseat. Something like that might work with the Mini, but I am not sure there would be enough space.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
Not very plausible/practical.
I just wanna RWD mini as a special edition model, like the Renault Clio V6.
The Renault Clio Sport V6 uses what is basically a FWD drivetrain, it is just put in the backseat. Something like that might work with the Mini, but I am not sure there would be enough space.
I doubt there's enough space in the back of a Mini to put the engine and tranny...
There would be enough room to put the current Cooper S drivetrain in there, but not enough for a bigger, more powerful engine.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
Not very plausible/practical.
I just wanna RWD mini as a special edition model, like the Renault Clio V6.
The Renault Clio Sport V6 uses what is basically a FWD drivetrain, it is just put in the backseat. Something like that might work with the Mini, but I am not sure there would be enough space.
the Clio V6 is RWD.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNot one big enough to fit a transmission in.
you fit the tranny at the back
And there goes your rear seat space and cargo room.
i said to take out the rear seats. ;)
Not very plausible/practical.
I just wanna RWD mini as a special edition model, like the Renault Clio V6.
The Renault Clio Sport V6 uses what is basically a FWD drivetrain, it is just put in the backseat. Something like that might work with the Mini, but I am not sure there would be enough space.
the Clio V6 is RWD.
Yeah...?
Of course, if you move a FWD drivetrain to the back it will make the car RWD.
QuoteOf course, if you move a FWD drivetrain to the back it will make the car RWD.
so basically the V6's platform is backwards with rear steer?
No, the transmission is the same one used in a FWD Citreon, meaning that the engine is horizontally opposed while most RWD cars have transversely opposed engines.
QuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
The Crown Victoria is far from the best example of RWD handling.
And as for the Mini, I've heard about them moving to a two piece front end to save expenses, which means a loss of structural rigidity that will adversely affect handling.
QuoteQuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
The Crown Victoria is far from the best example of RWD handling.
And as for the Mini, I've heard about them moving to a two piece front end to save expenses, which means a loss of structural rigidity that will adversely affect handling.
I understand that...I was just sayin' that the first thing I did notice was the swap from FWD to RWD, regardless of the car in which that swap was performed.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
The Crown Victoria is far from the best example of RWD handling.
And as for the Mini, I've heard about them moving to a two piece front end to save expenses, which means a loss of structural rigidity that will adversely affect handling.
I understand that...I was just sayin' that the first thing I did notice was the swap from FWD to RWD, regardless of the car in which that swap was performed.
I've driven numerous front and rear drive cars, as well as a few AWD ones, and I've been in many more of them while they were driven hard, and I've seen some FWD cars that will handle better than some RWD cars--for example, my Passat handles better than my friend's last gen Mustang.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
The Crown Victoria is far from the best example of RWD handling.
And as for the Mini, I've heard about them moving to a two piece front end to save expenses, which means a loss of structural rigidity that will adversely affect handling.
I understand that...I was just sayin' that the first thing I did notice was the swap from FWD to RWD, regardless of the car in which that swap was performed.
I've driven numerous front and rear drive cars, as well as a few AWD ones, and I've been in many more of them while they were driven hard, and I've seen some FWD cars that will handle better than some RWD cars--for example, my Passat handles better than my friend's last gen Mustang.
Why is that? Does the Stang have a farther forward weight bias that causes more understeer than in your Passat?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
The Crown Victoria is far from the best example of RWD handling.
And as for the Mini, I've heard about them moving to a two piece front end to save expenses, which means a loss of structural rigidity that will adversely affect handling.
I understand that...I was just sayin' that the first thing I did notice was the swap from FWD to RWD, regardless of the car in which that swap was performed.
I've driven numerous front and rear drive cars, as well as a few AWD ones, and I've been in many more of them while they were driven hard, and I've seen some FWD cars that will handle better than some RWD cars--for example, my Passat handles better than my friend's last gen Mustang.
Why is that? Does the Stang have a farther forward weight bias that causes more understeer than in your Passat?
That whole suspension is a mess. I raced my buddy's GT in my E320 (his car runs a quarter mile nearly 2 seconds faster than mine) and at the end of the road, I had to get out of the car and wait for him. It goes into turns like a fish out of water.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
The Crown Victoria is far from the best example of RWD handling.
And as for the Mini, I've heard about them moving to a two piece front end to save expenses, which means a loss of structural rigidity that will adversely affect handling.
I understand that...I was just sayin' that the first thing I did notice was the swap from FWD to RWD, regardless of the car in which that swap was performed.
I've driven numerous front and rear drive cars, as well as a few AWD ones, and I've been in many more of them while they were driven hard, and I've seen some FWD cars that will handle better than some RWD cars--for example, my Passat handles better than my friend's last gen Mustang.
Why is that? Does the Stang have a farther forward weight bias that causes more understeer than in your Passat?
The 1970s based platform might have something to do with it. Add a live rear axle which is a sub-par design (even for LRAs), a chassis that isn't particularly stiff by today's standards, etc...
That said, with a competent driver they can do pretty well in the turns. It's not the greatest handling car in the world, but I would actually put it ahead of the Passat with driver's of equal skill. A guy over at AF has a previous gen Stang (2004 I think) and beats Vettes at the autocross.
QuoteThe Impala we drove for driver's ed was FWD. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Grand Marquis was the difference between FWD and RWD. For around town driving, it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm sure you haven't pushed any of those cars to the limits to really tell.
That's really the first thing you SHOULD notice, otherwise you shouldn't be driving :lol:
Personally speaking, I haven't driven any of the really-good handling FWD cars. However, of the ones I have driven, I just didn't like it. I hopped out of my Audi yesterday and hopped into my friend's Scion tC the other day and stole it just for fun (none of my friends can do that to my car). The Scion's a small car and steering feel and handling is probably better than your average FWD car... I just didn't like it. My Audi has bad weight distribution, but AWD makes it feel balanced. I just don't like the way you feel everything's happening in front of you rather than all around you with AWD or RWD.
Why shouldnt you be driving if you cant tell if it's RWD or FWD? I bet most people wouldnt tell a difference in normal day driving.
QuoteWhy shouldnt you be driving if you cant tell if it's RWD or FWD? I bet most people wouldnt tell a difference in normal day driving.
Because most RWD cars really DO feel MUCH different than most FWD cars. Knowing where your applying the power you control is a key factor in how well you drive and how aware you are.
The tC immediately screamed FWD! when I got going. And the tC is a small car, and it's not dynamically terrible, either. My Audi isn't RWD, either, and it's also a bit nose-heavy... That's the reason I say that one should really pick up on the change right away.
I can pardon someone for getting into a CV out of their civic and not thinking "RWD!" right away, but if you go from a 50/50 RWD 325i to a nose-heavy FWD car like the TL and you don't immediately pick up the difference...
I see what your saying. I misunderstood I guess :)
A FWD can never feel the same as a RWD car. However, a good FWD setup certainly doesn't feel bad, just different.
A RWD Mini just wouldn't be a proper Mini.
QuoteA FWD can never feel the same as a RWD car. However, a good FWD setup certainly doesn't feel bad, just different.
A RWD Mini just wouldn't be a proper Mini.
I agree completely.
QuoteA FWD can never feel the same as a RWD car. However, a good FWD setup certainly doesn't feel bad, just different.
A RWD Mini just wouldn't be a proper Mini.
I agree.