Though we don't know ALL the details, it seems like VDubz is actually going to produce the BlueSport in one iteration or another. Since it's going to be diesel-powered, that raises the question as to whether or not they'll sell it here. I hope they do!
Has anyone heard anything on how this vehicle is coming along?
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01237/Vw_1237977c.jpg)
I hope so. It would be a compelling personal sportscar in the $30-$35K range. Much better looking than the current EOS.
If we get the Porsche variant, I don't think we will. Americans haven't completely embraced diesels, and also, why sell a $30k VW sports car when the same people who'd buy it would be willing to buy a CPO Boxster or just get the $40k Porsche version instead?
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 04:25:13 PM
If we get the Porsche variant, I don't think we will. Americans haven't completely embraced diesels, and also, why sell a $30k VW sports car when the same people who'd buy it would be willing to buy a CPO Boxster or just get the $40k Porsche version instead?
I don't think that really reflects the American consumer's mindset.
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on March 27, 2010, 04:29:27 PM
I don't think that really reflects the American consumer's mindset.
There is definitely a market for something like this in the US, but here are some obstacles:
-GM couldn't be profitable with the SolSky after raising the price $5,000 after the first year. It sold like hotcakes. If that couldn't make it at $30,000, who's to say VW could sell this for the same amount? Figure at least $35k.
-At that price, why not just get a Miata instead?
-I don't think there's a huge market for something like this in the US.
-Also, perception. How will they market this thing?
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 04:34:28 PM
-At that price, why not just get a Miata instead?
The Miata is not mid engined.
Quote from: Galaxy on March 27, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
The Miata is not mid engined.
Suddenly, it's 2001 all over again. We all know how that one went, too.
(http://www.carforums.net/reviews/makes/pictures/toyota10.jpg)
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 04:54:27 PM
Suddenly, it's 2001 all over again. We all know how that one went, too.
(http://www.carforums.net/reviews/makes/pictures/toyota10.jpg)
Correct me of I am wrong, but i believe that this was a vehicle which had almost zero synergy with other Toyotas, which made it extremely expensive for Toyota to make. The Blue Sport concept on the other had is basically the MQB plattform backwards.
Quote from: Galaxy on March 27, 2010, 05:27:15 PM
Correct me of I am wrong, but i believe that this was a vehicle which had almost zero synergy with other Toyotas, which made it extremely expensive for Toyota to make. The Blue Sport concept on the other had is basically the MQB plattform backwards.
The MR-2 was also extremely impractical, making it impossible to be used as a daily car for most people, whereas an MX-5 would suffice. It was ugly as well. And for most of its life, it didn't offer an automatic transmission. And, not to mention that the interior was cheap and looked it; the MX-5's was much better. And when it wasn't an instant success, Toyota abandoned it to sell more boring sedans. So despite being a better car than the MX-5, it was a sales failure.
I do hope they sell a gas version of the BlueSport as well. I will absolutely buy one, if they sell it with a proper manual and don't R32 us.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 04:34:28 PM
There is definitely a market for something like this in the US, but here are some obstacles:
-GM couldn't be profitable with the SolSky after raising the price $5,000 after the first year. It sold like hotcakes. If that couldn't make it at $30,000, who's to say VW could sell this for the same amount? Figure at least $35k.
That's not why it wasn't profitable. The technology for the platform was just too expensive. A more traditional approach to manufacturing the car would have made it fine.
-At that price, why not just get a Miata instead?
Choice.
-I don't think there's a huge market for something like this in the US.
You're flat out wrong. The Miata is the only affordable sports car.
-Also, perception. How will they market this thing?
As a cheap convertible, duh.
Quote from: Rockraven on March 27, 2010, 04:20:36 PM
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01237/Vw_1237977c.jpg)
I hope so. It would be a compelling personal sportscar in the $30-$35K range. Much better looking than the current EOS.
Better pictures:
(http://www.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_623/car_photo_311710_25.jpg)
(http://www.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_623/car_photo_311716_25.jpg)
(http://www.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_623/car_photo_311695_25.jpg)
(http://www.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_623/car_photo_311686_25.jpg)
That's very nice looking.
I love that car!
Don't get me wrong, it looks nice. But VW isn't going to be able to hock a modern Karman Ghia in the US.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, it looks nice. But VW isn't going to be able to hock a modern Karman Ghia in the US.
This is nowhere near a Karmann Ghia.
This is an MR sports car, not a slow, 4-place rear engined coupe.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, it looks nice. But VW isn't going to be able to hock a modern Karman Ghia in the US.
And you've come to this informed decision by studying the market?
Sub-30K sports cars are one of the least attended market sectors; as it stands, the MX-5 is the only one left. If there is a place to fit a new car, this is it.
VW has lofty goals when it comes to expanding sales.
If they want so free advice i'll be happy to provide.
If you want to sell more cars(around the world and I believe the US was a bigger target), there is one thing they could do.....OFFER MORE CARS.
Sell this here, bring over the scirocco too.
Quote from: Raza on March 27, 2010, 09:34:06 PM
And you've come to this informed decision by studying the market?
Sub-30K sports cars are one of the least attended market sectors; as it stands, the MX-5 is the only one left. If there is a place to fit a new car, this is it.
It won't be under $30k.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 10:21:00 PM
It won't be under $30k.
VW claims it will be priced at MX-5 levels. Though I suppose that could mean that a stripped Blue Sport could cost as much as a loaded MX-5.
I hope they don't cheapon away details like the aluminium fluel tank door with city of Wolfsburg's emblem etched into it. It's little things like that which add character to a car imo.
Quote from: Galaxy on March 28, 2010, 08:53:10 AM
I hope they don't cheapon away details like the aluminium fluel tank door with city of Wolfsburg's emblem etched into it. It's little things like that which add character to a car imo.
Agreed. Will the Porsche version have Stuttgart's prancing horse on the fuel tank door? :lol:
Quote from: Autobahn on March 28, 2010, 09:47:21 AM
Agreed. Will the Porsche version have Stuttgart's prancing horse on the fuel tank door? :lol:
If you as a Swabian doesn't know, who else will? :lol:
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 10:21:00 PM
It won't be under $30k.
And you've come to this conclusion by sitting in on VW conference calls? Evo says it'll be GTI money. I trust them over you.
Quote from: Galaxy on March 27, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
The Miata is not mid engined.
A fact that didn't help the Toyota MR-S one bit.
I happened across this little beauty when perusing Wikipedia a while back. Apparently it was exclusive to the Brazilian market. VW should revive it (or something that draws heavily from its styling), and sell it worldwide.
(http://air-cooled-vw.com/LimeSP2.jpg)
(http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2006/08/vw_sp2.jpg)
Quote from: MX793 on March 28, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
A fact that didn't help the Toyota MR-S one bit.
Quote from: Raza on March 27, 2010, 07:21:26 PM
The MR-2 was also extremely impractical, making it impossible to be used as a daily car for most people, whereas an MX-5 would suffice. It was ugly as well. And for most of its life, it didn't offer an automatic transmission. And, not to mention that the interior was cheap and looked it; the MX-5's was much better. And when it wasn't an instant success, Toyota abandoned it to sell more boring sedans. So despite being a better car than the MX-5, it was a sales failure.
I do hope they sell a gas version of the BlueSport as well. I will absolutely buy one, if they sell it with a proper manual and don't R32 us.
Quote from: Raza on March 28, 2010, 06:59:08 PM
And you've come to this conclusion by sitting in on VW conference calls? Evo says it'll be GTI money. I trust them over you.
$25k? Ha ha. I call bullshit.
Quote from: MX793 on March 28, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
A fact that didn't help the Toyota MR-S one bit.
People who actually care about the fact that there's a mid-engine layout aren't very likely to buy Toyotas in the first place. VWs are far more palatable.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 28, 2010, 08:35:02 PM
$25k? Ha ha. I call bullshit.
Well, it better be $25K. People are only willing to pay so much for a car, and I'm sure given their recent history VW is well aware of this fact in the U.S. market. Why do you think the Passat is being shit-canned in favor of something cheaper? If they can't build this thing for under $30K they shouldn't bother. Or it'll be doomed to the fate of the 1-Series, a decent car but the manufacturer seriously jumped the shark on pricing.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 27, 2010, 10:08:03 PM
VW has lofty goals when it comes to expanding sales.
If they want so free advice i'll be happy to provide.
If you want to sell more cars(around the world and I believe the US was a bigger target), there is one thing they could do.....OFFER MORE CARS.
Sell this here, bring over the scirocco too.
MORE cars?
Besides the VW range (Golf, Jetta, Passat, Passat CC, Tiguan, Touraeg, that minivan thing), there's the ever expanding Audi (A3, A4, A5, A6, A8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7). In the rest of the world, there's SEAT and Skoda. Not forgetting Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti. VW now has a stake in Suzuki too - what's the betting they'll take it over in full at some point?
I think that's not far off the Toyota/Lexus range in the US in terms of choice, and they do pretty well in sales. GM proved that more is not necessarily more, and as a fierce GM critic I'm sure you'd agree...
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 29, 2010, 10:33:39 AM
MORE cars?
Besides the VW range (Golf, Jetta, Passat, Passat CC, Tiguan, Touraeg, that minivan thing), there's the ever expanding Audi (A3, A4, A5, A6, A8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7). In the rest of the world, there's SEAT and Skoda. Not forgetting Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti. VW now has a stake in Suzuki too - what's the betting they'll take it over in full at some point?
I think that's not far off the Toyota/Lexus range in the US in terms of choice, and they do pretty well in sales. GM proved that more is not necessarily more, and as a fierce GM critic I'm sure you'd agree...
I think he means in the US, where VW's presence us quite limited.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 29, 2010, 11:19:31 AM
I think he means in the US, where VW's presence us quite limited.
Actually, I think all those cars listed are available in the US. Perhaps they need a wider dealer presence?
Quote from: Jon? on March 29, 2010, 11:20:55 AM
Actually, I think all those cars listed are available in the US. Perhaps they need a wider dealer presence?
Or, just cut the price.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 29, 2010, 10:33:39 AM
MORE cars?
Besides the VW range (Golf, Jetta, Passat, Passat CC, Tiguan, Touraeg, that minivan thing), there's the ever expanding Audi (A3, A4, A5, A6, A8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7). In the rest of the world, there's SEAT and Skoda. Not forgetting Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti. VW now has a stake in Suzuki too - what's the betting they'll take it over in full at some point?
I think that's not far off the Toyota/Lexus range in the US in terms of choice, and they do pretty well in sales. GM proved that more is not necessarily more, and as a fierce GM critic I'm sure you'd agree...
Don't forget Porsche
Quote from: the Teuton on March 28, 2010, 08:35:02 PM
$25k? Ha ha. I call bullshit.
I trust them over you...
Quote from: 2o6 on March 29, 2010, 11:19:31 AM
I think he means in the US, where VW's presence us quite limited.
...which my post specifically addressed.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 29, 2010, 12:26:24 PM
...which my post specifically addressed.
I count 13 models at the US VW website, if you don't break out diesel models. Toyota's US site lists 16.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 29, 2010, 12:26:24 PM
...which my post specifically addressed.
But how are they limited here? We don't get the Fox, Scirocco or Touran, but we get everything else. At least in this area, there are plenty of dealerships, and until one burnt down a couple years back, there were 3 VW dealers within 20 minutes of my house.
On that note, I'll just say for the record that I wish they
did sell the Scirocco here.
I certainly don't want such a lovely convertible with a diesel engine, and I doubt many Americans would, either.
Quote from: Jon™ on March 29, 2010, 12:45:36 PM
I count 13 models at the US VW website, if you don't break out diesel models. Toyota's US site lists 16.
New Beattle, Golf, GTI, Jetta, EOS, Passat, CC, Tiguan, Routan, Touareg ... what are the others? (don't count wagons as separate models, even splitting the GTI isn't neccessary.)
Quote from: TurboDan on March 29, 2010, 05:21:00 PM
But how are they limited here? We don't get the Fox, Scirocco or Touran, but we get everything else.
You also don't get the Phaeton or the Caddy, Sharan, Transporter, Multivan etc.
Quote from: AltinD on March 30, 2010, 06:27:28 AM
New Beattle, Golf, GTI, Jetta, EOS, Passat, CC, Tiguan, Routan, Touareg ... what are the others? (don't count wagons as separate models, even splitting the GTI isn't neccessary.)
They have the wagons separate on their site. They also break out the Beetle Convertible. I think that accounts for 13.
Thank god they don't differentiate by engine trim also. Sometimes, 5 years ago, they were offering (in Europe) more then 10 engine trims on the Passat alone :lol:
Petrol: 1.6, 1.8T, 2.0 8v, 2.0 20v, 2.5 V5, 2.8 V6, 4.0 W8,
Diesel (TDi): 1.9 90HP, 1.9 110Hp, 1.9 130Hp, 2.5 V6 which I think reached 180HP at the end of the life-cycle
And then you had the option of MT or AT and AWD 4Motion on most of them.
Quote from: TurboDan on March 29, 2010, 05:21:00 PM
But how are they limited here? We don't get the Fox, Scirocco or Touran, but we get everything else. At least in this area, there are plenty of dealerships, and until one burnt down a couple years back, there were 3 VW dealers within 20 minutes of my house.
On that note, I'll just say for the record that I wish they did sell the Scirocco here.
I meant that post was with regard to the US market - I was demonstrating the VW do have a significant presence there and I only listed models available in America (as I recall anyway, I didn't check on the VW site).
Quote from: Xer0 on March 29, 2010, 11:40:09 AM
Don't forget Porsche
Of course! I keep forgetting!
Quote from: Jon? on March 29, 2010, 12:45:36 PM
I count 13 models at the US VW website, if you don't break out diesel models. Toyota's US site lists 16.
I think VW more than compensate with the amount of Audi models vs the amount of Lexus models.
Ha, I didn't even know they still made the Phaeton. They sold that here until a couple years ago. Hardly anybody bought them.
Quote from: Jon? on March 30, 2010, 06:32:28 AM
They have the wagons separate on their site. They also break out the Beetle Convertible. I think that accounts for 13.
I don't care what they call models. The models that they sell are the New Beetle, Golf, Eos, Jetta, Passat, CC, Tiguan, Touareg and Routan. Any variation of these are trim levels/body styles.
That said, it's still a pretty comprehensive lineup.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 27, 2010, 04:25:13 PM
why sell a $30k VW sports car when the same people who'd buy it would be willing to buy a CPO Boxster or just get the $40k Porsche version instead?
Because they wouldn't be willing to buy a CPO Boxster and not everyone just has an extra 10 grand laying around?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on March 30, 2010, 01:41:39 PM
Because they wouldn't be willing to buy a CPO Boxster and not everyone just has an extra 10 grand laying around?
If you're buying a sports car, you're most likely not buying it as your primary people mover.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 30, 2010, 01:58:35 PM
If you're buying a sports car, you're most likely not buying it as your primary people mover.
Dude, you lost. Just stop. The neighbors are staring.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 30, 2010, 01:59:26 PM
Dude, you lost. Just stop. The neighbors are staring.
NEVAR!
Quote from: BimmerM3 on March 30, 2010, 01:37:31 PM
I don't care what they call models. The models that they sell are the New Beetle, Golf, Eos, Jetta, Passat, CC, Tiguan, Touareg and Routan. Any variation of these are trim levels/body styles.
That said, it's still a pretty comprehensive lineup.
Yeah, that was the point I was making. Their lineup here is really only lacking a truck.
Quote from: Jon? on March 30, 2010, 02:16:44 PM
Yeah, that was the point I was making. Their lineup here is really only lacking a truck.
Amarok
(http://www.heise.de/autos/imgs/14/4/4/9/6/0/0/c32877a15dfbe4df.jpeg)
Not in the US yet, but probably soon.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 30, 2010, 01:58:35 PM
If you're buying a sports car, you're most likely not buying it as your primary people mover.
But what does that have to do with how much money you have? You
can like sports cars but not be able to afford a $40K sports car.
Quote from: Galaxy on March 30, 2010, 02:20:51 PM
Amarok
(http://www.heise.de/autos/imgs/14/4/4/9/6/0/0/c32877a15dfbe4df.jpeg)
Not in the US yet, but probably soon.
Wow, how can they not be selling that in the U.S.? Does it sell well anywhere else?
Looks kinda like a nicer Honda Ridgeline.
Hmm... After a little reading, it looks like the hurdle is the "chicken tax." Basically, there is a 25% import tax on German-built pickup trucks as a result of Germany imposing a 25% tax on imported chicken from the U.S. in the 1960s. Neither tax has ever been repealed, hence why VW make elect not to sell it here.
Quote from: TurboDan on March 30, 2010, 02:41:08 PM
Wow, how can they not be selling that in the U.S.? Does it sell well anywhere else?
Looks kinda like a nicer Honda Ridgeline.
Sales are just getting underway. The sales goal is 90,000 a year.
Quote from: TurboDan on March 30, 2010, 02:44:21 PM
Hmm... After a little reading, it looks like the hurdle is the "chicken tax." Basically, there is a 25% import tax on German-built pickup trucks as a result of Germany imposing a 25% tax on imported chicken from the U.S. in the 1960s. Neither tax has ever been repealed, hence why VW make elect not to sell it here.
Chickens are stupid. They should "build" them in Mexico.
The Amarok is build in South America not Germany
Quote from: AltinD on March 30, 2010, 04:01:02 PM
The Amarok is build in South America not Germany
Yeah. But it's a German company. So apparently that trade law is in effect anyway. Weird stuff, but such as the complexities of international trade. Our chickens versus Germany's pickup trucks... who knew.
Quote from: TurboDan on March 30, 2010, 05:00:53 PM
Yeah. But it's a German company. So apparently that trade law is in effect anyway. Weird stuff, but such as the complexities of international trade. Our chickens versus Germany's pickup trucks... who knew.
I don't believe that's the case. Such import tariffs are why companies will set up shop and build a vehicle in the market in which it's sold, making it no longer an imported vehicle.
Quote from: MX793 on March 30, 2010, 06:18:28 PM
I don't believe that's the case. Such import tariffs are why companies will set up shop and build a vehicle in the market in which it's sold, making it no longer an imported vehicle.
Well, I'm going by what all of the auto sites are saying. It seems pretty universal that the chicken tax is the reasoning behind why VW isn't bringing it here.
About the chicken tax: It was originally aimed at France and Germany but after lobbying by the Detroit three, and the UAW was later expanded to include all foreign trucks. The Japanese makers get around this by building the trucks in the US. The Mercedes Sprinter gets preassembled in Germany and then the blocks go through final assembly in the US. Ford does something interesting with the Transit. It gets shipped to the US with seats and windows classifing it as a passenger vehicle. After it goes throuh US customs the shipping company rips out the seats and covers up the back windows. VW will soon have a US factory that will allow them to bypass the chicken tax.
Note: NAFTA exceptions apply of course.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 30, 2010, 01:58:35 PM
If you're buying a sports car, you're most likely not buying it as your primary people mover.
:facepalm:
Your whole argument, from word one, is specious.