I hate them. They are a cop-out: the first resort of the incompetent traffic engineer, and the last resort of thinking beings. I think they cause more pollution, more frustration, more wear and tear on vehicles and waste more fossil fuel than just about anything else. I see countless examples of poorly set up lights which cause long backups on red while showing green to completely bloody empty intersecting roads.
If I were dictator I'd mandate roundabouts wherever possible.
end of rant
Roundabouts!? Go back to New Jersey, you limey bastard! See how well they work there.
Traffic lights mean you get to keep moving much of the time, when they're well-timed. I used to commute for several miles through Alexandria, Va., and I'd only hit one light each day out of dozens. You'd see reds turn green as you approach. It was great.
Roundabouts try to make things safe by just making everyone go slowly. There are a few okay applications for them, but I'm just fine with a light most of the time.
Quote from: ifcar on July 15, 2010, 07:21:06 AM
Traffic lights mean you get to keep moving much of the time, when they're well-timed. I used to commute for several miles through Alexandria, Va., and I'd only hit one light each day out of dozens. You'd see reds turn green as you approach. It was great.
Roundabouts try to make things safe by just making everyone go slowly. There are a few okay applications for them, but I'm just fine with a light most of the time.
There are a couple of lights that I hit daily that are just timed so poorly. One of them is a left turn light coming off a major highway exit. Opposing traffic gets a turn light and a full green, then your traffic gets a green, and then when the opposing traffic finally goes red, you get a green turn arrow--just long enough for maybe three cars to enter the intersection before turning yellow, fewer if the front person isn't paying attention. 80% of the time I use my horn is at that light, because I've been literally stuck there for 10 minutes before. Why they don't move to sensor lights (especially late at night), I have no idea. And why not have both green arrows go at once instead of giving the opposing an arrow and a full green?
Oh, and if you do get that green arrow, by some miracle, you have to race down the next 1.5 mile stretch or you're going to get another 3 minute red.
But yeah, overall, I'm cool with traffic lights.
Buenos Aires has "waves" of green lights, and there are even signs that say "Wave starts here". So you know which streets to take north/south as well as east/west to take advantage.
I agree that IF Americans knew how to drive, roundabouts could solve a lot of problems at lower-volume intersections,
BUT since most are TARDS it doesn't always work out.
(There was one in semi-rural Maryland that was way faster to get through than a light, but I had several near misses....)
Traffic lights...
at the top of freeway off/on ramps? Bad idea.
just a few yards apart, creating "traps" and causing backups for miles? Bad idea.
that turn red as you approach on deserted roads? Bad idea.
that hold you at red, while giving green to an empty left turn lane? Bad idea.
that hold you at red in a left turn lane when there is nothing coming the other way? Bad idea.
whose timing is altered to maximize red light camera revenue? Bad idea
And, what happens if you are T-boned by a drunk running a red at twice the speed limit? Did the traffic light help you? Did it slow him down?
I hate them.
I just blow through them on my bike
It would pay so much to set them up right... but cities would rather invest in ticket cameras :huh:
The other thing for stoplights: a roundabout doesn't do anything for pedestrians.
In my area a few stop lights have been replaced by roundabouts and it's been a smashing success. One light in particular on a freeway off-ramp forced a backup for a quarter mile or more onto the interstate. Problem is now gone with the roundabout. The point about a roundabout inherently slowing down grievous red light runners is a good one.
As we all know government is so poorly run and so corrupt public works projects have little to do with want or need. Plus even if municipal governments were run okay the cost to revamp intersections would be immense.
oh man, most of the stoplights are just miserable in my area. they're actually not that bad in traffic, but during rush hour, you'd swear they were timed for 80 mph traffic.
but I hadn't seen what bad is until I moved to my new apartment where the light for me to exit doesn't get triggered until someone uses the other street's crosswalk, and it eventually cycles to give me the green. most of the time I end up exiting another way. :rage:
Quote from: ifcar on July 15, 2010, 09:10:58 AM
The other thing for stoplights: a roundabout doesn't do anything for pedestrians.
Probably not a good solution where there is substantial foot traffic like in a major downtown metro area, but there are typically cross walks at roundabouts' entry exit points.
Pedestrians just need to learn to run in a circle and merge in with the cars the same way everyone in a car is expected to do. Those selfish pricks...
Pedestrians can cross the individual spokes of a roundabout very easily - there's only one direction of traffic to worry about, and drivers approaching the roundabout are naturally going to be more vigilant anyways.
Green lights are an excuse to turn the brain off, put the pedal to the floor and resume texting.
We're getting our first roundabout this summer. I refuse to go through it. I can only imagine the retards that are going to be driving in it trying to figure out WTF they're supposed to do. :facepalm:
I think I'm going to break in my El Camino by drifting around one of the local roundabouts.
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 15, 2010, 10:09:55 AM
We're getting our first roundabout this summer. I refuse to go through it. I can only imagine the retards that are going to be driving in it trying to figure out WTF they're supposed to do. :facepalm:
The nice thing about roundabouts is that stupid people just go through it slowly. Their potential for damage is pretty limited.
Quote from: Laconian on July 15, 2010, 10:45:43 AM
The nice thing about roundabouts is that stupid people just go through it slowly. Their potential for damage is pretty limited.
Quote from: Raza on July 15, 2010, 07:07:17 AM
Roundabouts!? Go back to New Jersey, you limey bastard! See how well they work there.
I have to admit that I had to Google how to drive a multi-lane roundabout (most of what I go through are multi-lane). IMO it's not intuitive.
But still, expecting people to figure it out on their own right away is a bit optimistic. People around here complained big-time in the beginning but after a time they more or less figured it out.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 15, 2010, 11:12:58 AM
I have to admit that I had to Google how to drive a multi-lane roundabout (most of what I go through are multi-lane). IMO it's not intuitive.
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense and they just just make them single lanes most of the time.
France had a huge televised advertisement blitz about roundabout etiquette when they switched en masse in the late 70's/early 80's. We need some o' that.
Try driving in Tokyo
When I go to the gym, it's all left turns. I hit every stinkin' one of the lights usually. Definitely hit the one right outside where I live, the first left turn, and if I hit it right when it turns red, I can be there a good three minutes waiting for green.
There are two lights between there and the next major intersection that are hit or miss for me. Some days, I never hit them, others I hit both.
The next left turn, it doesn't seem quite as bad, but it's at a major intersection. Once I get going on that, it's a 45 limit to the next light, which I usually hit.
Then the last light is the last left to get there. I always hit that one red, but I'm not there long either.
On the way back, all those left turns turn into right turns, and the commute seems to take half the time. But the one by my home is the absolute worst.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 15, 2010, 11:12:58 AM
I have to admit that I had to Google how to drive a multi-lane roundabout (most of what I go through are multi-lane). IMO it's not intuitive.
Doesn't it depend on where you're exiting? I.E., for a two lane roundabout, you stay in the right lane if you're exiting the first exit, left lane if you're exiting anywhere else?
Other problem with roundabouts is they take up a shitload of room. Dense metropolitan areas would need to have them planned from jump street. Even in Long Island it would be a tough conversion.
I'd say, as a purely unscientific rule of thumb, that over a week of commuting, each traffic light averages out to about a mile added to a journey.
Traffic Circles (this is the USA, not Europe) use more space and can handle less traffic. This is not good where several junctions come together or where space is at a premium (the city).
I like the roundabouts but the only one I've seen in the state was in Starkville near the MSU campus.
Quote from: 2o6 on July 15, 2010, 01:44:05 PM
Traffic Circles (this is the USA, not Europe) use more space and can handle less traffic. This is not good where several junctions come together or where space is at a premium (the city).
ACTUALLY
1- Traffic Circles and roundabouts are different, depending on whether incoming traffic yields or if traffic in the circle yield to incoming cars. I forget which is which, I just use them interchangeably.
2- Yes they take up more room than a light.
3- Traffic circles can push traffic through at a much higher rate than lights, especially if traffic is uneven, for instance coming from one direction more for a while, then another direction.
4- Larger traffic circles can handle traffic from 5 or 6 directions, much better than any mess of lights can. Just not for 3 or 4lane roads.
As noted above, two lanes can get pretty crazy. Anything more than that would just be crazy.
Here:
http://www.alaskaroundabouts.com/mythfact1.html
(http://www.alaskaroundabouts.com/mythfact.gif)
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 15, 2010, 10:14:52 AM
I think I'm going to break in my El Camino by drifting around one of the local roundabouts.
I did that this past winter in my MR2 after a snow storm. 3 times around sideways...so much fun!
Having driven in the UK, I am a big fan of roundabouts. They keep traffic flowing, unlike traffic lights which only stop the flow of traffic.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on July 15, 2010, 08:16:06 PM
I did that this past winter in my MR2 after a snow storm. 3 times around sideways...so much fun!
I approve. :rockon:
I remember when a traffic light was replaced by a roundabout in Port Orchard, WA, back in the mid '90s. within a week, a garbage truck had tipped over in it... ;)
Properly utilized, they are ok, but sometimes they can tend to get confusing..
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2009/10/8/1255013968723/Roundabout-001.jpg)
(http://cartophilia.com/blog/images2009/swindonmagicroundabout.jpg)
I bet the bottom one feels like a video game.
I've come to both love and hate traffic lights that use pressure switches to determine when to change. They're great in that they eliminate instances where a light will turn green on a lower traffic street when there are no cars waiting in the intersection. Not so great when you're on a motorcycle that doesn't weigh enough to trip the switch and you happen to be on one of those lower traffic side roads where the light only turns green when there is pressure on the trigger switch.
Quote from: MX793 on July 16, 2010, 12:41:29 PM
I've come to both love and hate traffic lights that use pressure switches to determine when to change. They're great in that they eliminate instances where a light will turn green on a lower traffic street when there are no cars waiting in the intersection. Not so great when you're on a motorcycle that doesn't weigh enough to trip the switch and you happen to be on one of those lower traffic side roads where the light only turns green when there is pressure on the trigger switch.
Try doing that on a bicycle. :rage:
I end up running the red light after a while. Too bad you can't do that on a motorcycle.
Quote from: thecarnut on July 16, 2010, 01:16:48 PM
Try doing that on a bicycle. :rage:
I end up running the red light after a while. Too bad you can't do that on a motorcycle.
Sure you can. Here, if the light doesn't change after a number of cycles (or a period of time), you can assume it's not functioning and legally run it when traffic is clear.
Quote from: MX793 on July 16, 2010, 12:41:29 PM
I've come to both love and hate traffic lights that use pressure switches to determine when to change. They're great in that they eliminate instances where a light will turn green on a lower traffic street when there are no cars waiting in the intersection. Not so great when you're on a motorcycle that doesn't weigh enough to trip the switch and you happen to be on one of those lower traffic side roads where the light only turns green when there is pressure on the trigger switch.
I thought that those sensors were magnetic, so that they could get triggered by motorcycles.
I think they work by EM inductance, so any closed metal loop will work.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 16, 2010, 01:59:52 PM
I thought that those sensors were magnetic, so that they could get triggered by motorcycles.
Apparently a motorcycle doesn't have enough metal to trigger them, or a number of the triggered lights around here aren't inductance based because maybe 2 weeks ago I sat at a light for 5 cycles before I just said "screw it" and drove through. While that light is often a long one even when sitting with a car, I've never waited that long with a car for the light to change green. I've had others who ride bikes with similar complaints.
Speaking of inductance. Want an easy way to fool a car sensor? Let's say, for some hypothetical reason, you might want to drive out the entrance of an unmanned parking garage. Simply connect a powerstrip to itself, throw it over the sensing wire loop, and press the "get ticket" button. Voila, the gate goes up!
Quote from: thecarnut on July 16, 2010, 01:16:48 PM
Try doing that on a bicycle. :rage:
I end up running the red light after a while. Too bad you can't do that on a motorcycle.
I ride my bike through a light with sensors quite often and have tripped it by myself at least once I think. It could possibly change lights without the sensor, though.
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 16, 2010, 03:42:50 PM
I ride my bike through a light with sensors quite often and have tripped it by myself at least once I think. It could possibly change lights without the sensor, though.
The one that goes into my old high school doesn't change when I'm on it. I've just started to run it when there's a break in traffic.
Roundabouts are fantastic - it's like having a rally special stage in every suburb!
Quote from: GoCougs on July 15, 2010, 11:12:58 AM
I have to admit that I had to Google how to drive a multi-lane roundabout (most of what I go through are multi-lane). IMO it's not intuitive.
Left from the left lane, right from the right lane, and straight ahead from both lanes?
Around here, there are only one-lane roundabouts. When I was in Illinois, I had to negotiate and three-lane roundabout. With a town local in the passenger seat, I got into the roundabout and he told me to get to the inside. My exit was the very next one, but I ended up going around the damn thing because I was supposed to "let traffic in". Evidently, it was the law/rule. It made no sense and seemed like a waste of time and gas. One-lane roundabouts make sense. Two or more? I guess I'd have to drive it everyday to figure out the logic of getting to the inside lane so I can move back over to exit just a few seconds later.
To turn right he made you go in the left lane, let in other cars, and change lanes in the middle of the roundabout? That defies almost every logical convention of roundabout-ing.
What traffic were you letting in if there weren't any exits between your entrance and exit? Was there a one-way entrance in the middle?
Stop signs are mostly stupid too.
Gary Lauder's new traffic sign: Take Turns
http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_lauder_s_new_traffic_sign_take_turns.html
(4 1/2 min)
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 29, 2010, 02:40:01 PM
Stop signs are mostly stupid too.
Gary Lauder's new traffic sign: Take Turns
http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_lauder_s_new_traffic_sign_take_turns.html
(4 1/2 min)
Genius friggin idea.
Too complicated for 'Murricans though.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 29, 2010, 03:43:14 PM
Genius friggin idea.
Too complicated for 'Murricans though.
It's not too complicated for Americans, it's too fucking stupid to work. A yield sign
should act the exact same way as a stop sign. Adding a new sign is going to result in one blue hair waiting at the sign for an hour waiting for it to turn green.
Quote from: Raza on July 29, 2010, 06:26:34 PM
It's not too complicated for Americans, it's too fucking stupid to work. A yield sign should act the exact same way as a stop sign. Adding a new sign is going to result in one blue hair waiting at the sign for an hour waiting for it to turn green.
If people were halfway smart, they would just drive through that new sign, barely slowing.
UNLESS there is someone waiting there. Then it becomes a 3-way stop.
Point was that if there's a yield sign, people on the "main" road keep going all day long and the sidestreet waits and waits and waits. I can see CERTAIN FEW situations in which the new sign would work great.
I hate rotaries with a passion. It feels like I'm going to get in a fender bender every time I'm in one. There is no stress involved in a traffic light. A rotary on a busy street just means a ton of close call merges, and the way people drive in Boston, I thank the lord everytime I emerge at the other side of the rotary unscathed.
Quote from: 565 on July 31, 2010, 10:20:28 AM
There is no stress involved in a traffic light.
Until you get hit my some tard going through when it's not their green light..
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 31, 2010, 10:21:55 AM
Until you get hit my some tard going through when it's not their green light..
Yes but that's a rare occurance. The rotary is a stressful experience every single time in Boston, to the point that I purposely avoid them whenever possible.
Quote from: 565 on July 31, 2010, 10:42:09 AM
Yes but that's a rare occurance. The rotary is a stressful experience every single time in Boston, to the point that I purposely avoid them whenever possible.
Great- makes traffic for the rest of us better. :lol:
I'm sure you have a bunch of obnoxious people who are trying to squeeze in when they shouldn't. They work very well in more rural settings, or where the drivers aren't all **** ***** ****.
Yup - they should ditch rotaries. Roundabouts make much more sense.
Quote from: Morris Minor on August 02, 2010, 08:16:47 AM
Ypu - they should ditch rotaries. Roundabouts make much more sense.
(http://www.mazdapedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/mazda-rx8-exterior.jpg)
:(
Quote from: omicron on August 02, 2010, 09:57:14 AM
(http://www.mazdapedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/mazda-rx8-exterior.jpg)
:(
What, don't you think an RX-8 would be better with a roundabout engine?
You know what's horrible? Traffic. That's what's horrible. Something needs to be done to get rid of traffic. Without traffic, we wouldn't even have traffic lights, or stop signs, or even yield signs.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on August 02, 2010, 05:59:20 PM
You know what's horrible? Traffic. That's what's horrible. Something needs to be done to get rid of traffic. Without traffic, we wouldn't even have traffic lights, or stop signs, or even yield signs.
Reminded me of how Denis Leary would've said it back in the day.
(http://artoftalk.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/denis-leary-old-school1.jpg)