Mazda Halts Production of Rotary Engine Sports Car
The RX-8, shown (Automotive News Website), and the RX-7 that preceded it are largely responsible for Mazda's fun-to-drive reputation.
BY: Ryan Beene
Automotive News -- August 22, 2011 - 12:01 am ET
Mazda Motor Corp. has canceled production of its RX-8 rotary engine sports car, citing falling sales and stringent global emissions standards.
Production in Hiroshima, Japan, ended in early July and global sales of the car will conclude later this year.
The RX-8 and the three generations of the RX-7 that preceded it have long been the foundation the brand's fun-to-drive aura. The car's high-revving 1.3-liter, twin-rotor rotary engine produces 232 hp at 8,500 rpm -- a big punch in a relatively small package.
But Mazda sold just 1,134 RX-8s last year, a 49 percent decline from 2009. Sales through July of 2011 were down another 21 percent.
The RX-8, which has a base price of $27,590, including shipping, peaked at 23,690 sales in 2004. But the first-generation RX-7 surpassed 50,000 units throughout the early 1980s.
Mazda's U.S. dealers had 300 units in stock as of Aug. 1 for a 118-day supply, according to the Automotive News Data Center.
Mazda pulled the RX-8 from the European market last year after the car failed to meet local emissions standards. Without volume from Europe, Mazda couldn't justify selling the RX-8, a Mazda source said.
Exporting vehicles from Japan also has become more difficult. The yen's rise vs. the dollar was a major reason why Mazda's North American operating losses from April through June grew nearly threefold to ?7.9 billion, or about $97.6 million, from the same quarter last year.
This isn't the first time that Mazda has dropped its rotary engine sports car from the U.S. lineup. The RX-7 was pulled after the 1995 model year. A rotary-powered car didn't return to American showrooms until the 2003 introduction of the RX-8.
And the RX-8's demise may not be the end of the rotary engine at Mazda. A source says engineers in Hiroshima are still working on the next generation, 1.6-liter rotary engine, code-named 16X, that is said to have lower emissions, better fuel economy and more power.
When unveiled at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show, the 16X had an enlarged elliptical shape for the combustion chamber and an enlarged eccentric center stroke in the rotor. Mazda also planned direct-injection fuel delivery in a rotary engine for the first time.
But the 16X project has been on the back burner since the financial crisis. The company chose to focus its r&d resources on its fuel-saving SkyActiv technologies that debut later this year.
Still, Jim O'Sullivan, CEO of Mazda North American Operations, said "the rotary is alive and well within Mazda." While declining to comment on the progress of the 16X, O'Sullivan said: "We are studying what's the best way to come back to the market with the rotary."
Well this was going to be the last year of it anyway. With high gas prices and the fact that the car has been here from 2004 without any real changes don't help sales all that much. It's time for her to go and I hope they can bring another one back one day. You never know.
Good car, they just need to fix the engine for modern times.
Yeah, they should put that turbo motor from the old Mazdaspeed6 in it and call it the NRNX-8 (not rotary, not experimental).
If Mazda keeps losing money, I could see them cancelling the rotary, which would be a damn shame.
Mazda is one of the few automakers that dares color outside the lines with regards to engines and vehicles, which is wonderful for the enthusiast. Hopefully, they don't do a mid- to late-1990s redux, where they tried to compete by emulating Toyota, instead of doing something distinct.
I think it all depends on the SKY motors. If they turn out being what Mazda claims and do well I could see Mazda doing well. And then they can work on the 16X more. Mazda has made some big claims on the 16X already. They say it gets the MPG of the last mazda3 already. But they can't get the emissions down.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on August 22, 2011, 07:42:13 AM
If Mazda keeps losing money, I could see them cancelling the rotary, which would be a damn shame.
Mazda is one of the few automakers that dares color outside the lines with regards to engines and vehicles, which is wonderful for the enthusiast. Hopefully, they don't do a mid- to late-1990s redux, where they tried to compete by emulating Toyota, instead of doing something distinct.
Yeah, it's a shame, in a way. But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters. What did you have with a rotary? An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey. Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine. It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars.
Quote from: Raza on August 22, 2011, 08:20:58 AM
Yeah, it's a shame, in a way. But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters. What did you have with a rotary? An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey. Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine. It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars.
Again, the funneling of engine choices down to nothing but low emission turbocharged piston engines in everything from econoboxes to Paganis doesn't really jive with everybody. Just cause it works for you doesn't mean it should be so.
I agree that rotaries have a long way to go efficiency wise before they can really stand on their own. But I don't think the solution is to just give up and go w/the Razamotor.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on August 22, 2011, 08:59:05 AM
Again, the funneling of engine choices down to nothing but low emission turbocharged piston engines in everything from econoboxes to Paganis doesn't really jive with everybody. Just cause it works for you doesn't mean it should be so.
I agree that rotaries have a long way to go efficiency wise before they can really stand on their own. But I don't think the solution is to just give up and go w/the Razamotor.
Yeah, it's nice to have novelties around, but in the end, they don't really matter. A modern V6 is nearly as smooth as the old I6s from BMW and physically much smaller. I see no advantage to sticking with inline engines. Or rotary engines, for that matter. Like I said, nice to have, but it really doesn't matter.
Quote from: Raza on August 22, 2011, 08:20:58 AM
Yeah, it's a shame, in a way. But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters. What did you have with a rotary? An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey. Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine. It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars.
From a business and pragmatic standpoint, I agree with you 100%. It's mostly an emotional thing - it is probably the last custom designed engine that will be put in a car with a price of under $40k.
In a world where car design appears to be becoming more formulaic (corporate engine, chassis shared with high-volume models) the RX-8 and rotary were distinct outliers. I'd be shocked if Mazda made any money from it and understand that it runs the polar opposite to any business case for a car, but novelties are fun. Even more fun if I can hope to afford the novelty one day.
Quote from: Raza on August 22, 2011, 08:20:58 AM
Yeah, it's a shame, in a way. But like the death of BMW's inline 6, I can't understand why it really matters. What did you have with a rotary? An engine that's maintenance heavy, fuel drinking, oil consuming, not that powerful, and not that torquey. Its main advantages were that it's light, compact, and powerful for its size comparable to a traditional engine. It's a novelty, like Andre the Giant ice cream bars.
The lightness was a fundamental part of the RX-8's balance and handling, no? Drop another engine in there and it's not the same car.
Quote from: Raza on August 22, 2011, 09:19:03 AM
Yeah, it's nice to have novelties around, but in the end, they don't really matter. A modern V6 is nearly as smooth as the old I6s from BMW and physically much smaller. I see no advantage to sticking with inline engines. Or rotary engines, for that matter. Like I said, nice to have, but it really doesn't matter.
Oh don't worry, in time you won't even have to worry about V6s either. You fill an inline 4's motor mounts with jelly & cover the engine block in sound dampener, slap on a turbocharger, it'll feel just like a V6, and make little to no noise. Then you'll be able to choose the engine sound you want, etc. The future looks bright.
It does matter. Your line of thinking is what is pushing engines into a direction of depressing emissions driven homogeneity. I agree that the rotary needs a lot of work, but not everyone wants a turbo 4 banger.
Not surprising at all...
Yeesh, the two smoothest engine designs (rotary and I6) both pretty much dies in the same year... Bad year for the auto biz
Quote from: sportyaccordy on August 22, 2011, 09:37:56 AM
Oh don't worry, in time you won't even have to worry about V6s either. You fill an inline 4's motor mounts with jelly & cover the engine block in sound dampener, slap on a turbocharger, it'll feel just like a V6, and make little to no noise. Then you'll be able to choose the engine sound you want, etc. The future looks bright.
It does matter. Your line of thinking is what is pushing engines into a direction of depressing emissions driven homogeneity. I agree that the rotary needs a lot of work, but not everyone wants a turbo 4 banger.
The upcoming draconian CAFE regulations is no doubt the real reason for the "ecoboost" trend.
Quote from: SVT32V on August 22, 2011, 09:57:11 AM
The upcoming draconian CAFE regulations is no doubt the real reason for the "ecoboost" trend.
I know that. You know that. I don't know that a lot of people know that. People hear "turbo" and assume it's always for the better.
Quote from: ifcar on August 22, 2011, 09:34:33 AM
The lightness was a fundamental part of the RX-8's balance and handling, no? Drop another engine in there and it's not the same car.
True enough. But it was fundamental to the RX-7 as well, and we know how that ended.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on August 22, 2011, 09:37:56 AM
Oh don't worry, in time you won't even have to worry about V6s either. You fill an inline 4's motor mounts with jelly & cover the engine block in sound dampener, slap on a turbocharger, it'll feel just like a V6, and make little to no noise. Then you'll be able to choose the engine sound you want, etc. The future looks bright.
It does matter. Your line of thinking is what is pushing engines into a direction of depressing emissions driven homogeneity. I agree that the rotary needs a lot of work, but not everyone wants a turbo 4 banger.
You sound like one of those doomsday mongers. Don't worry, the world will end in 2012, long before V6s are phased out.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=25514.msg1568248#msg1568248 date=1314030488
True enough. But it was fundamental to the RX-7 as well, and we know how that ended.
Well the RX-7 died here because it cost too much. The FB and fC sold well. I think if Mazda had put the 8 motor in a car more like the 7 then it would have done better.
Quote from: Raza on August 22, 2011, 10:29:35 AM
You sound like one of those doomsday mongers. Don't worry, the world will end in 2012, long before V6s are phased out.
V6s aren't much to write home about...
Quote from: Raza on August 22, 2011, 07:35:41 AM
Yeah, they should put that turbo motor from the old Mazdaspeed6 in it and call it the NRNX-8 (not rotary, not experimental).
MX-8
Everyone says they should put that 4 banger turbo motor in them. Why? So it can have heat soak problems? It can sound like crap? So it won't as smooth as a V6 or rotary?
No thanks.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on August 22, 2011, 07:42:13 AM
If Mazda keeps losing money, I could see them cancelling the rotary, which would be a damn shame.
Mazda is one of the few automakers that dares color outside the lines with regards to engines and vehicles, which is wonderful for the enthusiast. Hopefully, they don't do a mid- to late-1990s redux, where they tried to compete by emulating Toyota, instead of doing something distinct.
i seriously thought those rumors of a new "mazda rx-7" were a reality :huh:
It'll be back, as long as mazda is in business there will be someone within the company looking to carry on the RX line.
I don't know if most people know this or not, but Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore if it wasn't for the Rotary. It's one of the reasons they keep trying so hard.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 22, 2011, 08:10:33 PM
I don't know if most people know this or not, but Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore if it wasn't for the Rotary. It's one of the reasons they keep trying so hard.
I'm sure the 5 RX-8s they sold a year really kept them afloat.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=25514.msg1568643#msg1568643 date=1314068041
I'm sure the 5 RX-8s they sold a year really kept them afloat.
I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about a long time ago. I've got a book about it but don't have time to go into it all this late. Basically Japan was forcing some corporations to merge with others. And Mazda used the rotary as a way to get out of it. I'll post more about it later.
But the short story is without the rotary Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 22, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
Everyone says they should put that 4 banger turbo motor in them. Why? So it can have heat soak problems? It can sound like crap? So it won't as smooth as a V6 or rotary?
No thanks.
Actually I think Mazda's Turbo 2.3 sounds really good. But it doesn't fit the RX's character.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 22, 2011, 10:09:12 PM
I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about a long time ago. I've got a book about it but don't have time to go into it all this late. Basically Japan was forcing some corporations to merge with others. And Mazda used the rotary as a way to get out of it. I'll post more about it later.
But the short story is without the rotary Mazda wouldn't even be here anymore.
Oh, that's pretty cool then.
do any of you think mazda may be looking to go into partnership with another manufacturer now that ties have been severed with FMC? the possibilities are fun to speculate.
Rumours are flying for Mazda and Audi to hook up on rotary engine development
If used RX-8's stay so cheap I'm going to pick another one up and turn it into a track day car in a few years. I was going to do that with an FC RX-7 Turbo but will go with the 8 now.
I test drove an RX8 five years ago and fell in love with the super smooth whir of its rotary. Despite its shortcomings, I'm still really drawn to the car. Maybe one day...
Quote from: Onslaught on August 23, 2011, 08:00:17 PM
If used RX-8's stay so cheap I'm going to pick another one up and turn it into a track day car in a few years. I was going to do that with an FC RX-7 Turbo but will go with the 8 now.
Prices being somewhat equal, you would choose the 8 over a 7?
Quote from: Speed_Racer on August 23, 2011, 10:08:31 PM
I test drove an RX8 five years ago and fell in love with the super smooth whir of its rotary. Despite its shortcomings, I'm still really drawn to the car. Maybe one day...
Oh, it's an awesome car. Definitely one you buy with your heart and not your head though.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on August 24, 2011, 07:35:21 AM
Prices being somewhat equal, you would choose the 8 over a 7?
A FC RX-7? Yes
Why? Well the 8 has a chassis better then any 7 made. That's including the FD too. It's not near as old so it probably wouldn't have as much worn out shit on it. You could still get all the parts from Mazda or even used without problems. You can still get many parts for 7's but some are a pain.
The only thing the FC would have over the 8 is weight and the motor takes to power modifications better.
I wouldn't buy a FC unless it was in real great shape. And if it was I know I'd never track the thing because I'd start loving it. I already have an 8 so if I got another one I wouldn't care as much about it.
amazing how successful the miata has been for mazda. hopefully, there will not be any hardship for mazda. mazda and nissan are great alternatives to a really decent honda, toyota and even as the hyundai and kia brands gain traction, such cars as the sonata, elantra and optima.
The NC hasn't been that successful. I like them but sales have been bad. It could be the next death at Mazda.
Ok, I've been drinking tonight so forgive if any of this is fucked up.
Back to the rotary saving Mazda thing I said a few days ago. I've got a good book on the RX-7 called " Sports Car Color History Mazda RX-7." And in this book it tells of every RX-7 ever made and the story behind them. But it also tells of the development of the rotary and how both Mazda and other manufactures worked with it.
Back in the day Mazda was actually called " Toyo Kogyo" and had made cars and bikes in Japan from the 1960's. But Japan's Ministry of International Trade and Industry was merging many of the small car manufactures out of existence to consolidate the country's automotive industry not long after that. Why I don't know.
So Mazda's President at the time, Tsuneji Matsuda came up with the idea of having a "technological character" to set it apart from the other manufactures and went after the rotary. By having this tech character they could use it as a reason to keep from being merged with some of the other big manufactures. So he gave Kenichi Yamamoto the job
of making the rotary work. After all kinds of work he finally pulled it off and came up with a working motor for Mazda to use in the Cosmo. And in the end it all paid off and Mazda was allowed to stay out on it's own rather than being merged with Honda or Toyota.
So you see the rotary wasn't just something different to the people at Mazda, it was what kept the company together. Perhaps it wasn't logical to keep trying for so long with it. But some of the best things have nothing to do with logic.
Not dead just yet.
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/1167
A "limited" run of a thousand.... That's a full year supply in US volumes -sigh-
It needed more power and better gas mileage. I was talking to Shinka Girl, and her only complaint is gas mileage. We did duke it out on the highway too, and she couldn't beat me on a straight run.
I could do with more power. As for the MPG, I really don't give a shit. If they gave me more power with the same MPG then I'd be happy with that.
Quote from: Onslaught on August 25, 2011, 07:49:44 PM
So you see the rotary wasn't just something different to the people at Mazda, it was what kept the company together. Perhaps it wasn't logical to keep trying for so long with it. But some of the best things have nothing to do with logic.
It's ironic how the rotary engine contributed to keeping Mazda together, yet was responsible for the demise of NSU (among others). :lol:
Quote from: Onslaught on August 23, 2011, 08:00:17 PM
If used RX-8's stay so cheap I'm going to pick another one up and turn it into a track day car in a few years. I was going to do that with an FC RX-7 Turbo but will go with the 8 now.
LS SWAAAAAAAAP
Or GEN V SWAAAAAAAAAAP
I don't care that other people put stuff in their RX cars. But the only motor I'd have in one is a rotary. Now a 20b in the 8 could work for me.
Quote from: r0tor on October 07, 2011, 06:22:01 AM
A "limited" run of a thousand.... That's a full year supply in US volumes -sigh-
If they brought it over here, there's a good chance I'd go for it.
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/10/mazda-pr-tweets-that-company-is-working.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Carscoop+%28CARSCOOP%29
The seat look really nice... I'd like them
I like the seats in the last RX-8 they showed a picture of. Just like mine but with more red.
I really hope they make another rotary car. After having this one now I'm not sure I could
go back to a "normal" car.
You know, it's a shame; I really like the RX-8. It's a blast to drive, it looks great (apart from the slightly awkward side view), it's practical, and the interior is even decently put together. It's an oddity, which is nice as well. But it's easy to see why it's dead. I'd love to own one, but it's not great as a daily driver (due to the gas mileage, and I did go toe to toe with one on the highway the other day and I clearly had the legs on it while easily surpassing the fuel mileage. Obviously it's sharper in the corners, but still) and I wouldn't get a four door four seater as a second car.
That's not saying that I would pass on one at a great price just because of the gas. Josh, as your ownership experience deepens, you'll have to let us know about the issues that creep up.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=25514.msg1595537#msg1595537 date=1318385488
You know, it's a shame; I really like the RX-8. It's a blast to drive, it looks great (apart from the slightly awkward side view), it's practical, and the interior is even decently put together. It's an oddity, which is nice as well. But it's easy to see why it's dead. I'd love to own one, but it's not great as a daily driver (due to the gas mileage, and I did go toe to toe with one on the highway the other day and I clearly had the legs on it while easily surpassing the fuel mileage. Obviously it's sharper in the corners, but still) and I wouldn't get a four door four seater as a second car.
That's not saying that I would pass on one at a great price just because of the gas. Josh, as your ownership experience deepens, you'll have to let us know about the issues that creep up.
I like everything about the RX-8 except the power and fuel economy.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 11, 2011, 08:15:30 PM
I like everything about the RX-8 except the power and fuel economy.
The power isn't even that big of an issue for me; it's just that it was so much less than its competitors (like the 350Z) that it made it seem slow when it was quick enough--low 6s to 60 is plenty fast enough for most people. Although, I did just do the math, and the cost of an RX-8 over my car in fuel would likely be $800 a year. They both use premium fuel, but as I recall, the RX-8 takes dino oil, which would mitigate some of the fuel costs, to the tune of roughly $200 a year.
Oh, I will and I'll be honest about it too. Almost two years into owning the car and I've had the original battery replaced. I could tell it was kind of weak when I first got the car. Probably because it was sitting out on the lot for so long.
And when I was hurt the car wasn't used much for 3 months and it was dead when I went to drive it again.
One thing I've noticed is that the old RX-8's are kind of known to rattle. But my car is as quiet as the day I got it. I don't know if they worked on the problem or if it's because the chassis is supposed to be improved.
And as with every other Mazda I've had it's getting rock chips on the front bumper. I do drive on a really bad road going to work that's full of dump trucks full of rocks. But it still makes me mad.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=25514.msg1595540#msg1595540 date=1318386092
The power isn't even that big of an issue for me; it's just that it was so much less than its competitors (like the 350Z) that it made it seem slow when it was quick enough--low 6s to 60 is plenty fast enough for most people. Although, I did just do the math, and the cost of an RX-8 over my car in fuel would likely be $800 a year. They both use premium fuel, but as I recall, the RX-8 takes dino oil, which would mitigate some of the fuel costs.
Yes, it takes dino oil. And an oil change in my 8 cost less then in my MX-5. But my MX-5 runs on regular.
It should be noted that the owners book says you can run regular in the 8. But I never do it.
Mazda said the new rotary will use sky shit.
Another beef I had with the RX-8 was the lack of fold down rear seats. Same problem I had with the GTO... if I'm getting a car big enough to carry 4 people in relative comfort it better have folding rear seats so I can carry shit too.
Like Raza said, it's pretty pointless to have a 4 door 4 seater as a second fun car.
Pop that rotary in a Miata.
Has anyone ever heard of someone putting the RX-8 rotary into an NB1 Miata?
Quote from: HotRodPilot on October 12, 2011, 09:26:15 AM
Another beef I had with the RX-8 was the lack of fold down rear seats. Same problem I had with the GTO... if I'm getting a car big enough to carry 4 people in relative comfort it better have folding rear seats so I can carry shit too.
Like Raza said, it's pretty pointless to have a 4 door 4 seater as a second fun car.
Pop that rotary in a Miata.
Has anyone ever heard of someone putting the RX-8 rotary into an NB1 Miata?
I'm sure it exists. But an F20C makes more sense. Same power, same 9000rpm redline, but better MPG.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 11, 2011, 08:23:38 PM
Yes, it takes dino oil. And an oil change in my 8 cost less then in my MX-5. But my MX-5 runs on regular.
It should be noted that the owners book says you can run regular in the 8. But I never do it.
I used to run regular in my Rx8, it ran just as well as premium and I noticed slightly better mileage. But could easily be due to the batch of gas.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 12, 2011, 09:30:14 AM
I'm sure it exists. But an F20C makes more sense. Same power, same 9000rpm redline, but better MPG.
You know what makes even more sense than that? Just buying an S2000.
Quote from: Vinsanity on October 12, 2011, 11:57:29 AM
You know what makes even more sense than that? Just buying an S2000.
:clap:
My new engine is getting like 21 mpg in mixed driving... Must be the rocket boosters I installed
Quote from: r0tor on October 12, 2011, 12:40:58 PM
My new engine is getting like 21 mpg in mixed driving... Must be the rocket boosters I installed
So what actually happened to your old engiine? I wonder if I had kept my Rx8, would I have needed a new engine as well..
Quote from: HotRodPilot on October 12, 2011, 09:26:15 AM
Has anyone ever heard of someone putting the RX-8 rotary into an NB1 Miata?
I've never seen a renesis in a NA or NB. I've seen them in a NC and it's "easy" to do from what I've seen.
But I wouldn't put a Renesis in a NA. I'd put the regular 13B from the RX-7's in it. It's easy to get power
out of them. Not that you'd need that much power in a Miata anyway.
It's still possible that I make a rotary miata one of these days for fun.
Quote from: NomisR on October 12, 2011, 04:28:09 PM
So what actually happened to your old engiine? I wonder if I had kept my Rx8, would I have needed a new engine as well..
It was only pushing like 60 psi of engine compression... Was replaced for free by Mazda
LOL My subie gets that, and I have to push the pedal down a lot to just get moving..
You know whenever something is wrong with a rotary engine at the dealer they just say "get a new one!" I understand if it's still in warranty then it's the easy way out. But it's older then they don't even try.
Many of them just need new seals.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 13, 2011, 04:02:00 PM
You know whenever something is wrong with a rotary engine at the dealer they just say "get a new one!" I understand if it's still in warranty then it's the easy way out. But it's older then they don't even try.
Many of them just need new seals.
I have a feeling that most mechanics, even those in a Mazda delership, don't know a lot about them and don't want to.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 13, 2011, 04:04:35 PM
I have a feeling that most mechanics, even those in a Mazda delership, don't know a lot about them and don't want to.
That's it! Or the ones now don't know much about them and don't want to. When I first started they had a few guys who knew about them because Mazda sold so many RX-7's in the 80's.
But the kids working there now have no idea how to do anything with them. That's why I'm going to learn so I can keep my 8 and future 7 going.
Quote from: Vinsanity on October 12, 2011, 11:57:29 AM
You know what makes even more sense than that? Just buying an S2000.
Sure if you've got at least $12K sitting around.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 13, 2011, 04:02:00 PM
You know whenever something is wrong with a rotary engine at the dealer they just say "get a new one!" I understand if it's still in warranty then it's the easy way out. But it's older then they don't even try.
Many of them just need new seals.
Yeah, but replacing new seals isn't really as easy as replacing a spark plug.
Quote from: NomisR on October 13, 2011, 04:38:43 PM
Yeah, but replacing new seals isn't really as easy as replacing a spark plug.
It's not any worse then doing a normal engine rebuild. I'd think it even be a little better.
Quote from: Onslaught on October 13, 2011, 04:47:33 PM
It's not any worse then doing a normal engine rebuild. I'd think it even be a little better.
Yeah, I'd say it's easier than doing a normal engine rebuild. But most mechanics at the dealers say "new engine" probably because, a. they're not familiar with rotaries and b. mazda's footing the bill.
Actually Mazda will not let the dealers crack open the engines... They all get yanked and sent to the reman plant after a bajillion tests are done to assure its dead.
Quote from: r0tor on October 13, 2011, 07:46:09 PM
Actually Mazda will not let the dealers crack open the engines... They all get yanked and sent to the reman plant after a bajillion tests are done to assure its dead.
Yea, that's the RX-8. I was talking more about the RX-7's that still come in.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 13, 2011, 04:34:51 PM
Sure if you've got at least $12K sitting around.
Buying a Miata + F20C + getting it swapped in would cost at least that much. And then you have to upgrade the rest of the car to handle the engine. Project cars are fun but never cost effective, unless you own a junkyard + shop
Early S2000s are around 9K now anyway, as long as you're willing to take a high mileage example.