About to put the front struts of my car on the end of this week.
I've been driving it around with new rear springs/shocks for about a week now. Steering wheel vibrations are much more then they should be. Is there any way to diagnose this? I think it's tie rod ends; I mean the car does have close to 150K. The tires up front are crappy (no bubbles in the sidewall this time) but the wheel vibrations above 55MPH are too great.
Also, the car has a tendency to pull, but I'm chalking it up to crappy tires. (It didn't pull before I got these tires, and the tread life between the front ones are noticeably different)
New tie rods or tie rod ends? I know I'm going to have to get it fixed before it gets aligned.
Wheels out of balance.
If the tie rods were worn you'd hear them.
Sounds like something seriously out of balance/alignment. Has the car ever been in an accident?
Quote from: Rupert on October 17, 2011, 12:01:12 AM
Wheels out of balance.
Could they really have screwed up the balance? It seems like I just have terrible dealings with every automotive technician I go to.
Tie rods are easy to check. Jack the car up, wiggle. Put some weight back on the wheel (or better yet just lift the car via the lower control arm under the spring mount) and wiggle. You might have bent wheel(s) too.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 17, 2011, 03:48:11 PM
Could they really have screwed up the balance? It seems like I just have terrible dealings with every automotive technician I go to.
They? Wheels go out of balance all the time. You have to rebalance them whenever you put a tire (new or the same old one) on the wheel. Alignment issues don't show up as vibration, I don't think. Tie rods, I dunno about. Other suspension issues are anyone's guess. But it's 80% chance it's just the wheels being out of balance.
Alignment issues can cause major tire wear and a wonky steering wheel, but not vibration. Worn tie rods will cause an alignment issue, but not vibration. Out-of-balance wheels/tires, and/or bent wheels will cause a vibration. Some tires will also balance out normally but still vibrate because of a defect with the belts or construction; sometimes tires vibrate indefinitely after taking a major hit and will need to be replaced.
So it's these craptastic used tires I bought.
Thanks, guys!
Yep, sorry man.
Quote from: R-inge on October 17, 2011, 07:24:06 PM
Alignment issues can cause major tire wear and a wonky steering wheel, but not vibration. Worn tie rods will cause an alignment issue, but not vibration. Out-of-balance wheels/tires, and/or bent wheels will cause a vibration. Some tires will also balance out normally but still vibrate because of a defect with the belts or construction; sometimes tires vibrate indefinitely after taking a major hit and will need to be replaced.
Besides shifted belts, it's possible for a tire to be statically balanced but not dynamically balanced. If the tire shop only had a static balancer, they may appear balanced on the machine but in fact be dynamically out of balance.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 17, 2011, 07:33:39 PM
So it's these craptastic used tires I bought.
Thanks, guys!
Well, kind of. It's the out-of-balance property of those tires on those wheels. Costs $30 at Big-O to have all four wheels spin balanced.
Quote from: MX793 on October 17, 2011, 07:42:53 PM
Besides shifted belts, it's possible for a tire to be statically balanced but not dynamically balanced. If the tire shop only had a static balancer, they may appear balanced on the machine but in fact be dynamically out of balance.
True, thank you for that.
Checked over my front tires today. I just noticed one of my rims are bent.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 21, 2011, 12:26:03 PM
Checked over my front tires today. I just noticed one of my rims are bent.
Called it
What are the symptoms of bad bearings or tie rod ends?
You replaced the rims and tires and the problem is still the same?
Quote from: 2o6 on October 31, 2011, 12:37:56 PM
What are the symptoms of bad bearings or tie rod ends?
Bearings usually make a loud grumbling sound. If they're really shot, you'll be able to wiggle the wheel a little bit on the hub if you jack up a wheel.
Loose tie rods generally make the steering kind of sloppy and the car will want to wander (won't track straight).
Well, I got the front of the SVT kit on, and I will need an alignment. I'm guessing the shop will tell me if bearings and tie rods are bad?
If you ask them, probably. What's the symptom?
Getting some odd noises from the front end, and it has a tendency to bump steer and seek the ditch.
Maybe I should stop jumping to conclusions; I mean I did take off the front struts.
It's odd; I'll get pretty much no vibrations at 25MPH, a whole lot of vibrations at 40MPH, then at 50-60MPH they're gone, and at 75MPH they're back again. Let me get these new rims and see if it fixes the problem.
Yeah, that's a good call.
Quote from: 2o6 on October 31, 2011, 08:51:05 PM
Getting some odd noises from the front end, and it has a tendency to bump steer and seek the ditch.
Maybe I should stop jumping to conclusions; I mean I did take off the front struts.
It's odd; I'll get pretty much no vibrations at 25MPH, a whole lot of vibrations at 40MPH, then at 50-60MPH they're gone, and at 75MPH they're back again. Let me get these new rims and see if it fixes the problem.
Vibration, particularly frequency dependent (speed dependent) vibration, is generally a sign of a tire/wheel balance issue. If the first vibration frequency for an unbalanced wheel occurs at ~40 mph, then the next harmonic would occur at ~80 mph and at speeds in between the vibrations will die down.
sounds like a problems with the hormones of the car. Was it previously owned by a woman with PMS.
Ok for a real answer it sounds like something with the tires and wheels but I would get the suspension looked at. Could be a drivetrain issue.
Quote from: MX793 on November 01, 2011, 07:41:26 PM
Vibration, particularly frequency dependent (speed dependent) vibration, is generally a sign of a tire/wheel balance issue. If the first vibration frequency for an unbalanced wheel occurs at ~40 mph, then the next harmonic would occur at ~80 mph and at speeds in between the vibrations will die down.
Wow! Thanks!
It was the wheels/tires. SVT wheels (for the most part) don't do it; new tires up front with the SVT wheels. However, the rear tires have a bad summer tire, and a crap winter tire on them, so there's a slight vibration/noise issue.
I still think I need bearings, though.
lol... you either do or you don't. Are they loose? If not, don't bother them.
Did you get the wheels balanced? You should get the wheels balanced. Like I said in the first reply to the thread. All problems would go away.
Quote from: R-inge on November 02, 2011, 05:59:50 PM
lol... you either do or you don't. Are they loose? If not, don't bother them.
Annoying grinding noise. No more shaking, but the grinding is still there.
These are the symptoms I have
- Annoying knock over bumps
- Annoying grinding/dragging sound at speed (fades in and out)
Ball joints? Bearings?
Dragging noise could be bearings.
Jacked the car in the air today and did a wiggle test on the front wheels
Drivers side - Normal
Passenger side (where I've heard the noise) no Noon-6 movement, but too much 9-3 movement, and an audible soft clunk.
So, I'm thinking tie rod ends, possibly a wheel bearing and likely front stabilizer end links. The stabilizer links are pretty easy to fix, but the bearing and tie rods I'm sending out to a mechanic.
Definitely a tie rod there. The rod is easy to replace, if it's the outer, but you will need an alignment immediately afterward.
Thanks, guys. Ball joints are a scarier and more expensive fix.
New question: How much should a 4-wheel alighnment cost?
$50-$80 most likely.
No more than $100.
Quote from: R-inge on November 04, 2011, 12:18:57 PM
$50-$80 most likely.
Ok. One place told me $110, another told me $60.
I always used NTB out there.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 04, 2011, 02:30:38 PM
Ok. One place told me $110, another told me $60.
Around 80 is the regular.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 04, 2011, 02:30:38 PM
Ok. One place told me $110, another told me $60.
So what is the point of asking these questions then? You obviously have the mental acuity to pick up the fucking phone and dial them up, so are you just trying to catch us in some inaccuracy or are you trying to say that somebody 1000 fucking miles away knows what the going rate in your area is? I'm not going to bother with these questions anymore, not even sure why I did in the first place.
I think he thinks he's going to get ripped off or something.
Quote from: Rupert on November 05, 2011, 02:16:18 PM
I think he thinks he's going to get ripped off or something.
Yeah, not really sure anot these things so not sure where the ballpark for this type of thing is.
Quote from: R-inge on November 05, 2011, 01:40:19 PM
So what is the point of asking these questions then? You obviously have the mental acuity to pick up the fucking phone and dial them up, so are you just trying to catch us in some inaccuracy or are you trying to say that somebody 1000 fucking miles away knows what the going rate in your area is? I'm not going to bother with these questions anymore, not even sure why I did in the first place.
Because I'm not sure what rates for this sort of thin are, buy if you want to be rude about a basic question, then stay out of the thread.
Took it to an alignment shop
Bad bearings and sway bar end links (front).
Cheap!
I'm relieved.
So no more suspension or wheel/tire gremlins?
Quote from: Rupert on November 10, 2011, 07:15:53 PM
So no more suspension or wheel/tire gremlins?
I think so.
:clap:
Quote from: Rupert on November 10, 2011, 07:04:04 PM
Cheap!
Yeah, not cheap.
Lowest quote I got was $325 for both sides.
I'll do it for $200.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 11, 2011, 12:05:12 PM
The parts are $60 a piece.
Okay, $120 and a bottle of wine.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 11, 2011, 12:06:55 PM
Okay, $120 and a bottle of wine.
In all seriousness, if you were closer, I'd do it.
I don't think I can press those bearings out, anyway. There is a special giant tool for that.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 11, 2011, 12:02:45 PM
Yeah, not cheap.
Lowest quote I got was $325 for both sides.
That's pretty cheap.
Quote from: Rupert on November 11, 2011, 12:16:23 PM
That's pretty cheap.
What a relative term. (it is reasonable....just upset. I am a little light on $$$)
Well, save for a little, drive it as is, then fix it.
Quote from: Rupert on November 11, 2011, 12:43:53 PM
Well, save for a little, drive it as is, then fix it.
It's gotten worse. Wheel shakes really bad. Grinding is incredibly bad.C
Oh. The end links aren't critical, I don't think. Wheel bearings are, though. Get those fixed and wait on the end links?
Some retard tried to steal my wheels.
I lost a wheel, a lug nut stud is broken off and an SVT wheel is ruined.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 14, 2011, 02:23:13 PM
Some retard tried to steal my wheels.
I lost a wheel, a lug nut stud is broken off and an SVT wheel is ruined.
Fuck, dude. :(
Dang dude. Just can't catch a break..
Damn homie! Sorry to hear that.
On the plus side, a new lug stud is pretty cheap to fix.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 14, 2011, 02:23:13 PM
Some retard tried to steal my wheels.
I lost a wheel; a lug nut stud is broken off and an SVT wheel is ruined.
Interesting how much a difference a semi colon makes.
Good news:
Bearing is on! (The other one is OK, so I saved money by only getting one done. I don't have the $$$ for two) Wish I kinda had, though. Would have probably made the car feel brand new.
Car feels totally different. I love it again!
Bad News:
- lug stud is on order, should come in on Monday. (which means I still only have three lugs. But on the plus side, he said because of this, he took it off my bill. Just bring the car back and he'll do it)
- shop guy says that brake caliper bolt is cross-threaded (I haven't touched the front brakes. Whoever worked on this car before I got it is a total clown. Taking off the front struts, bolts were not spec and were different sizes)
- shop guy says I will need a new CV joint soon. :cry: (it's OK for now)
Cool. New rimz?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 19, 2011, 12:38:38 PM
Cool. New rimz?
I found another rim from the guy who sold me the SVT wheels. I just have to go and get it tomorrow.
And I don't want to take a car with three lugs and a temporary spare on the freeway ~30 minutes to get a wheel.
Half shafts don't seem super expensive.....$50 for the part (should I do both?). Hopefully, this will mean the end of problems for me.
It's only a 4 lug wheel, right? You should be fine with 3/4 lugs. Just don't go autocrossing.
Okay new question.
I know it is cheaper and less hassle to replace the entire drive shafts rather than fool around with a new CV joint. In my quick research, is the half shaft and drive shaft the same thing? Please forgive my ignorance.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 19, 2011, 12:50:17 PM
Okay new question.
I know it is cheaper and less hassle to replace the entire drive shafts rather than fool around with a new CV joint. In my quick research, is the half shaft and drive shaft the same thing? Please forgive my ignorance.
ja
Driveshaft = from transmission (or engine) output to differential (or transaxle)
Half shaft or axle shaft = from differential (or transaxle) to wheel
"Half shaft" usually refers to the shafts in independent suspensions. "Axle shaft" usually refers to the shafts in solid axles.
A Ford Focus has two half shafts.
His car gets a shaft?
My car has two whole shafts. :praise:
Mine has three, if you include me. :praise:
Well, then, mine, has eight, if, you include me. :huh:
Are you counting your arms and legs? Then mine has nine.
And my Exploder has ten.
Just as an overhaul from the "chat" thread.
Friday, I dropped my car off to do (what I thought would be) a simple job; a new bearing and fixing the lug bolt. I dropped the car off at around 1PM and told them I would pick up the car tomorrow morning; I had to work, and their shop closed at 6PM.
I go to the shop on Saturday at around 11AM, only to find my car completely untouched. Shop guy says it's next to go on the rack. OK, I figure maybe he got a little behind. It happens to all of us.
I show up at 2PM (when they close) that day. I get my car back, but he says the new lug stud he had to order in, and thus he couldn't. He says I can take the car, but I have to bring it back to get the new lug stud fixed. OK, whatever. The lug stud is still broke, but the bearing is fixed. I look at the invoice, and he reccomends I get a new CV shaft. I figure he's simply trying to sell more work; I checked the CV boot, nothing is torn and there is no clicking so I sort of ignore his advice. He also says the caliper slide bolt was cross threaded, I assumed he took it rorights when he took the entire steering knucle off. I drive off in the car, thinking everything is OK. I get in front of my house (around a 10 minute drive), and all of a sudden, the brake pedal goes nearly to the floor. I tap the brake pedal and all is normal again.
The shop is closed, and I tried leaving a message, but to no avail.
OK. I don't have a way to work, so I'm forced to drive the car. Brakes generally felt fine, except for one instance of it going too close to the floor.
Sunday, I drive the car, and it's pretty much the same as saturday; normal brake pedal with only a couple instances of it going to the floor. I thought that maybe the "air" in the line would have started to dissapate; the pedal didn't go to the floor as bad as it had been doing.
Monday (yesterda) at 9AM I drop the car off. Making note of the brake problem. He insists no air got into the line, and it may be due to a faulty CV axle. I ask about the caliper slide bolt; he deflects to the CV axle again. Whatever. He says he'll check it out, I THOUGHT it would be OK, nothing to suggest otherwise. I come back at 6PM, when they close; I had got off work minutes earlier.
My car had sat there ALL DAY, untouched.
He says "you should bring it back". I tell him, I'm not driving this car anywhere. Can I leave it here? He agrees.
Around an hour ago, I called the shop making sure my car had been seen. The receptonist tells me my car is done and I can go and pick it up. (I'm thinking "awesome!") But just to be careful, I ask about the brake problem. She transfers me to the mechanic, and he proceeds to tell me that I have a blown brake line. I ask how, and he says pretty much "IDK". He says that I told him the brake pedal was low when I dropped the car off.....when I dropped the car off, the brake pedal was perfectly fine (for the bearing).
He wants to charge me. If there is an issue with the brake lines, he sure as heck isn't touching my car again. I seemingly have the worst luck with mechanics.....and before you say that I was "cheaping out" his quote was near the top of what I got for a bearing replacement, and I THOUGHT he was a reputable mechanic.
OK, angry rant aside.
He told me that essentially, the bearing isn't threaded correctly on the axle, and is becoming unthreaded; thus the entire brake assembly shifting from side to side, and the sporadically funky brake pedal.
Now I don't feel so bad.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 22, 2011, 01:52:17 PM
OK, angry rant aside.
He told me that essentially, the bearing isn't threaded correctly on the axle, and is becoming unthreaded; thus the entire brake assembly shifting from side to side, and the sporadically funky brake pedal.
Now I don't feel so bad.
So he needs to fix it on HIS dime, not yours. HIS fault.
Quote from: CJ on November 22, 2011, 02:55:25 PM
So he needs to fix it on HIS dime, not yours. HIS fault.
Yep.
Unless your brake lines are rusted and getting holes.
Quote from: Rupert on November 22, 2011, 06:54:03 PM
Unless your brake lines are rusted and getting holes.
Mechanic says they're fine.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 22, 2011, 01:52:17 PM
OK, angry rant aside.
He told me that essentially, the bearing isn't threaded correctly on the axle, and is becoming unthreaded; thus the entire brake assembly shifting from side to side, and the sporadically funky brake pedal.
Now I don't feel so bad.
Again, this is a crock of shit. The bearing doesn't thread onto the axle. The bearing presses into the steering knuckle. The axle pokes through the middle of it and is held inside of the spline by the nut. It has nothing to do with the bearing.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on November 23, 2011, 05:52:28 PM
Again, this is a crock of shit. The bearing doesn't thread onto the axle. The bearing presses into the steering knuckle. The axle pokes through the middle of it and is held inside of the spline by the nut. It has nothing to do with the bearing.
I got my car back, and it's back to normal. A guy on the focus forum says it's the steering knuckle isn't secured correctly onto the axle, but unlikely.
"If the rotor was loose, axle nut not properly torqued, the pads in the caliper could open more than necessary. This would cause the pedal to travel much further to the floor the next time you went to brake. It does make sense, but I don't see why the nut isn't properly torqued unless he cross threaded the axle. In this case, this may be why he reccomends you need a new cv axle.
Ouch. It's hard to find a reputable shop these days. One that stands behind their mistakes, everybody makes them. "
In other words, it was likely his fault those threads got screwed up. (Unless the previous owner just had a fetish for taking off CV axles)
Whatever. Never going back to this guy again.
I think the mechanic was a little pissy; before I dropped off the car, he had mentioned that another shop guy was going through some emotional issues and screwed up a transmission job. Should have sent a red flag in my mind, but I thought nothing of it.
Oh well.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 23, 2011, 06:20:29 PM
I got my car back, and it's back to normal. A guy on the focus forum says it's the steering knuckle isn't secured correctly onto the axle, but unlikely.
"If the rotor was loose, axle nut not properly torqued, the pads in the caliper could open more than necessary. This would cause the pedal to travel much further to the floor the next time you went to brake. It does make sense, but I don't see why the nut isn't properly torqued unless he cross threaded the axle. In this case, this may be why he reccomends you need a new cv axle.
Ouch. It's hard to find a reputable shop these days. One that stands behind their mistakes, everybody makes them. "
In other words, it was likely his fault those threads got screwed up. (Unless the previous owner just had a fetish for taking off CV axles)
Whatever. Never going back to this guy again.
The guy on the Focus forum is also an idiot (surprise). The rotor is held against the hub by the wheel, not the axle nut. If you had a wheel so loose it was letting the disc flop around you'd have noticed really quickly.
:facepalm:
Quote from: Secret Chimp on November 23, 2011, 10:14:02 PM
The guy on the Focus forum is also an idiot (surprise). The rotor is held against the hub by the wheel, not the axle nut. If you had a wheel so loose it was letting the disc flop around you'd have noticed really quickly.
Yeah, juddering and vibration would have been pretty noticeable. :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on November 23, 2011, 06:20:29 PM
I got my car back, and it's back to normal. A guy on the focus forum says it's the steering knuckle isn't secured correctly onto the axle, but unlikely.
"If the rotor was loose, axle nut not properly torqued, the pads in the caliper could open more than necessary. This would cause the pedal to travel much further to the floor the next time you went to brake. It does make sense, but I don't see why the nut isn't properly torqued unless he cross threaded the axle. In this case, this may be why he reccomends you need a new cv axle.
Ouch. It's hard to find a reputable shop these days. One that stands behind their mistakes, everybody makes them. "
In other words, it was likely his fault those threads got screwed up. (Unless the previous owner just had a fetish for taking off CV axles)
Whatever. Never going back to this guy again.
A loose rotor isn't going to have enough force to push the caliper open. And even if it could, it certainly would not be enough to make the pedal sink to the floor. Pedal going to the floor is generally a sign that you're either low on brake fluid or there's air in the lines that needs to be bled out.
It's a sign that there is a problem with the pressure in the system. Low on fluid, air, leaks, etc.
Damn. A comedy of errors. :huh:
I predict 206 shortly will die in a horrible car accident.
The crappy shop that did my bearing wrong also managed to do my lug stud wrong.
The lug nut was crossthreaded on the stud, and it broke off, when I took the wheel/tire to be exchanged.
This is what happens when you shop around for the cheapest guy in town rather than the best guy in town.
Quote from: R-inge on November 25, 2011, 05:42:06 PM
This is what happens when you shop around for the cheapest guy in town rather than the best guy in town.
In the end, it's usually cheaper if you go to a more expensive mechanic and get it done right the first time.
Much of the time, yes.
Quote from: R-inge on November 25, 2011, 05:42:06 PM
This is what happens when you shop around for the cheapest guy in town rather than the best guy in town.
I didnt cheap out, though. His quote was near the top of my estimates...
These guys are idiots. If they made you pay a single penny to fix their dumbass mistakes, take them to court and/or file a BBB complaint.
Yeah, a BBB complaint will probably motivate them. I had to do that once, and shit was resolved very quickly.
Quote from: Rupert on November 26, 2011, 01:49:37 AM
Yeah, a BBB complaint will probably motivate them. I had to do that once, and shit was resolved very quickly.
It definately will! My granddad filed on a shop once and within 2 days they fixed his truck free of charge.
So I looked at the front left rotor. There's a nice 1/4 inch circumference of rust where the brake pad is not making making contact with the rotor. Methinks the caliper was not correctly reset back on the disc.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 26, 2011, 05:31:51 PM
So I looked at the front left rotor. There's a nice 1/4 inch circumference of rust where the brake pad is not making making contact with the rotor. Methinks the caliper was not correctly reset back on the disc.
And it wasn't like that before this fiasco?
You're going to need to change the rotor if it starts eating away at the pad.
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 26, 2011, 07:42:06 PM
And it wasn't like that before this fiasco?
You're going to need to change the rotor if it starts eating away at the pad.
No, it wasn't I'm thinking misshapen pads or a wonky rotor.
Go here for good reputable mechanic
http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechanics-files (http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechanics-files)
Good call, sparky.
206 I didn't know that your car doesn't have an air filter. I did a tune up on a friends 2005 Focus and it doesn't have a filter. Shocked the shit outta me!
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 03, 2011, 06:46:10 PM
206 I didn't know that your car doesn't have an air filter. I did a tune up on a friends 2005 Focus and it doesn't have a filter. Shocked the shit outta me!
I used to have an '05. It does have a filter, but it's a non-serviceable lifetime filter. There is vacuum gauge on the side of it that will tell you if it is clogged.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 03, 2011, 06:46:10 PM
206 I didn't know that your car doesn't have an air filter. I did a tune up on a friends 2005 Focus and it doesn't have a filter. Shocked the shit outta me!
It does too.
It's a regular paper one.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 03, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
I used to have an '05. It does have a filter, but it's a non-serviceable lifetime filter. There is vacuum gauge on the side of it that will tell you if it is clogged.
Yep! Thats what his had. I should have stated a regular paper filter.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 03, 2011, 09:20:29 PM
It does too.
It's a regular paper one.
No it doesn't!
2o6's car has a regular filter. The lifetime thing was new on the Duratec engines.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 04, 2011, 10:36:27 AM
2o6's car has a regular filter. The lifetime thing was new on the Duratec engines.
OH! OK! Stupid Fords! :mask:
You should probably change the air filter on you C6, perhaps to something that produces high airflow at greater than atmospheric pressure?
I've been looking at cold air kits. I haven't made up my mind tho!
Let me put it another way: supercharge it. :devil: