As some have gathered I'm sorta in the market for a new ride. The Accoridan is racking up miles (~146k) and I'm a bit bored with it.
I'm pretty much looking all up and down the spectrum of performance vehicles, but after a relatively low threshold, maintenance items become substantial; tires, DSG service, etc., depending on the car of course; from a $25k GTI or WRX to a $30k Mustang GT or Camaro SS. Suffice it to say I've never owned a car that needed this sort of attention (beyond a timing belt change every 100k, but that's not cheap).
For example, an S4 is shod with P255 35R19 summer performance tires. Such tires don't last long (20k miles) and depending on replacements, it's $1,000+ (all-seasons, though hard to find, I imagine would last longer, but not much). Dedicated studless snows are even more - up to $1,300 for a set.
As to what I'm looking at, is the maintenance costs worth the surcharge over a plebeian vehicle? Rhetorical I guess, but uncorking a car like an S4, TL, 335i, etc., on public roads is by definition a rare event.
Id have more heartburn with $150 oil changes at the bmw/audi dealer then $1k for tires
I think there is no "right" answer to your question. Like most pleasures in life, the relevant question is if the cost is worth it to YOU.
Anyone who spends the money in a sports/premium car is by definition answering yes, as in my case.
I am not sure that I would spend the money on a car like that if I lived in the US and did not plan to track it. The "uncorking" in public roads is much easier down here. And if you track then you have to start multiplying those regular maintenance costs by 2x or more easily.
Conclusion: personal choice. A car like that is a luxury, never a truly justifiable, rational decision.
Get it.
In terms of winter tires it is not necessary to go with the 19s. There are other sizes certified as well, though US may be different.
http://www.motor-talk.de/bilder/a4-8k-b8-zulaessige-felgen-reifen-und-reifendruck-g16459316/audi-s4-8k-reifenfuelldruck-jpg-i203282944.html
It depends how much you value driving enjoyment over the occasional maintenance cost. For me, there's no question. It's totally worth it.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 20, 2011, 12:55:46 PM
As some have gathered I'm sorta in the market for a new ride. The Accoridan is racking up miles (~146k) and I'm a bit bored with it.
I'm pretty much looking all up and down the spectrum of performance vehicles, but after a relatively low threshold, maintenance items become substantial; tires, DSG service, etc., depending on the car of course; from a $25k GTI or WRX to a $30k Mustang GT or Camaro SS. Suffice it to say I've never owned a car that needed this sort of attention (beyond a timing belt change every 100k, but that's not cheap).
For example, an S4 is shod with P255 35R19 summer performance tires. Such tires don't last long (20k miles) and depending on replacements, it's $1,000+ (all-seasons, though hard to find, I imagine would last longer, but not much). Dedicated studless snows are even more - up to $1,300 for a set.
As to what I'm looking at, is the maintenance costs worth the surcharge over a plebeian vehicle? Rhetorical I guess, but uncorking a car like an S4, TL, 335i, etc., on public roads is by definition a rare event.
Honestly and sincerely?
It depends on the person and the car. I've owned cars that were high maintenance money pits and loved every minute of it and wouldn't have traded that experience for anything. I've owned cars that required nothing other than routine maintenance and tires for 100,000 miles and loved those too. It simply depends on what your priorities are. The main thing is know what you are getting into beforehand. I'd imagine nothing is more depressing than buying a car and
then finding out an oil change is $150, and new tires are $1,200 a set and the timing belt needs replacement every 20,000 miles, or it needs a $4,000 Ferrari like service visit every 10,000 miles. As a friend of mine said of the E-type; "you pour money in the gas tank and smiles come out the tailpipe".
Yeah, Cougs... 19s are an odd size (IME w/ the Mustang)... go down to 18s and save a bundle or go up to 20s and save a little too.
I can't give you that answer. Is it worth it for me? Yes, hands down. I'd rather walk and carry a performance car alloy then drive a dull car.
Now to some people what just sounds crazy however. I say give it a try and see if you like it and find the extra cost worth it. If not then
trade it in on something else in a year or two. Probably not the best way to spend your money but you can't take it with you.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on December 20, 2011, 01:47:32 PM
Yeah, Cougs... 19s are an odd size (IME w/ the Mustang)... go down to 18s and save a bundle or go up to 20s and save a little too.
20s and 18s are always cheaper than 19s!
Yes, but I don't put that kind of miles on my car.
You could also compromise a bit and get something like a 328i w/ 17s, would still get most of the enjoyment on public roads.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 20, 2011, 06:53:43 PM
You could also compromise a bit and get something like a 328i w/ 17s, would still get most of the enjoyment on public roads.
Yea a 328i with the Sport Package would make more sense, plus prob still deliver the thrills dude needs.
If you have to wonder at all if it's worth it, it's probably not
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 20, 2011, 07:55:19 PM
If you have to wonder at all if it's worth it, it's probably not
Disagree. Good decisions are made when all the options are properly taken into consideration.
And yeah man, totally worth it!
The Acura TL SH-AWD, a legit front runner, also has 19s :facepalm: ...
328i Xdrive w/sport pkg is above $40k; the F30 328i will be turbo-4 as well, and that is a LOT of coin to pay for 4 cyl.
Yeah, it's not wondering that is the harbinger of "probably not" - buyers' remorse after the fact would be though.
I dunno, modern wheels and tires are pretty large now. The Kia Soul Sport comes with 18's as standard, and I believe that the new Kia Rio has 17" or 18" standard on upper level trims.
Maybe wait for the ATS as well?
Take $12,995, buy a Factory Five Cobra. Spend $5000 on a used Mustang GT, another $5000 on new parts. End result on a classic sports car you created... priceless.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on December 20, 2011, 01:47:32 PM
Yeah, Cougs... 19s are an odd size (IME w/ the Mustang)... go down to 18s and save a bundle or go up to 20s and save a little too.
20s belong on earth moving equipment.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 21, 2011, 01:32:08 AM
Take $12,995, buy a Factory Five Cobra. Spend $5000 on a used Mustang GT, another $5000 on new parts. End result on a classic sports car you created... priceless.
If he's not sure if these kinds of cars are worth it or not for himself then I'm 100% sure that this kind of thing is not for him.
swap them with an S4 owner that wants 19's but only has 18's... i'm sure it would be pretty easy to arrange
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on December 20, 2011, 08:22:10 PM
Disagree. Good decisions are made when all the options are properly taken into consideration.
And yeah man, totally worth it!
Yeah, I always think big decisions through and get a few opinions. Sporty has it backwards IMO, its the people who don't take the time to think about the costs who shouldn't be moving forward w/ a decision.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 21, 2011, 09:07:52 AM
Yeah, I always think big decisions through and get a few opinions. Sporty has it backwards IMO, its the people who don't take the time to think about the costs who shouldn't be moving forward w/ a decision.
Not necessarily, the "emotional" brain is much smarter than you think when considering complex decisions with lots of factors - like buying a car. It is, after all, the largest part of the brain.
I recently finished a great book about this: "How we decide" by Jonah Lehrer. Excellent book. It actually cites getting a car as a specific example of the emotional brain being capable of making better decisions than the rational brain. So, go with what "feels" right to you.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 21, 2011, 09:07:52 AM
Yeah, I always think big decisions through and get a few opinions. Sporty has it backwards IMO, its the people who don't take the time to think about the costs who shouldn't be moving forward w/ a decision.
There's a diff between figuring out if you can afford something and figuring out if something is worth parting with your money for
If you're agonizing over the former you have champagne tastes on a PBR budget
If you're agonizing over the latter you're prob not 100% committed to the idea to begin with
Buying a new car is taking a bath every single time. Hell buying used can be if you already have a perfectly good running car. Cougs doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do anything on a whim... and no matter how much you rationalize it, there is an element of impulsiveness that has to be present in buying a new car. ESPECIALLY a new car beyond what's necessary (i.e. not a Honda Accord)
If I was him... I would get an old S2000 and keep the Accord. Or trade for a new 4 banger Accord and an S200
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 21, 2011, 09:57:48 AM
There's a diff between figuring out if you can afford something and figuring out if something is worth parting with your money for
If you're agonizing over the former you have champagne tastes on a PBR budget
If you're agonizing over the latter you're prob not 100% committed to the idea to begin with
Buying a new car is taking a bath every single time. Hell buying used can be if you already have a perfectly good running car. Cougs doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do anything on a whim... and no matter how much you rationalize it, there is an element of impulsiveness that has to be present in buying a new car. ESPECIALLY a new car beyond what's necessary (i.e. not a Honda Accord)
If I was him... I would get an old S2000 and keep the Accord. Or trade for a new 4 banger Accord and an S200
I don't think Cougs is an S2000 kind of guy. I think he should buy a Camry SE and be done with it.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 21, 2011, 09:24:13 AM
Not necessarily, the "emotional" brain is much smarter than you think when considering complex decisions with lots of factors - like buying a car. It is, after all, the largest part of the brain.
Right, that's why so many people can't figure out how to live within their means.
Emotional side of the brain might be big and might be good at figuring out likes and dislikes but that doesn't mean it draws up a budget.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 21, 2011, 01:32:08 AM
Take $12,995, buy a Factory Five Cobra. Spend $5000 on a used Mustang GT, another $5000 on new parts. End result on a classic sports car you created... priceless.
For a variety of reasons I can't see him doing that.
Quote from: MiataJohn on December 21, 2011, 10:27:37 AM
For a variety of reasons I can't see him doing that.
He'd want to put a Mopar engine in it :nutty:...and that would be sacrilege :(.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 21, 2011, 10:31:13 AM
He'd want to put a Mopar engine in it :nutty:...and that would be sacrilege :(.
No he wouldn't. He doesn't like pooprods, so he would put a Honda 4 cylinder in it.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 21, 2011, 10:31:13 AM
He'd want to put a Mopar engine in it :nutty:...and that would be sacrilege :(.
No, he strikes me as someone who has little interest in building and driving something like that and I don't think he has or wants to learn the skills necessary to build one. That's not necessarly bad, building a kit car like that isn't for everyone.
Quote from: MiataJohn on December 21, 2011, 10:53:11 AM
No, he strikes me as someone who has little interest in building and driving something like that and I don't think he has or wants to learn the skills necessary to build one. That's not necessarly bad, building a kit car like that isn't for everyone.
That too :huh: ;).
Quote from: SVT666 on December 21, 2011, 10:33:35 AM
No he wouldn't. He doesn't like pooprods, so he would put a Honda 4 cylinder in it.
A Super 7 replica with a Honda K20 would be pretty sweet...
Quote from: Onslaught on December 21, 2011, 02:11:13 AM
If he's not sure if these kinds of cars are worth it or not for himself then I'm 100% sure that this kind of thing is not for him.
Was huge into modding cars once upon a time, so this is something I have mostly done (save for paint and body work) but now my interests and life have diverged from that. I also need something reliable for 100k miles.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 21, 2011, 10:14:13 AM
I don't think Cougs is an S2000 kind of guy. I think he should buy a Camry SE and be done with it.
I didn't want to say it
But it embodies easy stomp-n-go stoplight supremacy w/no qualms whatsoever about O&M costs/hassles.
He drove a whole buttload of cars and none of them wowed him enough to overcome his inner pragmatist. W/o spending an unfathomable amount of money I don't know that there is anything that will do the job better for him
No swipes or anything. Cougs have you driven the new Camry V6 yet?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 21, 2011, 09:57:48 AM
There's a diff between figuring out if you can afford something and figuring out if something is worth parting with your money for
If you're agonizing over the former you have champagne tastes on a PBR budget
If you're agonizing over the latter you're prob not 100% committed to the idea to begin with
Buying a new car is taking a bath every single time. Hell buying used can be if you already have a perfectly good running car. Cougs doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do anything on a whim... and no matter how much you rationalize it, there is an element of impulsiveness that has to be present in buying a new car. ESPECIALLY a new car beyond what's necessary (i.e. not a Honda Accord)
If I was him... I would get an old S2000 and keep the Accord. Or trade for a new 4 banger Accord and an S200
I've done the two car thing before - not worth it owing to the hassle of maintenance, cleaning, etc.
Not a fan of something like the S2000; I'd much sooner chose an Accord V6 coupe.
I've heard the new Camry has a much better interior than the old one
Quote from: MiataJohn on December 21, 2011, 10:53:11 AM
No, he strikes me as someone who has little interest in building and driving something like that and I don't think he has or wants to learn the skills necessary to build one. That's not necessarly bad, building a kit car like that isn't for everyone.
I could totally rock a Factory Five kit; have both the skills and experience save for paint and body work - sold the air stuff and welder some time ago so I'd have to retool a bit to take on such a project. Correct thought that time and desire is nil; partially burned out from the past but mostly my life has moved beyond wrenching on cars.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 21, 2011, 01:00:44 PM
I've done the two car thing before - not worth it owing to the hassle of maintenance, cleaning, etc.
Not a fan of something like the S2000; I'd much sooner chose an Accord V6 coupe.
Yea that is another realistic choice for you
As much as I rib you about the Camry shit I couldn't stomach buying something crazy brand new even if I could afford it. And if I didn't have time to wrench I wouldn't want to bother with something old either. Plus its just a car. My next car will prob be something like an old Sentra or something.
Yes, have driven the new Camry SE V6 (waiting till I make my choice then I will post a summary of all that I have driven). A surprise or two. But yes, the interior is improved, but didn't like the steering wheel and its controls.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 21, 2011, 01:06:12 PM
Yea that is another realistic choice for you
As much as I rib you about the Camry shit I couldn't stomach buying something crazy brand new even if I could afford it. And if I didn't have time to wrench I wouldn't want to bother with something old either. Plus its just a car. My next car will prob be something like an old Sentra or something.
Unthusiast! :rage: :rage: :rage:
Quote from: GoCougs on December 21, 2011, 01:09:47 PM
Yes, have driven the new Camry SE V6 (waiting till I make my choice then I will post a summary of all that I have driven). A surprise or two. But yes, the interior is improved, but didn't like the steering wheel and its controls.
Interesting. Previously you said complaints about steering wheels and controls are invalid.
Quote from: MX793 on December 21, 2011, 12:54:49 PM
A Super 7 replica with a Honda K20 would be pretty sweet...
You mean F20C?
Quote from: 68_427 on December 21, 2011, 02:00:43 PM
You mean F20C?
Probably, but I would try the K20. Less powerful out of the box, but Ks have intake cam phasing that the Fs don't. Makes for a huge improvement in low rpm driveability. Plus the Ks respond to mods much better than Fs to the point that the power difference doesn't matter.
Sorry just couldn't help myself.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 20, 2011, 12:55:46 PM
As some have gathered I'm sorta in the market for a new ride. The Accoridan is racking up miles (~146k) and I'm a bit bored with it.
I'm pretty much looking all up and down the spectrum of performance vehicles, but after a relatively low threshold, maintenance items become substantial; tires, DSG service, etc., depending on the car of course; from a $25k GTI or WRX to a $30k Mustang GT or Camaro SS. Suffice it to say I've never owned a car that needed this sort of attention (beyond a timing belt change every 100k, but that's not cheap).
For example, an S4 is shod with P255 35R19 summer performance tires. Such tires don't last long (20k miles) and depending on replacements, it's $1,000+ (all-seasons, though hard to find, I imagine would last longer, but not much). Dedicated studless snows are even more - up to $1,300 for a set.
As to what I'm looking at, is the maintenance costs worth the surcharge over a plebeian vehicle? Rhetorical I guess, but uncorking a car like an S4, TL, 335i, etc., on public roads is by definition a rare event.
You make bank. Get what you want.
What he wants is the problem :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on December 21, 2011, 01:39:54 PM
Interesting. Previously you said complaints about steering wheels and controls are invalid.
:lol:
New or CPO Lexus IS350? Keeps the price down (at least for the CPO version), reasonably quick/sporty, Japanese level reliability.
Don't know much about the maintenance costs of Lexuses (Lexi?) but I think the dealership experience is usually rated top-notch.
Quote from: dazzleman on January 07, 2012, 05:03:53 PM
You make bank. Get what you want.
I like to buy based on what I need. Wrapping my head buying around more is taking me some time. Have been getting huge use out of the Accord lately with various activities - just today did an all-day ski trip with four of us. Roof rack and snow tires and ~200 miles later she just plugs along even at ~150,000 miles. It looks like it has 40,000 miles yet I'm not too worried about road rash or it getting dirty. It just does goes.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on January 07, 2012, 07:45:58 PM
New or CPO Lexus IS350? Keeps the price down (at least for the CPO version), reasonably quick/sporty, Japanese level reliability.
Don't know much about the maintenance costs of Lexuses (Lexi?) but I think the dealership experience is usually rated top-notch.
Unacceptable backseat room - it's almost a four-door 2+2. But I do like the car overall.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Unacceptable backseat room - it's almost a four-door 2+2. But I do like the car overall.
Me + my 6' wife fit in it fine
But I could see its utility being limited
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 08, 2012, 11:41:13 AM
Me + my 6' wife fit in it fine
But I could see its utility being limited
Rear leg room is 30.6" - smaller than ANY compact I can Google. The back seats are coupe useless.
People have drastically differing definitions of "fit fine" in my experience.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2012, 10:28:37 PM
I like to buy based on what I need. Wrapping my head buying around more is taking me some time. Have been getting huge use out of the Accord lately with various activities - just today did an all-day ski trip with four of us. Roof rack and snow tires and ~200 miles later she just plugs along even at ~150,000 miles. It looks like it has 40,000 miles yet I'm not too worried about road rash or it getting dirty. It just does goes.
i know what you mean. You've reached a point in life when you can afford more than you need, and you're not sure how far beyond your needs to go in indulging your wants.
A lot will depend on your overall financial situation. If you have enough saved, are on the right financial trajectory, and don't require financing to go beyond what you need, then you can indulge yourself a bit.
Being able to do that is the one advantage of getting a little older. Why forego it?
Quote from: dazzleman on January 08, 2012, 03:52:39 PM
i know what you mean. You've reached a point in life when you can afford more than you need, and you're not sure how far beyond your needs to go in indulging your wants.
A lot will depend on your overall financial situation. If you have enough saved, are on the right financial trajectory, and don't require financing to go beyond what you need, then you can indulge yourself a bit.
Being able to do that is the one advantage of getting a little older. Why forego it?
Well, for one, in looking at the various options such as the TL, S4, 3 series, etc., I'm realizing that a fair amount of compromise is made for "luxury" and/or performance, and for me, the comprise is substantial (namely, reliability, passenger space, and cost of maintenance namely tires). I have zero interest in larger luxury/performance vehicles such as the E-class, A6, etc. Just far too ugly. The new 5 series is okay but again, it's all filled up with 'meh' such as turbocharged engines, iDrive, and far too much frivolous content, plus very mediocre reliability record.
Second, I have zero penchant for "luxury" features such as leather, moonroof, navigation, etc. I like some materially beneficial "luxury" features such as heated seats and HID headlights, and I'm opening up a bit to navigation, but that's about it. All these features however can be readily found on plebeian cars.
Third, though I do alright financially, now that I approach 40 and having recently embarked on long term financial planning, I realize how much money one will need to truly retire. As best as I figure, in 25 years' time (and factoring in TVM), a 65-year-old male in moderately good health will need at least $2MM to retire, and that's factoring in Medicare and Social Security. In the moderate chance those programs rightly dissolve, said wanton retiree would need at least $2.5MM. I'm partially on my way there but saving 10% or 20% of my income ain't going to be enough.
As it's shaping up, a slightly used and moderately equipped Camcord is very possibly in my near future.
Save the cushy boring cars for when you're old and your joints suck. Drive a brutal car while you still can.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 07:15:56 PM
Third, though I do alright financially, now that I approach 40 and having recently embarked on long term financial planning, I realize how much money one will need to truly retire. As best as I figure, in 25 years' time (and factoring in TVM), a 65-year-old male in moderately good health will need at least $2MM to retire, and that's factoring in Medicare and Social Security. In the moderate chance those programs rightly dissolve, said wanton retiree would need at least $2.5MM. I'm partially on my way there but saving 10% or 20% of my income ain't going to be enough.
You sure about that? I don't know of anyone with that kind of money. Even ones who are retired or working for it.
Quote from: Laconian on January 08, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
Save the cushy boring cars for when you're old and your joints suck. Drive a brutal car while you still can.
Again, as I come closer to grokking the decision and actually testing driving cars, there are too many compromises for what I use a daily driver for; skiing, mountain biking and hiking (i.e., gravel road travel), and carrying people and stuff around, etc. For example, to pick on the S4 again, the back seat is shockingly tight and the replacement tires, which I'd need on average every 16 months with my current driving habits, are ~$1,500 a set. I'm pretty sure it needs synthetic oil and has short life brakes. And with all such cars the reliability track record is marginal. It ain't lasting a ~100k miles, let alone the ~150k miles as I have on the Accord, without significant repairs.
To agitate again with the Camcord V6 for the 87th time, it's the perfect type of car for me. Carries four and all our gear with ease. Can be fairly cheaply be fitted with snow tires and roof and hitch racks. Best possible reliability track record. And despite what is said on here, they are better performing and more engaging cars to drive than most cars; either those here on the 'SPIN or in the public in general. I think I'm going to wait till the all-new Accord is debuted before making any final decisions.
Quote from: Onslaught on January 08, 2012, 08:48:50 PM
You sure about that? I don't know of anyone with that kind of money. Even ones who are retired or working for it.
The issue is, just by trending inflation of health care, and major lifestyle items such as fuel, utilities, and the like, plus abominable monetary policy, I estimate a 5% inflation rate and a 3% savings rate. That means that $2MM in 2037 is equivalent to only $754,000 today, which if factoring in a $2,000/month draw down, would leave a retiree with $0 during the 19th year of retirement.
True, few have that kind of money. Scary indeed.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 20, 2011, 04:42:18 PM
20s and 18s are always cheaper than 19s!
I was relieved that the LR2 had the 18in wheels instead of the 19s, which is an option on that car. The price of tires can almost double between 18 and 19.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 07:15:56 PM
Well, for one, in looking at the various options such as the TL, S4, 3 series, etc., I'm realizing that a fair amount of compromise is made for "luxury" and/or performance, and for me, the comprise is substantial (namely, reliability, passenger space, and cost of maintenance namely tires). I have zero interest in larger luxury/performance vehicles such as the E-class, A6, etc. Just far too ugly. The new 5 series is okay but again, it's all filled up with 'meh' such as turbocharged engines, iDrive, and far too much frivolous content, plus very mediocre reliability record.
I'm not sure why you think there is such a
drastic difference in reliability between an Camry and, say, an A4. My Passat (same car different skin, at least back in my model year) was very reliable 'til I traded it in at 153K miles a few weeks ago – just oil changes, brakes/tires and changed the timing belt around 100K. It had one factory defect, which was covered under warranty. Growing up, my family usually always had one "plebian" car and one luxury and/or sports car. Save my Saab Story, I never remember any of those luxury/performance cars being significantly less reliable than the other cars. I think those issues tend to be overstated.
I hate to use an old slogan, but "driving is believing," if that makes any sense. When I was just searching for a car, I test drove a BMW 3er. It was actually an emotional experience for me. You could feel the soul of the car. I wish I could've gotten it, but unfortunately my situation is such that I need an SUV at the moment. But some day when the LR2 starts getting long in the tooth with 150K miles, I think I'll end up keeping it as a second utility car that I can beat up on the beach/in the woods without worrying about scratching paint etc., and get a 3er. I had never really driven one, save for a girl I went on a date with once who had a couple too many drinks at dinner, but it was an enjoyable experience.
If you drive the car and it does nothing for you, move on...
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 10:03:50 PM
Again, as I come closer to grokking the decision and actually testing driving cars, there are too many compromises for what I use a daily driver for; skiing, mountain biking and hiking (i.e., gravel road travel), and carrying people and stuff around, etc. For example, to pick on the S4 again, the back seat is shockingly tight and the replacement tires, which I'd need on average every 16 months with my current driving habits, are ~$1,500 a set. I'm pretty sure it needs synthetic oil and has short life brakes. And with all such cars the reliability track record is marginal. It ain't lasting a ~100k miles, let alone the ~150k miles as I have on the Accord, without significant repairs.
To agitate again with the Camcord V6 for the 87th time, it's the perfect type of car for me. Carries four and all our gear with ease. Can be fairly cheaply be fitted with snow tires and roof and hitch racks. Best possible reliability track record. And despite what is said on here, they are better performing and more engaging cars to drive than most cars; either those here on the 'SPIN or in the public in general. I think I'm going to wait till the all-new Accord is debuted before making any final decisions.
All you are doing is trying to convince yourself just to get a new Camry or Accord. Spare us the "...more engaging than all your cars..." bullshit. They aren't. You know it. We know it. You want another dull midsize family sedan, so just buy one.
The Accord is the only choice for the alphas. Anything less is a beta move.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 10:03:50 PM
Again, as I come closer to grokking the decision and actually testing driving cars...
Did you actually just say "grokking?"
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 09, 2012, 12:07:15 AM
Did you actually just say "grokking?"
I did. 'Tis a good term. Liked the book but not the biggest Heinlein fan despite trying many times.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:30:36 AM
I did. 'Tis a good term. Liked the book but not the biggest Heinlein fan despite trying many times.
Okay. Just checkin'
Quote from: TurboDan on January 08, 2012, 11:32:13 PM
I'm not sure why you think there is such a drastic difference in reliability between an Camry and, say, an A4. My Passat (same car different skin, at least back in my model year) was very reliable 'til I traded it in at 153K miles a few weeks ago ? just oil changes, brakes/tires and changed the timing belt around 100K. It had one factory defect, which was covered under warranty. Growing up, my family usually always had one "plebian" car and one luxury and/or sports car. Save my Saab Story, I never remember any of those luxury/performance cars being significantly less reliable than the other cars. I think those issues tend to be overstated.
I hate to use an old slogan, but "driving is believing," if that makes any sense. When I was just searching for a car, I test drove a BMW 3er. It was actually an emotional experience for me. You could feel the soul of the car. I wish I could've gotten it, but unfortunately my situation is such that I need an SUV at the moment. But some day when the LR2 starts getting long in the tooth with 150K miles, I think I'll end up keeping it as a second utility car that I can beat up on the beach/in the woods without worrying about scratching paint etc., and get a 3er. I had never really driven one, save for a girl I went on a date with once who had a couple too many drinks at dinner, but it was an enjoyable experience.
If you drive the car and it does nothing for you, move on...
Between official sources (JD, Consumer Reports) and the significant anecdotal stories from my myriad Teutonic-centric friends, I have concluded that such cars aren't as reliable as a Camcord. Many such enthusiasts not only acknowledge such things, they're fine with it - they see it as an equitable trade, including my friend with the 996 Turbo (told me yesterday it's developed an engine leak recently). I just wouldn't be. Life's too busy to muck about with car repairs - I've spent way too much time in the past mucking with such things.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 08, 2012, 11:55:14 PM
All you are doing is trying to convince yourself just to get a new Camry or Accord. Spare us the "...more engaging than all your cars..." bullshit. They aren't. You know it. We know it. You want another dull midsize family sedan, so just buy one.
Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.
I'm still not sure where the "Camcord V6's are better than most cars" argument. Pretty much everyone who has posted in this thread has or had a car more fun than a Camcord V6.
I knew this thread would devolve to that eventually. Cougs is just baiting the board.
I didn't devolve it. We can thank for like the 37th time the turkey who is literally suffering PTSD from the Camaro's success as a product and as a market presence insists on polluting any thread I care to post in.
Quote from: Onslaught on January 08, 2012, 08:48:50 PM
You sure about that? I don't know of anyone with that kind of money. Even ones who are retired or working for it.
No actually that is probably pretty close IMO, depending on what kind of pensions one has when they retire.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 10:03:50 PM
And despite what is said on here, they are better performing and more engaging cars to drive than most cars
Such as?
I agree that they are good cars ownership wise, but I have driven the best those marques have to offer (07 Accord V6 6 speed coupe), and while that was somewhat fun it was hardly thrilling. These are still 3500lb automatic transmission FWD sedans... there is good reason people don't choose these platforms for racing...
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 10:28:41 PM
The issue is, just by trending inflation of health care, and major lifestyle items such as fuel, utilities, and the like, plus abominable monetary policy, I estimate a 5% inflation rate and a 3% savings rate. That means that $2MM in 2037 is equivalent to only $754,000 today, which if factoring in a $2,000/month draw down, would leave a retiree with $0 during the 19th year of retirement.
True, few have that kind of money. Scary indeed.
If that advice is from a finacial planner you need a new one, IMHO. Don't forget your investments (401k, any brokerage accounts, 403B, whatever are not sitting stagnant, or shouldn't be at least). You should have your money is something that returns a decent ROR. and some of it in something that shows decent growth and return potential. You should be making the max contribution to your 401K or 403B. and saving elsewhere as well, if you can. Pretax deductions are your best friend.
As for a car. I'v owned at least 1 toy in addition to the daily drivers since I was 30. One doesn't need to invest a ton of money in one to have fun. Don't want one for a daily driver, fine. Get one as a second car toy. I enjoy wrenching so it's a hobby with me. My philosophy is that it's better to look back and think, "Damn, that Fiat Spider, or Model A, or E-type or fill in the blank, was a lot of fun" rather than sitting there when you retire and thinking, "Damn, I wish, I'd bought that car back in 2012". You only are going to ride this merry-go-round once, so enjoy it while you can.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:40:07 AM
Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.
My forutes turn around? My wife and I grossed $180,000 last calendar year. We went on three trips, bought a trailer and a boat and paid cash for it all. So fuck you. If you want a Camcord V6, then buy a Camcord V6 and stop trying to justify it with bullshit arguments like "...more engaging to drive than any other Spinner's cars..."
If you can't find a compelling reason why a CPO 5 Series or brand new 3 Series or whatever else you are mythically looking at is better than a Camry, then there is nothing that any of the entusiasts on this forum can say or do to change your mind. You don't have to convince us of your car decision since we all knew you would end up with a Camcord before you did. The purpose of this thread is to convince yourself...hence the the BS excuses to buy a Camcord.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:40:07 AM
Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.
Lol
For what
YOU want the CamCord is perfect. Where you (justifiably) get shitted on is trying to say the CamCord is perfect for
everybody. And then to have the gall to say they are engaging. Again compared to what? The most popular car here is the Miata. SVT666's Focus is way more engaging than pretty much any CamCord ever made. So what exactly are you talking about?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:38:05 AM
Life's too busy to muck about with car repairs - I've spent way too much time in the past mucking with such things.
And life is too short to drive an appliance. Unless, of course, that's all you demand of a car. :huh:
Accent > Camcord
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:40:07 AM
Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.
Who here would be jealous of your hypothetical Camcord? To the contrary, when I see a middle aged guy driving one of those things, I always feel sorry for guy, having made the assumption that he would've gotten something cooler had his wife not de-balled him to such an extent that he has to drive a boring, cheap sedan that meets the approval of her sensibilities.
Quote from: TurboDan on January 09, 2012, 09:14:09 AM
Who here would be jealous of your hypothetical Camcord? To the contrary, when I see a middle aged guy driving one of those things, I always feel sorry for guy, having made the assumption that he would've gotten something cooler had his wife not de-balled him to such an extent that he has to drive a boring, cheap sedan that meets the approval of her sensibilities.
I don't always think it's the wife's fault, but I do feel bad for the guy driving it still. To be single, with no family, and yet still pining for a V6 Camcord, all while trashing people who drive far more engaging cars, is pretty pathetic.
Jealous of a CamCord V6 (http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/laff.gif)
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 09, 2012, 07:49:39 AM
Such as?
I agree that they are good cars ownership wise, but I have driven the best those marques have to offer (07 Accord V6 6 speed coupe), and while that was somewhat fun it was hardly thrilling. These are still 3500lb automatic transmission FWD sedans... there is good reason people don't choose these platforms for racing...
Hey
SportyAccordy, didn't you purchase and modify something like 3 Honda Accords? :wtf:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 07:26:41 AM
I didn't devolve it. We can thank for like the 37th time the turkey who is literally suffering PTSD from the Camaro's success as a product and as a market presence insists on polluting any thread I care to post in.
The thread was dead the moment you decided that "it" wasn't worth it. I won't fault you for buying a Toyota Camry if that's what you want, and I think people here take the whole Camcord criticism thing way too far, but surely you can understand why they don't want to have endless discussions about cars they don't find to be exciting in any way.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 07, 2012, 10:30:08 PM
Unacceptable backseat room - it's almost a four-door 2+2. But I do like the car overall.
I test drove an IS back when I bought the vette and reached the same conclusion. Back seat room is abysmal, defeating the purpose of a sedan IMO. It ranked last of the sedans I considered, vs the g35 and 3er.
With all the outdoor stuff you do I'm surprised you aren't exclusively looking at hatch or wagons if not a small SUV. Almost seems a 2 car setup would make most sense.
I come up with a minimum $3 million (in today's dollars) plus paid off house and no personal debt for a comfortable (but not lavish) retirement. I don't want to be in a position where I'd have to touch principal at all in order to fund living expenses, which is really just a gamble on how long you think you'll live.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 09, 2012, 09:49:17 AM
I come up with a minimum $3 million (in today's dollars) plus paid off house and no personal debt for a comfortable (but not lavish) retirement. I don't want to be in a position where I'd have to touch principal at all in order to fund living expenses, which is really just a gamble on how long you think you'll live.
What do you consider a safe but reasonable rate of return?
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 09:42:49 AMHey SportyAccordy, didn't you purchase and modify something like 3 Honda Accords? :wtf:
I did... and they were fun... but I also didn't know what else was out there. I still have some fond memories of those cars, but much of that was based in context.
I've driven the same cars recently... and found them to be boring and old. People's opinions can change over time :huh:
Like I said... the cars are decent. With some mods they can be fun. But we all know Cougs won't turn a wrench (and I don't fault him for that). But I still think it's ridiculous for him to assert something like an Accord DX V6 is more engaging than... well... anything. The cars are designed to isolate.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 08, 2012, 02:27:29 PM
Rear leg room is 30.6" - smaller than ANY compact I can Google. The back seats are coupe useless.
It feels even smaller than the numbers suggest.
Quote from: Submariner on January 09, 2012, 10:52:04 AM
It feels even smaller than the numbers suggest.
Unless they've made changes recently the problem is the shape of the front seats leaves no knee room. It's horrible.
S4 ain't much better.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 09, 2012, 11:21:44 AM
Unless they've made changes recently the problem is the shape of the front seats leaves no knee room. It's horrible.
S4 ain't much better.
Having been in the back seat of my brother's car, I agree. The rear seats are tight for full size adults.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26343.msg1646107#msg1646107 date=1326134066
Having been in the back seat of my brother's car, I agree. The rear seats are tight for full size adults.
As opposed to miniature adults?
I have plenty of pint size adult friends. They just stopped growing i guess.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 11:35:36 AM
As opposed to miniature adults?
Well, these guys never complain about the lack of rear leg room. Or headroom for that matter.
(http://thisweekinblackness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hobbits.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 11:35:36 AM
As opposed to miniature adults?
I have a lot of midget friends from that summer I worked at a circus.
Ok, having established what the baseline for what you want - have you considered a second-gen Mazda 6 V6? Or perhaps a Nissan Altima V6 or a Maxima?
Both seem to fit your needs well and tend towards the sporty side of the mid-size sedan spectrum.
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 09:42:49 AM
Hey SportyAccordy, didn't you purchase and modify something like 3 Honda Accords? :wtf:
The thread was dead the moment you decided that "it" wasn't worth it. I won't fault you for buying a Toyota Camry if that's what you want, and I think people here take the whole Camcord criticism thing way too far, but surely you can understand why they don't want to have endless discussions about cars they don't find to be exciting in any way.
I don't have "endless" discussions. Others troll it and usually actually mention it first. It's enthusiast fail incarnate, with the worst trolling coming from a turkey with no car at all, who, ironies of ironies, was also prolific Accord owner in the past. I'm amazed they keep up with it given how bad it makes them look.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 09, 2012, 07:55:08 AM
If that advice is from a finacial planner you need a new one, IMHO. Don't forget your investments (401k, any brokerage accounts, 403B, whatever are not sitting stagnant, or shouldn't be at least). You should have your money is something that returns a decent ROR. and some of it in something that shows decent growth and return potential. You should be making the max contribution to your 401K or 403B. and saving elsewhere as well, if you can. Pretax deductions are your best friend.
As for a car. I'v owned at least 1 toy in addition to the daily drivers since I was 30. One doesn't need to invest a ton of money in one to have fun. Don't want one for a daily driver, fine. Get one as a second car toy. I enjoy wrenching so it's a hobby with me. My philosophy is that it's better to look back and think, "Damn, that Fiat Spider, or Model A, or E-type or fill in the blank, was a lot of fun" rather than sitting there when you retire and thinking, "Damn, I wish, I'd bought that car back in 2012". You only are going to ride this merry-go-round once, so enjoy it while you can.
No financial planner - they all pretty much suck and exist mostly to sell lousy product IMO. $2MM in 2037 dollars will run out in ~19 years presuming $2,000 (in 2011 dollars) monthly draw down, 5% inflation and 3% return. This presumes SS and Medicare subsidies (worth about $2,000 in 2011 dollars as best I can estimate). If those crash, or the benefits are reduced, one will need more than $2MM for a minimum self-funded retirement.
Not really into cars, at least owning them, like I was. Did a LOT of that in my 20s. I don't have time for it now, and when I do have a free time I have other things that catch my fancy.
In a lot respect I can see where cougs is coming from. The mid sized entries do everything he wants fr a good price, decent economy and good performance. They're by no means fun, but the value of those cars is very strong.
I drove a V6 Maxima the other day, and the value of ht car was staggering; very fast, very competent in the curves with decent economy, matinence costs, and plenty of space.
I wouldn't buy them, however. Too much car for me, and the economy isn't as good as I need. I also like cars that feel tiny and fun.
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 09:56:13 AM
What do you consider a safe but reasonable rate of return?
Probably 8ish percent is a reasonable LT avg, however the trap people get into when looking at LT avgs like that is as we've seen recently, markets can average that or higher over the long term yet still have decade-long periods of feast or famine. It's for that reason I'd rather not touch principal if I have the option, and I think I will.
My grossly oversimplified math is my current equity portfolio has a dividend yield of about 3%. That means a roughly $3m porfolio would generate almost $100k of tax efficient income, which combined with a paid off house would provide a comfortable though not lavish existence. Obviously I'd hope for some price appreciation there, but the point is not to count on it to fund living expenses. The hope would be that without touching principle the portfolio value would increase over time, meaning my retirement planning isn't dependent upon rolling the dice on an estimate of life expectancancy. Note also dividends grow over time, so my income would (hopefully) at least keep pace with inflation.
This is just how I look at things for myself, not a recommendation on how I think others should look at it. Only reason I mentioned it is IMO coug's $2m is probably about right, I think people are wrong if they suggest he's over saving by having that target.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:09:32 PM
I don't have "endless" discussions. Others troll it and usually actually mention it first. It's enthusiast fail incarnate, with the worst trolling coming from a turkey with no car at all, who, ironies of ironies, was also prolific Accord owner in the past. I'm amazed they keep up with it given how bad it makes them look.
Creating a thread about whether fun cars are "worth it," teasing the forum about buying something like a Camaro SS or Audi S4, and then concluding the discussion by deciding that the Camcord is "more engaging cars to drive than most cars," is just asking to be trolled.
I've read psychological POVs on LT investing on the feast/famine effect of LT returns over a large sample of investors; nothing's ever averaged much better than inflation minus fees/taxes perpetually. So though some funds/vehicles/whatever can hit 7-8%+ for periods of time the psychological inevitability of people pulling equity out during famine naturally has a significant toll on LT returns. This is how I came up with a 3% return at retirement age onward; a filter for the feast/famine cycle.
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 12:29:29 PM
Creating a thread about whether fun cars are "worth it," teasing the forum about buying something like a Camaro SS or Audi S4, and then concluding the discussion by deciding that the Camcord is "more engaging cars to drive than most cars," is just asking to be trolled.
Maybe, but it's true and indefeatible, and thus the sin rests with the tollers...
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:39:23 PM
Maybe, but it's true and indefeatible, and thus the sin rests with the tollers...
Quote from: ChrisV on September 11, 2009, 06:32:57 PM
You really don't know shit. And I say that in the nicest possible way.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 12:39:23 PM
Maybe, but it's true and indefeatible, and thus the sin rests with the tollers...
You are the ultimate troll here, cmon now
And me not owning a car/having owned Accords in the past is irrelevant... if what we own is what is a measure of our enthusiasm or values, one all my Accords were pretty heavily modified (and stickshift), two my motorcycle def shows more of a priority of driver involvement than damn near any car (especially any you've ever owned). There are higher things on my list of reasons to get a car than to impress a dude online who is rife w/transparent contradictions, my apologies. And even though I prob won't be going big w/my next car, that's solely because of priorities, not because I subscribe to your wonky train of thought
Bottom line you had your mind made up, which is fine. I think for you a CamCord is a good choice. Again where you failed was in convincing people that is the best choice for anyone who wants some driving excitement. A CamCord V6 is pretty low on the totem pole of driving excitement...
They're mildly exciting in a straight line but a bit disconnected from the roar of the engine and rush of the outside air--a side effect of the top-notch insulation job. In terms of handling the Camry is just plain wallowy, unacceptably so for a lot of people. I enjoy plush, comfortable rides but I hated the Camry. You can make comfort feel planted and under control. The Camry is so numb that it wanders, and the body roll is awful for a car built in 2012. It's the most boat-like of any modern car I've driven. The Accord would be the clear choice IMO between the two.
Cougs, have you looked at the new Maxima? It looks so much cooler than the Camry and Accord.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26343.msg1646229#msg1646229 date=1326141938
Cougs, have you looked at the new Maxima? It looks so much cooler than the Camry and Accord.
But that's not a Camcord. That's a MaxiTL, Maxivalon, Maxiaurus, Maxipad... uh
Honestly cougs, I would check out the new 3. I don't recall what you said about it recently but I know you said you did like it. I drove the facelifted but old E90 328i and IMO it was a spectacular car. Very comfortable, yet had great handling. It also "only" had 228 hp but also had pretty much the best automatic I've ever driven that was very smart at holding or dropping gears.
IMO a 328xi or 335xi would be great for you. At least give it a shot before you discount it.
This thread sucks.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 09, 2012, 02:09:51 PM
Honestly cougs, I would check out the new 3. I don't recall what you said about it recently but I know you said you did like it. I drove the facelifted but old E90 328i and IMO it was a spectacular car. Very comfortable, yet had great handling. It also "only" had 228 hp but also had pretty much the best automatic I've ever driven that was very smart at holding or dropping gears.
IMO a 328xi or 335xi would be great for you. At least give it a shot before you discount it.
Reliability, rear seat room.
The choice was made well before the thread was made.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 09, 2012, 02:16:01 PM
Needs more V8.
Especially if it's in an Ariel Atom.
This is the face of a true enthusiast:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/10/clarkson-italian-job.jpg)
Quote from: 68_427 on January 09, 2012, 02:16:01 PM
Needs more V8.
Someone talk Cougs into a CPO G8. It's like related to the Camaro he is supposedly so fond of or something
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 09, 2012, 02:18:25 PM
Especially if it's in an Ariel Atom.
This is the face of a true enthusiast:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/10/clarkson-italian-job.jpg)
(http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/tx/TXHUNhenge15_head.jpg)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 09, 2012, 02:20:28 PM
Someone talk Cougs into a CPO G8. It's like related to the Camaro he is supposedly so fond of or something
No. If he gets one, then I can't.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 09, 2012, 02:20:28 PM
Someone talk Cougs into a CPO G8. It's like related to the Camaro he is supposedly so fond of or something
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 02:27:51 PM
No. If he gets one, then I can't.
:lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 02:27:51 PM
No. If he gets one, then I can't.
It's okay. Cougs will get the V6 and claim how it outperforms everything on the road. Then you can whip out your V8.
This thread is stupid. Buy an Accord V6 and don't bring up this point again.
Quote from: Raza on January 09, 2012, 01:45:38 PM
Cougs, have you looked at the new Maxima? It looks so much cooler than the Camry and Accord.
I agree. The new Max is a fantastic looking car. However, the CVT is a killer.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 06:23:08 PM
I agree. The new Max is a fantastic looking car. However, the CVT is a killer.
I dunno, CVT's and big engines are awesome. I loved the V6 Murano I drove, mostly because of the transmission.
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 01:39:09 PM
They're mildly exciting in a straight line but a bit disconnected from the roar of the engine and rush of the outside air--a side effect of the top-notch insulation job. In terms of handling the Camry is just plain wallowy, unacceptably so for a lot of people. I enjoy plush, comfortable rides but I hated the Camry. You can make comfort feel planted and under control. The Camry is so numb that it wanders, and the body roll is awful for a car built in 2012. It's the most boat-like of any modern car I've driven. The Accord would be the clear choice IMO between the two.
Haven driven lots of both (V6 versions), the '12 Camry is the better car in every way. The Accord is relatively chintzy, less refined, and noticeably slower. I was going to wait till I had test driven everything I had wanted before summarizing everything, but the '12 Camry SE V6 overall is an excellent vehicle. Amazingly, one of its detriments is the ride is a bit harsh if one can believe it. It can't exactly hang with at G37 or TL but by gods it'll give each a run for their money. I can say this confidently because I have driven all of these recently, and my hunch is no one else here has. :huh:
Quote from: thecarnut on January 09, 2012, 02:09:51 PM
Honestly cougs, I would check out the new 3. I don't recall what you said about it recently but I know you said you did like it. I drove the facelifted but old E90 328i and IMO it was a spectacular car. Very comfortable, yet had great handling. It also "only" had 228 hp but also had pretty much the best automatic I've ever driven that was very smart at holding or dropping gears.
IMO a 328xi or 335xi would be great for you. At least give it a shot before you discount it.
The new xDrive 3 is not till later in the year. It looks like an alright car but not a fan of BMWs really.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 06:23:08 PM
I agree. The new Max is a fantastic looking car. However, the CVT is a killer.
It's CVT only? That sucks.
Doesn't it have 6 fake ratios though?
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26343.msg1646229#msg1646229 date=1326141938
Cougs, have you looked at the new Maxima? It looks so much cooler than the Camry and Accord.
I second this. The Maxima is comparable in price to what Cougs is looking at, and has good room in it. Great suggestion, IMO.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 09, 2012, 08:29:23 PM
Doesn't it have 6 fake ratios though?
That defeats the purpose of a CVT......
Quote from: 2o6 on January 09, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
That defeats the purpose of a CVT......
Depends on what you see its purpose as.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 06:40:24 PM
Haven driven lots of both (V6 versions), the '12 Camry is the better car in every way. The Accord is relatively chintzy, less refined, and noticeably slower. I was going to wait till I had test driven everything I had wanted before summarizing everything, but the '12 Camry SE V6 overall is an excellent vehicle. Amazingly, one of its detriments is the ride is a bit harsh if one can believe it. It can't exactly hang with at G37 or TL but by gods it'll give each a run for their money. I can say this confidently because I have driven all of these recently, and my hunch is no one else here has. :huh:
I've only driven the Toyota and that wasn't my experience at all. Maybe the new Accord is just that much worse than the old one, in which case I'd probably go for the Mazda 6, a Subaru, or just keep your current gen Accord V6 because it still has a lot of life in it and the Toyota isn't a huge upgrade. But hey if you like the Camry that much, that's all that matters.
I wanna try the back seats in the 4DSC.
(http://onsurga.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2012-Nissan-Maxima-Interior-Pictures.jpg)
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 09:54:31 PM
I've only driven the Toyota and that wasn't my experience at all. Maybe the new Accord is just that much worse than the old one, in which case I'd probably go for the Mazda 6, a Subaru, or just keep your current gen Accord V6 because it still has a lot of life in it and the Toyota isn't a huge upgrade. But hey if you like the Camry that much, that's all that matters.
The 2012 Camry SE is a huge upgrade over my '05 Accord. The '12 Accord is somewhere in between the two. The new Legacy is a :facepalm: in the interior. The M/T in the GT blows. A bit better interior and a decent M/T and it'd be quite a compelling package.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 10:16:58 PM
The 2012 Camry SE is a huge upgrade over my '05 Accord. The '12 Accord is somewhere in between the two. The new Legacy is a :facepalm: in the interior. The M/T in the GT blows. A bit better interior and a decent M/T and it'd be quite a compelling package.
Lightly used 2009 GT?
No pics, but 21K miles.
http://autos.yahoo.com/used-cars/subaru-legacy-cars1795772021739658790;_ylt=AnjGd39rPkFIx7YITyjU9prYXY54;_ylv=3?sortcol=price&sortdir=down&modelyearub=2009&modelyearlb=2009&askpriceub=any&askpricelb=any&deliverymileageub=any&deliverymileagelb=any&location=Hilton%2C+NY+14468&listingtype=used&model=legacy&make=subaru&distance=any
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 10:16:58 PM
The 2012 Camry SE is a huge upgrade over my '05 Accord. The '12 Accord is somewhere in between the two. The new Legacy is a :facepalm: in the interior. The M/T in the GT blows. A bit better interior and a decent M/T and it'd be quite a compelling package.
No comment on the Mazda6? Handling, overall fit and finish, as well as interior all superior to the likes of the Camry. Reliability on par.
Quote from: TurboDan on January 09, 2012, 10:34:18 PM
No comment on the Mazda6? Handling, overall fit and finish, as well as interior all superior to the likes of the Camry. Reliability on par.
There's a new one coming shortly as well. Within a year or two the Korean twins will be the oldest in the class.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 09, 2012, 10:16:58 PM
The 2012 Camry SE is a huge upgrade over my '05 Accord. The '12 Accord is somewhere in between the two. The new Legacy is a :facepalm: in the interior. The M/T in the GT blows. A bit better interior and a decent M/T and it'd be quite a compelling package.
I don't understand. You can't even get a stick in the Camry.
Quote from: Tave on January 09, 2012, 11:06:43 PM
I don't understand. You can't even get a stick in the Camry.
Stop making sense.
Instead of a Maxima, why don't you get a G37x?
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 11:18:54 PM
Stop making sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjjFETMTxE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjjFETMTxE)
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 09, 2012, 11:45:03 PM
Instead of a Maxima, why don't you get a G37x?
That's a good idea as well. But it seemsCougs has his heart set on a boring-mobile.
I like the G37 but not the hugest fan of Nissan/Infiniti. Would go Acura TL way before a G37.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2012, 08:08:49 PM
I like the G37 but not the hugest fan of Nissan/Infiniti. Would go Acura TL way before a G37.
:nutty:
I don't totally get the dash-stroking that disqualifies the Leg GT. It has a vastly more effective enthusiast aftermarket base. Buy one, go to Cobb Tuning and buy an Accessport to gain roughly 40hp and 70ft/lbs over stock. Install sway bars and shifter bushings. Proceed to dominate.
I personally have no gripes about the Subaru 6spd; it's at least a mechanical linkage which to me feels infinitely better vs the cable operated video-game shifters in most other cars.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 09, 2012, 11:45:03 PM
Instead of a Maxima, why don't you get a G37x?
Doesn't like Nissan/Infinitis. Also, too engaging/fun to drive.
Cougs, were you raised Catholic?
I don't see how there isn't a better fun/practical compromise out there than a Camry.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 12, 2012, 09:15:32 AM
I don't see how there isn't a better fun/practical compromise out there than a Camry.
There isn't. Only because Cougs had his mind made up before starting the thread.
Quote from: S204STi on January 11, 2012, 11:20:49 PM
I don't totally get the dash-stroking that disqualifies the Leg GT. It has a vastly more effective enthusiast aftermarket base. Buy one, go to Cobb Tuning and buy an Accessport to gain roughly 40hp and 70ft/lbs over stock. Install sway bars and shifter bushings. Proceed to dominate.
I personally have no gripes about the Subaru 6spd; it's at least a mechanical linkage which to me feels infinitely better vs the cable operated video-game shifters in most other cars.
The interior struck me wrong in a big way. For example, the backs of the front seats are completely covered in a monolithic hard plastic shell. I really, really don't like the dash or gauges either. It's also expensive - the base model is $32k, and with nav it's $34k. After driving the Legacy GT the Camry SE is a rather large upgrade in refinement, and get the two on a track and the Camry SE doesn't lose by much.
The Legacy GT 6sp M/T is different than the STi 6sp M/T. The latter is much more precise. Even the WRX's 5sp M/T is a notably better transmission. I ain't too much of a M/T snob having owned in the past anything from a '70s Dodge Power Wagon to a Tacoma, but there were some issues with rev matching downshifts and quick upshifts. Perusing road tests confirmed my experience.
Note: the Legacy GT I drove was MY2010. Some of these issues, most notably the seats' hard plastic shell (by far my biggest gripe, in addition to being not very good seats), may have been addressed in NY2012. Problem is no dealer in my area has a 2012 GT on the lot...
I've never liked Subaru M/Ts that much, but why is that a concern of yours if you're planning to purchase an automatic transmission anyway?
Quote from: Tave on January 12, 2012, 09:42:27 AM
I've never liked Subaru M/Ts that much, but why is that a concern of yours if you're planning to purchase an automatic transmission anyway?
Any excuse is a good excuse.
It's okay; some people just aren't good at driving.
I'd say the enthusiasts choice between the non-lux midsizers is still the Legacy, but whatev.
Quote from: Tave on January 12, 2012, 09:42:27 AM
I've never liked Subaru M/Ts that much, but why is that a concern of yours if you're planning to purchase an automatic transmission anyway?
Watch yer premise.
Quote from: S204STi on January 12, 2012, 10:48:17 AM
I'd say the enthusiasts choice between the non-lux midsizers is still the Legacy, but whatev.
CC, or does that count as a lux midsizer?
I just don't get it. I'd sooner buy a Honda Odyssey than a Camry. And that's not meant as a joke or a smart ass comment. If you're gonna get an appliance go all out.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 12, 2012, 01:33:02 PM
CC, or does that count as a lux midsizer?
Cue rant on supposed "unreliability" in German cars...
Why buy the v6 camry... How often in the real world can you really use the extra power it has over the 4 banger
Let him feel like a big man. V6 Camry was Lester's dream car in American Beauty, remember?
I would have to be convinced of the CC's reliability, which I decidedly am not. 170k miles of almost trouble free miles in the previous car and 150k absolutely trouble free miles in the current car is a streak I intend to extend.
BTW, please italicize movie titles - that sort of Internetry burns my eyes. And no, Lester's midlife ride was a 2nd gen Trans Am (apropos to the diversion, my first car was a 2nd gen Camaro).
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2012, 07:17:54 PM
I would have to be convinced of the CC's reliability, which I decidedly am not. 170k miles of almost trouble free miles in the previous car and 150k absolutely trouble free miles in the current car is a streak I intend to extend.
BTW, please italicize movie titles - that sort of Internetry burns my eyes. And no, Lester's midlife ride was a 2nd gen Trans Am (apropos to the diversion, my first car was a 2nd gen Camaro).
Why not an S8? I remember being a the main car in Ronin.
BMW 7-series? I remember that being a stellar car in the Transporter.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 12, 2012, 07:22:20 PM
Why not an S8? I remember being a the main car in Ronin.
BMW 7-series? I remember that being a stellar car in the Transporter.
Oh, man, you just set me up for a grand salami...
Anyone? Anyone? Anyone care to take a swing?
I dunno, I think Cougs needs something even softer. The old cop car in The Blues Brothers looked pretty cushy, and it had the cop engine, cop tires, cop suspension, etc. Bound to be reliable.
I think Cougs needs to put his money where his mouth is and buy a GM product.
Like the Camaro used in Transformers!
I think I'm going to finance, maybe even lease.
Quote from: Rupert on January 12, 2012, 08:34:28 PM
Like the Camaro used in Transformers!
Or a Malibu, or a Cruze, or any of the others he keeps praising.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
I think I'm going to finance, maybe even lease.
ATS. Just do it, man.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2012, 08:49:26 PM
Or a Malibu, or a Cruze, or any of the others he keeps praising.
You're missing the joke, like Donny in The Big Lebowski.
How come you don't roll on Saturday, Walter?
Shut the fuck up Mark!
You're out of your element!
Phone's ringing, Dude.
God, that was a fucking bad movie.
Yes it was. It had some funny scenes but it was not good at all.
You guys are squares. That's one of the few movies I can watch more than once.
"VE BELIEVE IN NOZZING"
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 13, 2012, 08:32:12 AM
You guys are squares. That's one of the few movies I can watch more than once.
"VE BELIEVE IN NOZZING"
If a movie could have Tourette's, it would be the Big Lebowski. It was the "WHAT!?" and "I'M RICK JAMES BITCH!" of the pre-Chappelle Show era. SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY WHAT OKAY YEAH SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY I'M RICK JAMES BITCH RICK JAMES RICK JAMES SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY.
It was garbage.
I thought it was decently funny, but nowhere near funny enough to attain its cult status.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26343.msg1648800#msg1648800 date=1326469505
If a movie could have Tourette's, it would be the Big Lebowski. It was the "WHAT!?" and "I'M RICK JAMES BITCH!" of the pre-Chappelle Show era. SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY WHAT OKAY YEAH SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY I'M RICK JAMES BITCH RICK JAMES RICK JAMES SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY.
It was garbage.
But... that's part of what made it great. Don't you understand that?
I enjoy it. It's a good time.
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2012, 08:45:05 AM
If a movie could have Tourette's, it would be the Big Lebowski. It was the "WHAT!?" and "I'M RICK JAMES BITCH!" of the pre-Chappelle Show era. SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY WHAT OKAY YEAH SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY I'M RICK JAMES BITCH RICK JAMES RICK JAMES SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNY.
It was garbage.
(http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/808/excellent.gif)
A++++ comment, would buy again
Quote from: GoCougs on January 12, 2012, 07:17:54 PM
I would have to be convinced of the CC's reliability, which I decidedly am not. 170k miles of almost trouble free miles in the previous car and 150k absolutely trouble free miles in the current car is a streak I intend to extend.
I feel the purported "reliability" of Camcords would be tempered by the insurance and medical bills that would result from me crashing it when I fell asleep while driving it out of pure boredom...
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 13, 2012, 08:32:12 AM
You guys are squares. That's one of the few movies I can watch more than once.
"VE BELIEVE IN NOZZING"
Based on the movies Raza and esp SVT666 do like, I take their opinion as a ringing endorsement.
Lebowski has some of the best repeat viewing value out there.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 13, 2012, 08:51:11 AM
I thought it was decently funny, but nowhere near funny enough to attain its cult status.
You don't know what cult status means, do you?
Quote from: TurboDan on January 13, 2012, 11:21:16 AM
I feel the purported "reliability" of Camcords would be tempered by the insurance and medical bills that would result from me crashing it when I fell asleep while driving it out of pure boredom...
The new Camry SE V6 has paddle shifters and rev matching downshifting.
I can't sit through The Big Lebowski. Ugh. Also, please stop ruining my thread.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 13, 2012, 11:34:06 AM
You don't know what cult status means, do you?
You're right, I phrased that incorrectly. What I meant was that the movie wasn't bizarre or notably different in any way that I could see someone REALLY loving it or hating it.
I created a new thread in GT
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2012, 11:39:09 AM
The new Camry SE V6 has paddle shifters and rev matching downshifting.
I bet it will still shift automatically 2000 RPM before redline in "manual mode", and more importantly you won't care.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 13, 2012, 12:48:58 PM
I bet it will still shift automatically 2000 RPM before redline in "manual mode", and more importantly you won't care.
It does not do that. However, it will upshift automatically near red line in manual mode...
I'd rather it held the gear even at redline. But it's not a track toy, so it doesn't see the need for that.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 13, 2012, 11:30:41 AM
Based on the movies Raza and esp SVT666 do like, I take their opinion as a ringing endorsement.
Lebowski has some of the best repeat viewing value out there.
You like The Big Lebowski? I never would have guessed. I just assumed that was your name.
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2012, 01:35:01 PM
You like The Big Lebowski? I never would have guessed. I just assumed that was your name.
I like just about all coen bros movies.
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
God, that was a fucking bad movie.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
Quote from: 93JC on January 13, 2012, 02:06:23 PM
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
WHAT? YEAH! OKAY.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2012, 12:54:15 PM
It does not do that. However, it will upshift automatically near red line in manual mode...
Why are we continuing this charade. Just buy the Camry.
Quote from: Raza on January 13, 2012, 02:12:19 PM
WHAT? YEAH! OKAY.
Seriously though, how come you don't like
The Big Lebowski?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 13, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Why are we continuing this charade. Just buy the Camry.
What have you decided to buy?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
What have you decided to buy?
Why does he have to have a car in order to be successful?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
What have you decided to buy?
See, this is what I'm talking about. This shit's straight out of the 3rd grade. You can do so much better than this kind of garbage, I've seen it.
Cougs has been banging too many high level CEO chicks to have any energy left to make witty comebacks on the 'SPIN.
Oh, I don't think that was too mean or weak. Most notably, look at the vitriol he's thrown me in numerous General Talk threads of late. That's the worst I've ever returned, which in comparison is a flower scented bouquet of joy and happiness wrapped with red velvet bow.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that his vitriol had at least something to do with the subject at hand, as opposed to a context-less ad hominem (what you've used here). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 13, 2012, 06:35:36 PM
I'm going to go ahead and assume that his vitriol had at least something to do with the subject at hand, as opposed to a context-less ad hominem (what you've used here). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe, but these things tend to organically transmutate across the ether.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 13, 2012, 06:38:36 PM
Maybe, but these things tend to organically transmutate across the ether.
My man, you're slipping.
I dont need to own a car to see through this meaningless dance. Cougs says he wants something fun but closes all the doors that don't lead to a Camry V6. Seriously why continue the thread? Buy the car you want and keep stepping. Youre not gonna convince anyone here.
Mods, can we please move this thread to mainstreamers?
I don't mean to go all shaman, but Camry se v6 ain't fast lane.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 13, 2012, 09:42:57 PM
Camry se v6 ain't fast lane.
/cue 0-60 times posted by Cougs
Camry V6 is faster to 60 than any of the unfortunate vehicles driven by you welfare state serfs. And with paddle shifters?, a sport tuned suspension?, and racy body cladding?, it will deliver thrills like no Camry before.
Seriously I'm wondering if he was paid to do this.
Suggestions:
Second-generation Mazda 6 V6 - definitely tends towards the sport-handling end of the spectrum and is now on par with the size of the Camry/Accord
New VW Passat with the VR6 - somewhat softer than the Accord/Mazda6, but again, larger than its predecessor.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 13, 2012, 06:42:54 PM
My man, you're slipping.
My Internetry is most def intact.
Simply look at the number of 'SPINners lining up to take a shot.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 14, 2012, 07:17:05 AM
Camry V6 is faster to 60 than any of the unfortunate vehicles driven by you welfare state serfs. And with paddle shifters?, a sport tuned suspension?, and racy body cladding?, it will deliver thrills like no Camry before.
Seriously I'm wondering if he was paid to do this.
Welfare state surfs generally don't have cars.
[/couldn't resist]
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on January 14, 2012, 07:25:08 AM
Suggestions:
Second-generation Mazda 6 V6 - definitely tends towards the sport-handling end of the spectrum and is now on par with the size of the Camry/Accord
New VW Passat with the VR6 - somewhat softer than the Accord/Mazda6, but again, larger than its predecessor.
It'll be a new car or close to it, and the range is quite literally spanning from a GTI to a 911 Carerra 4S.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 12, 2012, 09:15:32 AM
I don't see how there isn't a better fun/practical compromise out there than a Camry.
:hesaid:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2012, 08:09:24 AM
Welfare state surfs generally don't have cars.
[/couldn't resist]
I don't think you know anything about welfare state "surfs". Middle class mommy and daddy paid for your middle class college so you could feel smart and get your middle class job and live your sheltered middle class bubble with your Ayn Rand books and Internetery.
Anyway, many welfare folks drive clapped out V6 Camcords, Tauruses, Luminas, and Windstars.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 14, 2012, 08:19:06 AM
I don't think you know anything about welfare state "surfs". Middle class mommy and daddy paid for your middle class college so you could feel smart and get your middle class job and live your sheltered middle class bubble with your Ayn Rand books and Internetery.
Anyway, many welfare folks drive clapped out V6 Camcords, Tauruses, Luminas, and Windstars.
Don't forget White Privilege; benefited immensely I did.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2012, 08:09:24 AM
Welfare state surfs generally don't have cars.
[/couldn't resist]
1, serfs, 2 if this was a dig at me, lol.
I just want honesty. Lol @ the tease of your "span". You know damn well it will be a cold day in hell before you buy anything German, let alone a Porsche 911. This thread is "The Intrepid" level trolling.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2012, 08:13:46 AM
It'll be a new car or close to it, and the range is quite literally spanning from a GTI to a 911 Carerra 4S.
Oh, ok then. I'll get back to you when you've got the choices narrowed down - I thought based on the current discussion that you were shooting for a mid-size sedan.
How would a C4S handle the bike, etc?
Bullshit you seriously considered that for 10 seconds.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on January 14, 2012, 08:38:04 AM
Oh, ok then. I'll get back to you when you've got the choices narrowed down - I thought based on the current discussion that you were shooting for a mid-size sedan.
The convo organically went that way; I didn't necessarily drive it there.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 14, 2012, 08:34:40 AM
1, serfs, 2 if this was a dig at me, lol.
I just want honesty. Lol @ the tease of your "span". You know damn well it will be a cold day in hell before you buy anything German, let alone a Porsche 911. This thread is "The Intrepid" level trolling.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 14, 2012, 08:40:55 AM
How would a C4S handle the bike, etc?
Bullshit you seriously considered that for 10 seconds.
The C4S can be outfitted with a custom trailer hitch (for a hitch bike rack); wouldn't do that though. I would keep the Accord as a (relative) beater for skiing, biking, hiking, etc. Ha, ha, wouldn't exactly fit the neighborhood though and still not a fan of having two cars.
My friend (who recently bought the 996 Turbo) and I went shopping earlier this week at the local Porsche dealer (he hates Japanese cars). They have a number of '09-'10 C4S examples available (mostly with PDK though, which I don't think I'm interested in).
If you're going to consider a C4S, you might as well consider an R8 as well. :devil:
Cool your jets... nobody was questioning your ability to pay, just your ability to buy anything besides a Camry.
Based off your first post it sounded like you were set on replacing the Accord- why invest in winter tires and all that for a significantly more expensive 2nd car? Why consider factors like back seat space, or even sedans at all if you're going to have the Accord? You're all over the place. You should figure out what exactly you are looking to do and then go from there. Right now it just seems like you're talking to talk.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 14, 2012, 09:17:15 AM
If you're going to consider a C4S, you might as well consider an R8 as well. :devil:
The C4S is vastly more attractive to me; the R8 just really isn't all that.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 14, 2012, 09:20:34 AM
Cool your jets... nobody was questioning your ability to pay, just your ability to buy anything besides a Camry.
Based off your first post it sounded like you were set on replacing the Accord- why invest in winter tires and all that for a significantly more expensive 2nd car? Why consider factors like back seat space, or even sedans at all if you're going to have the Accord? You're all over the place. You should figure out what exactly you are looking to do and then go from there. Right now it just seems like you're talking to talk.
I would not get winter tires if I were to have a sporty second car.
"All over the place" is the nature of looking for a new car.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 14, 2012, 08:34:40 AM
1, serfs, 2 if this was a dig at me, lol.
I just want honesty. Lol @ the tease of your "span". You know damn well it will be a cold day in hell before you buy anything German, let alone a Porsche 911. This thread is "The Intrepid" level trolling.
He probably wouldn't lie to us about what he was driving, though.
I wasn't doubting ability to afford, but based on your own parameters and aversion to 2 cars, it doesn't fit.
Don't forget his aversion to leather seats, sunroofs, or anything that attracts attention.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2012, 08:13:46 AM
It'll be a new car or close to it, and the range is quite literally spanning from a GTI to a 911 Carerra 4S.
Bullshit.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 14, 2012, 10:00:15 AM
Don't forget his aversion to leather seats, sunroofs, or anything that attracts attention.
Wouldn't that rule out pretty much every car he's listed, including the Camry V6?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 14, 2012, 10:04:36 AM
Wouldn't that rule out pretty much every car he's listed, including the Camry V6?
No - cloth + somewhat pseudo leather is standard (at least on the SE).
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2012, 10:55:24 AM
No - cloth + somewhat pseudo leather is standard (at least on the SE).
BMW calls it 'leatherette.' I guess it's a fancy name for vinyl. For an unsophistocated rube like me, it's hard to tell the difference.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 14, 2012, 08:09:24 AM
Welfare state surfs generally don't have cars.
[/couldn't resist]
Yes they do. Otherwise they would just be losers who don't know how to work the system so they can afford the car payment and still get the loser taxpayers to pay for their food, rent, even cellphone!
I can't decide if this thread or Raza's thread is more funny/pathetic. Both of you are gonna buy the same thing you already have.
I think Cougs wants the respect of having a cool car more though. Raza already has the Boxster on his car resume and drives something relatively enthusiastic.
People who buy fun cars don't do so by consensus...
The Boxster wasn't his car; he just got to drive it.
Jacked up, gasoline-burning pickup truck with "WHO IS JOHN GALT?" bumper stickers, bypassed catalytic converters and vertical exhaust pipes that belch out a thick smoky tribute to Man's dominion over nature at every stoplight.
Quote from: Laconian on January 14, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
Jacked up, gasoline-burning pickup truck with "WHO IS JOHN GALT?" bumper stickers, bypassed catalytic converters and vertical exhaust pipes that belch out a thick smoky tribute to Man's dominion over nature at every stoplight.
YES
Serf's up! The welfare's fine in KALIFORNIA!
Quote from: Rupert on January 14, 2012, 01:09:26 PM
I can't decide if this thread or Raza's thread is more funny/pathetic. Both of you are gonna buy the same thing you already have.
I think at this point the most exciting outcome is raza gets a Camry SE V6 and Coug's gets a Jetta.
:lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on January 14, 2012, 01:56:52 PM
I think at this point the most exciting outcome is raza gets a Camry SE V6 and Coug's gets a Jetta.
:clap:
Quote from: Lebowski on January 14, 2012, 08:40:55 AM
How would a C4S handle the bike, etc?
Bullshit you seriously considered that for 10 seconds.
I saw a 911 with a bike rack the other day. It was awesome, even though I mildly disapprove of bicycles, but I couldn't get a picture.
Quote from: Rupert on January 14, 2012, 01:36:08 PM
The Boxster wasn't his car; he just got to drive it.
Legally it was my car. I just didn't pay for it. By those criteria, the Passat and E320 weren't mine either.
I always got the impression that your dad or whoever was the main driver.
Quote from: Rupert on January 15, 2012, 11:45:58 AM
I always got the impression that your dad or whoever was the main driver.
Yeah, that's what I thought. You mentioned that it was traded in for your dad's Lexus, which would make me think it was his car before yours.
Quote from: Raza on January 15, 2012, 07:48:16 AM
I saw a 911 with a bike rack the other day. It was awesome, even though I mildly disapprove of bicycles, but I couldn't get a picture.
I was passed once in VT by a 930 Turbo with a Thule roof rack and an MTB on top. I LOLed (in a good sense).
Fuck, if I had money out my ass, I'd equip a 997 Turbo to take me to the slopes.
Maybe I'm insane, but using such a nice car like that is inappropriate if not disrespectful, IMO.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 15, 2012, 01:35:15 PM
Maybe I'm insane, but using such a nice car like that is inappropriate if not disrespectful, IMO.
It's not a limited production car, why the hell not?
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 15, 2012, 01:37:17 PM
It's not a limited production car, why the hell not?
Because it's a Porsche.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 15, 2012, 01:38:49 PM
....and?
It's too nice for those things; IMO. I suppose it's not a big deal to go up a trail to a parking lot, but I would rather use something a bit more mainstream and not as nice. Like 5-series.
911s are great as ski cars and cycling cars, at least historically. Durable, lots of traction (in the days before everyone had a 4WD truck), handle gravel roads well.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 15, 2012, 01:32:17 PM
Fuck, if I had money out my ass, I'd equip a 997 Turbo to take me to the slopes.
I actually saw a stupid magazine article where they tested that hypothesis. Conclusion was that the 911 is fucking terrible in the snow. The tires are much too wide and there isn't nearly enough ground clearance.
Anecdotal evidence confirms this, since I saw a California douchebag wreck his Carrera 4 at the top of my hill on a day where everything spontaneously glazed over with ice. (Accord w/chains wins the day!)
When I lived in Calgary I saw lots of 911s in the snow.
Older 911s are better. More clearance, skinnier tires.
I remember an article in Road and Track when the 996 Carrera 4 came out, where they lifted the suspension, put meaty tires on it, and then drove it in some legitimately gnarly place like Utah. It did pretty good.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 15, 2012, 01:35:15 PM
Maybe I'm insane, but using such a nice car like that is inappropriate if not disrespectful, IMO.
If it's not a limited edition car, who cares?
Cars are meant to be driven anyways. I don't understand people who excessively baby their cars.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 15, 2012, 01:38:49 PM
....and?
2o6 would get a 911 and never rev it past 3,000 RPM, like an esteemed ex-member here used to do.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 15, 2012, 03:03:52 PM
2o6 would get a 911 and never rev it past 3,000 RPM, like an esteemed ex-member here used to do.
He takes his gimpy Focus up to V-max on a regular basis.
Quote from: Laconian on January 15, 2012, 03:10:45 PM
He takes his gimpy Focus up to V-max on a regular basis.
His Focus is not a nice car, so it does not deserve his respect.
Quote from: Laconian on January 15, 2012, 02:52:42 PM
I actually saw a stupid magazine article where they tested that hypothesis. Conclusion was that the 911 is fucking terrible in the snow. The tires are much too wide and there isn't nearly enough ground clearance.
Anecdotal evidence confirms this, since I saw a California douchebag wreck his Carrera 4 at the top of my hill on a day where everything spontaneously glazed over with ice. (Accord w/chains wins the day!)
I'm with Rupert here: Older 911s were probably much better.
I've driven a hopped-up Beetle (with probably more power than most '80s 911s) in the snow, and it rocked.
Except for the shitty heater. :lol:
My dad drove a Beetle in New England during his teens and 20's, and the snowstorms just sounded like hell... His windshield wouldn't stop fogging up and icing over.
Quote from: Laconian on January 15, 2012, 03:19:12 PM
Except for the shitty heater. :lol:
My dad drove a Beetle in New England during his teens and 20's, and the snowstorms just sounded like hell... His windshield wouldn't stop fogging up and icing over.
I used a two-burner Coleman camp stove duct taped to the passenger floorboard.
Ralph Nader would not have approved.
Quote from: Laconian on January 15, 2012, 03:10:45 PM
He takes his gimpy Focus up to V-max on a regular basis.
I V-maxed it last week. Still had a lot of pull left.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 15, 2012, 03:02:46 PM
If it's not a limited edition car, who cares?
Cars are meant to be driven anyways. I don't understand people who excessively baby their cars.
Driving a Porsche in the snow (or mud) seems dumb.
It's not.
I woulsnt do a Porsche in the snow because 4wd Porsches are pointless
Unless you want a really awesome snow car. :huh:
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 15, 2012, 05:32:18 PM
I woulsnt do a Porsche in the snow because 4wd Porsches are pointless
I can't attest to how they are in snow, but they pull like a train off the line precisely because of that pointless 4WD.
You can claim it's un-Porsche, but 4WD seems pretty effective.
Quote from: Rupert on January 15, 2012, 05:49:31 PM
You can claim it's un-Porsche, but 4WD seems pretty effective.
After the Cayenne and The Panamera, all wheel drive is the least of my concerns in that arena.
You mean after the 928 and 924?
:lol:
Quote from: Rupert on January 15, 2012, 05:51:31 PM
You mean after the 928 and 924?
:lol:
both cars were still essentially sports/GT cars first and foremost. They went about it different ways, bt I don't think there's anything wrong with either.
I'd still rock a 928 if I had the chance.
I know, I just think the "real Porsche" debate is hilarious (as a driver of one of them OMG watercooled! cars).
Quote from: Rupert on January 15, 2012, 06:00:12 PM
I know, I just think the "real Porsche" debate is hilarious (as a driver of one of them OMG watercooled! cars).
I'd agree.
Volkswagens were air-cooled because most Germans at the time did not have garages to keep them in in the winter, and anti-freeze was at that time a relatively expensive commodity.
The first Porsches were essentially lightweight stripped down Volkswagens. There's no reasons now, 70 years later to continue a tradition that was started for completely irrelevant reasons.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 15, 2012, 05:32:18 PM
I woulsnt do a Porsche in the snow because 4wd Porsches are pointless
Wat
911 TT is pointless? :hammerhead:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 15, 2012, 06:04:00 PM
I'd agree.
Volkswagens were air-cooled because most Germans at the time did not have garages to keep them in in the winter, and anti-freeze was at that time a relatively expensive commodity.
The first Porsches were essentially lightweight stripped down Volkswagens. There's no reasons now, 70 years later to continue a tradition that was started for completely irrelevant reasons.
Indeed. I really like the air cooled 911s, more than the water cooled cars, but I like anachronistic things. There is something cool about an engine that needs no radiator, ya know?
But if making the Panamera and the Cayenne allow them to continue to exist and continue to make the Cayman, Boxster, and 911, then I can fully support them. And, of course, the front engine Porsches are all very good cars (er, maybe less so the 924), and all very much in the right spirit.
Quote from: Rupert on January 16, 2012, 01:36:08 AM
Indeed. I really like the air cooled 911s, more than the water cooled cars, but I like anachronistic things. There is something cool about an engine that needs no radiator, ya know?
But if making the Panamera and the Cayenne allow them to continue to exist and continue to make the Cayman, Boxster, and 911, then I can fully support them. And, of course, the front engine Porsches are all very good cars (er, maybe less so the 924), and all very much in the right spirit.
No radiator, water pump, oil filter, timing chain, power steering or power brakes. No windshield washer sprayer motor.
One accesory drive belt that runs both the alternator and the cooling fan.
And three parking brake levers...
Waitaminute, what car are we talking about, here? I've never heard of a car with three parking brake levers; or am I just not up on the old 911 lingo?
Quote from: Rupert on January 15, 2012, 02:59:13 PM
Older 911s are better. More clearance, skinnier tires.
I remember an article in Road and Track when the 996 Carrera 4 came out, where they lifted the suspension, put meaty tires on it, and then drove it in some legitimately gnarly place like Utah. It did pretty good.
Wheels did exactly the same thing in the Australian Outback. Turns out a 911 makes an excellent dune buggy.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 15, 2012, 01:23:27 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. You mentioned that it was traded in for your dad's Lexus, which would make me think it was his car before yours.
His money paid for it. He offered it to me first, but I couldn't manage the entire payment on my own.