Just wanted to give a shout out to Audi for finally offering the A4 3.2 with 6-speed manual. I think its a shame that most of the major rags have already done their "sport sedan" test either using the A4 2.0T or 3.2 automatic.
Anyway I can't wait to see a review. It slots in nicely between the A4 2.0T 6MT and S4. :praise:
QuoteJust wanted to give a shout out to Audi for finally offering the A4 3.2 with 6-speed manual. I think its a shame that most of the major rags have already done their "sport sedan" test either using the A4 2.0T or 3.2 automatic.
Anyway I can't wait to see a review. It slots in nicely between the A4 2.0T 6MT and S4. :praise:
What kind of numbers do you think it will be able to put up?
Off the top of my head, the 3.2 puts out 255 hp and about 250 lb-ft torque with a nice flat band. The 3.2 auto is in the low 7 sec 0-60, so I'd guess this would be knocking on 6.0 sec, and probably a little over 14 sec 1/4 mi. Looks like my new favorite next car may have just arrived! B) Tight quarters compared to the A6, but there are always trade-offs.
I would guess low sixes as well. The 2.0T seems to do higher 6's or low 7's and this car has a good 25% more HP and probably only an extra ~100 lbs to carry around (assuming the difference in weight between the 2.0T auto and 2.0T manual is the same as the difference in 3.2 form.
Oh my! With Quattro as well? This throws a whole monkey in my plans.
If only we had the 3 door Sportback model.
I wish it was RWD.
QuoteI wish it was RWD.
We know.
QuoteQuoteI wish it was RWD.
We know.
:lol:
So when is this happening? I've been seeing commercials for the 3.2 DSG for a year almost and it's not even on Audi's website yet.
QuoteSo when is this happening? I've been seeing commercials for the 3.2 DSG for a year almost and it's not even on Audi's website yet.
There is no DSG as far as I can tell, just the 6-speed manual and 6-speed automatic.
I think its as of the 2006 models (now). It listed on both Audi's website and Edmunds.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI wish it was RWD.
We know.
:lol:
:rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI wish it was RWD.
We know.
:lol:
:rolleyes:
<_<
QuoteQuoteSo when is this happening? I've been seeing commercials for the 3.2 DSG for a year almost and it's not even on Audi's website yet.
There is no DSG as far as I can tell, just the 6-speed manual and 6-speed automatic.
I think its as of the 2006 models (now). It listed on both Audi's website and Edmunds.
You never saw those commercials for the "Stolen A3"? A red A3 3.2 DSG Quattro with two SD card slots?
QuoteQuoteQuoteSo when is this happening?? I've been seeing commercials for the 3.2 DSG for a year almost and it's not even on Audi's website yet.
There is no DSG as far as I can tell, just the 6-speed manual and 6-speed automatic.
I think its as of the 2006 models (now). It listed on both Audi's website and Edmunds.
You never saw those commercials for the "Stolen A3"? A red A3 3.2 DSG Quattro with two SD card slots?
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the A4.
You do realize this thread is about the A4 and not the A3 right? The A4 previously was only available in automatic with the 3.1L V6, but now its available with the 6-speed manual.
As for the A3 my understanding is that it will be available in 3.2 DSG/Quattro form, but the 2.0T won' get quattro in NA yet (I am fairly certain its already available in 2.0T/Quatro in Europe).
Oh my...this whole time I thought we were talking about the A3.
In any case, it still throws a whole monkey into my plan.
This car just shot up to #1 on my list.
QuoteOh my...this whole time I thought we were talking about the A3.
In any case, it still throws a whole monkey into my plan.
Read the title man. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteOh my...this whole time I thought we were talking about the A3.
In any case, it still throws a whole monkey into my plan.
Read the title man. :rolleyes:
Yeah, it was partially a misread and partially being hopeful. I never thought we'd get the A4 3.2 Quattro with the 6 speed. I was convinced that ship had sailed.
Raza, i thought you were more of a BMW guy.
QuoteRaza, i thought you were more of a BMW guy.
Yeah, well...I care about what's the best value I can get. If the A4 comes as close to the BMW as people have said, than the other things that it has that the 330i doesn't (like more style, a better interior, AWD) pushes it over as a better car to own. The 330i is still the most rational choice (that and the G35) but the A4 3.2 is now the emotional choice. And I'm feeling emotional right now.
QuoteQuoteRaza, i thought you were more of a BMW guy.
Yeah, well...I care about what's the best value I can get. If the A4 comes as close to the BMW as people have said, than the other things that it has that the 330i doesn't (like more style, a better interior, AWD) pushes it over as a better car to own. The 330i is still the most rational choice (that and the G35) but the A4 3.2 is now the emotional choice. And I'm feeling emotional right now.
I'd say the BMW has more style and has a better inteiro, AND it's RWD.
I've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
QuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
QuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
A. You've never owned a car.
B. You don't know what you're missing.
QuoteI'd say the BMW has more style and has a better inteiro, AND it's RWD.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer RWD...but just as many people will prefer AWD. You constant mentioning of RWD is pretty annoying, and is trolling IMHO. At this point all you are doing is annoying people.
As for the style and interior, its personal preference IMHO. The old 3-series interior was good quality, but more functional than stylish. Th new 3er has enough style thrown in to make it compaable to the best. That being said I still thik the A4 interior is probably the best in this class. Exterior style is totally about personal preference. Niether has a "clear" victory. In fact pretty much any car in this class is handsome enough to make any choice about personal preference.
Personally I think the 9-3 Aero is the best looking car in this class, but the 3er and A4 are a close 2nd and 3rd (and could change places on any given day depending on my mood).
The IS looks to be a really nice entry, and is probably the best styled
"sports sedan" from Japan IMHO. I like the G35 coupe, but I am not a fan of the G35 sedan in the least.
The CTS has nice style from the outside, but its interior is dated. Like the G35 sedan and TL its also too big for my tastes.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD.? I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
A. You've never owned a car.
B. You don't know what you're missing.
COUldn't agree more. Variety is the spice of life. Even though I think the E39 325i would have been a better car than my A4, I am glad I got the A4 simply because its nice to experience something a little different. I had never owned an AWD car and realy bought into the critisism that AWD had all the faults of FWD and no real benefit. Having alot of experience now with AWD I would say it really is close to RWD on the fun factor. I can't swing my tail-end out of course, but there is something gratifying about having a car that reacts better through a turn with more gas rather than less.
I also won't rule out FWD for my next car. I don't think its as fun as AWD/RWD but it does have other benefits: Including packaging and you tend to get "more car" for your money (see the Acura TL and Saab 9-3 Aero...36k will get you into either car fully loaded with Nav and a powerful engine but in an Audi/BMW you are only getting the basics of a premium car or settling for a smaller engine).
For me, this time, I have ruled out FWD. I want something either RWD or AWD, because I want something that I can modify and have the handling prowess of a car that has power going to the rear wheels.
But, that in no way means I wouldn't consider a FWD car again in the future. I'd love to have something like an Acura TL, Saab 9-3 or 9-5 as a daily driver with something that I can break loose at a track as a weekend car. I mean every time I see the TL with the 6 speed I get all squirrely and want to buy one.
Besides, being fast with FWD isn't impossible, it just takes more effort. I've gotten the back end of the Passat out on several occasions, sans handbrake even.
Raza- when are you getting another car, isnt the Passat about a year old?
I'm thinking this December before I move away again. Since I'm moving to the snow capital of PA, AWD might come in handy.
Parental assistance or do you hafta pay it on your own? And do you get to sell the Passat and keep the change?
QuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
QuoteParental assistance or do you hafta pay it on your own? And do you get to sell the Passat and keep the change?
1. He is 19 and is looking at $40,000+ cars, take a guess ;) (spoiled SOB... ;) :lol:). 2. No, the Passat is leased.
Fuckin' A life just ain't fair!
QuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD.? I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
How about you stop with all of the "FWD sucks" BS? :rolleyes:
QuoteHow about you stop with all of the "FWD sucks" BS? :rolleyes:
It's NOT BS. There aren't ANY advantages of FWD over RWD.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
RWD is fine in snow if you know how to drive properly in it. No offense, but I would be willing to doubt that you have any such ability.
QuoteQuoteHow about you stop with all of the "FWD sucks" BS? :rolleyes:
It's NOT BS. There aren't ANY advantages of FWD over RWD.
Of course there are. Space efficiency is a big one.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
RWD is fine in snow if you know how to drive properly in it. No offense, but I would be willing to doubt that you have any such ability.
I'm with you. On both accounts.
QuoteQuoteHow about you stop with all of the "FWD sucks" BS? :rolleyes:
It's NOT BS. There aren't ANY advantages of FWD over RWD.
A statement like that is why people think you're 14.
QuoteQuoteQuoteHow about you stop with all of the "FWD sucks" BS? :rolleyes:
It's NOT BS. There aren't ANY advantages of FWD over RWD.
Of course there are. Space efficiency is a big one.
Space efficiency, FF has better static traction than FR, better driveline efficiency (fewer losses), better fuel economy, lower weight...
RWD is generally a better layout for a performance car, but for a commuter vehicle RWD has no advantages over FWD.
And if FWD sucks so much compared to RWD in all situations, then why did an Olds Toronado win its class at the Pikes Peak Hillclimb back in the late 60s?
QuoteQuoteHow about you stop with all of the "FWD sucks" BS? :rolleyes:
It's NOT BS. There aren't ANY advantages of FWD over RWD.
Rag, it's equivilant BS for you to say that FWD has no advantages as it is to say that RWD is terrible in snow. FWD is generally easier to use in snow. RWD takes a little more skill and quite a bit more experience. I'd like to see how you fare a hard winter starting out driving in a RWD vehicle. I'll bet you end up in a ditch. I'm not saying anything against you, but cut the bias crap.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD.? I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
You've obviously never drove in the snow :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD.? I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
You've obviously never drove in the snow :rolleyes:
Whats all this FWD vs RWD in snow arguing? Go the real way, and opt for 4wd :praise: :lol:
FWD is unquestionably better in the snow...
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD. I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
You've obviously never drove in the snow :rolleyes:
Whats all this FWD vs RWD in snow arguing? Go the real way, and opt for 4wd :praise: :lol:
FWD is unquestionably better in the snow...
I don't agree with that, but unlike many (Rag), I've actually had RWD and FWD in bad snowy conditions. I still prefer RWD.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've had RWD, I've had FWD, but I've never had AWD.? I'd get the drivetrain trifecta, and it wouldn't make the 944 Turbo redundant.
Meh. I'm going to go for a record as to never own a FWD or AWD car in my life. :praise:
Thats going to a lot of fun until you get your first snowstorm.
California.
And please, stop with all the 'RWD is bad in snow' bullshit. :rolleyes: <_<
You've obviously never drove in the snow :rolleyes:
Whats all this FWD vs RWD in snow arguing? Go the real way, and opt for 4wd :praise: :lol:
FWD is unquestionably better in the snow...
I don't agree with that, but unlike many (Rag), I've actually had RWD and FWD in bad snowy conditions. I still prefer RWD.
If they are both running similar tires, and its just a question of whether the front or rear wheels are being powered, one will be able to move around in snow with FWD better than with RWD. I'm not talking performance oriented-for a regular commuter, FWD in the snow is much better than RWD.
Well, if there are two cars in my driveway and one is FWD and one is RWD (hypothetically a 2002 E320 and a 2004 Passat GLS) and it's snowing outside, 9 times out of 10 I'd choose the RWD car because I find it easier to drive in snow.
QuoteWell, if there are two cars in my driveway and one is FWD and one is RWD (hypothetically a 2002 E320 and a 2004 Passat GLS) and it's snowing outside, 9 times out of 10 I'd choose the RWD car because I find it easier to drive in snow.
Youre a very strange person :D
You probably can feel like youre in control better because you want to be in control from a "sporty performance" point of view. Yet someone driving a RWD car in the snow (regular person) will feel that its no where near as stable as FWD for regular driving conditions.
QuoteQuoteWell, if there are two cars in my driveway and one is FWD and one is RWD (hypothetically a 2002 E320 and a 2004 Passat GLS) and it's snowing outside, 9 times out of 10 I'd choose the RWD car because I find it easier to drive in snow.
Youre a very strange person :D
You probably can feel like youre in control better because you want to be in control from a "sporty performance" point of view. Yet someone driving a RWD car in the snow (regular person) will feel that its no where near as stable as FWD for regular driving conditions.
It turns much, much better. Unless I was really intent on some handbrake fun, I prefer throttle steer. But I will agree with you that RWD is less stable in snow. That much is true.
QuoteWell, if there are two cars in my driveway and one is FWD and one is RWD (hypothetically a 2002 E320 and a 2004 Passat GLS) and it's snowing outside, 9 times out of 10 I'd choose the RWD car because I find it easier to drive in snow.
Do you have more experience in the snow with RWD, perhaps? Give a RWD vehicle to someone who is used to dealing with them in wintry conditions and is an above average general driver, and they'll do great, generally not needing or appreciating the FWD benefit. There's no question that people who are good with RWD can handle as well in the snow as FWD people, it's just generally easier/more predictable to use FWD.
That may be true. My first car was RWD, so I had two winters with that, and one with the Passat. Though, I found it easier to deal with the E320's throttlesteer than the Passat's understeer, I can understand why an inexperienced driver would blow it with a rear drive car. Then again, they'd also probably blow it on a dry racetrack.
RWD is quite easy to control in snow. Much easier than FWD.
When have you driven in the snow in either vehicle type?
QuoteWhen have you driven in the snow in either vehicle type?
When i was visiting Connecticut in December. :praise: My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. ;) I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh). ;)
QuoteRWD is quite easy to control in snow. Much easier than FWD.
That right there makes it pretty evident that you have minimal experience with RWD in snow.
RWD is known for its instability in snow. I lived with a RWD day in and day out in a part of the country that I can guarantee is snowier than anywhere you've ever lived. And to add to that, a couple of those 5 winters were among the snowiest the area has ever seen (the winter of 03-04 dropped over 180" on the area and was the third snowiest on record). I can tell you from experience, when driving through real amounts snow, slush, ice, snowdrifts, etc... RWD does not like to go straight. You're constantly correcting to keep the tail end in line as the car feels like it's almost alway slightly fishtailing. RWDs love to turn in the snow, though. Many would say they favor turning a little too much. If you suddenly lift or apply throttle in a turn, they want to spin out. So yeah, you can control yaw a bit better with a RWD, but I'm not sure I'd call them easier to control. The first thing I noticed after driving a FWD in a snow storm was that it was much less stressful. The car didn't feel as wishy washy. Of course, it was a bitch to turn since I could no longer rely on my throttle controlled oversteer techniques to compensate for understeer, but that's what the E brake and left-foot braking is for.
QuoteQuoteWhen have you driven in the snow in either vehicle type?
When i was visiting Connecticut in December. :praise: My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. ;) I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh). ;)
On what I'm sure were fairly well plowed roads on a clear day. Try taking a joyride when the snow is falling at over an inch an hour on poorly kept country backroads with snowdrifts thrown into the mix.
"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Doubters. <_< Should i even explain to you guys what i want to say? It'll just get shot down again.
Want to know why?
Too bad, I'm telling you anyways.
1) You're a pro-RWD troll
2) You're wrong
3) You have limited automoticve knowledge and experience
QuoteWant to know why?
Too bad, I'm telling you anyways.
1) You're a pro-RWD troll
2) You're wrong
3) You have limited automoticve knowledge and experience
What's wrong with liking RWD?
I'm not wrong, i drove the car, it's my opinion.
I drove the cars very often, and what are you, some professional driver? :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteWant to know why?
Too bad, I'm telling you anyways.
1) You're a pro-RWD troll
2) You're wrong
3) You have limited automoticve knowledge and experience
What's wrong with liking RWD?
I'm not wrong, i drove the car, it's my opinion.
I drove the cars very often, and what are you, some professional driver? :rolleyes:
No offense, but there are many matters where your opinion is fairly useless, seeing that it isn't based on fact or reason.
Rag ruins another perfectly decent thread. <_<
Back to the car......I like the idea of the 3.2. The added torque alone would sway me.
QuoteRag ruins another perfectly decent thread. <_<
Back to the car......I like the idea of the 3.2. The added torque alone would sway me.
Sure, blame it all on me. :rolleyes: :angry: <_<
Nothing is wrong with liking it. Wanting to have sex with it - that's another issue.
You didn't drive the car "very often". You were visiting relatives on vacation and drove maybe it a few times. It's your opinion? Well we all know how much you like RWD, so in my mind you're either a) lying or B) so enamoured by RWD Corollas that you've convinced yourself otherwise.
Who are we to beleive - MX793 who drove for 2 winters with a 240SX as his main mode of transportation and then moved to a Mazda3 and drove one winter with it or some whiney 17 year old with limited experience and acts like a short-tempered 8 year old?
As for being a driving professional - yes and no. My profession is driving pizzas around, so in that respect I am. But the sleeve of my shirt says I'm only a delivery expert, not preofessional. Maybe I'm both.
QuoteNothing is wrong with liking it. Wanting to have sex with it - that's another issue.
You didn't drive the car "very often". You were visiting relatives on vacation and drove maybe it a few times. It's your opinion? Well we all know how much you like RWD, so in my mind you're either a) lying or B) so enamoured by RWD Corollas that you've convinced yourself otherwise.
Who are we to beleive - MX793 who drove for 2 winters with a 240SX as his main mode of transportation and then moved to a Mazda3 and drove one winter with it or some whiney 17 year old with limited experience and acts like a short-tempered 8 year old?
As for being a driving professional - yes and no. My profession is driving pizzas around, so in that respect I am. But the sleeve of my shirt says I'm only a delivery expert, not preofessional. Maybe I'm both.
ehem, 5 years with the 240SX B)
QuoteNothing is wrong with liking it. Wanting to have sex with it - that's another issue.
You didn't drive the car "very often". You were visiting relatives on vacation and drove maybe it a few times. It's your opinion? Well we all know how much you like RWD, so in my mind you're either a) lying or B) so enamoured by RWD Corollas that you've convinced yourself otherwise.
Who are we to beleive - MX793 who drove for 2 winters with a 240SX as his main mode of transportation and then moved to a Mazda3 and drove one winter with it or some whiney 17 year old with limited experience and acts like a short-tempered 8 year old?
As for being a driving professional - yes and no. My profession is driving pizzas around, so in that respect I am. But the sleeve of my shirt says I'm only a delivery expert, not preofessional. Maybe I'm both.
I dont wanna have sex with RWD. Is that even possible? :blink: :D
For the two weeks i was there, i'd say that i was in teh cars more than i was actually inside his house. And besides, it's my own opinion, ok? You are having a hard time understanding that.
You don't have to believe anyone. It's my own opinion, and MX has his own opinion.
My bad. :P
Quote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
QuoteI dont wanna have sex with RWD. Is that even possible? :blink: :D
For the two weeks i was there, i'd say that i was in teh cars more than i was actually inside his house. And besides, it's my own opinion, ok? You are having a hard time understanding that.
You don't have to believe anyone. It's my own opinion, and MX has his own opinion.
Your opinion? Well we all know how much you like RWD, so in my mind you're either a) lying or B) so enamoured by RWD Corollas that you've convinced yourself otherwise.
I know I don't have to beleive what you're saying, but for some reason I still read your posts and something makes me want to try correct you. Am I wasting my time trying to talk some sense into you?
QuoteQuoteI dont wanna have sex with RWD. Is that even possible? :blink: :D
For the two weeks i was there, i'd say that i was in teh cars more than i was actually inside his house. And besides, it's my own opinion, ok? You are having a hard time understanding that.
You don't have to believe anyone. It's my own opinion, and MX has his own opinion.
Your opinion? Well we all know how much you like RWD, so in my mind you're either a) lying or B) so enamoured by RWD Corollas that you've convinced yourself otherwise.
I know I don't have to beleive what you're saying, but for some reason I still read your posts and something makes me want to try correct you. Am I wasting my time trying to talk some sense into you?
Yes, but you can try. Why is FWD so much better than?
Well, up until recently I've driven a RWD car under the worst conditions on a regular basis. The CVPI of course. All of my personal vehicles have been FWD, 4WD (sequoia) and in the past I've had 2wd pick ups. My opinion is that FWD is better in the snow in almost every instance. RWD is marginal at best even with snow tires.
QuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
It's not, who said "FWD is better than RWD anytime anywhere"?
In your typical winter conditions, FWD is the preffered layout (over RWD) for getting from one place to another in the easiest and hassle-free manner.
QuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
FWD being better than RWD in snow is pretty much general info. Same with rain driving if you don't want to do fun intentional or unintentional manuevers. I try, but can't get my family's FWD cars to oversteer in the rain more than a little bit. It would be easy with RWD OTOH, though unwanted by most people and sometimes unsafe.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
It wasn't snowing, but we ran out right after the snowing stopped and the roads hadn't been cleared yet by the truck thing. I just didn't want visibility issues.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
It wasn't snowing, but we ran out right after the snowing stopped and the roads hadn't been cleared yet by the truck thing. I just didn't want visibility issues.
Under those conditions the snow actually has some traction. Wait until the snow gets compressed into a sheet of ice then come back and give your observation.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
It wasn't snowing, but we ran out right after the snowing stopped and the roads hadn't been cleared yet by the truck thing. I just didn't want visibility issues.
Under those conditions the snow actually has some traction. Wait until the snow gets compressed into a sheet of ice then come back and give your observation.
There wasn't much ice. Only a few patches here and there. I hit one on purpose. It was fun. :praise:
Rag, when you're already in a hole, stop digging.
(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/insurance4.jpg)
You're not making yourself look any better by continuing to spout stupidity.
QuoteRag, when you're already in a hole, stop digging.
(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/insurance4.jpg)
You're not making yourself look any better by continuing to spout stupidity.
WTF? HOw am i being stupid if it's my freakin OPINION that RWD is better in snow than FWD??? :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
It wasn't snowing, but we ran out right after the snowing stopped and the roads hadn't been cleared yet by the truck thing. I just didn't want visibility issues.
Under those conditions the snow actually has some traction. Wait until the snow gets compressed into a sheet of ice then come back and give your observation.
I found things tend to get real interesting right at the point where the snow is just starting to accumulate on the road surface. It becomes a sort of slimy, slushy film that gets quite slick. Like trying to drive on wet clay.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
It wasn't snowing, but we ran out right after the snowing stopped and the roads hadn't been cleared yet by the truck thing. I just didn't want visibility issues.
Under those conditions the snow actually has some traction. Wait until the snow gets compressed into a sheet of ice then come back and give your observation.
I found things tend to get real interesting right at the point where the snow is just starting to accumulate on the road surface. It becomes a sort of slimy, slushy film that gets quite slick. Like trying to drive on wet clay.
Good job. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote"When i was visiting Connecticut in December. huh.gif My dad's college friend is there, so we went there last December to visit him during Winter Break. wink.gif I drove his Corolla (RWD), and his Sentra (duh)."
And you think that brief and undoubtedly limited experience in an old Corolla and an old Sentra is enough for you to be able to make such an all-encompassing statement? :rolleyes:
Hey, it was an '03 Sentra. That's not old. Especially for your standards. ;) :lol:
They're even more dissimilar then. That settles it, your experience with an RWD car and an FWD car 18 years apart in age in conditions that may or may not be identical or even similar, untainted by your lack of a bias towards a specific setup, conclusively proves that RWD is better than FWD in every conceivable situation, especially winter driving.
Please stop embarassing yourself further.
I drove em back to back. :rolleyes: Ya know, go for a spin in one, come back, hop in the other one, and go for the exact same drive? :rolleyes:
So it wasn't snowing when you drove them, a post that you ignored awhile back.
And let's not get into the believability issues here.
It wasn't snowing, but we ran out right after the snowing stopped and the roads hadn't been cleared yet by the truck thing. I just didn't want visibility issues.
Under those conditions the snow actually has some traction. Wait until the snow gets compressed into a sheet of ice then come back and give your observation.
I found things tend to get real interesting right at the point where the snow is just starting to accumulate on the road surface. It becomes a sort of slimy, slushy film that gets quite slick. Like trying to drive on wet clay.
When it's new and fluffy (really cold) it actually has that crunchy sound. When it's on the warm side everything goes to hell fairly quickly. :D
All this talk is getting me anxious for the first snow.
(http://www.univie.ac.at/cga/art/walk/ministry-of-silly-walks-1.jpg)
Huh?
(http://haftbar.de/wp-content/sillywalks.gif)
(http://www.kousakusha.co.jp/KEC/sillywalk.jpg)
(http://radio.weblogs.com/0116902/images/2003/05/22/sillywalk.jpg)
:rolleyes:
(http://www.estamosdeacuerdo.net/archives/imatges/cleese_sillywalk.gif)
(http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/goldkeep/Holland78/picfiny.jpg)
(http://www.goldenorlagh.btinternet.co.uk/images/silly_walk.gif)
RAndom. Why are you whoring in an Audi thread?
(http://www.volny.cz/bobule/prh/pics/prh.jpg)
THat's why FWD is better. Look at the traction he's getting.
The pictures are about as useless as your posts, only much more entertaining. So I posted them.
Quote(http://www.volny.cz/bobule/prh/pics/prh.jpg)
THat's why FWD is better. Look at the traction he's getting.
Isn't that more like Front Foot drive?
QuoteThe pictures are about as useless as your posts, only much more entertaining. So I posted them.
It's not my fault that everyone wants to flame me for no particular reason. :angry:
(A man dressed in suit complete with bowler hat comes into shop. He has a silly walk and keeps doing little jumps and then three long paces without moving the top of his body. He buys a paper, then we follow him as he leaves the shop.)
Minister: 'Times' please.
Shopkeeper: Oh yes sir, here you are.
Minister: Thank you.
Shopkeeper: Cheers.
[PICTURE]
(The Minister leaves the shop, from which we see a line of gas men stretching back up the road to Mrs Pinnet,s house (as featured in the New Cooker Sketch), and walks off in an indescribably silly manner. Cut to him proceeding along Whitehall, and into a building labelled 'Ministry of Silly Walks'.)
[PICTURE]
[PICTURE]
(Inside the building he passes three other men, each walking in their own eccentric way.)
[PICTURE]
(Cut to an office; a man is sitting waiting. The minister enters eccentrically.)
Minister: Good morning. I'm sorry to have kept you waiting, but I'm afraid my walk has become rather sillier recently, and so it takes me rather longer to get to work. (sits at desk) Now then, what was it again?
Mr Pudey: Well sir, I have a silly walk and I'd like to obtain a Government grant to help me develop it.
Minister: I see. May I see your silly walk?
Mr Pudey: Yes, certainly, yes.
(He gets up and does a few steps, lifting the bottom part of his left leg sharply at every alternate pace. He stops.)
[PICTURE]
Minister: That's it, is it?
Mr Pudey: Yes, that's it, yes.
Minister: lt's not particularly silly, is it? I mean, the right leg isn't silly at all and the left leg merely does a forward aerial half turn every alternate step.
Mr Pudey: Yes, but I think that with Government backing I could make it very silly.
Minister: (rising) Mr Pudey, (he walks about behind the desk in a very silly fashion) the very real problem is one of money. I'm afraid that the Ministry of Silly Walks is no longer getting the kind of support it needs. You see there's Defence, Social Security, Health, Housing, Education, Silly Walks ... they're all supposed to get the same. But last year, the Government spent less on the Ministry of Silly Walks than it did on National Defencel Now we get ?348,000,000 a year, which is supposed to be spent on all our available products. (he sits down) Coffee?
[PICTURE]
Mr Pudey: Yes please.
Minister: (pressing intercom) Now Mrs Two-Lumps, would you bring us in two coffees please?
Intercom Voice: Yes, Mr Teabag.
Minister: ... Out of her mind. Now the Japanese have a man who can bend his leg back over his head and back again with every single step. While the Israelis... here's the coffee.
(Enter secretary with tray with two cups on it. She has a particularly jerky silly walk which means that by the time she reaches the minister there is no coffee left in the cups. The minister has a quick look in the cups, and smiles understandingly.)
[PICTURE]
Minister: Thank you - lovely. (she exits still carrying tray and cups) You're really interested in silly walks, aren't you?
Mr Pudey: Oh rather. Yes.
Minister: Well take a look at this, then.
(He products a projector from beneath his desk already spooled up and plugged in. He fiicks a switch and it beams onto the opposite wall. The film shows a sequence of six old-fashioned silly walkers. The film is old silent-movie type, scratchy, jerky and 8mm quality. All the participants wear 1900's type costume. One has huge shoes with soles a foot thick, one is a woman, one has. very long 'Little Tich' shoes. Cut back to office. The minister hurls the projeaor away. Along with papers and everything else on his desk. He leans foward.)
[PICTURE]
[PICTURE]
Minister: Now Mr Pudey. I'm not going to mince words with you. I'm going to offer you a Research Fellowship on the Anglo-French
Mr Pudey: La Marche Futile?
(Cut to two Frenchmen, wearing striped jerseys and berets, standing in a field with a third man who is entirely covered by a sheet.)
First Frenchman: Bonjour ... et maintenant ... comme d'habitude, au sujet du Le March? Commun. Et maintenant, je vous presente, encore une fois, mon ami, le pouf c?l?bre, Jean-Brian Zatapathique. (he removes his moustache and sticks it onto the other Frenchman)
Second Frenchman: Merci, mon petit chou-chou Brian Trubshawe. Et maintenant avec les pieds ? droite, et les pieds au gauche, et maintenant l'Anglais-Fran?aise Marche Futile, et voil?
(They unveil the third man and walk off He is facing to camera left and appears to be dressed as a city gent; then he turns about face and we see on his fight half he is dressed au style franfais. He moves off into the distance in eccentric speeded-up motion.)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The Ministry of Silly Walks - has to be one of the best Python sketches ever!!Cleese could move his long legs like no other! :lol:
QuoteQuoteThe pictures are about as useless as your posts, only much more entertaining. So I posted them.
It's not my fault that everyone wants to flame me for no particular reason. :angry:
Rag, you're missing the point entirely. We're not flaming you, we're pointing out that you're wrong. You go from having and opinion to declaring something as a fact when you refuse to respect other people's opinions, and the simple facts of driving dynamics and engineering. Just because you have an opinion that you cling to like life itself doesn't make it right. RWD is not better in snow. I don't care if that's your opinion, you're wrong. You have gone from having a very high opinion of RWD to being a RWD troll. It's the same way with any kind of troll. I can go to C&D and poke huge gaping factual holes in barbarian's posts about the Titan or whatever, but he just says I'm wrong and continues, even though his is based on blind or limited opinion and mine is based on very basic facts. You are doing the same thing. Until you quit, no one is going to leave you alone, and no one will respect your opinions.
goddamn now i wanann ski!
I'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe pictures are about as useless as your posts, only much more entertaining. So I posted them.
It's not my fault that everyone wants to flame me for no particular reason. :angry:
Rag, you're missing the point entirely. We're not flaming you, we're pointing out that you're wrong. You go from having and opinion to declaring something as a fact when you refuse to respect other people's opinions, and the simple facts of driving dynamics and engineering. Just because you have an opinion that you cling to like life itself doesn't make it right. RWD is not better in snow. I don't care if that's your opinion, you're wrong. You have gone from having a very high opinion of RWD to being a RWD troll. It's the same way with any kind of troll. I can go to C&D and poke huge gaping factual holes in barbarian's posts about the Titan or whatever, but he just says I'm wrong and continues, even though his is based on blind or limited opinion and mine is based on very basic facts. You are doing the same thing. Until you quit, no one is going to leave you alone, and no one will respect your opinions.
Thaank you Wizard as I had no patience to actually
explain the obvious issues here. ;)
QuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
I don't disagree with you, but my point still stands.
Quote
Thaank you Wizard as I had no patience to actually explain the obvious issues here. ;)
You're welcome. :D I'm generally not patient either, but I reach a point where it tries my patience more
not to say something.
QuoteQuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
I don't disagree with you, but my point still stands.
In all the mess, I believe I've lost your point specifically, but I'm glad we're in the clear.
EDIT: Okay, after looking back I got you. I still stand by what I said, but your statement definitely makes sense.
EDIT Take Two: Maybe I ought to write an article about this, like I did with the wagons...hmm...
QuoteQuoteQuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow.? But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions.? Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow).? There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
I don't disagree with you, but my point still stands.
In all the mess, I believe I've lost your point specifically, but I'm glad we're in the clear.
Haha... Yes, I can see how that'd happen, I meant my point about Rag's arguments. My point on the FWD vs. RWD thing was posted a few pages bad, basically I'm not saying that if you take RWD in the snow you're going to crash into a tree, just that FWD is easier and more predictable to use. If you are good with RWD and understand it (like yourself) then you can do well with RWD too, but
overall FWD is easier/better on slick road conditions for a number of reasons.
Well, THAT I agree with.
QuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
This is pretty much my take as well. I really don't mind RWD in the snow (and given snow tires and TCS/ESP I'd be in heaven, I didn't have those luxuries with mine), but FWD definately has better traction given equal tires and is more stable. It's generally a little easier to get around with FWD, but you do lose throttle induced yaw control which I had become reasonably proficient with. I never had any kind of stabiilty issues in the rain and if I ever had a RWD with stability control, it would only get turned on in snow and ice.
QuoteQuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
This is pretty much my take as well. I really don't mind RWD in the snow (and given snow tires and TCS/ESP I'd be in heaven, I didn't have those luxuries with mine), but FWD definately has better traction given equal tires and is more stable. It's generally a little easier to get around with FWD, but you do lose throttle induced yaw control which I had become reasonably proficient with. I never had any kind of stabiilty issues in the rain and if I ever had a RWD with stability control, it would only get turned on in snow and ice.
Honestly, with my tires I was more worried in rain than in snow.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
This is pretty much my take as well. I really don't mind RWD in the snow (and given snow tires and TCS/ESP I'd be in heaven, I didn't have those luxuries with mine), but FWD definately has better traction given equal tires and is more stable. It's generally a little easier to get around with FWD, but you do lose throttle induced yaw control which I had become reasonably proficient with. I never had any kind of stabiilty issues in the rain and if I ever had a RWD with stability control, it would only get turned on in snow and ice.
Honestly, with my tires I was more worried in rain than in snow.
Bald or cheap? I find it hard to believe they could be any worse than the off-brand all season tires that were on my 240 that likely didn't even cost $40 a piece.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe pictures are about as useless as your posts, only much more entertaining. So I posted them.
It's not my fault that everyone wants to flame me for no particular reason. :angry:
Rag, you're missing the point entirely. We're not flaming you, we're pointing out that you're wrong. You go from having and opinion to declaring something as a fact when you refuse to respect other people's opinions, and the simple facts of driving dynamics and engineering. Just because you have an opinion that you cling to like life itself doesn't make it right. RWD is not better in snow. I don't care if that's your opinion, you're wrong. You have gone from having a very high opinion of RWD to being a RWD troll. It's the same way with any kind of troll. I can go to C&D and poke huge gaping factual holes in barbarian's posts about the Titan or whatever, but he just says I'm wrong and continues, even though his is based on blind or limited opinion and mine is based on very basic facts. You are doing the same thing. Until you quit, no one is going to leave you alone, and no one will respect your opinions.
I've been saying ALL along that it's my opinion and that everyone has different opinions, but everyone just decides to ignore me, and dumbasses like you think i'm making it a fact. I THOUGHT it was easier to drive a RWD car than a FWD car in snow. That was my OPINION. I just stated it because that's what i THOUGHT. Have i said it enough now? Everyone just jumped on me for being a troll, but i'm not because trolls will say, "RWD is better in snow for everyone, and FWD should be nuked down", or something. All this time, i was trying to tell everyone that it was my OPINION, NOT a FACT. Have you guys got the concept in your thick heads now? I don't mind if you guys like FWD better than RWD in snow, but i THOUGHT that RWD was better in snow when i drove both the cars.
You guys use me liking RWD as an excuse to fucking jump on me. Fuckers. :angry:
And then when people point out the flaws in what you think, you stamp your feet and call them names and whine that everyone's out to get you. :rolleyes:
QuoteAnd then when people point out the flaws in what you think, you stamp your feet and call them names and whine that everyone's out to get you. :rolleyes:
But first, when i say my opinion on the subject, you guys just think i'm wrong for whatever reason and then flame me. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'd hate for it to seem like I'm coming down on Rag's side, because I'm not, but I still prefer RWD in snow. But, FWD is easier and probably safer to drive in inclement weather conditions. Hell, in the E320, for rain I'd put ESP back on (I'd leave it off in the dry and a combination of on/off in the snow). There is more stability in driving a FWD car in snow, but RWD is easier to turn, if you know what you're doing.
This is pretty much my take as well. I really don't mind RWD in the snow (and given snow tires and TCS/ESP I'd be in heaven, I didn't have those luxuries with mine), but FWD definately has better traction given equal tires and is more stable. It's generally a little easier to get around with FWD, but you do lose throttle induced yaw control which I had become reasonably proficient with. I never had any kind of stabiilty issues in the rain and if I ever had a RWD with stability control, it would only get turned on in snow and ice.
Honestly, with my tires I was more worried in rain than in snow.
Bald or cheap? I find it hard to believe they could be any worse than the off-brand all season tires that were on my 240 that likely didn't even cost $40 a piece.
They were $200 Michelin Pilots with a lower profile than my stock MXV4s (that I got for an amazing deal--half off and a free DVD player with a set of four) that had terrible rain traction, but had phenomenal dry grip, and were pretty good in the snow. My brother, who can't quite handle a car like I can, had a lot of trouble with them when he inherited the car from me and replaced them with 215/55 Potenzas, returning back to the original size.
QuoteQuoteAnd then when people point out the flaws in what you think, you stamp your feet and call them names and whine that everyone's out to get you. :rolleyes:
But first, when i say my opinion on the subject, you guys just think i'm wrong for whatever reason and then flame me. :rolleyes:
We don't have to just think that you're wrong. It's entirely obvious.
QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd then when people point out the flaws in what you think, you stamp your feet and call them names and whine that everyone's out to get you. :rolleyes:
But first, when i say my opinion on the subject, you guys just think i'm wrong for whatever reason and then flame me. :rolleyes:
We don't have to just think that you're wrong. It's entirely obvious.
So when Raza says that he prefers RWD over FWD, he's not flamed at? :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd then when people point out the flaws in what you think, you stamp your feet and call them names and whine that everyone's out to get you. :rolleyes:
But first, when i say my opinion on the subject, you guys just think i'm wrong for whatever reason and then flame me. :rolleyes:
We don't have to just think that you're wrong. It's entirely obvious.
So when Raza says that he prefers RWD over FWD, he's not flamed at? :rolleyes:
Raza lives in the Northeast. Raza owned and lived with a RWD car and drove one throughout at least one full winter and was, more or less, exposed to the full array of winter road conditions. Raza also has a FWD which he has driven through a winter. Your winter driving in either example, according to what you've said, has been limited to a couple of times when you were on vacation. You didn't drive through a heavy snowfall or blizzard. You haven't driven when the roads were icy. Experience wise, Raza has more credibility. Further, Raza never said RWD is easier to drive in the snow. In fact, he said FWD is easier to deal with in bad weather just a few posts ago. What he said was he prefered RWD driving dynamics.
There's a difference between saying "I prefer RWD in the snow" and "RWD is superior in the snow".
Just as importantly, there is the difference in understanding and experience.
Precisely, MX793. 2 winters on the E320, though.
I just realized that I've never really driven anything in real snow other than AWD...
RWD guys, how long does it take someone to get used to it in the snow...?
I'm still at least three months away from the 325i, though...
I find 4wd to be the best, personally...the 'ute is a hell of a nicer drive than the Slob or the Big H.
QuoteRWD is quite easy to control in snow. Much easier than FWD.
There's one quote where you didn't say anything about opinion. When you state something like that, you're presenting it as a fact. I'm sure I can find another in this thread alone, if you like.
QuoteI just realized that I've never really driven anything in real snow other than AWD...
RWD guys, how long does it take someone to get used to it in the snow...?
I'm still at least three months away from the 325i, though...
replacing the Audi? What for?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd then when people point out the flaws in what you think, you stamp your feet and call them names and whine that everyone's out to get you. :rolleyes:
But first, when i say my opinion on the subject, you guys just think i'm wrong for whatever reason and then flame me. :rolleyes:
We don't have to just think that you're wrong. It's entirely obvious.
So when Raza says that he prefers RWD over FWD, he's not flamed at? :rolleyes:
Raza said he thought it was easier to turn, but he also said in the same post that he thought FWD was more stable. What Raza has said and what you've said are entirely different.
QuoteI just realized that I've never really driven anything in real snow other than AWD...
RWD guys, how long does it take someone to get used to it in the snow...?
I'm still at least three months away from the 325i, though...
Hard to say. I never had any huge problems when winter came, but I had several years of riding motorcycles in the mud to hone my throttle control.
My best advice would to start off overly cautious. Slow down and take your time until you feel comfortable with the way the car behaves. The best way to figure out how the car wants to react to different driver inputs is to find an empty, snowy parking lot and practice donuts, figure 8s, and controlled power slides (with TCS and ESP turned OFF, obviously). That should get you pretty used to how the car will want to slide and how hard you can push it before it will actually slide. Don't become reliant on TCS and Stability Control. Learn to handle the car and where its limits are without these aids. If you can learn to keep the car within its unassisted limits in the snow, you are far less likely to get into trouble with the driving aids turned on. Use the aids as a safety net rather than a primary support.
QuoteQuoteRWD is quite easy to control in snow. Much easier than FWD.
There's one quote where you didn't say anything about opinion. When you state something like that, you're presenting it as a fact. I'm sure I can find another in this thread alone, if you like.
Fine, next time for you losers i'll put 'for me' at the end of the sentence. Happy? :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteRWD is quite easy to control in snow. Much easier than FWD.
There's one quote where you didn't say anything about opinion. When you state something like that, you're presenting it as a fact. I'm sure I can find another in this thread alone, if you like.
Fine, next time for you losers i'll put 'for me' at the end of the sentence. Happy? :rolleyes:
There's no reason to be immature and throw in the rolleyes about it. I don't dislike you by any means, but I'm making a valid point to respond to you, and in typical behavior about anything relating to a RWD argument, you respond with something immature.
QuoteQuoteI just realized that I've never really driven anything in real snow other than AWD...
RWD guys, how long does it take someone to get used to it in the snow...?
I'm still at least three months away from the 325i, though...
Hard to say. I never had any huge problems when winter came, but I had several years of riding motorcycles in the mud to hone my throttle control.
My best advice would to start off overly cautious. Slow down and take your time until you feel comfortable with the way the car behaves. The best way to figure out how the car wants to react to different driver inputs is to find an empty, snowy parking lot and practice donuts, figure 8s, and controlled power slides (with TCS and ESP turned OFF, obviously). That should get you pretty used to how the car will want to slide and how hard you can push it before it will actually slide. Don't become reliant on TCS and Stability Control. Learn to handle the car and where its limits are without these aids. If you can learn to keep the car within its unassisted limits in the snow, you are far less likely to get into trouble with the driving aids turned on. Use the aids as a safety net rather than a primary support.
That's what I'd say. Though ESP will come in handy if you hear rumors of black ice forming. That shit sneaks up on you.
If you don't believe him, believe me when I say I got stuck in snow with ESP on because it wouldn't allow me to spin enough to get traction. That's what I get for stopping at stop signs. In any case, I turned ESP off, spun for a moment or two, and slid my tail around. I got used to RWD rather quickly, since I was already prepared and well warned of RWD dynamics, since it was the first platform I used. Switching from AWD to RWD in snow will take a bit more time for you to acclimate yourself to the nuances of a RWD platform.
Going from a FWD (with TC) to a RWD (with SC) car to me was not an issue. I didn't have any real gains. Its true FWD was more stable and predictable but I did not have a hard time dricing my Z3 all winter long (and I had summer tires on the whole time). The few times I went out in really snowy conditions (it doesn't snow that much in SJ) I didn't have any traction issues but I would set off the stability control sometimes.
Getting AWD here in Montreal is one of the better decisions I have made. Its more stable and predictable than FWD and you still get to have almost as much fun as a RWD car. I have driven through some very very heavy snow (more than once I would be going around cars that got stuck on highway...) and I have have never, ever had any traction issues or even had my stability control come on. The only reason I know its there is from testing it out in open parking lots. If you go back and look at my old posts on C&D you will see I was not a fan of AWD (or Audi for that matter) but driving the A4 for a year now has changed my mind for the most part.
QuoteRag ruins another perfectly decent thread. <_<
Back to the car......I like the idea of the 3.2. The added torque alone would sway me.
Four pages back to find an on-topic post. I can't help but feeling this is half my fault. Well, maybe an eighth my fault.
In any case, I ran up the bill on a 2.0T and a 3.2, the exact models and options that I would by if I were to buy, and the difference came to only about $3000. Either I messed something up (perhaps I added navigation to the 2.0T and not the 3.2) or there's a much better value in getting the 3.2 if you want a higher feature content. Though you know of my new found passionate love for all things turbocharged, there is nostalgia involved for me when you start talking about a longitudinal 3.2L naturally aspirated V6.
I'll build the two again side by side and come back to you with my results.
Model and Powertrain: A4 2.0 T 6-speed manual quattro?
Base MSRP: $29,740
Price as configured: $38,035
Packages:
Sunroof package $1,400
Premium package $1,850
Technology package $1,775
Cold weather package $400
Bose? premium sound system with AudioPilot? noise compensation feature and XM? Satellite Radio $1,000
Individual options:
Destination Charge $720
Rear side airbags* $350
Walnut wood interior trim $400
Customer Order options*:
17-inch 16-spoke cast alloy wheels with 235/45 R17 all-season tires $150
Sport suspension $250
Model and Powertrain: A4 3.2 6-speed manual quattro?
Base MSRP: $34,840
Price as configured: $42,535
Packages:
Sunroof package $1,000
Premium package $1,050
Technology package $1,775
Cold weather package $400
Bose? premium sound system with AudioPilot? noise compensation feature and XM? Satellite Radio $1,000
Individual options:
Destination Charge $720
Rear side airbags* $350
Customer Order options*:
17-inch 16-spoke cast alloy wheels with 235/45 R17 all-season tires $150
Sport suspension $250
So, it's roughly 4 grand, if you get the extra $1000 premium leather package. Not really that big of a difference, if you ask me.
That is a big difference imho, I would probably go for the 2.0t myself (unless the 3.2l is considerably faster, and I honestly don't think it will be).
Four thousand seems considerably larger than 3, yes, but if you omit the full leather package it does go down to about 3 grand. On a lease, that's roughly 50-60 dollars a month, so it is more money. But, I think 55 horsepower and a longer and wider torque curve would make the 3.2 V6 a much better car to rev up, launch, and then pull yourself through the corners with, considering the midrange torque comes in handy so often (I should know, I have none!).
The 2.0t is supposed to be a lot better than the 1.8t was in that regard.
QuoteModel and Powertrain: A4 3.2 6-speed manual quattro?
Base MSRP: $34,840
Price as configured: $42,535
Packages:
Sunroof package $1,000
Premium package $1,050
Technology package $1,775
Cold weather package $400
Bose? premium sound system with AudioPilot? noise compensation feature and XM? Satellite Radio $1,000
Individual options:
Destination Charge $720
Rear side airbags* $350
Customer Order options*:
17-inch 16-spoke cast alloy wheels with 235/45 R17 all-season tires $150
Sport suspension $250
So, it's roughly 4 grand, if you get the extra $1000 premium leather package. Not really that big of a difference, if you ask me.
For 40,000 bones I could get 8 nice cars that would provide much more fun than a single car.
QuoteThe 2.0t is supposed to be a lot better than the 1.8t was in that regard.
The 2.0 in the Jetta GLI and A4 are the same right?
If so, then the 2.0 should be way better. When C/D wrote about the new GLI, the 2.0 got the car from 5-60 half a second quicker.
Other than that, the numbers were virtually identical.
The 2.0T engine is much better than the 1.8T. Much fatter powerband with higher peaks earlier (torque) and later (HP), and better fuel consumption to boot.
The 2.0T A4 is listed at 7.2 seconds 0-100 kph. My A4 1.8T was listed at 8.1 seconds...!
As for price, the way Raza built his has some superfluous options. The bose system isn't really worth it IMHO. The standard Audi sound system is a 6-disc CD changer with 10 speaks + 1 subwoofer (11 total speakers), and it comes pre-wired for XM or Sirius satellite radio. Also the 3.2 comes standard with the 10 spoke 17 inchers (the ones in Raza's signature) so there is little reason to choose the optional set. IMHO they are actually uglier! The cold weather package is for heated rear seats and a ski bag...heated front seats are standard...so that's another one I would skip. I would also skip the premium leather option since I personally couldn't tell the difference (leather seating surfaces are standard and what I currently have in my A4 1.8TQ).
I would however want to add the headlight washers and TPMS. MSRP: $40,860
If I got the A4 2.0T with similar options it would be 36,960.
IRL I am not sure which I would choose. More likely the 2.0T since it has plenty of power (IMHO), gets better gas mileage, and is cheaper to begin with.
Although honestly if I was buying right now it would probably come down to either the BMW 325i or Saab 9-3 Aero.
I guess I didn't read carefully enough, but I usually stick cold weather package on there. I put the 17" rims since I put them on the 2.0T.
I do like the leather though.
I"d go for teh 2.0T. B)
Eh, I'll take the brute force when I can get it.
QuoteEh, I'll take the brute force when I can get it.
Meh... Is the 2.0T lighter than the 3.2?
I don't think so, right? Isn't the 3.2 aluminum and the 2.0 iron? Plus with all the turbos and stuff.
QuoteQuoteEh, I'll take the brute force when I can get it.
Meh... Is the 2.0T lighter than the 3.2?
I don't think so, right? Isn't the 3.2 aluminum and the 2.0 iron? Plus with all the turbos and stuff.
The 2.0T is iron...
Overall the weight difference is ~100 lbs between like models.
QuoteQuoteQuoteEh, I'll take the brute force when I can get it.
Meh... Is the 2.0T lighter than the 3.2?
I don't think so, right? Isn't the 3.2 aluminum and the 2.0 iron? Plus with all the turbos and stuff.
The 2.0T is iron...
Overall the weight difference is ~100 lbs between like models.
The Four is still lighter?
QuoteI guess I didn't read carefully enough, but I usually stick cold weather package on there. I put the 17" rims since I put them on the 2.0T.
I do like the leather though.
Actually the 2.0T gets the double 5 spokers 17 inches with premium package...
I'd still like the 3er over this.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteEh, I'll take the brute force when I can get it.
Meh... Is the 2.0T lighter than the 3.2?
I don't think so, right? Isn't the 3.2 aluminum and the 2.0 iron? Plus with all the turbos and stuff.
The 2.0T is iron...
Overall the weight difference is ~100 lbs between like models.
The Four is still lighter?
Yep, but not necessarily due to the engine.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteEh, I'll take the brute force when I can get it.
Meh... Is the 2.0T lighter than the 3.2?
I don't think so, right? Isn't the 3.2 aluminum and the 2.0 iron? Plus with all the turbos and stuff.
The 2.0T is iron...
Overall the weight difference is ~100 lbs between like models.
The Four is still lighter?
Yep, but not necessarily due to the engine.
What else then?Chassis upgrades?
Probably sound deadening or something.
QuoteProbably sound deadening or something.
Wouldn't they want more sound deadening on the smalelr enginer?
Why? The 3.2l is the more luxurious version therefore it should have more sound deadening material.
QuoteWhy? The 3.2l is the more luxurious version therefore it should have more sound deadening material.
The 2 is noiser and loader and rougher.
Yes, but it is cheaper/b] (though I wouldn't be surprised if the 2.0t is actually a more expensive engine to make) , Audi expects people who put a big priority on refinement to step up to the 3.2.
QuoteYes, but it is cheaper/b] (though I wouldn't be surprised if the 2.0t is actually a more expensive engine to make) , Audi expects people who put a big priority on refinement to step up to the 3.2.
I guess...
QuoteI'd still like the 3er over this.
I do too, having been in both.
Unless the 3.2 with sport package is drastically better than a 2.0T, the 330i is defenitely the better drive.