Classic cars, motorcycles and lorries are to be banned from Paris within two years under a plan to cut pollution that opponents claim is "anti-social, anti-suburban and anti-motorist".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9672713/Old-bangers-and-classic-cars-to-be-banned-from-Paris.html
Under proposals presented to the city council on Monday, Socialist mayor Bertrand Delano? intends to outlaw by September 2014 the use of cars and utility vehicles more than 17 years old and lorries or buses more than 18 years old.
Motorcycles built before 2004 will also be forbidden, as the mayor said they were the "most polluting and noisiest".
The "old banger" ban will apply to all vehicles inside the A86 motorway that surrounds the French capital.
If the measures go ahead, classic old cars like 2CVs, Peugeot 205s and Renault 4Ls will be a thing of the past in the capital, along with sputtering but charming old Vespas and other two-wheelers deemed too dirty to drive.
Fabien Breuvart, the proud owner of a silver 1990 Renault 4L asked: "Is this mayor really Left-wing?"
The plan would "exclude the poorest people from driving in the capital" and turn Paris into an "island for the rich", he told Le Parisien newspaper.
The Socialists insisted they would introduce "social" measures to help families and businesses update vehicles, including state subsidies to scrap old cars for new ones ? a move experts dubbed unrealistic given the huge cost of such a measure at a time of austerity.
Philippe Goujon, head of the Right-wing opposition UMP federation in the Paris council criticised the move as "anti-social, anti-surbuban and anti-motorist." He said it was a purely political manoeuvre by Mr Delano? to make Anne Hidalgo, the deputy he hopes will succeed him in 2014, appear "greener" than the Greens.
Other measures unveiled on Monday included one to erect toll barriers on cross-city motorways for lorries. Eco-taxes will be also imposed for those using Paris' inner ring road, le p?riph?rique, with heavy vehicles tracked via satellite or number plate recognition.
The idea, the mayor said, is to "progressively and in a concerted manner" ban all lorries from driving in or around the capital.
The speed limit on the ring road will be cut from 80kph (50mph) to 70kph (43mph), while the number of 30kph zones within Paris will be multiplied starting mid-2013.
The measures require approval at ministerial level and the Paris Pr?fecture de Police
They are part of a plan to turn Paris into a Low Emission Zone, cutting emissions by 30 per cent by 2015. Failure to comply with European air pollution norms could see Brussels slap a 100 million-euro fine on France in 2016.
Air pollution is responsible for 43,000 deaths per year in France and is estimated to take six months off Parisians' lives compared to those outside the capital.
The ban is the latest in Mr Delano?'s war on "the hegemony of the automobile" that has seen him introduce trams, bike and bus lanes and the popular cycle rental scheme. In the past year, he has launched Autolib', the electric car rental system and begun pedestrianising stretches of road along the banks of the Seine.
This has delighted most non-motorists, now the majority in Paris, but has dismayed car and taxi drivers, who claim traffic congestion is worse than ever.
Fran?ois Legaret of the UMP said the latest "autocratic" measure would not solve the "paralysis" he claimed the other traffic schemes had caused.
Critics said it failed to tackle the real problem in France: its heavy reliance on diesel, used by 60 per cent of all vehicles and emitting three times as many harmful fine particles as petrol. The town hall sidestepped the issue by calling on the government to cut tax incentives to use diesel.
Users of old cars are only thought to account for three per cent of the 4.5 million or so vehicles in the Paris region.
This one is pretty dumb.
France is fucked up.
How does he plan on getting goods to stores in he eventually bans lorries altogether? Fucking asshole socialists who believe they must exercise their morals on all others no matter the opposition. This actually makes me really fucking mad because this attitude has already begun to infest cities and governments in NA and it's goddamn fucking scary. My next car is going to be a 2011+ Mustang GT or Boss and I'm keeping the fucker for the rest of my life whether it's my primary driver or not, and god help the asshole that tries to force me to scrap it.
By the way, the most environmentally friendly cars are the ones we drive until they fall apart from rust. Scrapping cars and buying new ones every 5 years is what is environmentally damaging.
It's not that shocking. They wanted to introduce a similar ban on classic cars in Munich a few years ago and the mayor of Munich told the makers of this law to go fuck themselves. :rockon:
Quote from: SVT666 on November 12, 2012, 03:35:08 PM
By the way, the most environmentally friendly cars are the ones we drive until they fall apart from rust. Scrapping cars and buying new ones every 5 years is what is environmentally damaging.
True, but the pollution from building the new one isn't in the center of Paris.
"Motorcycles built before 2004 will also be forbidden, as the mayor said they were the "most polluting and noisiest".
As far as I can tell, this is patently false. There is no real difference in noise levels between years of motorcycles that I can tell, and even in France, emissions for motorcycles have always been more lax than those for cars.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 12, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
How does he plan on getting goods to stores in he eventually bans lorries altogether?
Bicycles, with wicker baskets.
When I was in Paris three years ago, I was more conscious of the stink from diesels than from any old 2CVs or R4s that were still knocking around.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 12, 2012, 04:44:51 PM
Bicycles, with wicker baskets.
Trucks that run on unicorn farts and power of dreams.
Fuck that place.
"Air pollution is responsible for 43,000 deaths per year in France and is estimated to take six months off Parisians' lives compared to those outside the capital."
How do they figure this out??
"Users of old cars are only thought to account for three per cent of the 4.5 million or so vehicles in the Paris region."
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
All the hubbub and grief. If they just give it a year or two more of those old-timers will be off the road anyway.
None of this will ever happen. This is pure right-wing scaremongering from the ToryGraph. (A notoriously right-wing "news" paper)
Sacre Bleu! Paris set to ban classic cars?
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/11/citroen-628.jpg)
Bertrand Delano?, the socialist mayor of Paris, has submitted a proposal to the French capital's city council that aims to ban all cars and utility vehicles 17 years of age or older from use inside the A86 motorway. Buses and trucks 18 years old or older would also be prohibited from inside the city proper. The proposed ban is largely aimed at reducing emissions, though it also includes a stipulation barring motorcycles built before 2004. According to The Telegraph, Delano? argues that such machines are "the most polluting and noisiest." But opponents of the measure say the proposal would only serve to exclude less wealthy individuals from driving in Paris.
In response, the socialist party has said it would introduce programs to help individuals update their vehicles through a program to swap old machines for new ones. Unfortunately, that seems unlikely given the strict austerity measures sweeping the European Union.
Delano?'s critics, meanwhile, have said the proposal is more likely political posturing than any real attempt at changing policy.
Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/13/sacre-bleu-paris-set-to-ban-classic-cars/
Quote from: Madman on November 13, 2012, 10:46:45 AM
None of this will ever happen. This is pure right-wing scaremongering from the ToryGraph. (A notoriously right-wing "news" paper)
Stop being a twit.
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/lutte-contre-la-pollution-bertrand-delanoe-propose-de-relancer-la-prime-a-la-casse_1186096.html
"Air pollution is responsible for 43,000 deaths per year in France"
Uh, what?
Air pollution is a significant health problem for many, and in particular, particulate exhaust from diesel, so philosophically this ban has merit in a modern city such as Paris. However, any such "ban" must be contractual between private property owners and not the result of government action (arbitrary law).
Quote from: Morris Minor on November 15, 2012, 03:55:02 AM
Stop being a twit.
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/lutte-contre-la-pollution-bertrand-delanoe-propose-de-relancer-la-prime-a-la-casse_1186096.html
Just because a couple of loony frog-eaters are for it doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2012, 08:42:21 AM
"Air pollution is responsible for 43,000 deaths per year in France"
Uh, what?
The smoke stabs them in the throat. Or is packing heat.
Quote from: Morris Minor on November 15, 2012, 03:55:02 AM
Stop being a twit.
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/lutte-contre-la-pollution-bertrand-delanoe-propose-de-relancer-la-prime-a-la-casse_1186096.html
Twit is my current favorite insult. That, and twat, but other people don't seem to like that one as much. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2012, 08:42:21 AM
"Air pollution is responsible for 43,000 deaths per year in France"
Uh, what?
That's 11k more than the number of deaths caused by car crashes in the USA in 2010. :wtf:
Far as I know, they started putting catalytic converters on bikes in about 2004. At least in the USA. Oh, well. I wasn't planning on riding the Harley though France anyway. :huh:
Quote from: Rupert on November 15, 2012, 08:24:42 PM
Twit is my current favorite insult. That, and twat, but other people don't seem to like that one as much. :lol:
'Pillock' is a good one too. Never see that one here.
Buffoon, but it's kind of specific.
Quote from: Morris Minor on November 19, 2012, 05:15:58 PM
'Pillock' is a good one too. Never see that one here.
Heh, I used that one last night.
Don't forget the Avengers' "quim".... :confused:
Quote from: shp4man on November 16, 2012, 05:07:30 PM
Far as I know, they started putting catalytic converters on bikes in about 2004. At least in the USA. Oh, well. I wasn't planning on riding the Harley though France anyway. :huh:
Last summer, I happened to be in Killarney, Ireland during Harley weekend (most had either Irish or French license plates). Believe me, Europeans LOVE their Harleys. :ohyeah: :lol:
Philosophically, this sucks. Can't people just drive whatever the fuck they want? Drive what you want, eat what you want, smoke what you want, make/invest what you want, abort what you want and marry who you want. Neither side, right or left, gives a fuck about individual rights, and it's sickening.