Just curious what everyone has to say. I've largely driven two seaters for the last few years as my only car, so if I won the lottery, I think I'd still find myself daily driving something small and sporty. I greatly prefer something small and low to the ground because it's what I'm used to now. The 911 Turbo has always been it in my mind as the ultimate daily driver.
So what's your answer? Money no question, what do you drive everyday?
A lightweight, RWD, manual transmission car. Preferably with two seats.
No reason not to have a fun DD.
Depends greatly on the daily drive, doesn't it?
I mean, if you're a single guy without back problems, there's no real reason not to choose just about anything you like.
If you're always shlepping around kids, running errands, commuting, or hauling sports equipment and small trailers, that's entirely different.
My ideal daily driver (which basically has to do all those things) right now is a '94-'96 Buick Roadmaster Wagon (the only years available with the LT-1). Of course, that's today- ask me tomorrow.
Audi RS6 Avant would be awesome if they sold them in the US.
Or Mini Cooper S JCW.
I'd go for a 2+2 coupe. Something like an S5, M3, or GT-R. Or maybe a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston DB9 if money is truly no object.
Does it have to do it all? Or can I have multiple cars for multiple purposes?
If it has to do it all, then an Audi S4 or Infiniti G35x. I live in an area with significant snowfall and cold weather (also, I'm not a really talented driver), so anything rear-drive only is out. Each is relatively compact, but large enough to carry a few passengers or a large load of stuff. They're both fun to drive on a road with curves, but can also devour highway miles with a calm ease, as I rack up most of my mileage on the highway. They're both powerful enough to easily pass other traffic on two-lane highways and put a big-idiot grin on my face in a straight line, but not so extreme as to require a lawyer on retainer for inevitable reckless driving charges.
I like the looks of both too, and I think the S4 is available with a manual transmission, should I be inclined to choose it.
Something like an S4 or S6 in avant form would be ideal, if its an only car.
I could do a Corvette, 911 etc as a daily driver as long as I had something bigger for when I need it. I drive my C6 to work every day. I couldn't do anything that small as an only car anymore though, between home ownership and now two dog ownership. Can't have more than one 80-lb dog in the vette at one time, unless I taught one of them how to drive.
I'm imaging more than one vehicle, btw.
E90 M3
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 01, 2013, 06:57:43 PM
E90 M3
Beat me to it. :cheers:
As a do it all, very few cars come close if any. Comfortable for 4, comfortable and trackable at e same time. Also, ultra-reliable.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on July 01, 2013, 08:07:36 PM
Beat me to it. :cheers:
As a do it all, very few cars come close if any. Comfortable for 4, comfortable and trackable at e same time. Also, ultra-reliable.
I dunno, for a daily driver that'll have one occupant in it, a sedan seems like a waste.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 01, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
Something like an S4 or S6 in avant form would be ideal, if its an only car.
I could do a Corvette, 911 etc as a daily driver as long as I had something bigger for when I need it. I drive my C6 to work every day. I couldn't do anything that small as an only car anymore though, between home ownership and now two dog ownership. Can't have more than one 80-lb dog in the vette at one time, unless I taught one of them how to drive.
Exactly my thoughts on this.
Quote from: MrH on July 01, 2013, 06:57:15 PM
I'm imaging more than one vehicle, btw.
Yes, I know. The daily driver has to do all the things I do from day to day. The "special" car gets to be the car I want.
C7 Vert.....
Yeah, daily driver to me is an only car than can do all of our daily needs, and for other tasks you'd have to rent a truck or something.
As a second car, most of us could tolerate most anything as a dd. I could drive an Elise more or less daily as long as I had the 4runner in reserve.
Quote from: MrH on July 01, 2013, 06:23:49 PM
Just curious what everyone has to say. I've largely driven two seaters for the last few years as my only car, so if I won the lottery, I think I'd still find myself daily driving something small and sporty. I greatly prefer something small and low to the ground because it's what I'm used to now. The 911 Turbo has always been it in my mind as the ultimate daily driver.
So what's your answer? Money no question, what do you drive everyday?
Restored classic.
63 Thunderbird, 66 E-Type OTS, 66 Olds Toronado, 66 Pontiac 2+2 convertible; something along those lines.
I've been thinking a lot about this. Where I live, the ideal DD has to be FWD or AWD, otherwise winter commuting can get just a little too dicey. While I've been using my Z4 as a daily driver and 80% of the time it's been totally awesome, the 20% leaves me with times where the car is just undriveable (like snow) or impractical. I can easily get by with this car most of the time. I don't care to carry passengers, I very rarely need to carry anything that won't fit in my trunk, and I'm fine with the relatively stiff ride. But, if you can account for rare occurrences without sacrificing driveability, why not? A car like the GTI would make an ideal daily driver. Fast, fun, good on gas, practical. But then again, something like a Saab 9-2X would be awesome too; even faster, AWD, and since it's a Saab station wagon, it's like driving a stealth ship through traffic.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on July 01, 2013, 06:50:48 PM
Does it have to do it all? Or can I have multiple cars for multiple purposes?
If it has to do it all, then an Audi S4 or Infiniti G35x. I live in an area with significant snowfall and cold weather (also, I'm not a really talented driver), so anything rear-drive only is out. Each is relatively compact, but large enough to carry a few passengers or a large load of stuff. They're both fun to drive on a road with curves, but can also devour highway miles with a calm ease, as I rack up most of my mileage on the highway. They're both powerful enough to easily pass other traffic on two-lane highways and put a big-idiot grin on my face in a straight line, but not so extreme as to require a lawyer on retainer for inevitable reckless driving charges.
I like the looks of both too, and I think the S4 is available with a manual transmission, should I be inclined to choose it.
This is what it came down to for me (I went with the G37x sedan). I do a fair amount of both snow and gravel road driving and do it with other people and their gear so a sedan was necessary, plus I have to be able to put a hitch on it for my bike rack. Fancier sedans than the G37x tend to come with 19"+ wheels which are problematic for both types of driving plus a trailer hitch install usually becomes a major custom install. They also tend to be bigger (a definite do not want) and unless the cash outlay is huge (550i, E550, etc.) performance isn't any better (and a lot of times less). So, AWD midsize/compact performance sedans are relatively few - IS350 is a joke for interior space, CTS performance doesn't stack up, the TL is too big and I don't like the looks, and I don't trust the German marques (though the S4 was a distant 2nd). So, in effect, my DD has to be a bit of an all-weather/conditions beater with 4-doors, decent performance, decent reliability, and somewhat versatile what with attachments.
You don't want to know. :praise:
If my daily driver also has to pull my boat and my utility trailer to the dump, then my ideal DD would be a Range Rover. If I can keep my Explorer for those duties, then my ideal DD would be a CTS-V Wagon.
The s2k was the perfect DD for the commute I had at the time (12 miles one-way of PCH).
Now I have a normal freeway commute, so the Caddy fits the bill well. I definitely wouldn't mind some better mpg's though...Mazda 6 Skyactiv-D? Maybe a Lexus ES hybrid if I had the $$$?
I'm still big on the WRX for wintery climates, and something like the GTI or Focus RS for everything else.
Actually, I think I take it back. My ultimate daily driver? A Gundam.
Quote from: Raza on July 02, 2013, 10:56:24 AM
Actually, I think I take it back. My ultimate daily driver? A Gundam.
:D
Hmm... tough one. All would be wagons though. Kids and stuff to haul around all of the time. Still want it to feel like a car so no SUV's/Minivans.
Money no object and new: E350 4Matic Wagon.
Used: V70 R Wagon, Legacy Outback , A6 Avant...etc etc.
I'm not a paranoid guy but i'd feel uncomfortable commuting in a superlux car because of attention from unsavory types. Never underestimate the idiocy of a punk gangbanger who just doesn't give a shit about anything (i.e. Aaron hernandez). So which superlux car would be most comfortable and most natural to have aftermarket high grade armoring. Either a rolls royce or a bentley. I'd pick the bentley. Its more of a drivers car.
Quote from: veeman on July 02, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I'm not a paranoid guy but i'd feel uncomfortable commuting in a superlux car because of attention from unsavory types. Never underestimate the idiocy of a punk gangbanger who just doesn't give a shit about anything (i.e. Aaron hernandez). So which superlux car would be most comfortable and most natural to have aftermarket high grade armoring. Either a rolls royce or a bentley. I'd pick the bentley. Its more of a drivers car.
Mercedes G-wagen
Quote from: veeman on July 02, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I'm not a paranoid guy but i'd feel uncomfortable commuting in a superlux car because of attention from unsavory types. Never underestimate the idiocy of a punk gangbanger who just doesn't give a shit about anything (i.e. Aaron hernandez). So which superlux car would be most comfortable and most natural to have aftermarket high grade armoring. Either a rolls royce or a bentley. I'd pick the bentley. Its more of a drivers car.
Call Janko, have them build you a Bentley.
Quote from: veeman on July 02, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I'm not a paranoid guy but i'd feel uncomfortable commuting in a superlux car because of attention from unsavory types. Never underestimate the idiocy of a punk gangbanger who just doesn't give a shit about anything (i.e. Aaron hernandez). So which superlux car would be most comfortable and most natural to have aftermarket high grade armoring. Either a rolls royce or a bentley. I'd pick the bentley. Its more of a drivers car.
Just buy a lux car from South Africa. They have all sorts of aftermarket automotive "defense systems" available. :lol:
2000 Mazda Miata with the doors welded shut and welded bracing connecting firewall and rear bulkhead. 14" performance all season tires, too.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 03, 2013, 12:09:23 AM
Mercedes G-wagen
armored G-wagen would work too. decisions, decisions...
the bentley is such an unbelievable car though. its amazing how much agility and speed it has for such a heavy big plush car. and it doesn't look overwrought like the rolls royce.
armored bentley:
Quote from: veeman on July 02, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I'm not a paranoid guy but i'd feel uncomfortable commuting in a superlux car because of attention from unsavory types. Never underestimate the idiocy of a punk gangbanger who just doesn't give a shit about anything (i.e. Aaron hernandez). So which superlux car would be most comfortable and most natural to have aftermarket high grade armoring. Either a rolls royce or a bentley. I'd pick the bentley. Its more of a drivers car.
You'd hate driving my car daily then.
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2013, 07:22:14 AM
You'd hate driving my car daily then.
yeah, i wouldn't want a convertible as a daily driver even if the weather was like san diego all year round. i've been in a few convertibles and rented one for a week ( a red beetle). i remember being stopped at a busy intersection at a traffic light and was talking with someone on my phone. suddenly it dawned on me that everyone was looking at me. it felt weird and a little unsettling. i'm much more of a coupe kind of guy. cayman over boxster, for sure. plus, i have shitty f_cking seasonal allergies that kick my ass in the spring (tree pollen).
Quote from: veeman on July 05, 2013, 09:44:47 AM
yeah, i wouldn't want a convertible as a daily driver even if the weather was like san diego all year round. i've been in a few convertibles and rented one for a week ( a red beetle). i remember being stopped at a busy intersection at a traffic light and was talking with someone on my phone. suddenly it dawned on me that everyone was looking at me. it felt weird and a little unsettling. i'm much more of a coupe kind of guy. cayman over boxster, for sure. plus, i have shitty f_cking seasonal allergies that kick my ass in the spring (tree pollen).
A lot of people can't get over the feeling of being vulnerable and visible to everyone all the time. It is strange. More people talk to you in traffic as well. I've developed something of a rapport with the guy who sells newspapers on the street corner because he complimented my car one morning, and now we say hello whenever I get stopped at that light. Funny thing is, I've never bought a newspaper from him, since I have a slight OCD that keeps me from touching newspapers (or finger-painting). It's a much more social experience than being caged up in a car with a roof. It's not for everybody.
For me, right now, the ultimate DD is like a Miata. Good MPGs, quick, convertible, room for groceries. Could range up to a sporty wagon, though, depending on what kind of commute it is and how many other cars I can have.
Quote from: Rupert on July 10, 2013, 05:26:28 PM
For me, right now, the ultimate DD is like a Miata. Good MPGs, quick, convertible, room for groceries. Could range up to a sporty wagon, though, depending on what kind of commute it is and how many other cars I can have.
I could go for something like a Miata, except with a straight six, fixed roof, and bigger. In other words, not really a Miata at all.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 10, 2013, 05:30:43 PM
I could go for something like a Miata, except with a straight six, fixed roof, and bigger. In other words, not really a Miata at all.
Sounds like a Z3 or Z4 coupe.
Quote from: MX793 on July 10, 2013, 05:50:04 PM
Sounds like a Z3 or Z4 coupe.
Sounds like a 280Z to me.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on July 10, 2013, 05:30:43 PM
I could go for something like a Miata, except with a straight six, fixed roof, and bigger. In other words, not really a Miata at all.
I want a Miata that's a 2+2 fixed roof coupe with a V8 and under 150" long weighing around 2000 pounds.
Quote from: Raza on July 10, 2013, 08:50:57 PM
I want a Miata that's a 2+2 fixed roof coupe with a V8 and under 150" long weighing around 2000 pounds.
With enough room in the back seat for 6ft tall adults to sit comfortably on a long road trip, or to fit a modern child seat.
it seems that people are answering the original poster's question with a "normal" car budget. The original question stated money no limit and my assumption was also that maintenance/repair/insurance were not considerations although perhaps that's reaching as far as an assumption. However if the parameter is money no limit, that parameter only makes sense if the cost of operating such vehicle as a daily driver is also included.
Why wouldn't most people want cars at or near the superlux category given these parameters?
That's like being given an hour to get whatever you want from a high end electronics store, and picking out a cathode-ray tube while ignoring the latest greatest LCD/plasma. Makes no sense?!
Quote from: veeman on July 11, 2013, 07:25:39 AM
it seems that people are answering the original poster's question with a "normal" car budget. The original question stated money no limit and my assumption was also that maintenance/repair/insurance were not considerations although perhaps that's reaching as far as an assumption. However if the parameter is money no limit, that parameter only makes sense if the cost of operating such vehicle as a daily driver is also included.
Why wouldn't most people want cars at or near the superlux category given these parameters?
That's like being given an hour to get whatever you want from a high end electronics store, and picking out a cathode-ray tube while ignoring the latest greatest LCD/plasma. Makes no sense?!
Ultralux and supercars just don't interest me much. I mean, do you really want to be stuck in traffic in an Aventador or parallel park in one? When the road opens up and you get to have some fun, do you really want be in a Maybach 65 or Rolls Royce Phantom?
Exactly. That's why I picked a super duper version of an entry lux wagon.
Quote from: Raza on July 11, 2013, 07:40:59 AM
Ultralux and supercars just don't interest me much. I mean, do you really want to be stuck in traffic in an Aventador or parallel park in one? When the road opens up and you get to have some fun, do you really want be in a Maybach 65 or Rolls Royce Phantom?
Sorry dude. I don't believe you. You mean to tell me you'd rather daily drive your car rather than a bmw z8? Or audi r8 convertible? I understand you don't want to be in a lamborghini or rolls royce because of compromises relating to extremes of poor visibility and low ride height on the one hand and largess on the other hand, but not every supercar or near supercar is that extreme.
That's almost antithesis to being part of a car forum. I'm not talking about value. I'm talking about pick whatever you want. Whatever your heart desires.
I understand comfort food being plain and without frills. But a comfort car?
Quote from: veeman on July 11, 2013, 09:33:57 AM
Sorry dude. I don't believe you. You mean to tell me you'd rather daily drive your car rather than a bmw z8? Or audi r8 convertible? I understand you don't want to be in a lamborghini or rolls royce because of compromises relating to extremes of poor visibility and low ride height on the one hand and largess on the other hand, but not every supercar or near supercar is that extreme.
That's almost antithesis to being part of a car forum. I'm not talking about value. I'm talking about pick whatever you want. Whatever your heart desires.
I understand comfort food being plain and without frills. But a comfort car?
I've already stated that I prefer my Z4 to the Ferrari 430 I drove, so I'm not sure what's not to believe. The Z8 and R8 aren't exactly supercars in the strictest sense, really, compared to things like the Aventador and 458 or the like. The Z8's beauty might make it a compelling argument, but again, driving a really high performance car in really mundane situations can get really frustrating. You never get to open it up, you never get to feel its potential, you just pootle around in a relative sense. I want something I can really get into on a daily basis, and unless you live on a racetrack or the Isle of Man, you can't really do that with a supercar or hypercar.
There's no antithesis to being on a car forum. There's no template to being a car enthusiast. You can love the hypercars and lust after them, that's fine. You can love Volvo 240s and 240s only and you're still a car enthusiast. We don't all have to like the same things. On my watch forum, for example, you have guys who lust over quarter million dollar Patek dress watches...that I find ugly and boring. If you asked me what my ideal daily wear watch would be, it would be something like a Tudor Heritage Chronograph--"cheap" at $4,000 compared the to ultra-luxury watches of A. Lange & Sohne, Patek, and Audemars. That doesn't make me any less of a watch enthusiast or them any more, it's just different taste. Not everyone has to like the Ferrari the best or prefer the car that's fastest around a track. That's not what counts to me.
The cars that I really truly desire tend to be vintage models, with questionable reliability and poor performance compared to modern cars, and that just doesn't make for a good daily driver. The question wasn't fantasy garage, it was ideal daily driver. Sure, I'd love a 964 RS America, but that's not exactly an ideal daily driver. Neither is a Ferrari Daytona.
You're not a car enthusiast at that point. You're a Volvo 240 enthusiast.
You guys come up with every reason in the world to justify your own purchase as the best thing since sliced bread, and all other cars suck. I finally see why ChrisV got so fed up with this place. I figured car enthusiasts would actually enjoy most cars, especially things like super cars.
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 10:54:59 AM
You're not a car enthusiast at that point. You're a Volvo 240 enthusiast.
You guys come up with every reason in the world to justify your own purchase as the best thing since sliced bread, and all other cars suck. I finally see why ChrisV got so fed up with this place. I figured car enthusiasts would actually enjoy most cars, especially things like super cars.
I do enjoy them. :huh:
I just don't want to drive up and down 95 everyday in one. You seem to know everything about everything for someone who, to my knowledge, has never driven a supercar.
No, just an open mind to cars outside of my little bubble of experience :huh:
the "near" supercar or whatever category (which isn't really clearly defined) would include the bmw z8 or audi R8. The "near" supercar class has vehicles which obliterate normal cars or entry level luxury cars in almost every category that can be used to rate cars with the "driver" in mind except of course value.
this is not just speed. it includes handling, agility, stability, smoothness, shift quality, quality and craftmanship of interior materials, etc. etc.
to argue that a normal or entry level luxury car is better than all of the available "near" supercars in a summation of these driving characteristic categories which a particular person finds important is not compelling. Therefore, my assumption is that the person picking the normal car or entry level luxury car is picking it over all of the available "near" supercars because of some characteristic outside of a "driving" category.
for every totally awesome normal or entry level luxury car out there, there is going to be a "near" supercar which is noticeably better than it for what that normal or entry level luxury car is known to be good for, in terms of the driver in mind.
i understand many people would not want to drive a near supercar daily because they don't want to be that "showy". It would make them feel self-conscious and the ostentatious display of such wealth will bring them bad karma. But to say, that this normal or entry level luxury car is a better daily driving car than all of the available "near" supercars, many of which are fantastic at any speed, is well... i just don't buy into that.
the watch analogy falls a little bit short because watches are not really about telling time or any other function. Any 100 dollar digital g-shock with atomic timekeeping is going to tell the time much more accurately than a 100,000 dollar plus Breguet with a tourbillon. It's just a matter of style, history and heritage, and appreciation of mechanical craftmanship. And people start identifying themselves as likers of certain brands and dislikers of other brands. The watch just sits on your wrist as a piece of jewelry.
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
No, just an open mind to cars outside of my little bubble of experience :huh:
Um, okay.
I love how you rip on people who are turned off by cars even though they've never driven them, but you shit your pants and come in your hand over cars you've never driven and somehow that's fantastic. And yet, you can't grasp how people can respect a car, but not want it.
The question was, "What is your ideal DD?"
We answered.
Then we're told we're wrong.
I. Give. Up.
Quote from: veeman on July 11, 2013, 11:06:38 AM
the "near" supercar or whatever category (which isn't really clearly defined) would include the bmw z8 or audi R8. The "near" supercar class has vehicles which obliterate normal cars or entry level luxury cars in almost every category that can be used to rate cars with the "driver" in mind except of course value.
this is not just speed. it includes handling, agility, stability, smoothness, shift quality, quality and craftmanship of interior materials, etc. etc.
to argue that a normal or entry level luxury car is better than all of the available "near" supercars in a summation of these driving characteristic categories which a particular person finds important is not compelling. Therefore, my assumption is that the person picking the normal car or entry level luxury car is picking it over all of the available "near" supercars because of some characteristic outside of a "driving" category.
for every totally awesome normal or entry level luxury car out there, there is going to be a "near" supercar which is noticeably better than it for what that normal or entry level luxury car is known to be good for, in terms of the driver in mind.
i understand many people would not want to drive a near supercar daily because they don't want to be that "showy". It would make them feel self-conscious and the ostentatious display of such wealth will bring them bad karma. But to say, that this normal or entry level luxury car is a better daily driving car than all of the available "near" supercars, many of which are fantastic at any speed, is well... i just don't buy into that.
the watch analogy falls a little bit short because watches are not really about telling time or any other function. Any 100 dollar digital g-shock with atomic timekeeping is going to tell the time much more accurately than a 100,000 dollar plus Breguet with a tourbillon. It's just a matter of style, history and heritage, and appreciation of mechanical craftmanship. And people start identifying themselves as likers of certain brands and dislikers of other brands. The watch just sits on your wrist as a piece of jewelry.
You don't get to decide what I or anyone else should value in a daily driver, and I think that's where you're failing to see other viewpoints than yours. If your daily drive involves taking your three kids to school before a long highway journey work, you probably don't want to do that in a GT3. If you drive over horrific pockmarked roads, you might want something with a softer, more accommodating suspension. If you're single and don't care about anything else, maybe you want an Ariel Atom.
So yes, people picking normal cars are picking them because of something outside of just the driving experience. And the question is "What is your ideal daily driver?", not "What is your fantasy lottery garage?" So yes, a 335i is most likely a better daily driver than an Aventador for most people. I don't get why that's so hard to understand. People have different priorities than other people. I drive a sports car everyday. Drove top down through the rain this morning. Most people look at me like a lunatic. But my priorities are just different from theirs. I don't care to have a big trunk or a car to take a bunch of people out to lunch in. Other people do. I don't care much about comfort, clearly. The Z4 has the most punishing ride of any car I've ever driven, including the Ferrari 430 and Lotus Elise. Other people do, considering the number of Benzes and Lexuses I see in my parking lot everyday.
The watch analogy only falls short because you focus on the wrong thing--not to mention that atomic G-Shocks don't receive and atomic signal in several parts of the world and have unremarkable accuracy when not syncing (my G-Shock was less accurate than my manual wind Omega, for example). It is all about what you value. If you value accuracy above all else, yes, a cheap quartz or a more expensive thermocompensated quartz watch is the way to go. If it's mechanical precision, then you're going to want a mechanical watch. If it's a personal relationship, you're going to want a handwound watch. If you're a commercial diver, you don't want a 30m WR precious metal minute repeater masterpiece from A. Lange & Sohne.
You need to accept that other people have different perceptions, wants, needs, and values than you.
Quote from: Raza on July 11, 2013, 11:08:14 AM
Um, okay.
I love how you rip on people who are turned off by cars even though they've never driven them, but you shit your pants and come in your hand over cars you've never driven and somehow that's fantastic. And yet, you can't grasp how people can respect a car, but not want it.
It's the difference of being open minded and close minded about cars. You guys are so close minded sometimes I question whether you even like cars.
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 12:07:02 PM
It's the difference of being open minded and close minded about cars. You guys are so close minded sometimes I question whether you even like cars.
Please, I'm more open-minded than any of you. Being open-minded doesn't mean you have to like everything. Like I said, you can respect a car for its accomplishments without wanting one. It's the difference between "Car A is good at what it does, but I don't want it" and "Car A is a piece of crap because I don't want it".
e.g. "The Honda Odyssey is the best minivan in the market, but I'd rather have a GTI."
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 12:07:02 PM
It's the difference of being open minded and close minded about cars. You guys are so close minded sometimes I question whether you even like cars.
I don't like most cars because most cars are appliances built to get from Point A to Point B. I'm an enthusiast and I like fun cars. Fun cars make up a minority of the cars available. I also prefer cars that I can drive hard without getting to insane levels of speed. Having said that, I love Supercars and Hypercars and the mind blowing levels of performance they can achieve on a track, but for my personal use, I would likely never buy anything more capable than an Audi R8 no matter how much money I have. As for a DD, I picked the CTS-V Wagon because it's a fun car, comfortable car, fast car, and can carry almost anything I bring home from Costco, everything my kids usually need when going to summer camp, the beach, or when going on a road trip. If my DD must also tow my boat, then I have to get something much much less fun.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 11, 2013, 11:10:58 AM
The question was, "What is your ideal DD?"
We answered.
Then we're told we're wrong.
I. Give. Up.
i was just surprised that when given an option of pick any daily driver you want, cost no matter, many people who replied gave an example of a normal car or entry level luxury car. i then queried the rationale behind this and articulated my opinion regarding the folly behind this rationale to which i received various responses.
that pretty much sums up the format and function of most forums. usually people will dig in and defend their initial positions and occasionally people will acknowledge certain deficits in their initial assertions when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Some people will never acknowledge these deficits because, well, they can't. There's almost never a "right" answer anyways unlike what you might find in some sort of mathematics or physics forum.
The hypocrisy...it's killing me.
You like fun cars, but unfortunately most cars are appliances that get from point A to point B...but you call the LaFerrari boring.
You don't like supercars because you can't touch the capability of them on the street...but you want a CTS-V.
Quote from: veeman on July 11, 2013, 12:41:06 PM
i was just surprised that when given an option of pick any daily driver you want, cost no matter, many people who replied gave an example of a normal car or entry level luxury car. i then queried the rationale behind this and articulated my opinion regarding the folly behind this rationale to which i received various responses.
that pretty much sums up the format and function of most forums. usually people will dig in and defend their initial positions and occasionally people will acknowledge certain deficits in their initial assertions when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Some people will never acknowledge these deficits because, well, they can't. There's almost never a "right" answer anyways unlike what you might find in some sort of mathematics or physics forum.
Um, you called it a folly and then say there's no right answer? So what the fuck is your problem anyway? That people have different priorities than you do? How about for the next thread, we'll have "veeman tells you what your ideal daily driver is" and you can be happy with that?
You are really showing an inability to see beyond your own viewpoint. Why don't you just accept that people are different from you? Things will go a lot more smoothly that way.
Quote from: veeman on July 11, 2013, 12:41:06 PM
i was just surprised that when given an option of pick any daily driver you want, cost no matter, many people who replied gave an example of a normal car or entry level luxury car. i then queried the rationale behind this and articulated my opinion regarding the folly behind this rationale to which i received various responses.
that pretty much sums up the format and function of most forums. usually people will dig in and defend their initial positions and occasionally people will acknowledge certain deficits in their initial assertions when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Some people will never acknowledge these deficits because, well, they can't. There's almost never a "right" answer anyways unlike what you might find in some sort of mathematics or physics forum.
Then you flat out told us we were not enthusiasts because we picked something other than a supercar. A supercar is absolutely useless for my daily drive.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 11, 2013, 12:48:02 PM
Then you flat out told us we were not enthusiasts because we picked something other than a supercar. A super is absolutely useless for my daily drive.
But wants CTS-V. TROLOLOLOLO
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 12:51:24 PM
But wants CTS-V. TROLOLOLOLO
CTS-V wagon sounds like a pretty fun and practical daily driver....
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 12:44:46 PM
The hypocrisy...it's killing me.
You like fun cars, but unfortunately most cars are appliances that get from point A to point B...but you call the LaFerrari boring.
You don't like supercars because you can't touch the capability of them on the street...but you want a CTS-V.
CTS-V is a blast at safer speeds. For me, a LaFerrari would be boring for driving on public roads because it is designed to be driven as hard as it can go for sustained periods of time at 200 mph. I could very well be wrong that it`s going to be boring pushing 3 tenths on public roads, but I doubt it. And I love supercars and hypercars, but I can`t think of a single one that I would choose over an Audi R8 for driving on public roads. Hell, even Jeremy Clarkson says the F12 is too much for public roads and the LaFerrari is well beyond that.
Quote from: MrH on July 11, 2013, 12:51:24 PM
But wants CTS-V. TROLOLOLOLO
There`s a big difference between a CTS-V and a fucking LaFerrari asshole.
Quote from: Raza on July 11, 2013, 12:06:13 PM
You don't get to decide what I or anyone else should value in a daily driver, and I think that's where you're failing to see other viewpoints than yours. If your daily drive involves taking your three kids to school before a long highway journey work, you probably don't want to do that in a GT3. If you drive over horrific pockmarked roads, you might want something with a softer, more accommodating suspension. If you're single and don't care about anything else, maybe you want an Ariel Atom.
So yes, people picking normal cars are picking them because of something outside of just the driving experience. And the question is "What is your ideal daily driver?", not "What is your fantasy lottery garage?" So yes, a 335i is most likely a better daily driver than an Aventador for most people. I don't get why that's so hard to understand. People have different priorities than other people. I drive a sports car everyday. Drove top down through the rain this morning. Most people look at me like a lunatic. But my priorities are just different from theirs. I don't care to have a big trunk or a car to take a bunch of people out to lunch in. Other people do. I don't care much about comfort, clearly. The Z4 has the most punishing ride of any car I've ever driven, including the Ferrari 430 and Lotus Elise. Other people do, considering the number of Benzes and Lexuses I see in my parking lot everyday.
The watch analogy only falls short because you focus on the wrong thing--not to mention that atomic G-Shocks don't receive and atomic signal in several parts of the world and have unremarkable accuracy when not syncing (my G-Shock was less accurate than my manual wind Omega, for example). It is all about what you value. If you value accuracy above all else, yes, a cheap quartz or a more expensive thermocompensated quartz watch is the way to go. If it's mechanical precision, then you're going to want a mechanical watch. If it's a personal relationship, you're going to want a handwound watch. If you're a commercial diver, you don't want a 30m WR precious metal minute repeater masterpiece from A. Lange & Sohne.
You need to accept that other people have different perceptions, wants, needs, and values than you.
i am completely accepting that other people have different perceptions, wants, needs, and values. i am completely accepting that I am often wrong.
"So yes, people picking normal cars are picking them because of something outside of just the driving experience." ... Thank you. Now, I believe you :)
By the way if your manual wind Omega is more accurate than your G-shock, there is something seriously wrong with your G-shock. That... I can prove you. A very good mechanical watch will have a maximum accuracy of 2-3 seconds a day. A very inexpensive quartz will have an accuracy of < 0.5 seconds per day. That's just physics. A jewel mechanical movement cannot match the piezoelectric effect of quartz crystals for accuracy.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 11, 2013, 12:48:02 PM
Then you flat out told us we were not enthusiasts because we picked something other than a supercar. A supercar is absolutely useless for my daily drive.
dude... you're taking my postings too seriously.
Quote from: Raza on July 11, 2013, 12:46:55 PM
Um, you called it a folly and then say there's no right answer? So what the fuck is your problem anyway? That people have different priorities than you do? How about for the next thread, we'll have "veeman tells you what your ideal daily driver is" and you can be happy with that?
You are really showing an inability to see beyond your own viewpoint. Why don't you just accept that people are different from you? Things will go a lot more smoothly that way.
dude... you are taking my postings way way too seriously. settle down.
Quote from: veeman on July 11, 2013, 01:00:28 PM
i am completely accepting that other people have different perceptions, wants, needs, and values. i am completely accepting that I am often wrong.
"So yes, people picking normal cars are picking them because of something outside of just the driving experience." ... Thank you. Now, I believe you :)
I never said otherwise....We're talking about daily drivers, there are of course other considerations taken than simply the driving experience. If that weren't the case, no one would ever drive a Camry and Ariel would be the biggest car company in the world. Daily drivers are all about a compromise between driving enjoyment and practicality. Daily driving is why the sport sedan and sport wagon exist. Like I said, if we were playing fantasy garage, I'd have a lot more exciting cars on my list than, say, a 997 GT3 RS. Although, technically, I could get away with a 997 GT3 RS as my daily driver, since that's way more practical than I need. But it is a fixed top. Carrera GT then, I guess. But they are kind of long.
Quote
By the way if your manual wind Omega is more accurate than your G-shock, there is something seriously wrong with your G-shock. That... I can prove you. A very good mechanical watch will have a maximum accuracy of 2-3 seconds a day. A very inexpensive quartz will have an accuracy of < 0.5 seconds per day. That's just physics. A jewel mechanical movement cannot match the piezoelectric effect of quartz crystals for accuracy.
My Omega runs <+1 daily (when fully wound) and my G-Shock hands ran about +2-3 (the digital was more accurate than that, but the analog portion was not; as a matter of fact, my G-Shock was the least accurate quartz watch I've ever owned, even compared to my other non-G-Shock, non-atomic Casio). Most quartz watches are as accurate as you say, and there are some that are more accurate and some that are less accurate.
I would totally rock a Lamborghini every day. Probably more comfortable than my current car. :lol:
I've figured it out. You know what you guys are? You're the automotive equivalent of the neck beard who says a girls elbows are too pointy. I'll try and find the meme once this weekend. If someone could find it for me and post it, that'd be pretty appreciated :lol:
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 07:42:59 AM
I've figured it out. You know what you guys are? You're the automotive equivalent of the neck beard who says a girls elbows are too pointy. I'll try and find the meme once this weekend. If someone could find it for me and post it, that'd be pretty appreciated :lol:
:facepalm:
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 07:42:59 AM
I've figured it out. You know what you guys are? You're the automotive equivalent of the neck beard who says a girls elbows are too pointy. I'll try and find the meme once this weekend. If someone could find it for me and post it, that'd be pretty appreciated :lol:
So that makes you the automotive equivalent of the basement dweller that is so grateful for any attention from any girl you would bang the 400 lb behemoth that lives next door? Makes sense.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 12, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
So that makes you the automotive equivalent of the basement dweller that is so grateful for any attention from any girl you would bang the 400 lb behemoth that lives next door? Makes sense.
But the basement dweller gets ass. Pointy elbow man is left spanking the monkey.
That's also a shit analogy, H isn't advocating cars that are the equivalent of a "400 lb behemoth."
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 12, 2013, 09:55:09 AM
But the basement dweller gets ass. Pointy elbow man is left spanking the monkey.
Quality > Quantity
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 12, 2013, 09:55:09 AM
But the basement dweller gets ass. Pointy elbow man is left spanking the monkey.
That's also a shit analogy, H isn't advocating cars that are the equivalent of a "400 lb behemoth."
He's slamming us because we don't like everything and anything put out by every manufacturer and that we don't want to drive a fucking hypercar as a DD. It's fucking stupid, and he's acting like a fucking douche.
They're both shit analogies.
H's isn't too far off.
Quote from: Raza on July 12, 2013, 09:58:04 AM
They're both shit analogies.
Yes, they are. But he's still being an asshat.
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 12, 2013, 09:59:03 AM
H's isn't too far off.
Who, What, Where, When, and Why?
You guys are quick to criticize anything and everything about cars, but yet come up with the most convoluted, asinine, hypocritical rules to justify why your current car of choice is the best thing ever. I get it, you like your car, every one does. But to try and come up with such stupid reasons to dismiss everything else is beyond me.
Again, neckbeard dismissing gorgeous women because their elbows are too pointy.
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 12, 2013, 09:59:03 AM
H's isn't too far off.
Yeah, it is. H's is a car interior decorator who has developed an insane superiority complex over supercars and can't accept that some people don't care for them as much as he does.
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 10:49:07 AM
You guys are quick to criticize anything and everything about cars, but yet come up with the most convoluted, asinine, hypocritical rules to justify why your current car of choice is the best thing ever. I get it, you like your car, every one does. But to try and come up with such stupid reasons to dismiss everything else is beyond me.
Again, neckbeard dismissing gorgeous women because their elbows are too pointy.
Where the fuck are you getting this from? You're delusional.
Quote from: Raza on July 12, 2013, 10:49:24 AM
Yeah, it is. H's is a car interior decorator who has developed an insane superiority complex over supercars and can't accept that some people don't care for them as much as he does.
He needs to go find where ChrisV is hanging out now and be his wing man.
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 10:49:07 AM
You guys are quick to criticize anything and everything about cars, but yet come up with the most convoluted, asinine, hypocritical rules to justify why your current car of choice is the best thing ever. I get it, you like your car, every one does. But to try and come up with such stupid reasons to dismiss everything else is beyond me.
Again, neckbeard dismissing gorgeous women because their elbows are too pointy.
Again, you're arguing about supercars with two people who have both driven supercars on a track. Craig and I both have firsthand justification for our opinions on modern supercars. You refuse to accept that because it doesn't fit with what you believe. You're arguing about what other people should like. I mean, go fuck yourself with that shit. You like what you like and I like what I like, I don't know why my opinions bother you so. Get over it.
A daily driver gets scratched. It gets shopping carts banged into it. Kids spill shit all over the back seats, and occasionally, it hauls potting soil around.
I don't think I have to explain why I'd rather not do that in an R8 convertible.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 12, 2013, 11:33:48 AM
A daily driver gets scratched. It gets shopping carts banged into it. Kids spill shit all over the back seats, and occasionally, it hauls potting soil around.
I don't think I have to explain why I'd rather not do that in an R8 convertible.
You do. Your preferences are not allowed.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 12, 2013, 11:33:48 AM
A daily driver gets scratched. It gets shopping carts banged into it. Kids spill shit all over the back seats, and occasionally, it hauls potting soil around.
I don't think I have to explain why I'd rather not do that in an R8 convertible.
Bullshit. You have to want to do that.
Quote from: Raza on July 12, 2013, 10:58:39 AM
Again, you're arguing about supercars with two people who have both driven supercars on a track. Craig and I both have firsthand justification for our opinions on modern supercars. You refuse to accept that because it doesn't fit with what you believe. You're arguing about what other people should like. I mean, go fuck yourself with that shit. You like what you like and I like what I like, I don't know why my opinions bother you so. Get over it.
I couldn't care less what you guys actually like. I just enjoy poking holes in this little glass house of rules you use to justify your opinion. :huh:
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
I couldn't care less what you guys actually like. I just enjoy poking holes in this little glass house of rules you use to justify your opinion. :huh:
You can't poke holes in glass, you're mixing your metaphors.
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
I couldn't care less what you guys actually like. I just enjoy poking holes in this little glass house of rules you use to justify your opinion. :huh:
You haven't poked any holes. That's what makes this entire exchange and declaration of victory by you so fucking stupid.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 12, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
You haven't poked any holes. That's what makes this entire exchange and declaration of victory by you so fucking stupid.
Quote from: SVT666 on June 18, 2013, 12:40:37 PM
Higher the limits = less fun on public roads. Not always, but nearly always.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 11, 2013, 12:30:47 PM
As for a DD, I picked the CTS-V Wagon because it's a fun car, comfortable car, fast car, and can carry almost anything I bring home from Costco, everything my kids usually need when going to summer camp, the beach, or when going on a road trip.
Shit, why don't you want a base CTS on 185 width tires?
Quote from: SVT666 on July 12, 2013, 12:26:40 PM
Bullshit. You have to want to do that.
I'm with Soup. I'd rather do the dirty work in some glorified Camcord or poser/entry-lux car than a $100k sports car.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 12, 2013, 12:59:00 PM
I'm with Soup. I'd rather do the dirty work in some glorified Camcord or poser/entry-lux car than a $100k sports car.
Then, you're with me too. It's MrH and Veeman you don't agree with.
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 12:54:54 PM
Shit, why don't you want a base CTS on 185 width tires?
The base CTS is a fun car no doubt, but the CTS-V is much more fun, even on plebian public roads. Don't be so intentionally obtuse (or maybe you can't help it), but I was referring to supercars and hypercars when I wrote that comment and you know it (since that's what we were discussing).
F.Y.A.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 12, 2013, 01:15:30 PM
The base CTS is a fun car no doubt, but the CTS-V is much more fun, even on plebian public roads. Don't be so intentionally obtuse (or maybe you can't help it), but I was referring to supercars and hypercars when I wrote that comment and you know it (since that's what we were discussing).
So, is there a level of performance that if a car exceeds it, it's now boring because the capabilities are too high? Just trying to get an understanding here...
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 01:21:08 PM
Just trying to get an understanding here...
No, you're not. You're just being an asshole.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 12, 2013, 01:13:27 PM
Then, you're with me too. It's MrH and Veeman you don't agree with.
Ah. Sarcasm was lost upon me for a moment there.
But my issue is with a car's price tag, not its capability. To me, driving a Lambo or Bentley to work every day is like wearing bespoke tailor-fit suit and shoes to Walmart or the liquor store.
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 10:49:07 AM
You guys are quick to criticize anything and everything about cars, but yet come up with the most convoluted, asinine, hypocritical rules to justify why your current car of choice is the best thing ever. I get it, you like your car, every one does. But to try and come up with such stupid reasons to dismiss everything else is beyond me.
Again, neckbeard dismissing gorgeous women because their elbows are too pointy.
Take your pick - too heavy, too big, no diesel, no M/T, asdfjlkasefk;l['asgr=uioaejk35rklp['=-dr plus GOD FORBID IT BE A V6 CAMCORD.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 12, 2013, 02:05:50 PM
Take your pick - too heavy, too big, no diesel, no M/T, asdfjlkasefk;l['asgr=uioaejk35rklp['=-dr plus GOD FORBID IT BE A V6 CAMCORD.
Or my favorite yet...the dip in the torque curve in the BRZ ruins it.
Quote from: MrH on July 12, 2013, 02:15:51 PM
Or my favorite yet...the dip in the torque curve in the BRZ ruins it.
Meh, horsepower is better than torque...
Quote from: GoCougs on July 12, 2013, 02:05:50 PM
Take your pick - too heavy, too big, no diesel, no M/T, asdfjlkasefk;l['asgr=uioaejk35rklp['=-dr plus GOD FORBID IT BE A V6 CAMCORD.
I know what you mean. I can't believe how people would ever make a decision to purchase a car or even like a car based on their preferences. It's disgusting.
Quote from: Raza on July 12, 2013, 11:49:10 AM
You do. Your preferences are not allowed.
You think I prefer it that way? No, I'm talking about the reality my daily driver has to face.
Quote from: Raza on July 12, 2013, 02:20:15 PM
I know what you mean. I can't believe how people would ever make a decision to purchase a car or even like a car based on their preferences. It's disgusting.
You're confusing "preference" with "unjustified dismissal."
There is (pseudo) power and validation in dismissal.
:facepalm:
Thanks to the guy who started the thread...this thread is now ruined. Good job.
Quote from: Vinsanity on July 12, 2013, 01:30:39 PM
But my issue is with a car's price tag, not its capability. To me, driving a Lambo or Bentley to work every day is like wearing bespoke tailor-fit suit and shoes to Walmart or the liquor store.
Good point! I'd still pick a C7 tho! I'm single with 1 kid thats almost grown so I don't have the "Kid" issues that some other members have! And it's not so expensive that I'd cry if it got a ding or saw rain........
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on July 12, 2013, 03:49:22 PM
Good point! I'd still pick a C7 tho! I'm single with 1 kid thats almost grown so I don't have the "Kid" issues that some other members have! And it's not so expensive that I'd cry if it got a ding or saw rain........
Small dings on a Ferrari are no more expensive to repair than small dings on a Chevy.
What it comes down to is that I want to keep the "nice" car nice, so regardless of cost, normal wear and tear is more disconcerting.
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 12, 2013, 02:39:13 PM
You're confusing "preference" with "unjustified dismissal."
If I prefer to drive a manual, it is justified to dismiss a car that doesn't come with one for my personal use. :wanker:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 12, 2013, 02:38:26 PM
You think I prefer it that way? No, I'm talking about the reality my daily driver has to face.
Your reality is not allowed.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 12, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
So that makes you the automotive equivalent of the basement dweller that is so grateful for any attention from any girl you would bang the 400 lb behemoth that lives next door? Makes sense.
No, he's saying that he absolutely would bang the supermodel. You're saying you wouldn't bang the supermodel because she's just too beautiful, so you'll bang the local hot bartender instead. Still not bad, but you could be banging a supermodel...
Quote from: Raza on July 12, 2013, 04:15:03 PM
Your reality is not allowed.
I've tried telling it that: it won't listen.
Quote from: hotrodalex on July 12, 2013, 04:17:14 PM
No, he's saying that he absolutely would bang the supermodel. You're saying you wouldn't bang the supermodel because she's just too beautiful, so you'll bang the local hot bartender instead. Still not bad, but you could be banging a supermodel...
To bang a supermodel, sure! To put up with a supermodel on a day-to-day basis and live together, that may be something else.
This depends; am I on the hook for repair bills to the supermodel?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 12, 2013, 05:29:44 PM
This depends; am I on the hook for repair bills to the supermodel?
Yes. As well as the frequent, and costly, maintenance and upkeep.
Quote from: MX793 on July 12, 2013, 05:42:26 PM
Yes. As well as the frequent, and costly, maintenance and upkeep.
Sounds like the kind of thing I'd buy in spring time and sell before fall...
Realistically, Z3 coupe, E36 M3, maybe an E46 M3, thinking about a 350Z
Ideally, 996 Carrera, Z3M coupe
If I had a long commute, probably something a GTI or Golf TDI.
Ffor just a fun car give me something RWD, NA, ~250-300HP
For a commuter give me something quiet, torquey and somewhat OK handling with good room.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on July 12, 2013, 05:09:24 PM
To bang a supermodel, sure! To put up with a supermodel on a day-to-day basis and live together, that may be something else.
But also banging the supermodel every day. And really, today's supermodels aren't nearly as much of reliability nightmares as the old school supermodels. Although still expensive to maintain.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 13, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
For just a fun car give me something RWD, NA, ~250-300HP
El Camino. :rockon:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 13, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Realistically, Z3 coupe, E36 M3, maybe an E46 M3, thinking about a 350Z
Ideally, 996 Carrera, Z3M coupe
If I had a long commute, probably something a GTI or Golf TDI.
Ffor just a fun car give me something RWD, NA, ~250-300HP
For a commuter give me something quiet, torquey and somewhat OK handling with good room.
Correct answer is Ferrari FF. Sorry, thanks for playing.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 12, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
Small dings on a Ferrari are no more expensive to repair than small dings on a Chevy.
What it comes down to is that I want to keep the "nice" car nice, so regardless of cost, normal wear and tear is more disconcerting.
C7 in "Plastic" so it won't dent as easily as metal!
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 12, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
Small dings on a Ferrari are no more expensive to repair than small dings on a Chevy.
That's not 100% true. It cost more to get aluminum stuff repaired then sheet metal. Even small little stuff.
Quote from: Onslaught on July 15, 2013, 04:35:52 AM
That's not 100% true. It cost more to get aluminum stuff repaired then sheet metal. Even small little stuff.
And you're not taking a Ferrari to the local auto shop to get painted either.
I wouldn't be surprised that owing to the bespoke nature of a modern Ferrari (each car's color is logged, which is to say it's uniquely different, as there is slight variation in paint batches) that a damaged body panel demands a full-car respray.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 17, 2013, 12:49:39 AM
And you're not taking a Ferrari to the local auto shop to get painted either.
I wouldn't be surprised that owing to the bespoke nature of a modern Ferrari (each car's color is logged, which is to say it's uniquely different, as there is slight variation in paint batches) that a damaged body panel demands a full-car respray.
Only the most blindly diehard Tifosi would believe any of that.
to believe the cost to "fix a small ding" in a ferrari is equivalent to that of a mainstreamer car is naive. it is far more expensive to fix almost anything in a ferrari compared with even a mercedes.
http://ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_200008_SS.shtml (http://ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_200008_SS.shtml)
http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0006.html (http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0006.html)
sure you can try to fix it yourself or take it to a local guy who uses a tool he got off of QVC or the home shopping network. And it "might" look back to original. That's a big "might". Very few people who have the means and interest to buy a new ferrari would do that.
No, believing the Ferrari hype is naive. You think 99% of Ferrari dealerships actually man and support thir own exclusive body shop in this country?
No, most of them are not only owned by the Chevy or the Lexus dealer down the street, they use the exact same body shop folks, they just charge more.
Sure, most Ferrari owners gladly pay the extra money because they think they're getting something special. That's marketing, not reality.
And no, small dings ( the kind one might expect from careless for openers in a parking lot) do not require parts to be flown in from Italy, or for the frame to be racked, or body panels to be pulled.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 17, 2013, 03:16:34 AM
And no, small dings ( the kind one might expect from careless for openers in a parking lot) do not require parts to be flown in from Italy, or for the frame to be racked, or body panels to be pulled.
Yea Im gonna go with Cougs' first hand expertise on this one sorry.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 17, 2013, 07:48:17 AM
Yea Im gonna go with Cougs' first hand expertise on this one sorry.
What first hand experience?
I have no doubt that Ferrari dealers charge exbortitant fees. The implication that there's nothing between that and some dude with a QVC suction popper is risable.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 17, 2013, 09:06:45 AM
What first hand experience?
Sarcasm detector broken?
QuoteI have no doubt that Ferrari dealers charge exbortitant fees. The implication that there's nothing between that and some dude with a QVC suction popper is risable.
Ferraris will be more expensive to repair just because of the bodyshell materials and the paint. I will go with Onslaught's first hand experience on this one.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 17, 2013, 09:33:51 AM
Sarcasm detector broken?
Ferraris will be more expensive to repair just because of the bodyshell materials and the paint. I will go with Onslaught's first hand experience on this one.
You're not replacing body panels for minor dents. Ferrari aluminum works the same as aluminum on anything else, and these days Fords have more exotic paint jobs.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 17, 2013, 09:36:19 AM
You're not replacing body panels for minor dents. Ferrari aluminum works the same as aluminum on anything else, and these days Fords have more exotic paint jobs.
That's not true at all.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 17, 2013, 09:36:19 AM
You're not replacing body panels for minor dents. Ferrari aluminum works the same as aluminum on anything else, and these days Fords have more exotic paint jobs.
When I drove the GT-R earlier this year, the driving school was showing a video on how Ferraris are built. The paint jobs are scrutinized to a level I have never seen before. If the owner wants his Ferrari's paint job to be like factory spec, it's gonna cost more. Also, Ferraris aren't all made of aluminum. Carbon Fiber is their new preferred material. Dents are now depressions.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 17, 2013, 09:40:35 AM
When I drove the GT-R earlier this year, the driving school was showing a video on how Ferraris are built. The paint jobs are scrutinized to a level I have never seen before. If the owner wants his Ferrari's paint job to be like factory spec, it's gonna cost more. Also, Ferraris aren't all made of aluminum. Carbon Fiber is their new preferred material. Dents are now depressions.
That's easier then: they don't dent.
And your confusing paint ( as in the material) with the paint job, which to be honest, has never been that impressive. High quality by OEM standards, but lower than show quality.
Quote from: SVT666 on July 17, 2013, 09:40:35 AM
When I drove the GT-R earlier this year, the driving school was showing a video on how Ferraris are built. The paint jobs are scrutinized to a level I have never seen before. If the owner wants his Ferrari's paint job to be like factory spec, it's gonna cost more. Also, Ferraris aren't all made of aluminum. Carbon Fiber is their new preferred material. Dents are now depressions.
I'm pretty sure the only Ferrari with carbon fiber body panels is the LaFerrari. Everything else is aluminum I believe.
I wouldn't want to drive a super car around as a daily driver because for one, it'd get old real fast. My car isn't even a supercar but the type of attention that it attracts gets annoying after a while. Waving from kids is cool.. but people simply driving next to you just so they can snap a picture of your car with their cellphone and ending up swirving at you, people asking about how much does it cost.. and an assortment of other questions... like is it fast? Does it have a V8? And so on and so forth...
And of course the poor line of sight especially when you're trying to backup is pretty much the same for majority of super cars.
Not for me..
personally, at least right now.. I want to get myself a 328d wagon.. it fits the bill of what I want in a car.. semi luxury, somewhat sporty, space, and good fuel economy. 335d wagon would fit the bill better but this would do.
Unthusiast.
:lol:
Even being generous and forgetting about the more cost in removing a space-frame body panel or the repair work in non-steel body panels, not only does each body panel have custom work both before and after paint the trim pieces and ancillary things like mirrors and fender badges will be a PITA to remove/replace. For example, look how the the mirror and fender badge are mounted on a 458. Not only are they are PITA to get on and off paint application will have to be very careful (strip and repaint?) to prevent buildup on the chamfers to prevent crack/flaking when the pieces are reinstalled.
Yes, you can fix an F458 ding or dent like you would in a Camry or Malibu but it ain't really fixing it - it's in effect a hack job which many in the enthusiast world are prone to be doing but which the typical Ferrari owner isn't likely to tolerate. It's not magic to be able understand the basic materials, structure and processes of how a product is built - doubly so if a person has hand-on experience with all of those things, both personally and professionally. If an owner wants a ding or dent in an F458 repaired to factory specification it's going to cost a heckuva lot more than an average car.
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2963/3d9z.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/3d9z.png/)
There's. serious lack of reading comprehension going on here. Minor dings, such as those that represent the annoying reality of a daily driver are what I'm taking about, not major collision repair or anything that removes a body panel. And if you think that such repairs don't happen in the factory, you're deluding yourself.
Anyway, I love Ferraris, but lets not swallow the factory propaganda whole. For years they used Fiat switchgear and window motors; and to buy them from Ferrari as replacements you paid four times as much. There's a lot of special equipment in them, but it's not the paint or the body panels.
No, no lack of reading comprehension by anyone here that I see. Minor ding repair (no body panel removal) is going to be a LOT more expensive on a F458 or the like simply owning to a lot more time in removing trim pieces/hardware and getting as-factory paint match, finish and panel contour.
Yes, Ferraris are just festooned with chrome these days, and no other car ever has to have its paint matched, or the dings raised to match the already existing fender contour.
A body panel is a body panel Cougs. Unless you can provide something besides convenient speculation stating otherwise
Plus how would an owner be able to tell whether or not a body shop painted to "OEM standards"? Are Ferrari owners all body work forensic scientists? If the paint is a visual match and everything fits right I highly doubt owners look much further.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 17, 2013, 11:16:39 AM
A body panel is a body panel Cougs. Unless you can provide something besides convenient speculation stating otherwise
Plus how would an owner be able to tell whether or not a body shop painted to "OEM standards"? Are Ferrari owners all body work forensic scientists? If the paint is a visual match and everything fits right I highly doubt owners look much further.
You don't know Ferrari owners do you?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 17, 2013, 11:16:39 AM
A body panel is a body panel Cougs. Unless you can provide something besides convenient speculation stating otherwise
Plus how would an owner be able to tell whether or not a body shop painted to "OEM standards"? Are Ferrari owners all body work forensic scientists? If the paint is a visual match and everything fits right I highly doubt owners look much further.
What, you don't have one of those paint thickness measuring devices? You don't fly in a short Italian man to inspect the workmanship on your car?
Quote from: Raza on July 17, 2013, 11:42:21 AM
What, you don't have one of those paint thickness measuring devices? You don't fly in a short Italian man to inspect the workmanship on your car?
People can choose to spend all sorts of money in all kinds of silly ways. That was never a concern of mine.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 17, 2013, 11:47:06 AM
People can choose to spend all sorts of money in all kinds of silly ways. That was never a concern of mine.
People who choose to spend a bunch of money on a late-model Ferrari and going to choose to spend a bunch of money in repairing it properly.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 17, 2013, 12:09:46 PM
People who choose to spend a bunch of money on a late-model Ferrari and going to choose to spend a bunch of money in repairing it properly.
More power to them; just don't delude yourself into thinking you're getting something from the Ferrari dealership that you won't from a decent collision shop other than a higher bill. Half the time, that work is being jobbed out anyways.
Uh, why are mentioning a Ferrari dealer?
(;))
Because you are talking a out factory pecs and typical Ferrari owners, that's why. Guess where the typical Ferrari owner gets his late model Ferrari repaired.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 17, 2013, 12:46:23 PM
Because you are talking a out factory pecs and typical Ferrari owners, that's why. Guess where the typical Ferrari owner gets his late model Ferrari repaired.
(http://maaco.com/Library/images/macco_logo.png)
Quote from: GoCougs on July 17, 2013, 12:09:46 PM
People who choose to spend a bunch of money on a late-model Ferrari and going to choose to spend a bunch of money in repairing it properly.
Maybe and maybe not. I don't imagine someone who doesn't know shit about cars getting into an accident and specifying which place their cars go, be it a Ferrari or a Fiat. And again, just cause they take it to a Ferrari dealer doesn't mean the dealer is doing the work, or getting the work done to OEM standards....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 17, 2013, 02:08:10 PM
Maybe and maybe not. I don't imagine someone who doesn't know shit about cars getting into an accident and specifying which place their cars go, be it a Ferrari or a Fiat. And again, just cause they take it to a Ferrari dealer doesn't mean the dealer is doing the work, or getting the work done to OEM standards....
Given how controlling Ferrari is, it wouldn't surprise me if they required dealerships in their network to only use Ferrari approved body shops (if the shop is not internal to the dealership, and any internal body shops I'm sure would need to be approved).
Ferrari is nuts about tests, but I doubt that continues once the cars are sold. Ferrari rigging tests = (fascist) marketing. Ferrari controlling bodywork on crashed cars = wasted time & money.
I've worked on two Ferrari's at a Ford/Mazda dealership body shop. It's not that big of a deal as one would think and they aren't made out of magic.
As for my ultimate daily driver I'm going with the Aston Martin Vanquish. If it's the "ultimate" then I'm in fantasy land and money is no object. And if money is no object then I'm not going to work everyday and be sitting in traffic like I do now as a normal lowly poor person. What I'd be doing is playing golf 4-5 times a week and going downtown and parking in front of a wine bar so I can pick up hot ass. Or at the very least get drunk as shit off fine wine. And I've never known a woman that didn't love an Aston Martin so I'd probably get some too. So I can have a fast, fun and comfortable car to tool around town and pick up poon in as my DD. If I wanted to track something I'd have more cars in my massive garage.
Well, back from dream land. I'll have to stick with my cheap cars.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 17, 2013, 08:24:46 PM
Ferrari is nuts about tests, but I doubt that continues once the cars are sold. Ferrari rigging tests = (fascist) marketing. Ferrari controlling bodywork on crashed cars = wasted time & money.
Ferrari controls who can buy their vehicles. You can't buy a new Ferrari unless you are a current Ferrari owner.
Obviously, Ferrari can't make an individual owner take their car to a Ferrari approved body shop, but I'll bet my lunch that the dealerships are instructed to only direct customers to approved body shops (or to only send cars left with them for body work to approved shops).
Quote from: MX793 on July 18, 2013, 12:34:40 PM
Ferrari controls who can buy their vehicles. You can't buy a new Ferrari unless you are a current Ferrari owner.
Obviously, Ferrari can't make an individual owner take their car to a Ferrari approved body shop, but I'll bet my lunch that the dealerships are instructed to only direct customers to approved body shops (or to only send cars left with them for body work to approved shops).
I don't think that's the case. I think you can't buy higher end Ferraris unless you have another Ferrari first. You can probably buy a 458 or California if you haven't bought one before.
Quote from: Raza on July 18, 2013, 01:08:13 PM
I don't think that's the case. I think you can't buy higher end Ferraris unless you have another Ferrari first. You can probably buy a 458 or California if you haven't bought one before.
AFAIK the only models that are limited are the really exclusive ones. F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari, so on. Anyone can buy from the "regular lineup". California, 458, F12, FF, etc.
Quote from: MX793 on July 18, 2013, 12:34:40 PM
Ferrari controls who can buy their vehicles. You can't buy a new Ferrari unless you are a current Ferrari owner.
Obviously, Ferrari can't make an individual owner take their car to a Ferrari approved body shop, but I'll bet my lunch that the dealerships are instructed to only direct customers to approved body shops (or to only send cars left with them for body work to approved shops).
All dealerships have a body shop that they send work to. Regardless of the brand. I don't know if this is still the case or not but as far as I know all dealerships must have a service department and body shop. If they don't have one themselves then they must have one that works on cars for them. But just because the Ferrari dealership has a body shop they use in no way means the owner must use it. You can take your car to any shop you want.
Depends on how hot the model is, but it doesn't have to be an Enzo to be restricted. 458 might be more widely widely available now but not when it was newer.
My boss (not my direct boss, one of the sr partners) is on his 3rd Ferrari, a 458 which follows a 599 and a 575 before that. 575 was his first, and that was towards the end of its product cycle ... I think buying that first car closer to the end of its life is the price you have to pay to get allocations of newer products later on. Even then, he waited something like 18 mos for his 458.
Only on the Spin can a thread about daily drivers end up discussing Ferrari's sales policies.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on July 18, 2013, 05:36:25 PM
Only on the Spin can a thread about daily drivers end up discussing Ferrari's sales policies.
Only on Spin can people get upset when other people don't want to drive to work in an Aventador everyday.
:lol:
Only on the Spin is a LaFerrari called "boring" ;) :lol:
Quote from: MrH on July 19, 2013, 02:03:30 PM
Only on the Spin is a LaFerrari called "boring" ;) :lol:
Focus is more fun than a Ferrari
Quote from: NomisR on July 19, 2013, 02:50:30 PM
Focus is more fun than a Ferrari
Of course; M/T > DSG.
Quote from: MrH on July 19, 2013, 02:03:30 PM
Only on the Spin is a LaFerrari called "boring" ;) :lol:
:lol:
(http://www.roadraceengineering.com/suitcasecar/redcase-open.jpg)
(http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Untitled-43.jpg)
Or maybe this
Quote from: HotRodPilot on July 20, 2013, 09:59:19 AM
(http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Untitled-43.jpg)
Or maybe this
Too fast. Boring.
First option is way better. :rockon:
Quote from: HotRodPilot on July 20, 2013, 09:59:19 AM
(http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Untitled-43.jpg)
Or maybe this
Something like this is way more exciting to me than a LaFerrari. Makes more sense to drive and park regularly in public too. They should make one of these with a little hybrid system. It would prob avg over 70, 80, 100 MPG
O and we can play this game all day. "Only on the 'SPIN is it encouraged to masturbate to 'Ring times"
It makes more sense to drive a car that requires a helmet for highway speeds?
A LaFerrari would get keyed daily. And with earplugs or good headphones a helmet isn't that bad. Esp w/a windscreen
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 07:13:58 AM
Something like this is way more exciting to me than a LaFerrari. Makes more sense to drive and park regularly in public too. They should make one of these with a little hybrid system. It would prob avg over 70, 80, 100 MPG
You mixed up the medications again. Gotta be more careful.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 22, 2013, 07:15:10 AM
O and we can play this game all day. "Only on the 'SPIN is it encouraged to masturbate to 'Ring times"
No, just appreciate performance and not write off a car as boring before anyone drives it :rolleyes: