CarSPIN Forums

Auto Talk => General Automotive => Topic started by: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 07:42:30 AM

Title: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 07:42:30 AM
Centripital VVT, making for the first VVT system on a sport bike:

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--4kVaRxY2--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/tywle87vdbjxphpaw48v.png)

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gHPIUZwV--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/vhyriuzyekf3z1hf5lil.png)

http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/suzukis-new-gsx-r1000-is-engineered-around-a-loophole-i-1751372078#_ga=1.103350400.1647217322.1442923124 (http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/suzukis-new-gsx-r1000-is-engineered-around-a-loophole-i-1751372078#_ga=1.103350400.1647217322.1442923124)

With different sprocket designs they could do a lot. Obviously not the same as a hydraulic/electronic VVT system but it's better than nothing.
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: Eye of the Tiger on January 07, 2016, 07:47:48 AM
Neat, and very rudimentary. Maybe they have different slot angles for different tracks, eh. Although, it seems to me that traction managment is a far greater concern than slightly broadening the torque curve of an already terrifyingly powerful machine. More is always better.
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 08:04:42 AM
Ironically, Suzuki has the least powerful engine on the grid. But their chassis is excellent... possibly the best on the grid.

Broadening and smoothing out the torque curve on a 300HP motorcycle is actually hella critical. Honda was in the dumps last year because while their engine made crazy HP it was basically uncontrollable. Yamaha beat them with ~20 or so less HP, but a much better chassis and controllable engine. Ducati's engines make the most power on the grid, by a comical amount- there were a lot of races where they would lose out in the turns and just rocket by on the straights. But they have desmodronic valves (no springs) which enable more power without it being out of control. So outright power is definitely key.... you watch an onboard of a MotoGP bike vs something like a Ducati Panigale and it will make your head spin.... but being able to control that power is even more important.

Next year Suzuki is supposed to get more HP as well as the seamless gearbox tech everyone else has. Maverick Vinales is a fast rider too. Hopefully all that with this tech will help them get some podiums and wins. MotoGP is on a roll right now.
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: MX793 on January 07, 2016, 09:43:43 AM
Desmo doesn't really allow you to make any more power or more controlled power than a traditional sprung valve setup.
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
At 18K RPM it does.... Desmo allows for more aggressive cam profiles and from what I understand eliminates valve float. All of which make for more power and linear response. I think Ducati is the brand on the grid with the most HP, best throttle response and least reliability issues all thanks to desmo
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: Cookie Monster on January 07, 2016, 10:27:37 AM
Damn, that is an awesome design. It doesn't let them incorporate different lift or duration though, right? Just timing?
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: MX793 on January 07, 2016, 10:33:56 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
At 18K RPM it does.... Desmo allows for more aggressive cam profiles and from what I understand eliminates valve float. All of which make for more power and linear response. I think Ducati is the brand on the grid with the most HP, best throttle response and least reliability issues all thanks to desmo

The more aggressive the cam profile, the wilder the power curve.  Unless you have VVTL, a high lift desmo cam is going to be as unruly as a traditional one.  Valve spring material science has come a long way from the days when desmo was first developed as a solution to valve float.
Title: Re: All regulation is made to be gamed- Suzuki's cool "No VVT in MotoGP" workaround
Post by: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2016, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: thecarnut on January 07, 2016, 10:27:37 AM
Damn, that is an awesome design. It doesn't let them incorporate different lift or duration though, right? Just timing?
Yea just timing... a fixed adjustment for a given RPM. Not ideal but better than nothing.