A scene from the local mall...
https://twitter.com/BharathNA/status/715580466393296896
That is fucking crazy. :O
Wow, that's crazy. Apparently there are three priorities for reservations:
1. Existing Tesla owners
2. People who reserve at a store
3. People who reserve online.
I have a friend from college who's apparently #5 in line at his local store.
I have to wonder if there is going to be some massive disappointment with this car. Most of the press recites that the car "will be $35,000" when what they should probably be saying is it will "start at $35,000 and likely be in the range of $60,000 well equipped."
I thought, "wow Tesla must be doing well, this must be a ping to buy some stock"
Then I thought, "they probably hired these folks to sit in line for that exact fucking effect"
I dont trust this dude at all
That price is suitable for Bellevue (these guys would be buying Mercedes C-classes anyways), don't know about the rest of the country though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 31, 2016, 12:28:50 PM
I thought, "wow Tesla must be doing well, this must be a ping to buy some stock"
Then I thought, "they probably hired these folks to sit in line for that exact fucking effect"
I dont trust this dude at all
LOL, whatever. Several dozen folks from my office are camping in the lines. There's real excitement, just not in your bubbles.
Watching the launch now online.
There's been like 150K pre-orders in the last 24 hours
Base: $35k, 215 mile range. Don't know what options the base model will come with.
http://imgur.com/kXSTsBV,pPt6hbt,EfE0d3k,XnJKm6d,gGxIHK4,3cZ6DG2,32ra3DZ,f309ZUW,DvDTvVD,JWNOY30,q6eyXtg,ITi6L2e,kPrUv0j,74O1M7K (http://imgur.com/kXSTsBV,pPt6hbt,EfE0d3k,XnJKm6d,gGxIHK4,3cZ6DG2,32ra3DZ,f309ZUW,DvDTvVD,JWNOY30,q6eyXtg,ITi6L2e,kPrUv0j,74O1M7K)
wtf ipadPLUS dash
also it needs a grill or something on the front end. there's a perfect spot for one and it looks like it's missing something with one.
Quote from: Laconian on March 31, 2016, 11:10:51 PM
Base: $35k, 215 mile range. Don't know what options the base model will come with.
Autopilot standard
AWD optional
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 31, 2016, 11:20:18 PM
wtf ipadPLUS dash
also it needs a grill or something on the front end. there's a perfect spot for one and it looks like it's missing something with one.
I felt the same way. Makes it look Chinese.
My guess is they had to make some styling compromises to get decent numbers on a less capacious powertrain.
That interior—the 'UI' (:rolleyes:)—is the antithesis of everything I would want in a car. It is still, ultimately, a machine that propels itself: I need to know how fast I'm going. Ergo, where in the fuck is the speedometer?
The interior looks like one of those concept car interiors from the early 2000's, where you see it and think "nah, the designers were smoking something, that's never gonna be mass produced..."
(http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/hy-wire-11.jpg)
That's a muthafuckin TINY wheel!
Quote from: Laconian on March 31, 2016, 12:30:12 PM
LOL, whatever. Several dozen folks from my office are camping in the lines. There's real excitement, just not in your bubbles.
Teslas are a lot more popular in your neck of the woods, that's true. Nice cars too, and some of that excitement is appropriate.
Still, I think a certain amount of caution around Elon Musk is appropriate.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 01, 2016, 02:20:27 AM
Teslas are a lot more popular in your neck of the woods, that's true. Nice cars too, and some of that excitement is appropriate.
Still, I think a certain amount of caution around Elon Musk is appropriate.
+1
I like it. The absence of grille is on purpose- shows it's not like all the other cars.
This car will push the electric game along quite well. The price point is a big thing!!
When you compare it to it's main rival at this price point, the Chevy Bolt, it certainly looks the part and has the technology to back it up however I think the Chevy will be a better car to live with every day. Especially in areas where supercharger availability just isn't any good.
Quote from: Laconian on April 01, 2016, 12:05:06 AM
That's a muthafuckin TINY wheel!
Maybe the perspective is just skewed by the massive screen? It looks normal in this picture:
(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/384/812/2/S3848122/slug/l/p4010533-1.jpg)
That screen is retarded
I want to see the crash tests
Watched the info videos this morning.
Exterior: A+ Love the style. I see a lot of criticism re: lack of a grill, but I think it looks nice as is. Anyway since I am in NJ I will have to put a license plate there anyway. I think the overall proportions look great, which to me is the biggest styling factor for any car (proportions).
Interior: B Looks decent. I do not like the lack of gauges in front of the driver and I don't like the column mounted shifter. I am sure both work (neither is a first), but neither is my preference. If If the gear selector is just for P-D-R, I would still prefer it to be in between the driver and passenger. Otherwise everthing looks good. I don't mind the giant iPad and the seats look great.
Price/Features: A+ If what he says is true it sounds like the 35k model will be reasonably well optioned (incl. autopilot hardware and supercharger compatibility). Personally I would want AWD + the bigger battery, but 215 miles and RWD @ 35k is pretty damn nice (again, assuming he is telling the truth regarding the level of features that are standard).
More I look into it it does look pretty impressive
We will see though
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 01, 2016, 07:38:08 AM
Watched the info videos this morning.
Exterior: A+ Love the style. I see a lot of criticism re: lack of a grill, but I think it looks nice as is. Anyway since I am in NJ I will have to put a license plate there anyway. I think the overall proportions look great, which to me is the biggest styling factor for any car (proportions).
That's a good point -- it will look a lot less empty with a plate on it.
Exterior, I think it's gorgeous
But I think Elon should really stop relying on the gimmicks - with this car being at a lower price point, I anticipate problems that the Model S has with those dumb features being only amplified further.
The door handles will break, that screen will freeze (also the design team needs to be beaten for thinking this is good design) and I wonder what that all glass roof does to body rigidity.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 01, 2016, 02:20:27 AM
Teslas are a lot more popular in your neck of the woods, that's true. Nice cars too, and some of that excitement is appropriate.
Still, I think a certain amount of caution around Elon Musk is appropriate.
Elon Musk's "futuristic" adventures (Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City) would not exist without government subsidy. Same can be said about conventional automakers too but at least there is a whole lot more eco rationality and inherent business stability in a $20k Civic...
That interior looks like an Asus Monitor slapped on the dashboard.
IIRC the glass roof will be optional, not standard. Personally I would not pay extra for it, but I wouldn't be upset if it was standard.
Just watched the video. Car looks great, I'm sure it will be amazing, but I'm not buying everything he said by any means.
Fremont factory once made 500k/year. True. Tesla does not have the infrastructure or processes to get anywhere near that by end of next year. The Model X launch shows us everything we need to know.
Also, making these at a profit at $35k I don't think is possible.
It says everything when he says deliveries should start end of next year. They have zero confidence in their ability to hit timelines and volumes. Suppliers cannot afford to capacitize for a huge program like this without certainty. Basically the second they think they're ready to go full steam ahead, they'll hit a supplier capacity constraint. Right when that one gets fixed, they'll hit another.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 01, 2016, 05:43:55 AM
I like it. The absence of grille is on purpose- shows it's not like all the other cars.
+1. I'm certain that was a very intentional design decision. I can see Elon sitting in a board room asking, "Why do we need a grill for a car without a radiator?"
I have a Gen 3 Prius, & the center-mounted instrumentation works well. But, while on the Prius the cluster is mounted well forward, & so only a trivial eye deflection from the driver's center axis, that in the Model 3 is well aft of the windshield and needs a hard glance right.
(https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/47Mgwimc6tg4wDKwT2ttc7kHbGs=/1020x0/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6273085/scenic_mountain_1.0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bw1S2lp.jpg)
Imagine what this shit is going to do to the electric car market. All of a sudden, the Leaf looks like it's $5k too expensive.
Quote from: 93JC on April 01, 2016, 10:07:36 AM
(https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/47Mgwimc6tg4wDKwT2ttc7kHbGs=/1020x0/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6273085/scenic_mountain_1.0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bw1S2lp.jpg)
:clap:
Quote from: Laconian on April 01, 2016, 11:06:20 AM
Imagine what this shit is going to do to the electric car market. All of a sudden, the Leaf looks like it's $5k too expensive.
I really do want to go electric. Someday. My current commute is:
Drive to physical training, 2.5miles. Drive home.
Drive to work, 2miles, drive home for lunch.
Drive back to work, drive home.
Quote from: Laconian on April 01, 2016, 11:06:20 AM
Imagine what this shit is going to do to the electric car market. All of a sudden, the Leaf looks like it's $5k too expensive.
The The Chevy Bolt has about the same range and will be 5-10k cheaper.
And will likely stay together longer and has the support of a real dealer network.
With that said, it's a really pretty car and I want one.
This car is sort of an "iPhone" a pretty good device but technically not that different than what other manufacturers are doing.
But the packaging and product make it look more expensive and extravagant than it really is.
The more I see the exterior, the more I like it.
The more I see the interior, the less I like it.
:lol:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 01, 2016, 11:15:19 AM
I really do want to go electric. Someday. My current commute is:
Drive to physical training, 2.5miles. Drive home.
Drive to work, 2miles, drive home for lunch.
Drive back to work, drive home.
Actually, that's like the worst case for electric. You're barely scratching the surface of that battery capcity. Just burn some dinosaurs, it's not like an ICE car burns much fuel to go 6 miles. ;)
Quote from: Laconian on April 01, 2016, 11:26:17 AM
Actually, that's like the worst case for electric. You're barely scratching the surface of that battery capcity. Just burn some dinosaurs, it's not like an ICE car burns much fuel to go 6 miles. ;)
Or just ride a bicycle. :huh:
Quote from: 2o6 on April 01, 2016, 11:17:33 AM
The The Chevy Bolt has about the same range and will be 5-10k cheaper.
And will likely stay together longer and has the support of a real dealer network.
The Bolt base price is $37,500 as opposed to $35,000. And while the Tesla can be optioned up to be more expensive, I believe that would be by adding things you can't get on the Chevrolet.
Quote from: Laconian on April 01, 2016, 11:26:17 AM
Actually, that's like the worst case for electric. You're barely scratching the surface of that battery capcity. Just burn some dinosaurs, it's not like an ICE car burns much fuel to go 6 miles. ;)
Fuel efficiency drops a ton when you don't drive much. I am not going to trade in my car "just because" but I think an electric car is most likely to be my next car. My commute is short (about 5.7 miles each way). With an electric car I would never have to go to a gas station again.
The problem for myself is that I also want a car that is at least somewhat fun to drive. Most of the mainstream brands are making their electric cars FWD econo-cars. To me the big draw to Tesla would be that is a good, fun car that is electric.
If the Chevy Bolt was AWD (or RWD) and had a suspension that was designed more for fun than for comfort it would probably also be a consideration. Even a Volt/Spark or Leaf would be fine for my needs. But they are all FWD, which I do not want.
Short commutes cause oil sludge.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 01, 2016, 11:34:40 AM
Or just ride a bicycle. :huh:
I cannot speak for him, but riding a bike would sometimes be possible for me, but it would always be a hassle. Out here in the suburbs there are not many sidewalks and there are almost no bike lanes. There is no easy way to get from my house to my job without riding on roads that have little or no shoulder, yet those roads also have speed limits of 45-50 MPH. Not great for biking.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 01, 2016, 11:22:04 AM
This car is sort of an "iPhone" a pretty good device but technically not that different than what other manufacturers are doing.
But the packaging and product make it look more expensive and extravagant than it really is.
The comparison to Apple is an extremely apt one. A Nissan Model S or Dodge Model X would be DOA.
The real genius of Tesla "packaging" is the contrived notion of the thing and the government manipulation. It's brilliant. Can't wait till it all collapses though. The irrational exuberance is bound to suck resources and attention from improving IC-powered vehicles.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 01, 2016, 11:54:53 AM
The comparison to Apple is an extremely apt one. A Nissan Model S or Dodge Model X would be DOA.
The real genius of Tesla "packaging" is the contrived notion of the thing and the government manipulation. It's brilliant. Can't wait till it all collapses though. The irrational exuberance is bound to suck resources and attention from improving IC-powered vehicles.
I mean, certainly I think being "hip" is part of the draw for some people, but it is, legitimately, the only electric car that I have seen that could replace a sport sedan. For me, that is the big draw. I couldn't care less if it was made by GM, Toyota, or VW. I just would like a car that is fun to drive, and from my POV an electric car seems more practical than an ICE car.
1. The front end looks ridiculous.
2. What the hell is a Chevrolet Bolt? I thought it was a Volt.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2016, 12:29:24 PM
1. The front end looks ridiculous.
2. What the hell is a Chevrolet Bolt? I thought it was a Volt.
Bolt is the new all-electric car from Chevy. ~200 mile range.
Concept
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eoelme1rnVA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Production
(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Chevy-Bolt-showcased-640x353.jpg)
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 01, 2016, 11:22:54 AM
The more I see the exterior, the more I like it.
The more I see the interior, the less I like it.
Me too. At first glance the exterior gave off too many BMW 3 GT vibes, but the more I look at it the more I like it. The beltline seems lower, which (again, at first glance) gave the impression of the car being a little too bulbous, but I look at it again and it look fairly handsome. I don't have a problem with the idea of the lack of a grille (the Model S doesn't really have one either, after all, it's just a painted fascia piece meant to emulate a grille), but the execution of it is not great. It looks like a car that was meant to have a grille but they filled it in instead. The front still looks a weird.
The interior, on the other hand, is totally 'meh'. I despise the iPad. It looks tacked on, and I'd wager it would be awful to use. This alone would be a deal-breaker. The rest of the interior itself is just... 'meh'. If you get all hot and bothered by minimalism and think it's 'chic' then I'm sure it would float your boat. To me it looks rather bleak and dour. It's like an Apple Store.
This is also a serious problem:
https://youtu.be/16SWVS56aZU?t=3m24s
That trunk opening is not only preposterously small but it looks like anyone above four feet in height would have to duck under the trunk lid to get to it.
Jalop spoke about that
Should have been a hatchback....
Quote from: 93JC on April 01, 2016, 12:49:44 PM
Me too. At first glance the exterior gave off too many BMW 3 GT vibes, but the more I look at it the more I like it. The beltline seems lower, which (again, at first glance) gave the impression of the car being a little too bulbous, but I look at it again and it look fairly handsome. I don't have a problem with the idea of the lack of a grille (the Model S doesn't really have one either, after all, it's just a painted fascia piece meant to emulate a grille), but the execution of it is not great. It looks like a car that was meant to have a grille but they filled it in instead. The front still looks a weird.
The interior, on the other hand, is totally 'meh'. I despise the iPad. It looks tacked on, and I'd wager it would be awful to use. This alone would be a deal-breaker. The rest of the interior itself is just... 'meh'. If you get all hot and bothered by minimalism and think it's 'chic' then I'm sure it would float your boat. To me it looks rather bleak and dour. It's like an Apple Store.
This is also a serious problem:
https://youtu.be/16SWVS56aZU?t=3m24s
That trunk opening is not only preposterously small but it looks like anyone above four feet in height would have to duck under the trunk lid to get to it.
Yikes, that looks terrible. Can't believe they designed it that way. :hammerhead:
That's awful. As bad as the Mini convertibles - just a horizontal slot.
If they didn't hinge it so far up the C-pillar it wouldn't at least open up so weirdly, making you have to duck underneath to get stuff out of the trunk...
Would definitely prefer a hatchback (similar to the Model S) myself, but it seems fine. But maybe I don't use my trunk as some people. :huh:
Body rigidity has to come from somewhere. The glass roof looks like it's one piece from the base of the a pillar to the start of the trunk.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 01, 2016, 12:34:41 PM
Bolt is the new all-electric car from Chevy. ~200 mile range.
Concept
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eoelme1rnVA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Production
(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Chevy-Bolt-showcased-640x353.jpg)
Hmm. That's ugly.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Hmm. That's ugly.
Its "functional." :lol:
I agree, but I could get over the looks if it was fun to drive.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on April 01, 2016, 10:03:07 AM
+1. I'm certain that was a very intentional design decision. I can see Elon sitting in a board room asking, "Why do we need a grill for a car without a radiator?"
It's not that there isn't a grille; it's that's there's a surface there that's grille-shaped and near vertical that begs for- something other than blank space.
Lots of cars have had minimal grilles in the past without looking like their mouths were sown shut, or that something went wrong with the trimmer when it was popped out of the mold.
A teammate was going to preorder one, but got out of line when he learned that the price was going to be over $35k (disqualifying it for state tax incentives) and because Tesla will definitely run out of tax credits by the time the first Model 3 is even delivered.
He said he really just wants a safe car. I gave him a link to the Subaru IIHS scores. Now he wants a Subaru. :mrcool:
The Bolt looks a heck of a lot better than the Leaf or i3.
The thought of driving an electric car on slushy salt-laden roads spooks me. Not a fan of spontaneous combustion.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 01, 2016, 02:10:27 PM
Would definitely prefer a hatchback (similar to the Model S) myself, but it seems fine. But maybe I don't use my trunk as some people. :huh:
I use my car's hatch all the time. :huh:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 01, 2016, 02:35:59 PM
It's not that there isn't a grille; it's that's there's a surface there that's grille-shaped and near vertical that begs for- something other than blank space.
Lots of cars have had minimal grilles in the past without looking like their mouths were sown shut, or that something went wrong with the trimmer when it was popped out of the mold.
Exactly
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 01, 2016, 02:35:59 PM
It's not that there isn't a grille; it's that's there's a surface there that's grille-shaped and near vertical that begs for- something other than blank space.
Lots of cars have had minimal grilles in the past without looking like their mouths were sown shut, or that something went wrong with the trimmer when it was popped out of the mold.
:hesaid:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/VW_K%C3%A4fer_Baujahr_1966.jpg/800px-VW_K%C3%A4fer_Baujahr_1966.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg/704px-1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/%2769_Corvair_Monza.jpg/800px-%2769_Corvair_Monza.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Henry_Ford_Museum_August_2012_74_%281986_Ford_Taurus%29.jpg/800px-Henry_Ford_Museum_August_2012_74_%281986_Ford_Taurus%29.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/1st-Infiniti-Q45.jpg/800px-1st-Infiniti-Q45.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/91-94_Chevrolet_Cavalier_coupe.jpg/800px-91-94_Chevrolet_Cavalier_coupe.jpg)
Quote from: 93JC on April 01, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
I use my car's hatch all the time. :huh:
I use my trunk a lot too. I am, apparently, just not putting the huge amount of stuff other folks do, I guess. :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 01, 2016, 02:51:06 PM
I use my trunk a lot too. I am, apparently, just not putting the huge amount of stuff other folks do, I guess. :lol:
The trunk of your car is accessible and has a big opening, so it's no big deal.
(http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2012-audi-a4-4-door-sedan-cvt-fronttrak-2-0t-premium-trunk_100380561_l.jpg)
That's a lot more generous than the opening of this new Tesla's trunk.
Quote from: Laconian on April 01, 2016, 11:26:17 AM
Actually, that's like the worst case for electric. You're barely scratching the surface of that battery capcity. Just burn some dinosaurs, it's not like an ICE car burns much fuel to go 6 miles. ;)
For an ultra-short commute, there's no reason to waste time at gas stations, electric would be cheaper (once the cost of the cars comes down.)
I currently drive minivan, wife will be starting work Monday a good 20min from here so wants to drive her Impreza. Minivan gets to stretch it's legs every now and again on long trips.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg/704px-1970_Fiat_500_L_--_2011_DC_1.jpg)
I'd love to have one of these for my commute. I'd name it Luigi.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 01, 2016, 02:32:54 PM
Its "functional." :lol:
I agree, but I could get over the looks if it was fun to drive.
Being electric, I would doubt that.
Quote from: Rockraven on April 01, 2016, 02:38:46 PM
The Bolt looks a heck of a lot better than the Leaf or i3.
The thought of driving an electric car on slushy salt-laden roads spooks me. Not a fan of spontaneous combustion.
I'm sure it'll be fine.
(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2012/10/01-fisker-fire-nj.jpg)
Quote from: 2o6 on April 01, 2016, 02:17:14 PM
Body rigidity has to come from somewhere. The glass roof looks like it's one piece from the base of the a pillar to the start of the trunk.
I guess a metal roof would have been too easy :huh:
I can only imagine how much that piece of glass costs as well. Surely there was nowhere else they could have spent that money :facepalm:
But it is a legit long range EV for $35K. I feel like it could have been $25K and just as useful though.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2016, 04:07:12 PM
Being electric, I would doubt that.
Doubt what, Being fun to drive? I beg to differ, having driven a number of pure EVs and my Volt. Instant torque and a low CG is fun.
The interior looks like crap. It looks cheaper than a normal automotive interior, but definitely not better.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2016, 04:09:05 PM
I'm sure it'll be fine.
(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2012/10/01-fisker-fire-nj.jpg)
I've seen thousands of charged lithium ion batteries get smashed, pierced, and shorted by machinery at work, and we've never had a fire or explosion. Gasoline is a lot more dangerous.
The Model S interior is cheap too - almost kit car in some respects (steering column and points underneath it).
Quote from: GoCougs on April 01, 2016, 08:37:18 AM
Elon Musk's "futuristic" adventures (Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City) would not exist without government subsidy.
Okay, but companies like Boeing would not exist today without US-Export-Import bank. To some extent government subsidies can not be avoided.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2016, 04:09:05 PM
I'm sure it'll be fine.
(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/2012/10/01-fisker-fire-nj.jpg)
I want these jokes to be better.... Fisker doesn't even exist anymore, and regular cars burn up too
Quote from: Galaxy on April 01, 2016, 05:31:49 PM
Okay, but companies like Boeing would not exist today without US-Export-Import bank. To some extent government subsidies can not be avoided.
I wouldn't go that far with it. Without subsidy, Boeing, GM, etc., and other such companies would still exist, as there is mammoth material value in building and selling passenger jets and affordable passenger cars, it's that they probably wouldn't exist in their current oligopolistic form. Either way, I don't see material value in mass producing a $80k+ electric car - 4 years on and all sorts of subsidy and irrational exuberance and Tesla is still in the red with no clear path or strategy to profitability.
Lol much of the research Boeing does is subsidized by the military.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 01, 2016, 05:20:42 PM
The Model S interior is cheap too - almost kit car in some respects (steering column and points underneath it).
Yeah, I thought I was the one one who thought that parts of the model S felt....homemade.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 01, 2016, 04:49:39 PM
I guess a metal roof would have been too easy :huh:
I can only imagine how much that piece of glass costs as well. Surely there was nowhere else they could have spent that money :facepalm:
But it is a legit long range EV for $35K. I feel like it could have been $25K and just as useful though.
Couldn't you get a glass roof similar to this in the Mustang for a few years?
The thing which impresses me most about the model S is how safe it is. Consumer Reports said it was the safest car they had ever tested. Musk says the same thing will be true about the model 3.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 01, 2016, 09:32:50 PM
Couldn't you get a glass roof similar to this in the Mustang for a few years?
In the Mustang, the was a break between the roof panel and rear windshield with a fairly thick cross member. It wasn't on huge piece of glass like the Tesla.
Quote from: ChrisV on April 01, 2016, 05:13:23 PM
Doubt what, Being fun to drive? I beg to differ, having driven a number of pure EVs and my Volt. Instant torque and a low CG is fun.
Agree to disagree.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 01, 2016, 07:08:33 PM
I want these jokes to be better.... Fisker doesn't even exist anymore, and regular cars burn up too
Why do you hate cars so much?
Also, is it possible that Fisker doesn't exist anymore because so many of them caught fire?
Quote from: Raza on April 02, 2016, 03:15:12 PM
Why do you hate cars so much?
Also, is it possible that Fisker doesn't exist anymore because so many of them caught fire?
Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche sports cars self-immolate all the time are all selling like gangbusters.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 02, 2016, 03:32:10 PM
Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche sports cars self-immolate all the time are all selling like gangbusters.
Gallardos, sure. But Ferraris and Porsches?
Quote from: Raza on April 02, 2016, 03:39:10 PM
Gallardos, sure. But Ferraris and Porsches?
Porsche recently had an issue with GT3s, as I recall...
Quote from: MX793 on April 02, 2016, 03:49:37 PM
Porsche recently had an issue with GT3s, as I recall...
Ah. Had no idea.
I bet it was the DSGs that caused the fires. :dance:
Quote from: Raza on April 02, 2016, 04:26:51 PM
Ah. Had no idea.
I bet it was the DSGs that caused the fires. :dance:
By "recent", I mean sometime in the past couple of years. There was a Top Gear episode where Jezza and James were mocking Hammond for buying one and then getting a notice from Porsche telling him not to drive it
Quote from: MX793 on April 02, 2016, 04:29:25 PM
By "recent", I mean sometime in the past couple of years. There was a Top Gear episode where Jezza and James were mocking Hammond for buying one and then getting a notice from Porsche telling him not to drive it
Hmm. Don't remember those episodes.
(Of course I know gas cars catch fire with regularity; and as I recall, the Fisker was a hybrid that had a gas engine.)
Quote from: Raza on April 02, 2016, 03:39:10 PM
Gallardos, sure. But Ferraris and Porsches?
Yea, it's def meme level for Ferraris, and the 991 GT3 had a recall. Aventador has fire problems too. Cars are just too piccante
All of the coolest cars have an element of danger like spontaneous combustion. 991 GT3s, Aventadors, Fieros, Fiskers, F430s, 458 Italias...
My friend just ordered a Model 3. I'm not sure he'll stick with it though; he's got three kids, I don't see him sticking with the Model 3 as a daily driver if he can't take the family out in it.
Quote from: Raza on April 03, 2016, 12:14:22 PM
My friend just ordered a Model 3. I'm not sure he'll stick with it though; he's got three kids, I don't see him sticking with the Model 3 as a daily driver if he can't take the family out in it.
Does he have other cars? For a while my DD was Miata. :huh:
(I also owned Legacy and Sienna at the time.)
Quote from: MX793 on April 02, 2016, 05:31:58 PM
All of the coolest cars have an element of danger like spontaneous combustion. 991 GT3s, Aventadors, Fieros, Fiskers, F430s, 458 Italias...
Also, every car that ever came with a carburetor.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 03, 2016, 12:25:58 PM
Does he have other cars? For a while my DD was Miata. :huh:
(I also owned Legacy and Sienna at the time.)
His wife has a car. MDX or ML350, something like that. He changes cars often. But he also just went in on a house, and his kids are small. Two of them still need car seats.
Quote from: Raza on April 03, 2016, 03:40:49 PM
His wife has a car. MDX or ML350, something like that. He changes cars often. But he also just went in on a house, and his kids are small. Two of them still need car seats.
That's fine; they won't need car seats anymore by the time Tesla actually begins production.
Quote from: ifcar on April 03, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
That's fine; they won't need car seats anymore by the time Tesla actually begins production.
How long do kids need car seats? The one baby was just born a few months ago. Also, then wouldn't their need for space become even greater? It's possible his oldest would be able to sit in the front seat, I don't know how diligent he is about that shit. I've never, like, hung out with him and his kids. We usually hang when the kids are with his wife.
Quote from: Raza on April 03, 2016, 03:52:24 PM
How long do kids need car seats? The one baby was just born a few months ago. Also, then wouldn't their need for space become even greater? It's possible his oldest would be able to sit in the front seat, I don't know how diligent he is about that shit. I've never, like, hung out with him and his kids. We usually hang when the kids are with his wife.
It was mostly a joke about how Tesla is always years behind its promised production dates.
Quote from: ifcar on April 03, 2016, 04:05:02 PM
It was mostly a joke about how Tesla is always years behind its promised production dates.
Oh.
Judging from some of the excellent suggestions coming in on Musk's Twitter AMA, I've a feeling the mouth-taped-shut front end will be changed.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 01, 2016, 09:08:39 PM
Yeah, I thought I was the one one who thought that parts of the model S felt....homemade.
The column stocks and window switches come straight from Merc, too.
Quote from: Raza on April 03, 2016, 12:14:22 PM
My friend just ordered a Model 3.
No, your friend put down a fully-refundable deposit for an opportunity to order a Model 3 at some point in the future. He didn't order anything.
Quote from: 93JC on April 03, 2016, 08:33:03 PM
No, your friend put down a fully-refundable deposit for an opportunity to order a Model 3 at some point in the future. He didn't order anything.
Okay. Then he did that.
Quote from: Submariner on April 03, 2016, 07:51:16 PM
The column stocks come straight from Merc, too.
Aren't the window switches from the FCA or MB partsbin, too?
All MB stuff.
Do they actually give you any real switches or is everything through the fucking computer screen? Are people falling for this cost cutting trick or do they just not care?
Quote from: Raza on April 03, 2016, 03:52:24 PM
How long do kids need car seats? The one baby was just born a few months ago. Also, then wouldn't their need for space become even greater? It's possible his oldest would be able to sit in the front seat, I don't know how diligent he is about that shit. I've never, like, hung out with him and his kids. We usually hang when the kids are with his wife.
On a serious note, they should sit backwards the first 12-18months IIRC, then car seat until about 3-5yrs, (actually depends on height/weight), then booster longer than that. My kids are ultra-short so they still sit on boosters (backless) to put the seatbelt across their chests.
Mine are 10 & 11yrs old, my daughter literally is a head shorter than everyone else in her class and my son is tiny too. I was tiny till about 10th grade, then shot up to present 5'9".
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on April 03, 2016, 09:45:11 PM
Do they actually give you any real switches or is everything through the fucking computer screen? Are people falling for this cost cutting trick or do they just not care?
Wat are u talking about
You don't like having to dig through menus to open and close your windows? It's the future brah
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 04, 2016, 07:04:13 AM
Wat are u talking about
You don't like having to dig through menus to open and close your windows? It's the future brah
I like buttons that get harder to see the more you use them. Also, as someone who wears gloves when he drives often, I like when I can't use the buttons without pulling over and taking my gloves off.
I like digital setting selectors that take the place of dialss that allow me not to feel where the setting is just by the position of the dial.
I like buttons and dials and switches that don't work unless I take my eyes off the road 15 times to get to the right page of the menus
I like to wipe off the fingerprints from my HVAC controls before leaving for work in the morning.
What happens if it's winter and your fingers got frozen to the glass of the touchscreen? You'd have to piss on the screen. Then your piss would freeze then soon melt and run down into the battery pack, which would short & catch fire... and you'd die a horrible death because the piss had also shorted the electronics and locked the doors.
And they'd find your body. And they'd wonder why your todger was outside your pants, and what it is was you were watching on the display screen.
Teslas are just so sexy bro. Todger was out because dude got to be inside of a Tesla. DUH
Not to poop ze party but they do make gloves you can operate touch screens with
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 05, 2016, 07:03:20 AM
Not to poop ze party but they do make gloves you can operate touch screens with
I used them for the Volt in the winter. And for my phone. Easy peasy.
Yay! I've always wanted to have to use gloves to operate my car's HVAC!
:hammerhead
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 05, 2016, 10:02:55 AM
Yay! I've always wanted to have to use gloves to operate my car's HVAC!
:hammerhead
wat?
You don't HAVE to use gloves. :confused:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 04, 2016, 10:31:32 AM
I like buttons and dials and switches that don't work unless I take my eyes off the road 15 times to get to the right page of the menus
I do like things I can find by feel; and I do like a dark cockpit in many situations; but let's be fair here. Tesla isn't alone on touchscreen abuse.
Quote from: ChrisV on April 05, 2016, 09:15:48 AM
I used them for the Volt in the winter. And for my phone. Easy peasy.
My knobs and buttons work great in all weather.... seems this is a solution for an invented and unnecessary problem
Quote from: BimmerM3 on April 05, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
wat?
You don't HAVE to use gloves. :confused:
No shit dude. My point is the fact that it has to be brought up as a solution to use at certain times is ridiculous in the first place.
It's gotten to the point that my 99.9% requirement for a new car is no touch screen or joystick, and at this point I'll only bend for Apple CarPlay. It's sad how few cars comply, and virtually none do in the poser class, save for a stripped S4 (but you'd probably have to order it) or S3.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 05, 2016, 03:10:00 PM
It's gotten to the point that my 99.9% requirement for a new car is no touch screen or joystick, and at this point I'll only bend for Apple CarPlay. It's sad how few cars comply, and virtually none do in the poser class, save for a stripped S4 (but you'd probably have to order it) or S3.
CarPlay is magnificent. Absolutely magnificent.
Quote from: CJ on April 05, 2016, 03:10:40 PM
CarPlay is magnificent. Absolutely magnificent.
Sure, it's better than anything the automakers can dream up but Apple has shown abject disregard for life cycle and care/feeding of its products - iCloud, Maps, iTunes, etc. 3-5 years is a lifetime in consumer electronics but nothing in the auto world, esp. for personal ownership. For the iOS released 3-5 years from now how much effort will Apple have expended in making sure CarPlay works well in a MY2015 car? Later versions of iOS has had issues with the early generations of iPod-kosher in-car infotainment. I get it in the G at times now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 05, 2016, 01:14:01 PM
My knobs and buttons work great in all weather.... seems this is a solution for an invented and unnecessary problem
Already need to use gloves in the winter, and need these types of gloves to use my phone. So just to continue to wear them in the car is a no brainer and solves the problem. I wear the gloves in any car in the winter, not just the Volt.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 05, 2016, 01:24:54 PM
No shit dude. My point is the fact that it has to be brought up as a solution to use at certain times is ridiculous in the first place.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 05, 2016, 10:02:55 AM
to have to use gloves
:huh:
I'm not even really disagreeing with you, but it was a pretty dumb way to make your point.
There will apparently be some pretty strong features unveiled for the 3 at some point before the on sale date. Musk says the event was part 1 of the intro and part 2 is still to come.
If my next base is in a place conducive to owning one I'll strongly consider a bare bones model.
Quote from: Rich on April 06, 2016, 05:12:48 AM
There will apparently be some pretty strong features unveiled for the 3 at some point before the on sale date. Musk says the event was part 1 of the intro and part 2 is still to come.
If my next base is in a place conducive to owning one I'll strongly consider a bare bones model.
Features or gimmicks?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 06, 2016, 06:47:07 AM
Features or gimmicks?
No one knows, part 2 hasn't happened yet.
For how many preorders they have now, it'll be 3 years until they fill them all. I'll wait until they've got steady production going before even considering something like a Model 3.
Quote from: MrH on April 06, 2016, 07:32:51 AM
For how many preorders they have now, it'll be 3 years until they fill them all. I'll wait until they've got steady production going before even considering something like a Model 3.
I wouldn't be settled in the states for at least over a year from now anyway. I wouldn't mind waiting either.... I'd be keeping the Miata. And if my next base is in the States, I'll probably pick up a used Mustang until I picked up a 3 (if I end up wanting to buy one). If I stay overseas the 3 might be out by the time I return anyway.
Quote from: Rich on April 06, 2016, 05:12:48 AM
There will apparently be some pretty strong features unveiled for the 3 at some point before the on sale date. Musk says the event was part 1 of the intro and part 2 is still to come.
If my next base is in a place conducive to owning one I'll strongly consider a bare bones model.
I can't stand the way Musk promotes. His marketing strategy is clickbait. "You won't BELIEVE what we reveal at the NEXT debut"
And yea, this deposit shit has just amounted to an interest free open term loan :facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 06, 2016, 08:52:03 AM
I can't stand the way Musk promotes. His marketing strategy is clickbait. "You won't BELIEVE what we reveal at the NEXT debut"
And yea, this deposit shit has just amounted to an interest free open term loan :facepalm:
Yep, exactly. On pretty much vapor ware too. With no history on being able to scale up like that.
Quote from: MrH on April 06, 2016, 10:26:00 AM
Yep, exactly. On pretty much vapor ware too. With no history on being able to scale up like that.
As I've said since almost the beginning, the brilliance of Tesla is the in the snake oil tactics - against government, partner corps, and of course WtP, esp. under the auspices of "green" energy.
My mom wants one now but now I'm nervous about this scaling up business.
Tesla has been scaling up like crazy over the past few years:
(https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/chartoftheday_4586_tesla_deliveries_and_pre_orders_n.jpg)
But if they continue to scale up S/X production like they have historically, plus start Model 3 production (and who knows how many preorders they'll have by the time they roll it out), that's a whole new ball game. Plus, that level of growth isn't sustainable and at some point they're going to hit physical constraints.
The deposit is refundable so it's not a huge deal to throw it down now, but with the scaling up issues and potential lack of any rebates since they're building so many, it doesn't seem as desirable now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 06, 2016, 08:52:03 AM
I can't stand the way Musk promotes. His marketing strategy is clickbait. "You won't BELIEVE what we reveal at the NEXT debut"
And yea, this deposit shit has just amounted to an interest free open term loan :facepalm:
Isn't that how Tucker got burned?
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 06, 2016, 10:38:23 AM
My mom wants one now but now I'm nervous about this scaling up business.
Tesla has been scaling up like crazy over the past few years:
(https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/chartoftheday_4586_tesla_deliveries_and_pre_orders_n.jpg)
But if they continue to scale up S/X production like they have historically, plus start Model 3 production (and who knows how many preorders they'll have by the time they roll it out), that's a whole new ball game. Plus, that level of growth isn't sustainable and at some point they're going to hit physical constraints.
The deposit is refundable so it's not a huge deal to throw it down now, but with the scaling up issues and potential lack of any rebates since they're building so many, it doesn't seem as desirable now.
Tesla has been ramping up admirably IMHO, but that chart is a little weird as it is showing cumulative sales each year. But we can math out the following (assuming it is accurate):
2013: 22,400
2014: 32,000 (+43%)
2015: 50,000 (+56%)
2016: 80,000-90,000 (+60-80%)
If they continue to just grow at just the average 2014-2016 rate we can expect the following:
2017: 133,000
2018: 208,000
2019: 325,000
2020: 508,000
If we instead assume that their growth has actually been accelerating, we could come up with the following:
2017: 157,000
2018: 316,000
2019: 689,000
2020: 1,626,100
Note their Fremont facility has a theoretical max capacity of 500k according to what I have seen. So based on the above I am not sure why anyone would consider what they are proposing as "vaporware." Tesla has a visible track record of growing production at a pretty impressive pace already. I think the first set of growth figures is very plausible.
They are having supply problems with their SUV (stupid doors)
I forsee supply problems with the fishbowl roof on the 3. Either way a lot of people are going to be waiting a long time for their 3s. And with the political climate I could see them getting rid of the govt credit (which is kind of asinine for $90K cars in the first place)
Tesla will eventually ramp up - it'll go about like the Model S - late, and fraught with problems (including product quality problems), but it'll happen. Manufacturers the world over go through the same process/challenges.
Beyond the socio-political weirdness of the existence of Tesla, the big unknown IMO is, Will average people buy into/afford the culture? The Model S tapped into the Alpha Apple/iThingy mentality to extreme measure - mostly for the rich/wannabees as a 3rd car/plaything/status symbol. This car is not for that, nor will this car approach the quality or reliability of Civic or Camry.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 06, 2016, 11:18:26 AM
Note their Fremont facility has a theoretical max capacity of 500k according to what I have seen.
FYI that 500,000 figure is historical: GM built the factory in the sixties and, at one point, assembled about half a million cars per year there.
Quote from: MrH on April 06, 2016, 10:26:00 AM
Yep, exactly. On pretty much vapor ware too. With no history on being able to scale up like that.
On the other hand, it was widely speculated that they'd never successfully switch from putting laptop batteries in a couple hundred Lotuses to mass-producing the Model S.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 06, 2016, 11:18:26 AM
Tesla has been ramping up admirably IMHO, but that chart is a little weird as it is showing cumulative sales each year. But we can math out the following (assuming it is accurate):
2013: 22,400
2014: 32,000 (+43%)
2015: 50,000 (+56%)
2016: 80,000-90,000 (+60-80%)
If they continue to just grow at just the average 2014-2016 rate we can expect the following:
2017: 133,000
2018: 208,000
2019: 325,000
2020: 508,000
If we instead assume that their growth has actually been accelerating, we could come up with the following:
2017: 157,000
2018: 316,000
2019: 689,000
2020: 1,626,100
Note their Fremont facility has a theoretical max capacity of 500k according to what I have seen. So based on the above I am not sure why anyone would consider what they are proposing as "vaporware." Tesla has a visible track record of growing production at a pretty impressive pace already. I think the first set of growth figures is very plausible.
Except this time they're going to have to keep scaling up Model S/X production like they have been historically, and also release a new product with a crap ton of demand behind it. If they rush the Model 3 to the market to take advantage of all this demand, they might have a half baked product that will ruin them. If they take too long in releasing it, people are going to get pissed and cancel their deposits and go with something else. This is definitely uncharted territory even for Tesla so I don't think relying on historical data and saying that they can continue that growth going forward is necessarily appropriate.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on April 06, 2016, 02:25:33 PM
Except this time they're going to have to keep scaling up Model S/X production like they have been historically, and also release a new product with a crap ton of demand behind it. If they rush the Model 3 to the market to take advantage of all this demand, they might have a half baked product that will ruin them. If they take too long in releasing it, people are going to get pissed and cancel their deposits and go with something else. This is definitely uncharted territory even for Tesla so I don't think relying on historical data and saying that they can continue that growth going forward is necessarily appropriate.
We will see, but even a much slower pace of growth would still be plenty. If they are already on track to build ~80-90k Model S and Model X, they shouldn't have too much trouble just matching that volume with the model three. The only thing that looks remotely "new" with the Model 3 is the big glass roof, but technologically speaking there is nothing really special about it. Other than the cost to produce such a large piece of glass there is nothing inherently difficult or technologically impressive about it.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 06, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
We will see, but even a much slower pace of growth would still be plenty. If they are already on track to build ~80-90k Model S and Model X, they shouldn't have too much trouble just matching that volume with the model three. The only thing that looks remotely "new" with the Model 3 is the big glass roof, but technologically speaking there is nothing really special about it. Other than the cost to produce such a large piece of glass there is nothing inherently difficult or technologically impressive about it.
In my experience with Tesla, they're producing their current volume by burning through people in the process. Their processes and systems aren't mature enough to just double the volume.
Quote from: MrH on April 06, 2016, 04:38:20 PM
In my experience with Tesla, they're producing their current volume by burning through people in the process. Their processes and systems aren't mature enough to just double the volume.
Maybe, but they more than doubled their volume from 2013 to 2015 and they appear to be on track to more than double their volume between 2014 and 2016. So why would we assume they cannot do it again between 2016 and 2018 (and then again from 2018 to 2020)? History says they can do it. You might not know how they will do it...heck they might not even know how they will do it yet...but their historical performance certainly indicates they will find a way to do it.
They may in fact not be able to do it, but there is no objective indication that such a thing will happen. It is perfectly reasonable to assume they will in fact be able to continue to grow at their current pace. :huh:
related discussion, little about drive wheels some about the "deposits"...
http://blog.caranddriver.com/tesla-ceo-clarifies-model-3-features-reservation-tally-via-twitter-we-explain-what-happens-to-all-that-deposit-money/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/tesla-ceo-clarifies-model-3-features-reservation-tally-via-twitter-we-explain-what-happens-to-all-that-deposit-money/)
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 06, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
We will see, but even a much slower pace of growth would still be plenty. If they are already on track to build ~80-90k Model S and Model X, they shouldn't have too much trouble just matching that volume with the model three. The only thing that looks remotely "new" with the Model 3 is the big glass roof, but technologically speaking there is nothing really special about it. Other than the cost to produce such a large piece of glass there is nothing inherently difficult or technologically impressive about it.
I don't know man. Up level versions of the model S and the new SUV have super car speed. The SUV is as fast as a Ferrari Enzo. The up level versions of the model 3 will likely have amazing acceleration times as well. The model S was rated as the safest car Consumer Reports has ever tested in terms of crash test results. The model 3 will likely be the same. Although the front end of the model 3 is kinda goofy, the profile of the car looks very very good IMHO. Compare the external look of this car with that of the Chevy Bolt. The Bolt isn't bad but, to me, doesn't have the curb appeal as the model 3.
And "not bad" is not what is going to sell electric cars. They need to be different.
First time I saw a Tesla it was parked in front of a fancy "for the stars" diner right outside Nashville. Said diner had a free charger installed, and a spot reserved for EV cars, back in 2012.
People were gawking and taking pictures of the car like you wouldn't believe. They just look sexy.
Prius sold like crazy cuz it was 'cool' but different than the rest. (hybrid civics anyone? who cares?!?!?!!!) Tesla needs to maintain that their cars are different than all the cars before it- because they are. No need for that giant lump under the hood in front. Etc...
Being uniquely styled gets attention, but it's not just a matter of style. The style makes people pay attention to the substance that's there. The Model S isn't just pretty, it's also a great car. Contrast that to the Fisker Karma, which wasn't hurting for stylistic expression but just wasn't at the same level in terms of engineering or practicality.
In the case of the Prius, it also wasn't just a matter of styling -- the Prius was also roomier and more fuel-efficient than the Civic. That was the case even in the unstylish first generation. Meanwhile the first Insight was the most eye-catching hybrid of all, but it lacked practicality.
Quote from: ifcar on April 07, 2016, 08:16:42 AM
Meanwhile the first Insight was the most eye-catching hybrid of all, but it lacked practicality.
Interesting, didn't know it wasn't as practical. Honestly I thought it always looked too weird, never liked it.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 07, 2016, 08:50:12 AM
Interesting, didn't know it wasn't as practical. Honestly I thought it always looked too weird, never liked it.
It's a two-seater.
Quote from: ifcar on April 07, 2016, 08:53:01 AM
It's a two-seater.
ahhhh! So silly, not many buy two seaters anyway.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 05, 2016, 07:03:20 AM
Teslas are just so sexy bro. Todger was out because dude got to be inside of a Tesla. DUH
Not to poop ze party but they do make gloves you can operate touch screens with
They do. I actually have a pair. Still, with no tactile component to the operation, you have to take your eyes off the road to use it.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 07, 2016, 05:48:03 AM
Maybe, but they more than doubled their volume from 2013 to 2015 and they appear to be on track to more than double their volume between 2014 and 2016. So why would we assume they cannot do it again between 2016 and 2018 (and then again from 2018 to 2020)? History says they can do it. You might not know how they will do it...heck they might not even know how they will do it yet...but their historical performance certainly indicates they will find a way to do it.
They may in fact not be able to do it, but there is no objective indication that such a thing will happen. It is perfectly reasonable to assume they will in fact be able to continue to grow at their current pace. :huh:
Well, it doesn't work that way though, does it? Nobody can grow by 200% year after year. Companies show huge growth sometimes to match a market, but to assume they'll continue doing so belies common sense.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 07, 2016, 08:50:12 AM
Interesting, didn't know it wasn't as practical. Honestly I thought it always looked too weird, never liked it.
I still want one.
Of course I also want to drop a hot rod B-series motor into it and remove the electrics, just to have a 1700 lb rat racer, but I do want one.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 07, 2016, 03:36:59 PM
I still want one.
Of course I also want to drop a hot rod B-series motor into it and remove the electrics, just to have a 1700 lb rat racer, but I do want one.
I think CRZ would look better for that. :lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 07, 2016, 03:35:09 PM
Well, it doesn't work that way though, does it? Nobody can grow by 200% year after year. Companies show huge growth sometimes to match a market, but to assume they'll continue doing so belies common sense.
What you are talking about is lack of demand.
But in Tesla's case the demand is pretty evident, at least in the short term. Apart from that, I am not talking 200% growth per year, more like 50% growth per year (still a lot I know). I am also only talking about doing it for a few more year, until they get to around 500k units per year, which in the grand scheme of auto manufacturers is still actually pretty small. I think starting a whole new factory will be more difficult for them then just filling up the capacity at their current factory.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 07, 2016, 03:39:56 PM
I think CRZ would look better for that. :lol:
I really liked the CRZ until I found out it was a two-seater. It would only ever be a commuter car for me, which wouldn't make sense as a two-seater, since I already have a sports car, which is by definition a two-seater. Even as a 2+2, it would be a hard sell as a daily driver, but it would be a step above a two-seater. FWD, great gas mileage, 6MT; the CRZ is a strong commuter car on paper. But the seats are a killer.
I had no idea the CR-Z was a two-seater. I mean, I must have at some point because I've actually been inside one, but I either didn't notice or just forgot. I could have sworn it was a 2+2. It turns out it actually is a 2+2 outside of North America: for some godforsaken reason they yanked the back seats out of the North American version of the car.
N.A.:
(http://www.geek.com/gearlog/images/20110214-29-HondaCRZ.jpg)
R.O.W.:
(http://www.thetorquereport.com/2011_honda_cr-z_euro_21.jpg)
:nutty:
Quote from: 93JC on April 08, 2016, 05:53:07 PM
I had no idea the CR-Z was a two-seater. I mean, I must have at some point because I've actually been inside one, but I either didn't notice or just forgot. I could have sworn it was a 2+2. It turns out it actually is a 2+2 outside of North America: for some godforsaken reason they yanked the back seats out of the North American version of the car.
N.A.:
(http://www.geek.com/gearlog/images/20110214-29-HondaCRZ.jpg)
R.O.W.:
(http://www.thetorquereport.com/2011_honda_cr-z_euro_21.jpg)
:nutty:
Yeah, I actually knew that. What a weird decision.
Safety reg reasons? Headroom reasons? Weird.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 08, 2016, 06:14:15 AM
What you are talking about is lack of demand.
But in Tesla's case the demand is pretty evident, at least in the short term. Apart from that, I am not talking 200% growth per year, more like 50% growth per year (still a lot I know). I am also only talking about doing it for a few more year, until they get to around 500k units per year, which in the grand scheme of auto manufacturers is still actually pretty small. I think starting a whole new factory will be more difficult for them then just filling up the capacity at their current factory.
No, im talking about exponential growth, which isn't sustainable year after year. Anyways, you're not looking at just Tesla growing; but Their supply chain as well, which they are already starting to have real difficulties with. Having a banner year or two is one thing; but from here on out the outlook needs to be more long term.
Quote from: giant_mtb on April 08, 2016, 06:45:14 PM
Safety reg reasons? Headroom reasons? Weird.
They knew about the compact Honda buyers need for massive bass, and made room.
It was safety reasons.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 08, 2016, 06:56:23 PM
No, im talking about exponential growth, which isn't sustainable year after year. Anyways, you're not looking at just Tesla growing; but Their supply chain as well, which they are already starting to have real difficulties with. Having a banner year or two is one thing; but from here on out the outlook needs to be more long term.
Again, they have been doing it. Not only growing a lot, but the rate of growth actually increasing.
Will it fall off sometime? Sure. But at their current rate they only need to do it for another couple years. I mean, just keep doing it this year with the current cars, and then add one more production like for the Model three. I am not talking 10 years of growing at this rate after all. Either way we will see what happens pretty soon.
Guys... I'm pretty sure everyone who is putting their name down for a Model 3 realizes that it's going to take awhile to take delivery. That's why they're putting the deposit down now - so they don't have to wait even longer.
Save for straight line speed, they seem like epic pieces of shit to me.
Electrics are fantastic for "regular" driving in my experience. Not good yet on a mountain road or, of course, on a track.
I however, can't fathom waiting 3 years for this thing. I am 99% sure the Germans by then will have excellent alternatives.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 01, 2016, 10:13:09 AM
Electrics are fantastic for "regular" driving in my experience. Not good yet on a mountain road or, of course, on a track.
I however, can't fathom waiting 3 years for this thing. I am 99% sure the Germans by then will have excellent alternatives.
+1
One of the problems of big reveals and then a long wait time is that everyone else has time to catch up and the initial excitement dies down.
Tesla is doing a great job of getting people excited for real electric cars and I think GM, BMW, Ford, etc. will be the ones who eventually turn it into a reality for everyone.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 01, 2016, 11:04:22 AM
+1
One of the problems of big reveals and then a long wait time is that everyone else has time to catch up and the initial excitement dies down.
Tesla is doing a great job of getting people excited for real electric cars and I think GM, BMW, Ford, etc. will be the ones who eventually turn it into a reality for everyone.
BMW announced today a facelifted i3 now with 120mi range. It sure beats the one-year-away Tesla model 3 today. By the time the model 3 starts arriving in volume it is very likely that competitive alternatives will exist. With Tesla's track record of delays, we're looking at mid to late 2017 for any volume - with most reservations being filled in 2018 and beyond. I am not sure that they announcing their huge reservation numbers was that smart. Good for the stock price today but also a huge free market research exercise & data for very capable competitors.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/05/01/world-premiere-2017-bmw-i3-debuts-higher-density-battery/ (http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/05/01/world-premiere-2017-bmw-i3-debuts-higher-density-battery/)
Well, if the Model 3 is anything like the Model S, Tesla has used its low center of gravity to make a car that's fun to drive in addition to its electric abilities. The i3 is just a neat economy car in comparison.
Quote from: ifcar on May 01, 2016, 07:24:40 PM
Well, if the Model 3 is anything like the Model S, Tesla has used its low center of gravity to make a car that's fun to drive in addition to its electric abilities. The i3 is just a neat economy car in comparison.
I am not saying the i3 is competitive with the Model 3. Just that it is here today and the improvements on it signal that something really competitive with the Model 3 will probably be a reality from other players before most of those reservations are filled.
For what it's worth, I think the i3 was pretty fun to drive.