So I got arrested Monday night.
Catman- I was wondering if you might be able to answer some questions I have. I'll provide the story so you know the details...
Two buddies and I were headed to Vermont to go skiing Monday night. At about 10:30 we were driving down I-81 in New Hampshire when we were pulled over for 81 in a 65. My buddy who's car it is was driving, I was riding shotgun, another in the back seat. It's a Jeep Grand Cherokee, so the trunk is visible from the road. We had two 24s of Bud Lite in the back, very poorly covered by a jacket. The cop said he would give us only a warning (which was fair seeing as the only cars on the road this time of night were us and an 18 wheeler), but then asked if we had any beer. Not so much asked as kind of stated and waited for us to respond. Knowing that the beer was only half covered and he had probably seen it (he shined his light through the car as he walked up) we said yes, two 24s. He pulled my friend, the driver out, spoke with him for awhile and then came back to the car and told my friend and I to get out. He then informed us he would be taking us in to custody for possession of alcohol as a minor because "we take this very seriously up here" and said he would have to have the car towed. So the three of us sat in the back of the cruiser and watched as my friends Jeep was hauled off- THAT was a painful sight! We were then taken to a local station (statie pulled us over) and waited for an hour until the guy who arranges bail came by. We signed all sorts of forms and posted $30 bail each, and received summons to appear in Newport District Court (NH) Feb. 7. The arresting officer had informed us earlier that we would need a "responsible adult" to come get us out. He said he would not release us even though we are all over 18, and he would not release us to anyone over 18, had to be a "responsible adult". Upon my asking, he provided no other information. So I called a friend who lives in the area and her father very kindly came up and got us out. The cop also called all of our parents, even though all of us are over 18. So now my quesitons:
1. At no point were we read out rights. Is this legal?
2. We were not allowed to pay our bail and leave, even though we are all legal adults. Is this legal?
3. He called our parents even though we are all legal adults. Is this legal?
Assuming that the state trooper made errors in those instances, would it be possible to get the case thrown out? Arraignment is scheduled for Feb. In the state of NH, this is a criminal offense. If I could somehow make this go away, it would be nice. Catman, what is your opinion based on experience of the ability to erase this on a technicality like that. Thanks for any help...
-Josh
Gotta love those NH staties. :rolleyes:
Good luck finding answers. I really wonder why they wouldn't let you go even though you were over 18 and posted bail. Do they make 50 year olds call their grandparents to get them out of jail? :D
How was skiing, or did this ruin the trip?
I'd be pissed if that was me. I'm anxious to see what Catman has to say about your questions...
J86, sorry to hear about your problems, man. That really sucks.
I'll defer to Catman's answer when he responds, but I suggest you retain a local lawyer. This case is just screaming to be knocked down to something inconsequential, if not dismissed. I don't know about all the legalities of calling parents if you're over 18, but I think it is a common practice with alcohol offenses. You need a lawyer who knows how to manipulate the system, and get you off with a light fine and something that won't go on your record in any way.
Good luck, man, and let me know how it turns out.
Quote1. At no point were we read out rights. Is this legal?
2. We were not allowed to pay our bail and leave, even though we are all legal adults. Is this legal?
3. He called our parents even though we are all legal adults. Is this legal?
That sucks man. :( I have the unfortunate feeling though that the police officers didn't do anything illegal there.
Was the beer good?
By any chance, was it near Keene, NH?
well first I suggest you google up the law about driving with alcohol in NH, and find out if there are any loop holes or something where a lawyer can help you out, also find out what degree misdemeanor it is
For example, im not sure if you remember the thread I posted about being stopped by a cop for racing, but I went and googled the law against racing in FL and find out it was a 2nd degree misdemeanor ( i think there going to change it to a 1st degree this new year) so ya it was pretty bad, but even with that I went to court without a lawyer, plead guilty and got out VERY easy, the prosecuter put me on a pre-trial diversion where all I had to do was pay $60 and do 20hrs of community service wherever I wanted. But you have to have a CLEAN record for them to give you a pre-trial diversion like they did for me
If you have a clean record then I suggest you call up your prosecuter,or even better I suggest you go meet him in person so you can show him that you really care, and ask him what options you have.
Thats almost all the advice I can give, hope it helps :)
Speed_Racer: tell me about it. I can't stand that state! My one speeding ticket is from NH as is this mess, so much for "Live Free or Die". More like "Life Free or Die, unless you are a college kid we can make a buttload of money off of"! Skiing wasn't bad, went up to Sugarbush for a day, had to cut it short though as we blew all of our money on the ride up...
dazzle- Am talking to some friends whose parents are lawyers, will get their input and keep my fingers crossed.
mazda- Unfortunately, I think you are probably right, or at least they did nothing that would make a judge toss it.
Colonel- It was Bud Lite, so... Happened in Grantham, NH.
Lazerous- I will be there plenty early. Unfortunately, this is a criminal offense, not a misdemeanor.
QuoteSpeed_Racer: tell me about it. I can't stand that state! My one speeding ticket is from NH as is this mess, so much for "Live Free or Die". More like "Life Free or Die, unless you are a college kid we can make a buttload of money off of"! Skiing wasn't bad, went up to Sugarbush for a day, had to cut it short though as we blew all of our money on the ride up...
dazzle- Am talking to some friends whose parents are lawyers, will get their input and keep my fingers crossed.
mazda- Unfortunately, I think you are probably right, or at least they did nothing that would make a judge toss it.
Colonel- It was Bud Lite, so... Happened in Grantham, NH.
Lazerous- I will be there plenty early. Unfortunately, this is a criminal offense, not a misdemeanor.
Well, at least you weren't driving, man. First you get a speeding ticket, and now this. You obviously have a problem with rules, young man. :P
I have to say, I'm pretty much a law and order guy, but I think this is ridiculous. Honestly, a few guys over 18 heading on a ski trip, driving moderately above the speed limit, with some beer in the back that they weren't drinking. I don't see much of a problem with that at all, as long as the containers weren't opened and the driver had no BAC. If I were the cop, I'd have given your buddy the speeding ticket, which is nothing, and maybe, if I really wanted to bust balls, a mail-in citation for the beer. Since you guys were apparently polite and forthcoming, I probably would have let you off lighter than that, maybe cutting him a break on the speeding ticket and overlooking the beer.
Dude, I wouldn't worry too much about this. In a year, it will be something that you laugh about with your buddies. For now, you need a local lawyer who can get it down to a small fine, and be done with the f&$king thing.
How about the New Hampshire staties for spreading a little Christmas cheer. Next time, follow my rule -- one illegal activity at a time. If I'm speeding, I make sure all else is in order. If I have something else going on that could get me into trouble, I don't speed.
Oh, I'm not unduly worried. Just something I would like to make disappear if at all possible. Yeah, tell me about being unnecessarily harsh (IMO...). We're already laughing about it now! Actually, we were having a hard time keeping a straight face in the cop car. It was straight out of Super Troopers, I was DIEING to make a snozberry comment but thought that wouldn't really help our case so much... We didn't give the guy any lip- that never got anyone anywhere. He was just very by the book.
Yeah, about making sure you're only doing one thing wrong at a time... When I spoke to my dad, his only reaction was "You didn't cover the beer! Idiot!" Old man has a point...
QuoteOh, I'm not unduly worried. Just something I would like to make disappear if at all possible. Yeah, tell me about being unnecessarily harsh (IMO...). We're already laughing about it now! Actually, we were having a hard time keeping a straight face in the cop car. It was straight out of Super Troopers, I was DIEING to make a snozberry comment but thought that wouldn't really help our case so much... We didn't give the guy any lip- that never got anyone anywhere. He was just very by the book.
Yeah, about making sure you're only doing one thing wrong at a time... When I spoke to my dad, his only reaction was "You didn't cover the beer! Idiot!" Old man has a point...
Yeah, much as we hate to admit it, the old man is usually right. :lol: It sounds as if your dad is pretty cool about it, and that's good. A guy I know had a similar thing happen in a bar. He got busted for underage drinking and even though he was over 18, they called his dad. His dad was pissed, and called him a 'f&$king axxhole' over the phone. I thought that was a little harsh on the dad's part. I don't think I'd be too upset if my 18-year-old son had something like this happen -- in fact, I'd pretty much expect something like this, and I'd be delighted that it wasn't something a lot worse.
I'm glad you're laughing about it already. It is pretty funny, actually. I wouldn't have minded it happening to me at your age. Back then, they were much more lenient about this stuff, and the drinking age was 18. I was buying beer when I was in high school and transporting it, and never got in trouble for it.
It's good to hear you kept a straight face while you were with the cops. The time to laugh is after you get away from them.
The Old Man got picked up when he was in school (at Colby up in Maine) for various nefarious activities so he understands... This is the TIME for this stuff to happen! Wouldn't want to feel as if I'd missed out on an integral part of my youth... :D
QuoteThe Old Man got picked up when he was in school (at Colby up in Maine) for various nefarious activities so he understands... This is the TIME for this stuff to happen! Wouldn't want to feel as if I'd missed out on an integral part of my youth... :D
That's right man. :P A few minor scrapes with the law don't do you any harm, as long as you don't end up with a record. This type of stuff -- speeding tickets, underage drinking violations, etc. -- doesn't amount to anything. Just avoid anything that creates a permanent criminal record.
It's always good to have a dad who pulled these types of stunts himself. Funny though, one of my best friends pulled all sorts of stunts when he was younger. He got countless speeding tickets, stopped his car on a highway and pissed in the middle lane (he was drunk), and even blew the back door off a local Howard Johnson's restaurant in his neighborhood using 4 M-80s because he and his friends had some ongoing dispute with the manager. Yet now, he's so harsh in his attitude toward kids doing even the slightest thing wrong. It's like he doesn't remember his own youth. I didn't do half the stuff he did, and I'm much more laid back about it.
Sorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything. Maybe a small fine or a little community service. Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????(http://forums.carspin.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
QuoteSorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything. Maybe a small fine or a little community service. Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????(http://forums.carspin.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
I know, man. If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer. :lol: Maybe Stella or something like that.
QuoteQuoteSorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything. Maybe a small fine or a little community service. Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????(http://forums.carspin.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
I know, man. If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer. :lol: Maybe Stella or something like that.
Word. The cop might have even let them go for a small commission if he found something good :D
QuoteQuoteQuoteSorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything.? Maybe a small fine or a little community service.? Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????(http://forums.carspin.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
I know, man. If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer. :lol: Maybe Stella or something like that.
Word. The cop might have even let them go for a small commission if he found something good :D
:lol: :P
This is the sort of crap that:
A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.
Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.
QuoteThis is the sort of crap that:
A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.
Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.
I would not be surprised if he was new on the highway patrol unit, since to tell you the truth, if I just became a cop and got my own car and powers and all that fancy shmancy stuff, hell yeah I would love to get somebody nailed from the first second. And that my friends, is why I would never make a good cop ;)
What have I been telling you? When transporting, wrap it like a present!
Quote1. At no point were we read out rights. Is this legal?
You should have been read your rights during the booking procedure. Regardless, if the Trooper asked you incriminating questions after he developed probable cause then those statements will most likely be tossed. The bottom line is that he had probable cause to arrest right after discovering the beer so, no, he doesn't have to read you your rights.
Quote2. We were not allowed to pay our bail and leave, even though we are all legal adults. Is this legal?
In MA you would have been released. NH may do things differently.
Quote3. He called our parents even though we are all legal adults. Is this legal?
See the last answer.
I can tell you with 99% certainty that your case (since you weren't the driver) is going to be tossed. The driver is in charge of the vehicle and in MA, anyone under 21 cannot transport alcohol. However, in your situation, you are a passenger and had no access to the trunk area where you were sitting. Had it been under your seat it might be a little harder to distance yourself but this is an easy one. Now, there could be a more stringent definition of possession in NH but I doubt it. It's a weak case on your end. Your friend might get spanked however. Don't drive with beer in the car!! :angry:
Soory, I didn't read all the responses since I'm at work.
QuoteThis is the sort of crap that:
A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.
Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.
Check your PM's :D
QuoteThis is the sort of crap that:
A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.
Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.
CityPig, it's good to see you over here man. Welcome.
QuoteQuoteSorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything. Maybe a small fine or a little community service. Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????(http://forums.carspin.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
I know, man. If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer. :lol: Maybe Stella or something like that.
We're cheap, and for 'ruit I'm not gonna use nice beer!
QuoteThis is the sort of crap that:
A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.
Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please. :rolleyes:
Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.
Thank you, your version does make a little more sense to me.
Lazerous- he was very young, and didn't know how to get to the town police station. (He was state). Had to ask another cop.
Thanks, Catman. I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it. I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go. Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc." 'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.
QuoteThanks, Catman. I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it. I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go. Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc." 'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.
J86,
I just wanted to follow up on a few things that Catman said. First as for reading you your rights. Three questions have to be answered when considering Miranda.
1) Was he a law enforcement officer or agent?
2) Was he interviewing or conducting an interrogation?
3) Were you in custody?
If one of these three are missing, it is not a Miranda issue. The questioning about the beer in the car was prior to custody. The trooper had no reason to arrest any of you prior to questioning (although he probably had reasonable suspicion, which in itself does not meet the Miranda threshhold). He developed probable cause during the questioning when you answered in the affirmative that you guys had been drinking beer. Once he had sufficient PC to conduct an arrest, it is at that point if he is going to continue questioning you that Miranda becomes an issue. So if I read your post right, the statements you made to the trooper will most likely stand.
As for you having to be released to your parents, unless NH has some funky law that I am not aware of, you should have been able to bond out on your own since you are over 18 years of age.
Finally, don't sweat this. Catman is correct in that the charges against you will probably be tossed. At worst you will receive a fine and have a misdemeanor on your record and it is a misdemeanor that is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
I just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way. Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed. So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away. He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off. As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.
QuoteQuoteThanks, Catman. I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it. I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go. Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc." 'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.
J86,
I just wanted to follow up on a few things that Catman said. First as for reading you your rights. Three questions have to be answered when considering Miranda.
1) Was he a law enforcement officer or agent?
2) Was he interviewing or conducting an interrogation?
3) Were you in custody?
If one of these three are missing, it is not a Miranda issue. The questioning about the beer in the car was prior to custody. The trooper had no reason to arrest any of you prior to questioning (although he probably had reasonable suspicion, which in itself does not meet the Miranda threshhold). He developed probable cause during the questioning when you answered in the affirmative that you guys had been drinking beer. Once he had sufficient PC to conduct an arrest, it is at that point if he is going to continue questioning you that Miranda becomes an issue. So if I read your post right, the statements you made to the trooper will most likely stand.
As for you having to be released to your parents, unless NH has some funky law that I am not aware of, you should have been able to bond out on your own since you are over 18 years of age.
Finally, don't sweat this. Catman is correct in that the charges against you will probably be tossed. At worst you will receive a fine and have a misdemeanor on your record and it is a misdemeanor that is not that big of a deal and the grand scheme of things.
BTW, things have gotten really ugly on that Autoweek thread. :angry:
QuoteI just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way. Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed. So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away. He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off. As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.
Sounds more like a case of natural selection at work to me =P
I was on the the NH Division of Motor Vehicles website. One page 85 of their operators manual it says the driver must be 21 to transport alcoholic beverages and you may not be able to drive for 60 days.
It's page 85 on the manual but page 89 in Adobe Reader.
Here is the link:
NH operators manual (http://nh.gov/safety/dmv/publications/nhdm.pdf)
Took me forever to download but hey, I was curious. Hope you have broadband.
Look like hopefully you won't become somebody's manwife.
:D :rockon: :rockon:
QuoteQuoteQuoteThanks, Catman.? I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it.? I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go.? Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc."? 'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.
J86,
I just wanted to follow up on a few things that Catman said. First as for reading you your rights. Three questions have to be answered when considering Miranda.
1) Was he a law enforcement officer or agent?
2) Was he interviewing or conducting an interrogation?
3) Were you in custody?
If one of these three are missing, it is not a Miranda issue. The questioning about the beer in the car was prior to custody. The trooper had no reason to arrest any of you prior to questioning (although he probably had reasonable suspicion, which in itself does not meet the Miranda threshhold). He developed probable cause during the questioning when you answered in the affirmative that you guys had been drinking beer. Once he had sufficient PC to conduct an arrest, it is at that point if he is going to continue questioning you that Miranda becomes an issue. So if I read your post right, the statements you made to the trooper will most likely stand.
As for you having to be released to your parents, unless NH has some funky law that I am not aware of, you should have been able to bond out on your own since you are over 18 years of age.
Finally, don't sweat this. Catman is correct in that the charges against you will probably be tossed. At worst you will receive a fine and have a misdemeanor on your record and it is a misdemeanor that is not that big of a deal and the grand scheme of things.
BTW, things have gotten really ugly on that Autoweek thread. :angry:
Catman,
I went over there the other day and saw that it had. Atomic and Catman vs Bigsalmon and ssalarn (sp?). Sounds like it could pass for a wrestling match :lol: I'll be honest, I don't know where salmon comes up with some of those posts. :blink: By the way Merry Christmas. ;) Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
QuoteI just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way. Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed. So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away. He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off. As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.
That was the first thing I thought of- something had happened that gave the police bad press, and the laws were changed in an over reactive way to please the populous.
It is still bs though.
QuoteQuoteI just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way. Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed. So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away. He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off. As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.
That was the first thing I thought of- something had happened that gave the police bad press, and the laws were changed in an over reactive way to please the populous.
It is still bs though.
I call them "feel good" laws. One of our detectives here used to work in Keene NH and another was a NH Trooper (much better pay here is you were wondering). The guy who worked in Keene summed it up that they arrest for everything in NH! You can even arrest someone for speeding there. :o
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThanks, Catman. I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it. I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go. Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc." 'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.
J86,
I just wanted to follow up on a few things that Catman said. First as for reading you your rights. Three questions have to be answered when considering Miranda.
1) Was he a law enforcement officer or agent?
2) Was he interviewing or conducting an interrogation?
3) Were you in custody?
If one of these three are missing, it is not a Miranda issue. The questioning about the beer in the car was prior to custody. The trooper had no reason to arrest any of you prior to questioning (although he probably had reasonable suspicion, which in itself does not meet the Miranda threshhold). He developed probable cause during the questioning when you answered in the affirmative that you guys had been drinking beer. Once he had sufficient PC to conduct an arrest, it is at that point if he is going to continue questioning you that Miranda becomes an issue. So if I read your post right, the statements you made to the trooper will most likely stand.
As for you having to be released to your parents, unless NH has some funky law that I am not aware of, you should have been able to bond out on your own since you are over 18 years of age.
Finally, don't sweat this. Catman is correct in that the charges against you will probably be tossed. At worst you will receive a fine and have a misdemeanor on your record and it is a misdemeanor that is not that big of a deal and the grand scheme of things.
BTW, things have gotten really ugly on that Autoweek thread. :angry:
Catman,
I went over there the other day and saw that it had. Atomic and Catman vs Bigsalmon and ssalarn (sp?). Sounds like it could pass for a wrestling match :lol: I'll be honest, I don't know where salmon comes up with some of those posts. :blink: By the way Merry Christmas. ;) Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
I think they're the same guy.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way. Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed. So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away. He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off. As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.
That was the first thing I thought of- something had happened that gave the police bad press, and the laws were changed in an over reactive way to please the populous.
It is still bs though.
I call them "feel good" laws. One of our detectives here used to work in Keene NH and another was a NH Trooper (much better pay here is you were wondering). The guy who worked in Keene summed it up that they arrest for everything in NH! You can even arrest someone for speeding there. :o
They arrest for everything, or they can arrest for everything?
Laws are only as good as they are enforced. If the police officer still has the choice of who to arrest and who not to, then there is a double standard depending on who you are and who you know. These laws are supposed to removes those double standards, but it seems like it just makes them more exaggerated.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way. Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed. So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away. He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off. As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.
That was the first thing I thought of- something had happened that gave the police bad press, and the laws were changed in an over reactive way to please the populous.
It is still bs though.
I call them "feel good" laws. One of our detectives here used to work in Keene NH and another was a NH Trooper (much better pay here is you were wondering). The guy who worked in Keene summed it up that they arrest for everything in NH! You can even arrest someone for speeding there. :o
They arrest for everything, or they can arrest for everything?
Laws are only as good as they are enforced. If the police officer still has the choice of who to arrest and who not to, then there is a double standard depending on who you are and who you know. These laws are supposed to removes those double standards, but it seems like it just makes them more exaggerated.
Pretty much both in a slightly exaggerated way. ;)
The arrest powers in NH are a little broader than their neighboring states. I will admit to arresting teens for transporting alcohol. I had no issue at all doing it because they were repeat offenders that I'd already given a freeby to. Second time it's all on them. :praise:
This case is probably an outgrowth of our society's refusal to accept personal responsibility for anything.
In the previous case mentioned, the underaged people who were in possession of the beer were released and later crashed their car. The police were probably blamed for that -- "they really should have held them" or "it was their responsibility to detain them until they were sure they weren't going to drink" blah blah blah.
So in order to avoid that, they made the arrest policy tighter, and now it's ridiculous. Heaven forbid people who drink and drive be held responsible for their own decisions. No, it's the fault of the bartender, the person who hosted the party they were at, or the police who didn't hold their hand for the rest of the evening or longer.
There was recently a case in Connecticut in which a town was sued because one of their off-duty police officers was in the same bar with four young men who were very drunk. The officer gave them his PBA card with a note asking whoever may pull them over to go easy on them. Later, they drove off drunk and killed themselves. I admit this officer showed horrendous judgment, but the town has been found responsible for their deaths. I think it's absurd, because whatever that off-duty officer did or didn't do, they made the decision to get into the car completely plastered and drive.
So J86, I think you can probably thank the "blame everybody but myself for the consequences of my actions" crowd for the fact that you got arrested for this trifling offense rather than just given some type of mail-in fine.
The important thing is you learned that in order not be illegal you must be 21 to obtain beer, transport, and consume beer in NH. Otherwise you may become someone's manwife. And then you got problems. Preparation H. Petroleum Jelly. Bean burrito. :blink:
By the way what's that about the autoweek thread?
QuoteThe important thing is you learned that in order not be illegal you must be 21 to obtain beer, transport, and consume beer in NH. Otherwise you may become someone's manwife. And then you got problems. Preparation H. Petroleum Jelly. Bean burrito. :blink:
By the way what's that about the autoweek thread?
Jesus man, lay off the chronic.
Quotemazda6er Posted on Dec 23 2005, 12:00 AM
QUOTE (sparkplug @ Dec 22 2005, 11:58 PM)
The important thing is you learned that in order not be illegal you must be 21 to obtain beer, transport, and consume beer in NH. Otherwise you may become someone's manwife. And then you got problems. Preparation H. Petroleum Jelly. Bean burrito. blink.gif
By the way what's that about the autoweek thread?
Jesus man, lay off the chronic.
??? What you mean? Clarification requested.
I'm just kidding with you. Your post was a little wacky is all. btw, the "quote" button is in the top right corner of each post. Not sure if you saw that yet or not. :)
I've got to say though, j86, you should've flashed the cat signal. Catman would've been here way quicker if he knew a citizen was in need. ;)
(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1871/newpicture5zq.png)
QuoteI've got to say though, j86, you should've flashed the cat signal. Catman would've been here way quicker if he knew a citizen was in need. ;)
(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1871/newpicture5zq.png)
lol, thats hilarious, Catman you should put that in your sig, it would be so funny :P
I had a coworker get arrested and his license suspended for something like this.
He had a little to drink (something on an airplane) and was driving home slower than the rest of traffic. A cop pulled him over (like a lion on a wounded gazelle), asked him if he had been drinking, which he honeslty replied "Yes." Then, the cop asked to search the car, found an empty, tiny bottle of wine from the last time he took his glass to the recycling center. And they booked him on that. Kinda sad, because he was a good guy caught in a bad situation.
That was over a month ago, and I still think he can't drive anywhere.
QuoteQuoteI've got to say though, j86, you should've flashed the cat signal. Catman would've been here way quicker if he knew a citizen was in need. ;)
(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1871/newpicture5zq.png)
lol, thats hilarious, Catman you should put that in your sig, it would be so funny :P
That's pretty good. :lol:
J86,
In my younger and dumber days, about 15 years ago, I got pulled over (in NH) for a headlight burned out. Had an open container in the car. Didn't get arrested or anything, but got a summons to appear in court for a violation of the open container law.
I hired a lawyer. Go to court, my lawyer talks to the prosecutor, and basically cut some kind of deal - if no other violations within so many days (180??, can't remember), the violation would be tossed.
Get a lawyer. Chances are it will get tossed, but having a good lawyer will vastly increase those chances.
QuoteI had a coworker get arrested and his license suspended for something like this.
He had a little to drink (something on an airplane) and was driving home slower than the rest of traffic. A cop pulled him over (like a lion on a wounded gazelle), asked him if he had been drinking, which he honeslty replied "Yes." Then, the cop asked to search the car, found an empty, tiny bottle of wine from the last time he took his glass to the recycling center. And they booked him on that. Kinda sad, because he was a good guy caught in a bad situation.
That was over a month ago, and I still think he can't drive anywhere.
Why is it wrong for anybody to transport an empty alcoholic container? Does that mean nobody under 21 can recycle? That charge sounds like bs to me, or your coworker isn't telling the whole story.
Thanks for the help guys. I'm still going to peruse state law until I find something about that parental notification/bail situation. That pisses me off.
QuoteQuoteI had a coworker get arrested and his license suspended for something like this.
He had a little to drink (something on an airplane) and was driving home slower than the rest of traffic. A cop pulled him over (like a lion on a wounded gazelle), asked him if he had been drinking, which he honeslty replied "Yes." Then, the cop asked to search the car, found an empty, tiny bottle of wine from the last time he took his glass to the recycling center. And they booked him on that. Kinda sad, because he was a good guy caught in a bad situation.
That was over a month ago, and I still think he can't drive anywhere.
Why is it wrong for anybody to transport an empty alcoholic container? Does that mean nobody under 21 can recycle? That charge sounds like bs to me, or your coworker isn't telling the whole story.
Either that or he didn't know enough to challenge the charges, either on his own or a lawyer. There are some people who, when they get singled out for penalties inappropriately, just bend over and take it. Maybe that's what happened, or maybe as you said there's more to the story.
If you're not obviously drunk, just say no, right? Then they don't have probable cause. A buddy of mine (legal) had an open container in the car, he was drunk, his wife was drunk, and they were at a sobriety checkpoint. He threw the open container out the window, put his game face on, said no, and went on home without incident.
But for you, Josh, you were just being dumb. Wrap it like a present. Why don't people listen to these bits of wisdom!? It's a birthday present, and you were going to a birthday party. Someone from school, or sleepaway camp--or it's a wedding.
QuoteIf you're not obviously drunk, just say no, right? Then they don't have probable cause. A buddy of mine (legal) had an open container in the car, he was drunk, his wife was drunk, and they were at a sobriety checkpoint. He threw the open container out the window, put his game face on, said no, and went on home without incident.
Drinking from an open container in MA is a civil offense and carries a $500 fine.
QuoteBut for you, Josh, you were just being dumb. Wrap it like a present. Why don't people listen to these bits of wisdom!? It's a birthday present, and you were going to a birthday party. Someone from school, or sleepaway camp--or it's a wedding.
I drive with booze in the car every fucking day. If you think I am going to wrap it like a present every time... It ain't a problem where I'm from, I just learned it is in the lovely state of New Hampshire. We got a little lazy by not having a jacket over it, oh well, wake up call I guess. Next time it will be in a duffel.
QuoteQuoteBut for you, Josh, you were just being dumb. Wrap it like a present. Why don't people listen to these bits of wisdom!? It's a birthday present, and you were going to a birthday party. Someone from school, or sleepaway camp--or it's a wedding.
I drive with booze in the car every fucking day. If you think I am going to wrap it like a present every time... It ain't a problem where I'm from, I just learned it is in the lovely state of New Hampshire. We got a little lazy by not having a jacket over it, oh well, wake up call I guess. Next time it will be in a duffel.
Do something long enough and you'll be caught. Complacency will set in eventually and you'll leave the duffle unzipped. Then I'll see another thread like this. Just learn your freakin lesson and wait till your 21 before you drive around with alcohol.
I always cover the booze, and I'm 21. No need for unnessecary drama.
QuoteQuoteIf you're not obviously drunk, just say no, right? Then they don't have probable cause. A buddy of mine (legal) had an open container in the car, he was drunk, his wife was drunk, and they were at a sobriety checkpoint. He threw the open container out the window, put his game face on, said no, and went on home without incident.
Drinking from an open container in MA is a civil offense and carries a $500 fine.
How do you drink from a closed container?
QuoteI always cover the booze, and I'm 21. No need for unnessecary drama.
Exactly. Who wants to attract that kind of attention from a cop. It can never be positive.
Like you said, one illegal thing at a time.
QuoteLike you said, one illegal thing at a time.
That's right, man. Even if carrying alcohol visibly in closed containers is not illegal, it can only raise questions and potentially lead to complications if you're ever stopped. When you get stopped, you want the cop to just take the license and registration and do what he has to do, not spend a lot of time asking you questions and poking around in your car.
Eek. How the hell did I miss this thread?
My comments:
1) Miranda is not necesarilyl a legal requirement, as referenced in a recent Supreme Court decision.
2) "Super Troopers" came to mind immediately when I saw the quote "we take this sort of thing very seriously around here."
3) The 21-age drinking law never stopped anyone from obtaining or drinking alcohol. All it's done is make alcohol this taboo that only makes "underage" drinking more prevalent. Most of the people I knew in college drank more often before they were 21 than after their 21st birthday.
4) I was never one for the drunken driving, but I definitely transported alcohol in my car before I was 21. I doubt NYPD would've cared too much about that kind of thing though. Staties tend to have a higher ratio of "hard asses" in the ranks, it seems.
5) Who knew Live Free or Die is, itself, quite dead. :hammerhead:
6) Dazzleman, as usual, is right on the money. Stella would definitely have been a better choice.
7) My cousin went to Keene State Univ. Lots of fun times up there, especially around Halloween.
So, that was my attempt to comment on almost every point so far in the thread. Now, I shall join in as if I've been here from the beginning. :rockon:
Quote
6) Dazzleman, as usual, is right on the money. Stella would definitely have been a better choice.
Thanks, man. Seriously, getting arrested for Bud Lite is kind of like getting taken to the cleaners by an ugly chick who's bad in bed. Only a beautiful woman who's amazing in bed ought to be able to do that to you. :lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you're not obviously drunk, just say no, right? Then they don't have probable cause. A buddy of mine (legal) had an open container in the car, he was drunk, his wife was drunk, and they were at a sobriety checkpoint. He threw the open container out the window, put his game face on, said no, and went on home without incident.
Drinking from an open container in MA is a civil offense and carries a $500 fine.
How do you drink from a closed container?
I was confused about that, too. :blink:
QuoteQuote
6) Dazzleman, as usual, is right on the money. Stella would definitely have been a better choice.
Thanks, man. Seriously, getting arrested for Bud Lite is kind of like getting taken to the cleaners by an ugly chick who's bad in bed. Only a beautiful woman who's amazing in bed ought to be able to do that to you. :lol:
Hmm...
Bass Ale, baby.
Stella's great, though.
Quote2) "Super Troopers" came to mind immediately when I saw the quote "we take this sort of thing very seriously around here."
Lol, I pictured this guy :D :
(http://www.comedycentral.com/images/shows/reno911/characters/garcia_m4.jpg)
(http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/images/buford_t_justice.jpg)
Beer in the trunk? Oh, you're in a heap o' trouble boy.
Quote7) My cousin went to Keene State Univ. Lots of fun times up there, especially around Halloween.
Halloween is definitely fun in Keene. My girlfriend went there, and I have a bunch of friends from HS going there. It's definitely quite the party school judging from what I've seen/heard.
Update?
Don't have much of anything new at this point...I'm basically waiting until Feb. 7 rolls around. I've been mulling over some possibilites as to lawyers, but they seem to want about a grand, and that is alot of dough! My sole interest is having this not be a criminal conviction, I would hate to have to check the "yes" box on job applications in future years. Particularly because I want to go to law school... :D With this in mind, I do have a couple more questions.
Alot of responses in this thread have leaned towards a dismissal of chargers. I think this might be unlikely, as I've found some anecdotal evidence to the contrary. The other night I was watching football at a buddies and some other kids who I had not met showed up. Two of them had been busted in NH in roughly similar situations (kids under 21 near alcohol). One has his case pending, the other had charges filed, but they would be dropped from his record after a year provided he did not screw up within that time frame. I cannot remember what he was charged with, but it was not a criminal offense like what I have, it was solely a misdemeanor. This makes me think that the judge will not be inclined to drop charges. Assuming he does not, what do I do? How do I stand there and try to weasel my way into something less severe? I can't imagine it'd be like my ticket, where I talked to the guy who issued it to me, struck a deal, and walked out before the judge even showed up. Do I meet with a prosecuter beforehand? I would most like to figure out how to get this not on my permanent record. Thanks...
BTW- any snow up there? I skiied Tuesday but it rained and cover got real thin and icy, and fresh flakes make it soft again?
For all y'all bitchin' 'bout the brew... Ya think a bunch of college kids are gonna buy nice beers for a little 'ruit, flipcup, and asshole?!
Just yanking your chain. As guys, we would be remiss in our duties not making fun of you drinking lite beer :D
Just kidding of course, it's not like I can afford anything good.
QuoteFor all y'all bitchin' 'bout the brew... Ya think a bunch of college kids are gonna buy nice beers for a little 'ruit, flipcup, and asshole?!
QuoteFor all y'all bitchin' 'bout the brew... Ya think a bunch of college kids are gonna buy nice beers for a little 'ruit, flipcup, and asshole?!
Ah, Beirut. Also known as Beer Pong.
I usually play Asshole with bourbon though.
I've got a high tolerance. I'm Irish.
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_9_16.gif)
;) :P
To be honest, I'd be surprised if you got any more than a slap on the wrist. At the most you'll get a "continued without a finding", meaning you'll need to stay out of trouble for a couple months or something. You weren't even in control of the car so I can't see this being a big issue. The arrest was a weak one. A public defender is all you need.
*Disclaimer* I'm always wrong :P
Hey now, I'm a college guy, and I bring good beer.
Congrats, beer snobs. :D Cat: OK, but I must admit I'm not 100% sold! How do I go about getting a public defender? Just google it I suppose...
Raza: It's Beirut. TRUE Beer Pong is a game involving paddles. I have this argument with sooooo many people at school! I think every region has their own little terminology...
Psilos: Ya play 10+ games with a dark heavy beer? That's more than my frame would be able to handle... :D
No, just good beer. There are plenty of beers that taste very good that I can drink a lot of. Besides, with better beer, you'll need to play fewer games. ;)
For any kind of alcohol tomfoolery I think the brew of choice is Miller Light. For just drinking its Sam Adams and for a quality meal beer it has to be something like Hacker Pschorr(sp?).
Eh? Sounds like mediocre German beer to me... (As opposed to good German beer ;) ).
QuoteCongrats, beer snobs. :D Cat: OK, but I must admit I'm not 100% sold! How do I go about getting a public defender? Just google it I suppose...
Raza: It's Beirut. TRUE Beer Pong is a game involving paddles. I have this argument with sooooo many people at school! I think every region has their own little terminology...
Psilos: Ya play 10+ games with a dark heavy beer? That's more than my frame would be able to handle... :D
J86, I think you'd need to speak with an officer of the court about getting a public defender, and you'd need to have it arranged before your court date.
I don't know the laws in New Hampshire, but in Connecticut, public defenders are not provided for charges that don't carry the possibility of a jail sentence, so I would not be surprised if there were not a public defender available for your case.
Even if you don't get a lawyer, you should bring some responsible adult with you, like your dad. That always makes a better impression on the judge.
Well, court in less than a week! I'm not getting any professional help (hehe), one of my buddies is but I'm not throwing down that kind of dough. The lawyer he retained spoke to the cop, the cop said we were "basically good kids" (I gotta hold THAT one over the 'rents!) and would recommend that the charges be filed. So if we stay out fo trouble for a year it allllll goes away... I don't see why this wouldn't shake out for all of us (well, at least us two passengers), so I'll just show up Tuesday clean-shaven w/ a collar!
Oh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D Hope they get some snow...
QuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
QuoteQuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
I miss playing H.S. Golf a lot, those were some of the best times of my life :(
QuoteWell, court in less than a week! I'm not getting any professional help (hehe), one of my buddies is but I'm not throwing down that kind of dough. The lawyer he retained spoke to the cop, the cop said we were "basically good kids" (I gotta hold THAT one over the 'rents!) and would recommend that the charges be filed. So if we stay out fo trouble for a year it allllll goes away... I don't see why this wouldn't shake out for all of us (well, at least us two passengers), so I'll just show up Tuesday clean-shaven w/ a collar!
Good idea, man. Dress well, but don't overdress. You're not on trial for murder, so you don't need a suit. But wear a nice pair of dress pants, a shirt with a collar, and as you said, make sure you're clean-shaven or, if you have facial hair, that it's trimmed neatly. Dressing and grooming well send a message that you respect the court and take your appearance there seriously. That makes a difference in how you are treated.
Good luck, man. Don't do what those kids in Illinois did. [In case you didn't hear, there was a group of guys who got busted for drinking at their prom. The judge went easy on them, and in return, they put up a website where they said "F&$K [judge's name] and had pictures of themselves really drunk mooning the judge and making obscene gestures to him. A caption over one said "Night after prom." The judge saw the website and called them back in and gave them some jail time. :lol: ]
Let us know how it turns out. Hopefully, court will be just a bump in the road that day, and you'll get out early and get in some good skiing and, of course, drinking, that day. :rockon:
Where one of these.
(http://mixent.com/images/stopsnitch_tshirt.gif)
The courts love them.
QuoteWhere one of these.
(http://mixent.com/images/stopsnitch_tshirt.gif)
The courts love them.
:lol:
QuoteQuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
ever ski either west or east? Can't imagine there's much in the middle of the country...
QuoteQuoteQuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D? Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
ever ski either west or east? Can't imagine there's much in the middle of the country...
Sure there is, you just don't go very fast or very far.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
ever ski either west or east? Can't imagine there's much in the middle of the country...
Sure there is, you just don't go very fast or very far.
I believe they also call it sitting.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D? Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
ever ski either west or east? Can't imagine there's much in the middle of the country...
Sure there is, you just don't go very fast or very far.
I believe they also call it sitting.
Nice! :lol:
QuoteQuoteBut for you, Josh, you were just being dumb. Wrap it like a present. Why don't people listen to these bits of wisdom!? It's a birthday present, and you were going to a birthday party. Someone from school, or sleepaway camp--or it's a wedding.
I drive with booze in the car every fucking day. If you think I am going to wrap it like a present every time... It ain't a problem where I'm from, I just learned it is in the lovely state of New Hampshire. We got a little lazy by not having a jacket over it, oh well, wake up call I guess. Next time it will be in a duffel.
Depending on what happens in court - I wouldn't even take the slightest chance of getting caught anywhere with beer in your car. That's just my opinion however.
QuoteQuoteQuoteOh, I'm bringin' my skis and if court doesn't take too long I'm headed to Sunnapee afterwards! :D Hope they get some snow...
The thing I am missing most besides playing football is Skiing.
ever ski either west or east? Can't imagine there's much in the middle of the country...
There are some decent slopes up in Wisconsin.
Well, court was a success!
Got the charge filed, meaning I got out of there with no fine (KEY!) and so long as I don't get arrested within a year it will all go away like it never happened.
Interesting experience, to say the least. First of all, the 6 hour drive out SUCKED, soon as I corssed into Vermont from NY it started snowing like crazy, real high wind, and horrendous roads. Good thing I was borrowing my buddy's 200x Toyota Tacoma. After I put it into 4WD it was unstoppable, but when I had it in 2WD it was nothing short of terrifying, even the slightest motion on the gas left the tail waaaay out to the side. That was fun and entertaining when I was on the highway and had plenty of space, but on narrow, steep, winding mountain roads it kinda sucked. Also borrowed a Passport Escort 8500, THAT is a fine piece of equipment! Saved my ass multiple times coming back. I discovered it does Laser detection, as well as X, K, Ka band, and god knows what else. Was in court at 830, they called a bunch of people before me, but was out by 930. 'Cause Mt. Sunapee was only 10 minutes down the road, I drove down there and was on the slopes by 10!
An aside about sitting in court listening to why other people were there for arraignment. Our system sucks. The lesson that was imparted was if you have money and are a more upper-class member of society you can get away with pretty much anything, while less well off and educated people get screwed time and time again. For example, I was there for my minor in possession charge. My buddy's dad had hired him a lawyer, who had spoken to the cop and had struck the aforementioned deal. I have no idea what was paid to the lawyer (I didn't hire one, I just listened in on what he said and copied it) but I know they certainly don't work for free. There was a lady who was called ahead of me who was there for driving with a suspended lisence, she had been busted for it twice in four days. The only comment she could make was "Your Honor, I know it's illegal, but if I don't get to work I can't feed my kids." The judge, who was extremely no nonsense, also had compassion if it was clear that you weren't 1. an asshole or 2. a 'real' troublemaker, tried to lessen her fine, but due to mandatory minimum sentencing laws she was still stuck with over $700 to pay. There is absolutely no way she had that much money to pay her fine, and she STILL doesn't have the money to pay the lisencing fee which landed her in this jam to beign with. I hear lots of harping about how people need to take personal responsibility for their actions, but when our system is set up from the beginning where the majority of poor people are stuck in substandard schools, drop out because of worthless instructors and a lack of educated parents to push them, and are then forced to work long hours for shit pay just to put food on the table, I don't see HOW she can be blamed. God that makes me pissed. Meanwhile, I waltz in wearing a nice shirt and a Brooks Brothers tie, the judge asks where I go to college, then proceeds to give us the lightest sentence permissible. Now, I am sure as hell glad that I got out of that jam, but at the same time it sucks that I (well, technically my friend's father), bought our brand of justice while the woman who could not afford an attorney was stuck in an even deeper hole. This is not a politicized or partisan rant, so don't even bother. It's just my observation.
Yeah, remember to not get arrested again for a year.
QuoteYeah, remember to not get arrested again for a year.
that can be exceedingly difficult come summertime!
Just as I told you it would turn out. :praise: Hiring a lawyer really wasn't necessary in this case. It was a waste of money, as you found out.
Don't get caught up in one day of observations. Most of the people with sorry stories are frequent flyers.
QuoteJust as I told you it would turn out. :praise: Hiring a lawyer really wasn't necessary in this case. It was a waste of money, as you found out.
Thanks again for the advice!
QuoteWell, court was a success!
Got the charge filed, meaning I got out of there with no fine (KEY!) and so long as I don't get arrested within a year it will all go away like it never happened.
Interesting experience, to say the least. First of all, the 6 hour drive out SUCKED, soon as I corssed into Vermont from NY it started snowing like crazy, real high wind, and horrendous roads. Good thing I was borrowing my buddy's 200x Toyota Tacoma. After I put it into 4WD it was unstoppable, but when I had it in 2WD it was nothing short of terrifying, even the slightest motion on the gas left the tail waaaay out to the side. That was fun and entertaining when I was on the highway and had plenty of space, but on narrow, steep, winding mountain roads it kinda sucked. Also borrowed a Passport Escort 8500, THAT is a fine piece of equipment! Saved my ass multiple times coming back. I discovered it does Laser detection, as well as X, K, Ka band, and god knows what else. Was in court at 830, they called a bunch of people before me, but was out by 930. 'Cause Mt. Sunapee was only 10 minutes down the road, I drove down there and was on the slopes by 10!
An aside about sitting in court listening to why other people were there for arraignment. Our system sucks. The lesson that was imparted was if you have money and are a more upper-class member of society you can get away with pretty much anything, while less well off and educated people get screwed time and time again. For example, I was there for my minor in possession charge. My buddy's dad had hired him a lawyer, who had spoken to the cop and had struck the aforementioned deal. I have no idea what was paid to the lawyer (I didn't hire one, I just listened in on what he said and copied it) but I know they certainly don't work for free. There was a lady who was called ahead of me who was there for driving with a suspended lisence, she had been busted for it twice in four days. The only comment she could make was "Your Honor, I know it's illegal, but if I don't get to work I can't feed my kids." The judge, who was extremely no nonsense, also had compassion if it was clear that you weren't 1. an asshole or 2. a 'real' troublemaker, tried to lessen her fine, but due to mandatory minimum sentencing laws she was still stuck with over $700 to pay. There is absolutely no way she had that much money to pay her fine, and she STILL doesn't have the money to pay the lisencing fee which landed her in this jam to beign with. I hear lots of harping about how people need to take personal responsibility for their actions, but when our system is set up from the beginning where the majority of poor people are stuck in substandard schools, drop out because of worthless instructors and a lack of educated parents to push them, and are then forced to work long hours for shit pay just to put food on the table, I don't see HOW she can be blamed. God that makes me pissed. Meanwhile, I waltz in wearing a nice shirt and a Brooks Brothers tie, the judge asks where I go to college, then proceeds to give us the lightest sentence permissible. Now, I am sure as hell glad that I got out of that jam, but at the same time it sucks that I (well, technically my friend's father), bought our brand of justice while the woman who could not afford an attorney was stuck in an even deeper hole. This is not a politicized or partisan rant, so don't even bother. It's just my observation.
Dude, you should listen to Catman.
First off, you don't know why that woman's license was suspended. It could be for something serious. The whole "I need to drive to support my kids" argument avoids the whole issue of why she got into trouble in the first place. I find that people like that are often very slow to accept responsibility for their actions, and love to blame other people for the results of their actions. The bottom line -- unless there was an extraordinary miscarriage of justice, that woman has herself to blame for being in court, and for her livelihood being in jeopardy.
I've also noticed a very strong correlation between failure/refusal to accept responsibility for your own actions, and lack of economic success. That goes a long way toward explaining why the people in those types of situations often lack financial resources.
Your 'offense' was nothing, and obviously the judge knew it. For all you know, she could have been driving drunk or something. I've learned to be very, very sceptical of hard luck stories. There's usually a whole lot they're not telling you.
Having said that, you're right that it's much easier to manipulate the system if you have money. But that doesn't mean necessarily that people without money are getting screwed. It only means that it's easier to escape the rightful consequences of your actions if you have money. Still bad, but not as bad as you described.
It was suspended initially because she was driving with expired tags: money to register the vehicle or pay heat bills? I think that the less financially fortunate quite often get the shaft in our system. They are set up from the beginning, many times, for failure, with substandard schools that don't give the education necessary to make a run for the top in today's world. I have a difficult time focusing 100% blame on the individual when there are such obvious inequities in opportunity presented to the various classes.
Judging off the comments I've read at C/D and here, I know I'm a more liberal member of the boards. I honestly don't want to debate those ideologies here: I'm a public policy major, I get to do that all the time during class. It's more fun to talk aobut drugs, sex, rock an' roll (and cars!) than it is to debate the merits of our judicial system and personal responsibility vs. responsibility of the state issues!
I still say: New Hampshire- Live Free or Die my ass!!! :D
Oh, I'll discuss all the above over a beer! :P