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Auto Talk => The Big Guys => Topic started by: cawimmer430 on June 28, 2017, 08:10:04 AM

Title: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: cawimmer430 on June 28, 2017, 08:10:04 AM
Hmmmm, I wonder how the car will look like once that camouflage is taken off...  :ohyeah:


New Mercedes G-Class To Gain An Independent Front Suspension And Turbo Straight-Six Engines

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ikw3_72v0SQ/WVFaD5XaznI/AAAAAAAAE6o/1nOEODBr8tER4bmkCoBXOzlu9EpJWIMPACLcBGAs/s1600/Mercedes-G63-AMG-5.jpg)

Mercedes is preparing to introduce an all-new G-Class after 38 years in production and we're starting to learn how close the model came to extinction.

In an interview with Automotive News, Mercedes G-Class boss Gunnar Guethenke confirmed the M-Class was originally designed to replace the model when it was launched in 1997. However, "the customer base of the G-class was so loyal and continued to support the vehicle that it never came to this point."

Despite never being sold in the United States, the G-Class had a strong following and was attracting plenty of interest. This pushed the company to bring the model stateside in 2002.

The G-Class never sold in huge numbers but the company steadily moved around 1,000 units annually. More recently, there has been a spike in interest as the company sold 3,950 G-Class models in the United States last year.

The company is hoping to continue that trend with the redesigned model which is expected to have an independent front suspension and a turbocharged six-cylinder engine. Rumors also suggest the model will be about 4 inches (10.1 cm) wider than its predecessor to create a more comfortable cabin.

Despite the emphasis on comfort, Guethenke confirmed the new G-Class will remain as rugged and capable as its predecessor. As he explained, there's "three backbones for our off-road capabilities" and these include a body-on-frame chassis, locking differentials, and low-range gearing.


Link: http://www.carscoops.com/2017/06/new-mercedes-g-class-to-gain.html
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: shp4man on June 28, 2017, 08:21:55 AM
I like this one. It's a diesel, too.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/79/a0/8e/79a08e9cef774956ed5b457db5855daf.jpg)

Not sure about the one you posted.  :lol:
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: cawimmer430 on June 28, 2017, 08:35:48 AM
My ideal G-Class would have the body kit from the '63/'65 AMG models, but under the bonnet there's the '350d engine.  :wub:

(http://www.rtl2.de/o/vipo/img/15862_1-video-grip-196-1-der-neue-mercedes-benz-g-63-amg.jpg)



By the way, the original G-Class was also available with the 72-horsepower 2.4 inline-4 Diesel from the 240D. Sounds like fun, eh?  :lol:
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on June 28, 2017, 08:41:42 AM
If you go to LA or NYC you would think Merc sells 9,000,000 a day.

I hope they keep the styling very similar to the current model.  That they're widening it by so much leaves me doubtful though. 

Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on June 28, 2017, 08:51:04 AM
This is the rumored interior:

(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/2018-mercedes-benz-g-class-w464-interior-design-spied_1.jpg)

Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: giant_mtb on June 28, 2017, 08:55:52 AM
Bleh.  IFS and 4" wider?  Both things that real off roaders definitely want.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on June 28, 2017, 09:08:03 AM
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 28, 2017, 08:55:52 AM
Bleh.  IFS and 4" wider?  Both things that real off roaders definitely want.

:lol:

My first thought at as well.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: veeman on June 28, 2017, 09:20:36 AM
Current G class width is 72 inches with mirrors folded in.  Current F150 width is 80 inches with mirrors folded in.  Adding 4 inches to the width of the G-class will still allow it to be parked in NYC and LA luxury high rise buildings with indoor garage parking yet allow better rider comfort both in terms of interior volume and city street driving dynamics.  I'm sure those facts were higher on the minds of Mercedes engineers rather than trail riding.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on June 28, 2017, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: veeman on June 28, 2017, 09:20:36 AM
Current G class width is 72 inches with mirrors folded in.  Current F150 width is 80 inches with mirrors folded in.  Adding 4 inches to the width of the G-class will still allow it to be parked in NYC and LA luxury high rise buildings with indoor garage parking yet allow better rider comfort both in terms of interior volume and city street driving dynamics.  I'm sure those facts were higher on the minds of Mercedes engineers rather than trail riding.

Indeed.  I don't think people realize that the G-class is a very narrow vehicle.

For what it's worth, the current Jeep JK is 74 inches wide, up 8 inches from the YJ of the 80's.  The G will be 2 inches wider (maybe 4 if the AMG trims use wider wheel flares) than a Wrangler - hardly a major obstacle on a trail.

Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on June 28, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Yeah I get that. Especially in the states, it's not like very many people are actually off-roading their G wagons anyway.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Raza on June 28, 2017, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 28, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Yeah I get that. Especially in the states, it's not like very many people are actually off-roading their G wagons anyway.

If I ever do get another Mercedes, it'll likely be a G500.  And I would totally use it to offroad, should I ever be out driving somewhere and the road ends for some reason.   :lol:
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: giant_mtb on June 28, 2017, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Raza  on June 28, 2017, 12:30:58 PM
If I ever do get another Mercedes, it'll likely be a G500.  And I would totally use it to offroad, should I ever be out driving somewhere and the road ends for some reason.   :lol:

Gotta get rid of those bodies somewhere.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: SVT_Power on June 28, 2017, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 28, 2017, 12:33:10 PM
Gotta get rid of those bodies somewhere.

That's what the shovel is for
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Galaxy on June 28, 2017, 02:25:15 PM
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 28, 2017, 08:10:04 AM
More recently, there has been a spike in interest as the company sold 3,950 G-Class models in the United States last year.

Jesus, that must be like half a billion in turnover.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: cawimmer430 on June 28, 2017, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: Raza  on June 28, 2017, 12:30:58 PM
If I ever do get another Mercedes, it'll likely be a G500.  And I would totally use it to offroad, should I ever be out driving somewhere and the road ends for some reason.   :lol:

If you get an older G-Class from the '70s and '80s you can row your own gears. Good luck merging onto a freeway, though! :winkguy:

(http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/CA/20141021/OEM04/310219999/V3/0/V3-310219999.jpg)
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: 68_427 on June 28, 2017, 10:15:53 PM
The G63 is a fucking Corolla in the ME.  I did see a G65 with some big knobby tires parked on top of a huge curb in a mall parking lot there though.    :rockon:
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on June 29, 2017, 08:22:54 AM
Quote from: 68_427 on June 28, 2017, 10:15:53 PM
The G63 is a fucking Corolla in the ME.  I did see a G65 with some big knobby tires parked on top of a huge curb in a mall parking lot there though.    :rockon:

I just got back from LA...I get the distinct feeling that the G550 is a poor-person's car there. 
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Raza on June 29, 2017, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 28, 2017, 12:33:10 PM
Gotta get rid of those bodies somewhere.

#shovellife
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: 68_427 on June 29, 2017, 12:39:19 PM
Quote from: Submariner on June 29, 2017, 08:22:54 AM
I just got back from LA...I get the distinct feeling that the G550 is a poor-person's car there. 

The "G550" is what you drive when you really drive a G500, but are embarrassed to have the old one so you swap badges.  :lol:
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: MX793 on June 30, 2017, 10:21:10 AM
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 28, 2017, 08:55:52 AM
Bleh.  IFS and 4" wider?  Both things that real off roaders definitely want.

A lot of the most serious off-roaders use IFS.  More width generally isn't a good thing, though, unless you're a dune rat where you don't have to thread any narrow paths and can benefit from the stability.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on June 30, 2017, 10:29:03 AM
Quote from: MX793 on June 30, 2017, 10:21:10 AM
A lot of the most serious off-roaders use IFS.  More width generally isn't a good thing, though, unless you're a dune rat where you don't have to thread any narrow paths and can benefit from the stability.

Depends a lot on the type of off-roading right? I'm no expert, but it seems like solid-axle would be better for more technical off-roading and rock crawling.

(http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/general-chit-chat/103970d1074457498-florida-rock-crawling-bring-pics-inside-dsc03501.jpg)
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: MX793 on June 30, 2017, 11:12:52 AM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 30, 2017, 10:29:03 AM
Depends a lot on the type of off-roading right? I'm no expert, but it seems like solid-axle would be better for more technical off-roading and rock crawling.

(http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/general-chit-chat/103970d1074457498-florida-rock-crawling-bring-pics-inside-dsc03501.jpg)

Easier to hang up an axle on a stick axle than on a high-travel independent.  Unless you go with a portal axle, the clearance from the pumpkin/axle to the ground is limited by your wheel and tire diameter.  On an independent, you can get the diff up higher.  The bits that hang down at "axle" level are in close proximity to the wheel and move with the wheel, so you're unlikely to hang up the hard parts unless you drive into a sharp-edged feature like a rut (which will also hang up a stick axle). 

Also, with a stick axle, whatever one wheel does, the other does too.  Tires aren't designed to provide much traction when all that's making contact with the ground is the sidewall.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: giant_mtb on June 30, 2017, 11:29:18 AM
Fair enough. I mean, my truck has IFS and I like it. Took the sway bar off and she cruises beautifully.  If I ever get a play toy ORV, solid front axle likely won't be a deal breaker...some vehicles have 'em, some don't. Low range and locking diffs matter more at that point.

My original comment was mostly sarcasm.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: MX793 on June 30, 2017, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 30, 2017, 11:29:18 AM
Fair enough. I mean, my truck has IFS and I like it. Took the sway bar off and she cruises beautifully.  If I ever get a play toy ORV, solid front axle likely won't be a deal breaker...some vehicles have 'em, some don't. Low range and locking diffs matter more at that point.

My original comment was mostly sarcasm.

The reason so many hardcore offroaders and rock crawlers run stick axles is because they are based on production vehicles that came with stick axles.  This was done because they are cheap and durable, which is what people buying 4WD trucks and Jeeps want.  It's easier to retain the stick axles and tweak the various control arms and links to get more articulation than to basically engineer your own independent suspension setup and then figure out how to retrofit it to your stick axle vehicle.  And because said vehicles have been running these setups for a long, long time, there's a ton of aftermarket and parts and such for them.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on June 30, 2017, 02:29:02 PM
Yeah, price and durability definitely enters the equation. But even then, the vertical travel for IFS is dependent on how long the control arms are. I can't imagine there are very many IFS vehicles that could do what the Jeep I posted above is doing and still have all four wheels on the ground.

With a quick Google search, it looks like "rock crawlers" typically have solid axles, even when you get into the fully custom fabricated (i.e. price-no-object) vehicles. It's more the baja-style rally trucks that use IFS.

(http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/vehicles-trailers-sale/566172d1292992930-2009-h-h-built-rock-crawler-jan-2010-013.jpg)

But like Chris said, it doesn't matter to me. IFS is fine for anything I plan on doing. The Explorer has IFS and IRS, and so far has gotten me everywhere I needed to go.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: giant_mtb on June 30, 2017, 04:26:55 PM
Yeah, the strength and aftermarket of solid axles is nuts. I can't believe the stresses some of those guys put through 'em and they just take it.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: CaminoRacer on July 02, 2017, 09:44:13 AM
Solid axles seem beneficial for rock crawling because it's less likely that a wheel will lose contact with the ground. Even if it's just the sidewall, that's more than nothing.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Galaxy on July 02, 2017, 10:33:24 AM
Has there every been any type of independent suspension, even if only as a prototype, where the wheel actively gets pushed to the ground? Maybe that Bose system that was shown a few years ago?
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: MX793 on July 02, 2017, 10:47:47 AM
Quote from: Galaxy on July 02, 2017, 10:33:24 AM
Has there every been any type of independent suspension, even if only as a prototype, where the wheel actively gets pushed to the ground? Maybe that Bose system that was shown a few years ago?

All suspensions push the wheels into the ground.  There's only two reasons a wheel will lift off the ground:
1.  A sway or anti-roll bar, tying left and right side wheels together, has limited travel
2.  You've fully extended the spring or otherwise run out of extension travel.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: AltinD on July 02, 2017, 01:11:26 PM
Quote from: 68_427 on June 28, 2017, 10:15:53 PM
The G63 is a fucking Corolla in the ME.  I did see a G65 with some big knobby tires parked on top of a huge curb in a mall parking lot there though.    :rockon:

Yup, it's funny how many of them you see in Dubai
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on July 04, 2017, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 30, 2017, 10:29:03 AM
Depends a lot on the type of off-roading right? I'm no expert, but it seems like solid-axle would be better for more technical off-roading and rock crawling.

(http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/general-chit-chat/103970d1074457498-florida-rock-crawling-bring-pics-inside-dsc03501.jpg)

Do you want to bet that no purchaser of a $123,000 (base price) G-class is ever going to do that?
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: GoCougs on July 04, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
There are most definitely IFS rock crawler and hard core off road rigs in general. Thing is, as MX793 stated, IFS (and of course IRS) is much harder/costlier for the hobby guy to work with as the donor rigs and the various common components (like Rockwell 2.5 ton axles) are pretty much all live axle.

(http://image.4wdandsportutility.com/f/8499403+w750+st0/02084wd_12z+Rock_Crawler+Gray_Tube.jpg)
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 05, 2017, 08:40:53 AM
Quote from: Submariner on July 04, 2017, 05:16:19 PM
Do you want to bet that no purchaser of a $123,000 (base price) G-class is ever going to do that?

Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 28, 2017, 10:05:35 AM
Yeah I get that. Especially in the states, it's not like very many people are actually off-roading their G wagons anyway.

:huh:

The IFS/solid-axle conversation had moved out of the context of the G.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on July 05, 2017, 01:31:29 PM
^Yeah, I realized that right after I posted it.

Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Submariner on July 05, 2017, 01:31:49 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on July 04, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
There are most definitely IFS rock crawler and hard core off road rigs in general. Thing is, as MX793 stated, IFS (and of course IRS) is much harder/costlier for the hobby guy to work with as the donor rigs and the various common components (like Rockwell 2.5 ton axles) are pretty much all live axle.

(http://image.4wdandsportutility.com/f/8499403+w750+st0/02084wd_12z+Rock_Crawler+Gray_Tube.jpg)

The H1 was IRS/IFS, too, right?
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 01:37:27 PM
The problem with independent suspension generally is the sway bar severely limits travel.  Most street cars will run a sway bar, which means you then need to invest in disconnecting systems or something like Porsche's active swaybar... Most manufacturers will not see a reason to do so as it will no effect 99.97% of their buyers.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: MX793 on July 05, 2017, 03:12:04 PM
Quote from: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 01:37:27 PM
The problem with independent suspension generally is the sway bar severely limits travel.  Most street cars will run a sway bar, which means you then need to invest in disconnecting systems or something like Porsche's active swaybar... Most manufacturers will not see a reason to do so as it will no effect 99.97% of their buyers.

Many/most factory stick axle vehicles have sway bars as well.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 05, 2017, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: Submariner on July 05, 2017, 01:31:49 PM
The H1 was IRS/IFS, too, right?

It was.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 07:11:17 PM
Quote from: MX793 on July 05, 2017, 03:12:04 PM
Many/most factory stick axle vehicles have sway bars as well.

Does a Wrangler have sway bars... Yea
Are the sway bar endlinks like 2 feet long and can be easily disconnected... Yea


The application is a bit different on independent suspension vehicles
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: AutobahnSHO on July 07, 2017, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: Submariner on July 05, 2017, 01:31:49 PM
The H1 was IRS/IFS, too, right?

Yup.

(http://www.nf6x.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/1999/12/p36.jpg)

(http://ccsurplus.com/sites/ccsurplus.com/files/hummer%20%231%20005.JPG)

And in the rear, the brakes are mounted inside of the CV axles
(https://nebula.wsimg.com/obj/QjcxNjBFN0FCNjdEOEU2NDQ3QTE6ZjQ2YjQ0OTU1MzI5ZTY3YzkwZGFjYTk4ZDU2Yjg3ZTg6Ojo6OjA=)

I've never ever seen one that looked like the one on the right here

(http://image.trucktrend.com/f/34625665+re0+ar0+st0/1110dp_02%2Boctober_2011_military_power_the_humvee_gets_a_lift%2Bhumvee_comparison.jpg)
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: BimmerM3 on July 07, 2017, 02:19:05 PM
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 07, 2017, 01:51:11 PM
And in the rear, the brakes are mounted inside of the CV axles
(https://nebula.wsimg.com/obj/QjcxNjBFN0FCNjdEOEU2NDQ3QTE6ZjQ2YjQ0OTU1MzI5ZTY3YzkwZGFjYTk4ZDU2Yjg3ZTg6Ojo6OjA=)

I did not know they did that. Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Mercedes G-Class to gain an Independent Front Suspension and Turbo I6 Engines
Post by: Cookie Monster on July 08, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
Man, inboard brakes would be cool to have if they weren't such a pain in the dick to service.