For Midwest Kevin. :thumbsup:
https://jalopnik.com/i-just-made-my-final-car-payment-and-i-now-vow-to-never-1822516066
He's got a point about the depreciation hit and the interest ended up being about a tenth of the price of the car?!?!?!!!
( I am TOTALLY NOT saying never get a car loan. )
Yeah, read that at Jalopnik. One of their dumbest articles ever.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 31, 2018, 08:25:14 AM
Yeah, read that at Jalopnik. One of their dumbest articles ever.
LOL
Quote from: Rockraven on January 31, 2018, 08:25:14 AM
Yeah, read that at Jalopnik. One of their dumbest articles ever.
I agree.
He paid $850 dollars in interest over the course of 4 years, to drive a solidly reliable car. That's $18 a month, or roughly the price of a pancake breakfast, coffee (and tip) at Bob Evans.
Online people are so weirdly reddit-esque loan averse; it's weird. If everyone bought used cars, who tf would buy them new?
Also, if that Honda Fit is only worth $2600, I'm flying out to where he is and buying it right off him. That car is worth north of 5K.
You know what I had wayyy back in 2012? I was posting here, and y'all were so "don't get a car loan!" and with that consideration (along with others) I took money I had saved for a downpayment, and instead of buying a brand-new 2012 Mazda 2 (it was like 12,9 out the door!) I bought a shitty 2000 Ford Focus. That Ford Focus I owned for seven months, and it broke every time I looked at it, and on average it cost me roughly $350 a month in repairs. And when I let it go, it still needed at least another $1500 worth of work.
By contrast, the 2007 Toyota Yaris only cost me $122.50 a month, and the only thing that broke was
- Alternator
- Gas tank (this was my fault, I hit a big ass stick in the road)
- Wear items. Brakes, tires, etc.
My 2nd Yaris was even cheaper, at $102.60.
(The Sonic is more expensive, but it's a nicer car and I have more earning potential now)
NOT TO MENTION
In these low-wage earning jobs, even if you have the cash to buy all (or most) of the car, it's not wise to do so.
I had enough when I bought Yaris II to probably buy an older Echo, or early Scion xA. But if I had done that, I would have had $0 in the bank. Then what? What if an unexpected bill comes up? What if the new car I bought decides to lunch an engine, or transmission or something? Then I'm SOL, with a broken car, and no funds.
Setting aside a few hundred $$$ for a solidly reliable car isn't a bad idea, especially if you can get an OK interest rate.
The problem comes from people getting put into shit loans and bad situations because they don't know any better (taking out far more than they can afford, going to t a BHPH lot that will put you in an old Kia Spectra that's really worth $1200, but somehow is $5995 and 24.9% APR)
The City I live in is 60 miles wide. Even before Lyft/Uber, I drove 300 miles a week. I need (and many others) something solid. A car is a utility; stop thinking about it as a depreciating asset.
I'm so bored of this discussion. Like 2o6 kind of spoke to, what was this guy's alternative? He needed a reliable car to make a living and didn't have the money to pay for one cash. The premium in interest he paid was more than worth having to deal with the alternatives (i.e. buying a complete POS cash or losing his job). He made the right decision :huh:
Americans have the wrong attitudes towards debt. It's so extreme. Either we abuse it to our peril, or we avoid it at all costs because we don't understand how to calculate its costs and what its benefits are.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 31, 2018, 08:45:15 AM
I'm so bored of this discussion. Like 2o6 kind of spoke to, what was this guy's alternative? He needed a reliable car to make a living and didn't have the money to pay for one cash. The premium in interest he paid was more than worth having to deal with the alternatives (i.e. buying a complete POS cash or losing his job). He made the right decision :huh:
If I bought that goddamn Mazda 2 in 2012, I would still have it.
The real reason I stopped is because my parents had never had a new car before and I didn't want to "seem too haughty" by not "being humble" and buying a new car instead of a used one.
A monthly Bus Pass is $82 in Columbus, OH.
Our bus system runs like ass, goes like maybe 20% of the city area, and stops running at 12:30AM.
Lyft and Uber is expensive; I took two lyft rides to drop off and pick up my Ford Escape, that was $30.
This kind of shit is why I am pro autonomous cars. Americans just cant seem to understand the end to end costs and benefits of car ownership. This guy probably would have been happier paying more money for some kind of ride hailing service.
The cash on hand thing is a good point, especially for people who don't have a lot of cash at all. The only thing dumber than taking out a loan for a depreciating asset is emptying out your emergency fund for one :facepalm:
Quote from: 2o6 on January 31, 2018, 08:37:00 AM
He paid $850 dollars in interest over the course of 4 years, to drive a solidly reliable car. That's $18 a month, or roughly the price of a pancake breakfast, coffee (and tip) at Bob Evans.
True. Still, it was almost a tenth as much as the car cost.
I completely see your points and agree that people should evaluate all of the (good) points you mention: having some emergency savings, not financing too much, repair costs on cheaper car, etc... etc... before they finance something.
Financing itself is not a bad thing, but it's sooooo easy to finance just a little bit more than one planned on starting out with.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 31, 2018, 08:37:00 AM
If everyone bought used cars, who tf would buy them new?
Why is this of concern to you?
Why is there a mentality that anything you take a loan out for should be an appreciating asset? Just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's going to hold/increase in value forever.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 31, 2018, 08:37:00 AM
I agree.
He paid $850 dollars in interest over the course of 4 years, to drive a solidly reliable car. That's $18 a month, or roughly the price of a pancake breakfast, coffee (and tip) at Bob Evans.
Online people are so weirdly reddit-esque loan averse; it's weird. If everyone bought used cars, who tf would buy them new?
Also, if that Honda Fit is only worth $2600, I'm flying out to where he is and buying it right off him. That car is worth north of 5K.
I think you misread what he said. He said that the Fit depreciated $2600 from its original value, not that it was now worth $2600.
I bought a brand new car out college. I had a good job and could afford the loan payments without a problem. However, like the author, I found that I hated having that debt. I have managed to pay for all of my cars in cash since then. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't take a car loan if I needed it for a reliable car. It just means that I would rather save up and pay cash if possible so that I know exactly what my financial situation is at any given time.
Car loans can serve a need when used properly. The problem is that way too many people are using them to finance more than they can afford and many people roll one underwater loan into an even larger underwater loan until they are bankrupt. Sadly, there is almost always someone willing to offer another bad loan to someone in these situations.
Eh, car loans are what they are. As long as you go in knowing full well what financing will cost you, who cares. The value of having a nice, safe, reliable, not-about-to-fall-apart-when-you-look-at-it, car is worth that cost to a lot of people and I don't blame them.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 31, 2018, 09:30:03 AM
Why is this of concern to you?
If nobody buys new cars, where do used cars come from?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 31, 2018, 12:06:07 PM
If nobody buys new cars, where do used cars come from?
My (or yours or 206's) decision to buy or not buy a new car has no bearing whatsoever on whether the other 17 million or so new car buyers annually will do so. Fear not, plenty of new cars will be sold and plenty of used cars will remain available regardless of what anyone participating in this discussion chooses to do or not do.
It's a red herring argument. In making decisions, accept the world as it is not according to some fantastical "well what if EVERYONE stopped doing x?" what-if. If that happened (it won't), market prices would adjust accordingly and you'd base your decision according to that new reality.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 31, 2018, 12:12:15 PM
My (or yours or 206's) decision to buy or not buy a new car has no bearing whatsoever on whether the other 17 million or so new car buyers annually will do so. Fear not, plenty of new cars will be sold and plenty of used cars will remain available regardless of what anyone participating in this discussion chooses to do or not do.
It's a red herring argument. In making decisions, accept the world as it is not according to some fantastical "well what if EVERYONE stopped doing x?" what-if. If that happened (it won't), market prices would adjust accordingly and you'd base your decision according to that new reality.
Y'all are so puny. I single handedly got Trump elected with my comments on CarSpin. Imagine what I could do tl the used car market.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 31, 2018, 01:25:36 PM
Y'all are so puny. I single handedly got Trump elected with my comments on CarSpin. Imagine what I could do tl the used car market.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/qEEpfoLSbgPNC/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Lebowski on January 31, 2018, 12:12:15 PM
My (or yours or 206's) decision to buy or not buy a new car has no bearing whatsoever on whether the other 17 million or so new car buyers annually will do so. Fear not, plenty of new cars will be sold and plenty of used cars will remain available regardless of what anyone participating in this discussion chooses to do or not do.
It's a red herring argument. In making decisions, accept the world as it is not according to some fantastical "well what if EVERYONE stopped doing x?" what-if. If that happened (it won't), market prices would adjust accordingly and you'd base your decision according to that new reality.
TBH, I was hoping for a much more whimsical answer.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 31, 2018, 01:25:36 PM
Y'all are so puny. I single handedly got Trump elected with my comments on CarSpin. Imagine what I could do tl the used car market.
:lol:
You buying the Pacifica will single highhandedly be worth 10 American jobs.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 31, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
:lol:
You buying the Pacifica will single highhandedly be worth 10 American jobs.
Minivans will be both cool again and acceptable for wealthy women.
La Pacifica es muy guapa~~
Across the board, our society has lost all sense of proportionality. Few things are all good or all bad. Whether they are good or bad depends on certain factors. Yet we insist on imposing this all good or all bad judgment to just about everything.
Car loans can be good and they can be bad. It depends on personal circumstances, alternatives in the absence of a loan, debt to income, interest rate, etc.
I wouldn't avoid a car loan if I needed reliable transportation to get to a job, and only had $1,000 in the bank. A broken down old car has so many repair costs that you might as well have a car loan. On the other hand, I think it's a mistake to finance or lease expensive cars and allow loan payments to be too high a percentage of income.
Unless it is given to us, none of us start out with a pile of money for things like cars and houses; they need to be accumulated over time and we do have to live in the interim. Having a reliable car can enhance earning and employment options, so it would be foolish to eschew a reasonable amount of debt and lose options. But too much debt is a significant headwind to ever accumulating any real assets.
I had car loans when I was younger, and I don't think it was a mistake.
Like most articles that are turning up in various crevices of the internet, that article is junk, based on faulty reasoning. "Democratization" is not always a good idea if it simply means that all standards go into the sewer, and that is the case with publishing these days. Anybody can write an article without knowing anything on the subject, and we have to remember that when we read this junk.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 31, 2018, 01:25:36 PM
Y'all are so puny. I single handedly got Trump elected with my comments on CarSpin. Imagine what I could do tl the used car market.
We really don't need you distorting our markets. Forget the used car market, I'm afraid you're going to create a bad bubble in the stock market. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!!! :lol:
Quote from: dazzleman on February 01, 2018, 05:09:24 AM
Across the board, our society has lost all sense of proportionality. Few things are all good or all bad. Whether they are good or bad depends on certain factors. Yet we insist on imposing this all good or all bad judgment to just about everything.
Car loans can be good and they can be bad. It depends on personal circumstances, alternatives in the absence of a loan, debt to income, interest rate, etc.
I wouldn't avoid a car loan if I needed reliable transportation to get to a job, and only had $1,000 in the bank. A broken down old car has so many repair costs that you might as well have a car loan. On the other hand, I think it's a mistake to finance or lease expensive cars and allow loan payments to be too high a percentage of income.
Unless it is given to us, none of us start out with a pile of money for things like cars and houses; they need to be accumulated over time and we do have to live in the interim. Having a reliable car can enhance earning and employment options, so it would be foolish to eschew a reasonable amount of debt and lose options. But too much debt is a significant headwind to ever accumulating any real assets.
I had car loans when I was younger, and I don't think it was a mistake.
Like most articles that are turning up in various crevices of the internet, that article is junk, based on faulty reasoning. "Democratization" is not always a good idea if it simply means that all standards go into the sewer, and that is the case with publishing these days. Anybody can write an article without knowing anything on the subject, and we have to remember that when we read this junk.
Pretty much agree with everything above.
For me I also ran in to the convenience factor. My first few cars I didn't get a loan (bought used cars with cash). This continued for the new cars as well right up until my current car. I decided to get a loan (from my bank, not the dealer FWIW) so that i wouldn't have to cash out savings or stocks.
But here you point about the payments not being a huge portion of your income is the key. I had the loan paid off in ~7 months so I didn't see it as a big deal. In that time a paid a couple hundred dollars in interest, but my savings account generated about half as much itself so my true "net" interest cost was like a hundred bucks. To me that was definitely worth the convenience of buying the car when I wanted it (as opposed to waiting 6-7 months and paying cash) while still keeping my cash cushion intact.
~15 years ago I bought (with a loan) a brand new RX8 2 weeks after I started my job out of college that cost probably about 50% of my annual salary.
No regrets and I if I was given the option I would absolutely do it again.
Life is too short to drive used CR-Vs from start to finish.
I´ve taken loans on and off over the years.
- Plymouth Breeze (24mo loan)
- Used E36 (paid cash)
- New E46 323i (36mo loan, got stolen on month 7)
- New E46 328Ci (48mo lease, paid for it in the end and kept it a couple more years)
- Ex-wife´s New Liberty 4x4 (36mo loan)
- New MINI Cooper Cabrio (cash)
- New E46 M3 (cash)
- New E90 M3 (cash)
- New 1M (18mo loan with 70%down)
- Cooper Countryman (50% down, no payments for 18 months, 50% final payment no interest loan)
- Used E60 M5 (Cash)
- X5 (36mo lease)
- GT4 (48mo 1/3rd lease)
On these last two: I own a 10% share of the leasing company. That share is worth more than both cars if paid for in cash. Took the lease partially to help the leasing company to get started.
It depends on preferences and circumstances at each point. I do think that cars that are really "toys" one should definitely strive to pay cash.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 07:48:00 AM
Life is too short to drive used CR-Vs from start to finish.
Life is too short to be a slave to consumer debt.
Lots of strawman in this thread, I don't think anyone has ever refuted that financing a reliable car to get to work when you just started your first job and only have $1,000 in the bank may make sense. I get that,
but you should really only be in that situation once or twice in your adult life. If that first car you financed was new or late model used and you maintain it, you should be able to keep it at least 5-6 years, and really more like 10+ years. 5 or 6 or 7 or 10 years down the line when it's time to replace it, you're now in a position to not have to borrow to have a decent car right? If not, why? Why has financing become the norm way beyond that initial car purchase when starting out, to the point of perpetual car payments throughout ones adult life? This is also the point of the article btw, the author says he didn't have a choice when he bought that first car, he's just saying he doesn't want a car loan again.
Take a 45 year old working professional who's established in his/her career and has been making a good living for the last 20+ years. Why is borrowing to buy a car the norm for this situation? In many cases for a luxury car too.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 07:56:58 AM
Life is too short to be a slave to consumer debt.
Lots of strawman in this thread, I don't think anyone has ever refuted that financing a reliable car to get to work when you just started your first job and only have $1,000 in the bank may make sense. I get that, but you should really only be in that situation once or twice in your adult life. If that first car you financed was new and you maintain it, you should be able to keep it at least 5-6 years, and really more like 10+ years. 5 or 6 or 7 or 10 years down the line when it's time to replace it, you're now in a position to not have to borrow to have a decent car right? If not, why? Why has financing become the norm way beyond that initial car purchase when starting out, to the point of perpetual car payments throughout ones adult life? This is also the point of the article btw, the author says he didn't have a choice when he bought that first car, he's just saying he doesn't want a car loan again.
Take a 45 year old working professional who's established in his/her career and has been making a good living for the last 20+ years. Why is borrowing to buy a car the norm for this situation? In many cases for a luxury car too.
This. Setting aside and saving money to be applied to your next car purchase should be a part of everyone's budget so that they are able to pay cash for their next car instead of continuously rolling payments. This might mean, *gasp*, not financing the maximum you can afford so you can put some cash aside each month to save for your next car when you are just starting out and financing your first car or two.
Quote from: MX793 on February 01, 2018, 08:39:54 AM
This. Setting aside and saving money to be applied to your next car purchase should be a part of everyone's budget so that they are able to pay cash for their next car instead of continuously rolling payments. This might mean, *gasp*, not financing the maximum you can afford so you can put some cash aside each month to save for your next car when you are just starting out and financing your first car or two.
All people have to do is pay off the car, put the equivalent payments into the bank as savings for the next car, and KEEP THE PAID OFF CAR.
Too many people flip cars every 2-5years and stay in perpetual "pay someone interest" mode.
Also, people finance too much car so they have to get a 7-8 year loan. They should buy a cheaper car and finance for 4-5years and then save.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 07:56:58 AM
Life is too short to be a slave to consumer debt.
Lots of strawman in this thread, I don't think anyone has ever refuted that financing a reliable car to get to work when you just started your first job and only have $1,000 in the bank may make sense. I get that, but you should really only be in that situation once or twice in your adult life. If that first car you financed was new or late model used and you maintain it, you should be able to keep it at least 5-6 years, and really more like 10+ years. 5 or 6 or 7 or 10 years down the line when it's time to replace it, you're now in a position to not have to borrow to have a decent car right? If not, why? Why has financing become the norm way beyond that initial car purchase when starting out, to the point of perpetual car payments throughout ones adult life? This is also the point of the article btw, the author says he didn't have a choice when he bought that first car, he's just saying he doesn't want a car loan again.
Take a 45 year old working professional who's established in his/her career and has been making a good living for the last 20+ years. Why is borrowing to buy a car the norm for this situation? In many cases for a luxury car too.
I agree with you.
Who really cares tho
Idk it seems like much ado about nothing. Unless you're totally underwater, I don't care about a car payment
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 01, 2018, 08:51:49 AM
All people have to do is pay off the car, put the equivalent payments into the bank as savings for the next car, and KEEP THE PAID OFF CAR.
Too many people flip cars every 2-5years and stay in perpetual "pay someone interest" mode.
Also, people finance too much car so they have to get a 7-8 year loan. They should buy a cheaper car and finance for 4-5years and then save.
For some people a perpetual car loan is acceptable and negligible in their overall realm of financial activity. Everyone has their own priorities. Everyone has their own financial case to analyze.
Stone carvings sent down from the top of My Hippocratai with absolute rules engraved in them are downright dreadful.
Interest on cars is IMO negligible when you spend less than 25k. On a 60 month loan, a 25k car only has 2k of interest over 5 years. That's such a negligible amount, if you had that 2k, what would you truly do with it?
I know for me, 2k over five years would probably be a night's worth of drinking every month. It seems much fuss over such a small amount of money.
Quote from: dazzleman on February 01, 2018, 05:09:24 AM
Across the board, our society has lost all sense of proportionality. Few things are all good or all bad. Whether they are good or bad depends on certain factors. Yet we insist on imposing this all good or all bad judgment to just about everything.
Car loans can be good and they can be bad. It depends on personal circumstances, alternatives in the absence of a loan, debt to income, interest rate, etc.
I wouldn't avoid a car loan if I needed reliable transportation to get to a job, and only had $1,000 in the bank. A broken down old car has so many repair costs that you might as well have a car loan. On the other hand, I think it's a mistake to finance or lease expensive cars and allow loan payments to be too high a percentage of income.
Unless it is given to us, none of us start out with a pile of money for things like cars and houses; they need to be accumulated over time and we do have to live in the interim. Having a reliable car can enhance earning and employment options, so it would be foolish to eschew a reasonable amount of debt and lose options. But too much debt is a significant headwind to ever accumulating any real assets.
I had car loans when I was younger, and I don't think it was a mistake.
Like most articles that are turning up in various crevices of the internet, that article is junk, based on faulty reasoning. "Democratization" is not always a good idea if it simply means that all standards go into the sewer, and that is the case with publishing these days. Anybody can write an article without knowing anything on the subject, and we have to remember that when we read this junk.
I agree with this.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 01, 2018, 10:01:38 AM
Interest on cars is IMO negligible when you spend less than 25k. On a 60 month loan, a 25k car only has 2k of interest over 5 years. That's such a negligible amount, if you had that 2k, what would you truly do with it?
I know for me, 2k over five years would probably be a night's worth of drinking every month. It seems much fuss over such a small amount of money.
Exactly
I will say it was nice not having a payment, but having a payment doesn't make me feel a huge amount of dread every month.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 01, 2018, 10:01:38 AM
Interest on cars is IMO negligible when you spend less than 25k. On a 60 month loan, a 25k car only has 2k of interest over 5 years. That’s such a negligible amount, if you had that 2k, what would you truly do with it?
I know for me, 2k over five years would probably be a night’s worth of drinking every month. It seems much fuss over such a small amount of money.
2k over the next 5 years, invested at your age, would be some nice money at retirement age. Could also buy someone a computer and cellphone, books for college, whatever.
Again, debt is not totally evil but too many over-extend. People that lock themselves into perpetual payments are slaves to that bank.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 01, 2018, 10:01:38 AM
Interest on cars is IMO negligible when you spend less than 25k. On a 60 month loan, a 25k car only has 2k of interest over 5 years. That's such a negligible amount, if you had that 2k, what would you truly do with it?
I know for me, 2k over five years would probably be a night's worth of drinking every month. It seems much fuss over such a small amount of money.
I like the way you think. I think it will drive you to make more money over time. As has already been happening the last few years.
I once attended an entrepreneurship talk where part of the advice was, seriously, to get a yacht. Because keeping and maintaining that thing can ONLY be done if you make money.
Here there's a lot of talk about being a "slave"to debt. Well, that is only if the debt keeps you awake at night. If you can carry the debt with calm that leverage can enable you to make a lot more money. Debt can be a multiplier of worth if used wisely. In the end, personal risk tolerance plays a huge factor.
Some people can't sleep at night with even very little debt. For them, being debt free I think is a good goal, because in the end, life is about some sort of happiness.
Some can carry large amounts of debt with no worries. If used wisely, it can make a lot of money. Not wisely, bankruptcy and pain.
ALSO, the biggest problem with debt is that it is soooooo EASY to get.
People get a loan for something they "need" and then before they know it, they owe tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars on stuff they can't sell off to pay off the debt. It's a big trap that gets lots of Americans.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:02 AM
Some people can't sleep at night with even very little debt. For them, being debt free I think is a good goal, because in the end, life is about some sort of happiness.
Some can carry large amounts of debt with no worries. If used wisely, it can make a lot of money. Not wisely, bankruptcy and pain.
It all depends on how much and what the debt is for, and how they manage the rest of their finances.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 01, 2018, 10:07:54 AM
ALSO, the biggest problem with debt is that it is soooooo EASY to get.
People get a loan for something they "need" and then before they know it, they owe tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars on stuff they can't sell off to pay off the debt. It's a big trap that gets lots of Americans.
That's not a debt/spending issue, it's a personal control issue. Substitute spending/debt with drugs/alcohol/hookers/smoking or anything else people do that is terrible for them but they do anyway
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:02 AM
I like the way you think. I think it will drive you to make more money over time. As has already been happening the last few years.
I once attended an entrepreneurship talk where part of the advice was, seriously, to get a yacht. Because keeping and maintaining that thing can ONLY be done if you make money.
Here there's a lot of talk about being a "slave"to debt. Well, that is only if the debt keeps you awake at night. If you can carry the debt with calm that leverage can enable you to make a lot more money. Debt can be a multiplier of worth if used wisely. In the end, personal risk tolerance plays a huge factor.
Some people can't sleep at night with even very little debt. For them, being debt free I think is a good goal, because in the end, life is about some sort of happiness.
Some can carry large amounts of debt with no worries. If used wisely, it can make a lot of money. Not wisely, bankruptcy and pain.
It's funny that you mentioned a yacht. The owner of the last company that I worked for bought a yacht and a Porsche early in his career when his first company was just starting to take off. He wrecked the yacht on its maiden voyage and got rid of the Porsche when he sold the company to his partner. Fast forward 30 years or so and he sold his second company to a larger corporation for a handsome sum and he bought a 911 turbo and another yacht. This time he hired someone to captain the yacht.
Quote from: r0tor on February 01, 2018, 09:58:11 AM
For some people a perpetual car loan is acceptable and negligible in their overall realm of financial activity. Everyone has their own priorities. Everyone has their own financial case to analyze.
The obvious logical fallacy being if the dollar amount is so negligible, why borrow it?
There may be some subsegment of the population who leases for convenience (this argument doesn't extend to financing, there is no convenience benefit to financing) and for whom the dollar amount truly is negligible. I'm going to go out on a limb and say such people are IMO in the exteme minority, in fact I think it's fair to say they are a
negligible portion of the car shopping population.
Sorry, no absolute rules from on high, that strawman's gonna remain unsatisfied.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 01, 2018, 10:01:38 AM
Interest on cars is IMO negligible when you spend less than 25k. On a 60 month loan, a 25k car only has 2k of interest over 5 years. That's such a negligible amount, if you had that 2k, what would you truly do with it?
I know for me, 2k over five years would probably be a night's worth of drinking every month. It seems much fuss over such a small amount of money.
Your original point was WRT people who finance because they don't have any money. To someone with <$1,000 in the bank, $2,000 is not negligible.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:02 AM
I once attended an entrepreneurship talk where part of the advice was, seriously, to get a yacht. Because keeping and maintaining that thing can ONLY be done if you make money.
This is the dumbest advice in the world.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 10:07:02 AM
I like the way you think. I think it will drive you to make more money over time. As has already been happening the last few years.
I once attended an entrepreneurship talk where part of the advice was, seriously, to get a yacht. Because keeping and maintaining that thing can ONLY be done if you make money.
Here there's a lot of talk about being a "slave"to debt. Well, that is only if the debt keeps you awake at night. If you can carry the debt with calm that leverage can enable you to make a lot more money. Debt can be a multiplier of worth if used wisely. In the end, personal risk tolerance plays a huge factor.
Some people can't sleep at night with even very little debt. For them, being debt free I think is a good goal, because in the end, life is about some sort of happiness.
Some can carry large amounts of debt with no worries. If used wisely, it can make a lot of money. Not wisely, bankruptcy and pain.
Yes, debt can be a multiplier of wealth when used wisely, but not really when it's used for depreciating assets that coat more than optimally necessary for the function they play.
Quote from: MX793 on February 01, 2018, 08:39:54 AM
This. Setting aside and saving money to be applied to your next car purchase should be a part of everyone's budget so that they are able to pay cash for their next car instead of continuously rolling payments. This might mean, *gasp*, not financing the maximum you can afford so you can put some cash aside each month to save for your next car when you are just starting out and financing your first car or two.
Why? The only difference between these two scenarios is the cost of interest, and for people who need them, moral victories on the internet :lol:
This analysis is absent of context, just as it always is. Say you have someone saving a good chunk towards retirement, sitting on a decent nest egg, carrying no high interest consumer debt (i.e. pay day loans, personal loans, CC debt for non-emergencies). How is this person a "consumer debt slave"? The only difference between them and someone putting that money aside every month to pay cash is the cost of interest, their account balance, and again, if they need it, that meaningless ability to say "im better than people who take out loans". I mean Lebowski you said if someone's interest is cars then spending more/financing makes sense, just as it would for any other interest. What's changed?
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
This is the dumbest advice in the world.
Taken out of context it sounds like it, yeah. But the main gist is that for some people challenging themselves by locking into a high level of expenses can be a financial success driver. Not for everyone.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 11:37:37 AM
Taken out of context it sounds like it, yeah. But the main gist is that for some people challenging themselves by locking into a high level of expenses can be a financial success driver. Not for everyone.
In any context it's terrible advice. I don't really buy that people need to put a consumer debt gun to their head to "stay motivated", IMP that's mostly a lie people tell themselves to justify buying toys. If it really is the case, maybe do some internal reflection and find something healthier to motivate you.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 11:27:28 AM
Why? The only difference between these two scenarios is the cost of interest, and for people who need them, moral victories on the internet :lol:
This analysis is absent of context, just as it always is. Say you have someone saving a good chunk towards retirement, sitting on a decent nest egg, carrying no high interest consumer debt (i.e. pay day loans, personal loans, CC debt for non-emergencies). How is this person a "consumer debt slave"? The only difference between them and someone putting that money aside every month to pay cash is the cost of interest, their account balance, and again, if they need it, that meaningless ability to say "im better than people who take out loans". I mean Lebowski you said if someone's interest is cars then spending more/financing makes sense, just as it would for any other interest. What's changed?
Not sure what you mean what's changed - personally I'd never use debt to buy a toy, there's no change there.
Sure, a car enthusiast can justify spending more on a car, all else equal, than a non car enthusiast. If having a fun car is important to the enthusiast, spend less money elsewhere (presumably the non car enthusiast has other interests they spend money on that the car enthusiast doesn't), save up, and buy the car :huh:
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 11:40:23 AM
In any context it's terrible advice. I don't really buy that people need to put a consumer debt gun to their head to "stay motivated", that's a lie people tell themselves to justify buying toys.
This is why you keep getting called on throwing "absolute truths" around. How can you really tell that those people lie to themselves? Is it impossible for someone who loves yachts or cars or whatever to motivate himself to financial success that way?
I know that when I went through a company bankruptcy back in the early '00s holding on to my goddam 328Ci was important to me. Now that I am older with different priorities it probably wouldn't be but back then it was.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 11:45:38 AM
This is why you keep getting called on throwing "absolute truths" around. How can you really tell that those people lie to themselves? Is it impossible for someone who loves yachts or cars or whatever to motivate himself to financial success that way?
I know that when I went through a company bankruptcy back in the early '00s holding on to my goddam 328Ci was important to me. Now that I am older with different priorities it probably wouldn't be but back then it was.
An absolute rule would be saying something like "never finance a car under any circumstances", which I haven't said, and have given specific examples where doing so makes sense. Not sure how you got "absolute truth" from that, there are absolute truths in the world. 2+2=4, that's an absolute truth, call me out for saying that all you'd like.
Of course people can be motivated by yachts. If you really want a yacht, make money, save money, make cuts to less important parts of your budget, and buy a yacht. That's not what you said, going out and buying something on credit today and basically using the ensuing high overhead as a "motivator" is retarded, sorry.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 11:56:40 AM
An absolute rule would be saying something like "never finance a car under any circumstances", which I haven't said, and have given specific examples where doing so makes sense. Not sure how you got "absolute truth" from that, there are absolute truths in the world. 2+2=4, that's an absolute truth, call me out for saying that all you'd like.
Of course people can be motivated by yachts. If you really want a yacht, make money, save money, make cuts to less important parts of your budget, and buy a yacht. That's not what you said, going out and buying something on credit today and basically using the ensuing high overhead as a "motivator" is retarded, sorry.
Because I guess only Lebowski Approved Motivators (TM) work, right? Counterexamples be damned.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 12:01:03 PM
Because I guess only Lebowski Approved Motivators (TM) work, right? Counterexamples be damned.
Consumer debt and high overhead related to yesterday's discretionary purchases are lousy motivators, sorry.
If you're a boating enthusiast (which only a small % of the population are fwiw, and I don't recall being mentioned at all in your story), go buy a boat you can afford and maybe even save for a nicer one down the line. The advice in your example is stupid, I hope you didn't pay for it.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 11:43:19 AM
Sure, a car enthusiast can justify spending more on a car, all else equal, than a non car enthusiast. If having a fun car is important to the enthusiast, spend less money elsewhere (presumably the non car enthusiast has other interests they spend money on that the car enthusiast doesn't), save up, and buy the car :huh:
What is gained by doing this rather than financing? And this doesn't jive with what you said here:
Quote from: Lebowski on December 11, 2017, 07:43:47 PM
Buy a reasonable used car and keep it for awhile, is not overly extravagant at all.
People make decisions based on their own values, wants, and needs, spend money on what brings you value. If a nice car is important enough for someone to go into debt for, fair enough
So yes, something has changed. Here going into debt for a nice car was "fair enough", now you are back to prescribing that the only acceptable way to buy a car is to pay cash. Make up your mind
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 12:40:22 PM
What is gained by doing this rather than financing? And this doesn't jive with what you said here:
So yes, something has changed. Here going into debt for a nice car was "fair enough", now you are back to prescribing that the only acceptable way to buy a car is to pay cash. Make up your mind
You're digging deep here. I'm sure you've got a point in there somewhere, I'm not sure what it is other than taking my statements to the literal extreme and misrepresenting my opinions and personal habits as some sort of unbending rules.
I personally would never finance a toy and I don't think doing so is a very good idea. If you want to, have at it :huh:
As if "fair enough" is a ringing endorsement of consumer debt, Jesus Christ Sporty you're desperate to score a point.
The person relying on the loan has less flexibility if a financial hardship falls on them.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 10:53:38 AM
The obvious logical fallacy being if the dollar amount is so negligible, why borrow it?
There may be some subsegment of the population who leases for convenience (this argument doesn't extend to financing, there is no convenience benefit to financing) and for whom the dollar amount truly is negligible. I'm going to go out on a limb and say such people are IMO in the exteme minority, in fact I think it's fair to say they are a negligible portion of the car shopping population.
Sorry, no absolute rules from on high, that strawman's gonna remain unsatisfied.
A person strapped for cash can choose to stop going to bars (or some other habit) for 3 years in exchange for a modest loan on a car that's not a piece of crap and will get them reliably to their job and perhaps even give them some satisfaction in life.... Instead of cutting the same activities for 3 years and having to risk employment and spend money on repairs on a beater while they save up. That's pretty much the foundation of credit/debt.
That's their decision and it can be made rationally without a stone carved set of financial rules.
Quote from: r0tor on February 01, 2018, 12:54:15 PM
A person strapped for cash can choose to stop going to bars (or some other habit) for 3 years in exchange for a modest loan on a car that's not a piece of crap and will get them reliably to their job and perhaps even give them some satisfaction in life.
That's their decision and it can be made rationally without a stone carved set of financial rules.
Right, and this is entirely consistent with my statements in this thread and elsewhere on this forum over the last 10+ years :huh:
Of course, the above example relating to a person "strapped for cash" has nothing whatsoever to do with your previous example where a perpetual payment was "negligible", I replied to that statement and I have no idea why you replied to that with the above :nutty:
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 12:56:28 PM
Right, and this is entirely consistent with my statements in this thread and elsewhere on this forum over the last 10+ years :huh:
It involves them taking a loan rather then comoletely useless self sacrifice for 3 years.
Quote from: MX793 on February 01, 2018, 12:47:19 PM
The person relying on the loan has less flexibility if a financial hardship falls on them.
Yes. Thus, that person will have extra motivation to not fall into financial hardship in the first place.
Cortez famously burned his boats to eliminate the option of going back to Spain when conquering Mexico. Did that motivate the Spanish? You bet.
Quote from: r0tor on February 01, 2018, 01:01:35 PM
It involves them taking a loan rather then comoletely useless self sacrifice for 3 years.
Sure. What does this have to do with the person for whom a perpetual car payment is "negligible", and how does this contradict what I've said previously ITT or elsewhere? Or are you simply rambling just to ramble at this point?
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 12:46:18 PM
You're digging deep here. I'm sure you've got a point in there somewhere, I'm not sure what it is other than taking my statements to the literal extreme and misrepresenting my opinions and personal habits as some sort of unbending rules.
I personally would never finance a toy and I don't think doing so is a very good idea. If you want to, have at it :huh:
As if "fair enough" is a ringing endorsement of consumer debt, Jesus Christ Sporty you're desperate to score a point.
I never said you made a "ringing endorsement" of anything. One post you say financing a luxury car is OK if that's what you're into, the next you're saying it's irresponsible and unacceptable under any circumstance. I'm just trying to reconcile the flip flopping.
Quote from: MX793 on February 01, 2018, 12:47:19 PM
The person relying on the loan has less flexibility if a financial hardship falls on them.
How do you figure? Say persons B and F buy $30K cars. B = bought, F = financed. All else is equal. Both lose their jobs on the same day. B is out the full $30K in their account, F is only out what they've paid on the loan up to that point. If replacing the car with something cheaper is an option then all F will be out on is the interest they've paid up to that point. If not F is still up the balance of the loan cash wise. If F is in the position where the note on the car is make or break financially, again all else is equal- neither of them should have bought the car in the first place. So where is B's heightened flexibility?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
I never said you made a "ringing endorsement" of anything. One post you say financing a luxury car is OK if that's what you're into, the next you're saying it's irresponsible and unacceptable. I'm just trying to reconcile the flip flopping.
Post the quote where I said it's "irresponsible and unacceptable", please.
2 months ago I said "fair enough". I've always said I wouldn't do it and I generally don't think it's a very good idea. If you think you've caught me contradicting myself, and you clearly do, you're stretching. Plus most of what you've attributed to me is a strawman ... but hey without that you wouldn't be Strawman Sporty, would you?
Like I said, I wouldn't finance a toy and generally don't think doing so is a good idea. If you want to do it, have at it, ie if you want to do it and you've thought it through, "fair enough". There's nothing contradictory about that statement.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
So where is B's heightened flexibility?
Im this scenario it is actually F who has more flexibility. B, now without a job probably won't qualify for a loan. B probably HAS to sell the car to generate cash (and realize an immediate loss). F has money in the bank (that didn't go towards paying cash for the car) and now has much more flexibility to face the jobless period.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 01:10:49 PM
Post the quote where I said it's "irresponsible and unacceptable", please.
2 months ago I said "fair enough". I've always said I wouldn't do it and I generally don't think it's a very good idea. If you think you've caught me contradicting myself, and you clearly do, you're stretching. Plus most of what you've attributed to me is a strawman ... but hey without that you wouldn't be Strawman Sporty, would you?
Like I said, I wouldn't finance a toy and generally don't think doing so is a good idea. If you want to do it, have at it, ie if you want to do it and you've thought it through, "fair enough". There's nothing contradictory about that statement.
Whatever man. At one point in time you deemed it acceptable to finance a "toy" (which these are not- these are people's daily drivers) if that's what you're into, now you don't. If pointing out a contradiction is a strawman then you and I have different definitions of it.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 01, 2018, 01:11:19 PM
Im this scenario it is actually F who has more flexibility. B, now without a job probably won't qualify for a loan. B probably HAS to sell the car to generate cash (and realize an immediate loss). F has money in the bank (that didn't go towards paying cash for the car) and now has much more flexibility to face the jobless period.
Well hopefully MX793 can weigh in with an explanation to demonstrate the contrary.
Re F and B you are assuming all else equal. In reality if F is like the majority of car financers he's financing so he can get more car than he can otherwise afford, lives at his means, and likely has other consumer debt. If B is like the majority of cash buyers he lives below his means, avoids consumer debt, and has substantial cash cushion. B has more flexibility because he spends less than he earns, has low fixed costs, and has cash in the bank.
No one here or elsewhere has advocated paying cash if doing so utilizes your last dollar :huh: If that were the case, B would have bought a $10k car.
So in other words we are assuming the worst of F and the best of B to arrive at the conclusion you want to. What a productive exercise.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 01:16:16 PM
Whatever man. At one point in time you deemed it acceptable to finance a "toy" (which these are not- these are people's daily drivers) if that's what you're into, now you don't. If pointing out a contradiction is a strawman then you and I have
I'm saying I didn't contradict myself, and the only way you can argue I did is by using your usual strawman tactics, including erroneously claiming I said it was "irresponsible and unacceptable". I didn't say that, and you can't post the quote because I didn't say it.
I did say "fair enough", in an unrelated thread and iirc in somewhat different context. Even if the context was identical, "fair enough" is hardly an endorsement of using consumer debt to buy toys and is in no way contradictory to my position that I wouldn't do so personally and generally don't think it's a good idea.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 01:21:55 PM
So in other words we are assuming the worst of F and the best of B to arrive at the conclusion you want to. What a productive exercise.
You can assume whatever you want, I am assuming F acts like someone who utilizes consumer debt and B acts like someone who does not.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 01, 2018, 10:07:54 AM
ALSO, the biggest problem with debt is that it is soooooo EASY to get.
People get a loan for something they "need" and then before they know it, they owe tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars on stuff they can't sell off to pay off the debt. It's a big trap that gets lots of Americans.
That's a personal problem for people that think they need to pay for financial advice from Gordon Ramsay.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 01, 2018, 01:28:48 PM
That's a personal problem for people that think they need to pay for financial advice from Gordon Ramsay.
Or the thousands upon thousands of Americans who don't know who Ramsey is. :huh:
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 01:03:47 PM
Sure. What does this have to do with the person for whom a perpetual car payment is "negligible", and how does this contradict what I've said previously ITT or elsewhere? Or are you simply rambling just to ramble at this point?
Fucktard - all decisions should be made out of s person's individual case... Different people have different reasons for doing things.
In both cases your menatilty is crap.
Quote from: r0tor on February 01, 2018, 02:51:57 PM
Fucktard - all decisions should be made out of s person's individual case... Different people have different reasons for doing things.
In both cases your menatilty is crap.
Do you think you are refuting anything I have said?
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 03:13:09 PM
Do you think you are refuting anything I have said?
Don't need to refute arrogance and ignorance, just point it out
Quote from: r0tor on February 01, 2018, 03:14:19 PM
Don't need to refute arrogance and ignorance, just point it out
Right, just keep rambling on. Whoever posts the most words wins right.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
How do you figure? Say persons B and F buy $30K cars. B = bought, F = financed. All else is equal. Both lose their jobs on the same day. B is out the full $30K in their account, F is only out what they've paid on the loan up to that point. If replacing the car with something cheaper is an option then all F will be out on is the interest they've paid up to that point. If not F is still up the balance of the loan cash wise. If F is in the position where the note on the car is make or break financially, again all else is equal- neither of them should have bought the car in the first place. So where is B's heightened flexibility?
In case it wasn't clear by the word "rely", I'm talking about the person who HAS to take a loan and not someone who could have paid cash but chose to take a loan.
Specifically, I'm talking about the person who goes their entire adult life taking out as much auto loan as the bank will give them and using their trade as the down payment on the next, with little to no additional cash, vs the person who perhaps has to take a loan on the first or first couple of cars but gradually weans themselves off of the NEED to take a loan out and can now afford to pay cash. If you don't think the person who put themselves in the position to be able to pay cash doesn't have considerably more flexibility than the one who is reliant on a loan to have a car because they didn't put themselves into that position, I don't know what to tell you.
As to the person who could have afforded to pay cash but took the loan and kept that cash in the bank as some additional rainy-day emergency cash because they prefer more liquidity, yeah, it's probably about a wash in terms of what to do if/when bad luck hits. There are other benefits to paying cash if you can, but they aren't earth shattering. For example, if you're trying to get a loan for something else (like a mortgage), the fewer debts you have, the better your credit rating; which can secure you a better interest rate.
Why do you guys get so worked up over Lebowski saying car loans are typically a stupid decision? I think he's factually right. Taking out a loan and buying the 4Runner was a dumb decision. Not like life destroying or anything, but I'm not sure I would do it over again. But it's what I wanted at the time, I own up to it, and move on. Not the end of the world. :huh:
You guys take it so personal. Honestly, I think it's because some of you know deep down he's right and you can't accept that maybe you haven't always made the best financial moves. Hell, Lebowski made a lot worse one buying that M3 than most of us have made. :lol:
It's just a matter of balancing your future wants against your current wants. It takes discipline to make the correct long term decisions. You guys all keep acting like everyone who takes out car loans are broke and need a car to get to work when you know damn well most loans aren't due to that.
Quote from: MrH on February 01, 2018, 06:49:43 PM
Why do you guys get so worked up over Lebowski saying car loans are typically a stupid decision? I think he's factually right. Taking out a loan and buying the 4Runner was a dumb decision. Not like life destroying or anything, but I'm not sure I would do it over again. But it's what I wanted at the time, I own up to it, and move on. Not the end of the world. :huh:
You guys take it so personal. Honestly, I think it's because some of you know deep down he's right and you can't accept that maybe you haven't always made the best financial moves. Hell, Lebowski made a lot worse one buying that M3 than most of us have made. :lol:
It's just a matter of balancing your future wants against your current wants. It takes discipline to make the correct long term decisions. You guys all keep acting like everyone who takes out car loans are broke and need a car to get to work when you know damn well most loans aren't due to that.
:clap: I'm guilty even with my self set cap of 30K.........
Quote from: MrH on February 01, 2018, 06:49:43 PM
Why do you guys get so worked up over Lebowski saying car loans are typically a stupid decision?
Because THE ARROGANCE!!!
No, I really don't know why people take such offense and resort to blatant strawman arguments about such a simple, straightforward, and logically sound position. I imagine because deep down they know I'm correct, while in many cases have long been telling themselves otherwise. The lies people tell themselves are often the biggest and most dangerous lies of all - "I'm borrowing money for this luxury car purchase so I can invest more" or worse "I need to saddle myself with consumer debt in order to stay motivated!" Uh, no you're not, and really, no you don't.
This thread is funny to follow, and actually proves a point you guys made in the girls/boys etc. thread.
You american are very far from each others opinions, very polarized. You guys also enjoy understanding each others wrong.
Anyway, my 2 cents. I bought a used, 8 year-old 184 000km driven XC90 c. 20 months ago for 20 000 euros (let's not compare prices, it was a steal). I financed 100% for 5 years and used our house a collateral. I make double the median income, in the top 10% in this nation, wife makes 30% more than I do.
We've built a house and a cottage in last couple of years, we pay over 20 000€/year on loan principal, including the car loan.
I need a car for my work, last year I drove c. 30 000 km for work, I get paid 0,41€/km to cover expenses. I've calculated, that this car pays itself (principal, interest, insurance, diesel, tires etc.) in 4 years and after that, the car will still be worth c. 7 000 euros.
So far I've driven 100 000 km and only extra costs have been 350 euroa for bearings at the back.
I could have bought a used car for 5000 euroa and paid cash, but I wanted a car that is nice to drive, is safe and can carry the family and dogs when needed.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 01, 2018, 08:02:43 PM
Because THE ARROGANCE!!!
No, I really don't know why people take such offense and resort to blatant strawman arguments about such a simple, straightforward, and logically sound position. I imagine because deep down they know I'm correct, while in many cases have long been telling themselves otherwise. The lies people tell themselves are often the biggest and most dangerous lies of all - "I'm borrowing money for this luxury car purchase so I can invest more" or worse "I need to saddle myself with consumer debt in order to stay motivated!" Uh, no you're not, and really, no you don't.
We all get the only reason you visit this forum is to get your rocks off on telling people what to do with their money - like the true trust fund baby you are... You don't need to prove it anymore.
Quote from: r0tor on February 02, 2018, 05:30:58 AM
We all get the only reason you visit this forum is to get your rocks off on telling people what to do with their money - like the true trust fund baby you are... You don't need to prove it anymore.
such haterade.
Quote from: r0tor on February 02, 2018, 05:30:58 AM
We all get the only reason you visit this forum is to get your rocks off on telling people what to do with their money - like the true trust fund baby you are... You don't need to prove it anymore.
What specifically about my position ITT do you disagree with and why?
Quote from: r0tor on February 02, 2018, 05:30:58 AM
We all get the only reason you visit this forum is to get your rocks off on telling people what to do with their money - like the true trust fund baby you are... You don't need to prove it anymore.
Dude, you are really putting in the effort to be extra dicky.
Quote from: MrH on February 01, 2018, 06:49:43 PM
Why do you guys get so worked up over Lebowski saying car loans are typically a stupid decision? I think he's factually right. Taking out a loan and buying the 4Runner was a dumb decision. Not like life destroying or anything, but I'm not sure I would do it over again. But it's what I wanted at the time, I own up to it, and move on. Not the end of the world. :huh:
...You are seriously appologizing for a decision that produced the result you desired without any downside...
Quote from: r0tor on February 02, 2018, 07:34:10 AM
...You are seriously appologizing for a decision that produced the result you desired without any downside...
Apologizing?
Carspin never fails to disappoint
Anyways, I'm off to go furnish my house via RentACenter
You're a terrible person
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 02, 2018, 08:14:22 AM
You're a terrible person
Keep the straws coming, strawman Sporty.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 02, 2018, 08:16:33 AM
Keep the straws coming, strawman Sporty.
Nobody was talking to you, get over yourself.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 02, 2018, 08:21:56 AM
Nobody was talking to you, get over yourself.
Didn't say you were. Still, quote the post (from anyone) ITT that was in reference to.
I don't really know what is happening in this thread anymore, but I just want to reiterate that I think MCM3 should get a minivan.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 02, 2018, 08:14:22 AM
You're a terrible person
You're right; I should go to Aaron's
Quote from: r0tor on February 02, 2018, 07:34:10 AM
...You are seriously appologizing for a decision that produced the result you desired without any downside...
Apologizing? :confused:
The downside is a long term financial impact that wasn't necessary.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 02, 2018, 08:13:28 AM
Carspin never fails to disappoint
Anyways, I'm off to go furnish my house via RentACenter
:lol:
Quote from: MrH on February 02, 2018, 09:05:00 AM
Apologizing? :confused:
The downside is a long term financial impact that wasn't necessary.
Run the numbers...
Quote from: Lebowski on February 02, 2018, 08:22:49 AM
Didn't say you were. Still, quote the post (from anyone) ITT that was in reference to.
It was obviously to 2o6, see his reply
Lol @ your narcissism. When have I ever done that pussy ass passive aggressive shit? If I'm going to say something to you I'm gonna say it directly.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 02, 2018, 09:51:43 AM
It was obviously to 2o6, see his reply
Right, but the terrible comment was a reference to something. What?
Passive aggressive is your middle name.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 02, 2018, 08:31:54 AM
You're right; I should go to Aaron's
Is Aaron's the same basic thing as RaC? Good to know
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 02, 2018, 10:33:39 AM
Is Aaron's the same basic thing as RaC? Good to know
yes. Everything is sold "pay $x per month!" so you can buy an Xbox for double MSRP and afford it.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 02, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
yes. Everything is sold "pay $x per month!" so you can buy an Xbox for double MSRP and afford it.
More like 10x MSRP.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 02, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
yes. Everything is sold "pay $x per month!" so you can buy an Xbox for double MSRP and afford it.
Do they offer a weekly payment plan?
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 02, 2018, 01:15:05 PM
My bad. And yes, weekly. My bad again.
Sounds like you've never even been there.
That's a good thing. :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 02, 2018, 01:22:09 PM
Sounds like you've never even been there.
That's a good thing. :lol:
I looked in one one time. Saw the prices and noped right out. Plus they don't sell the kind of stuff I'm interested in anyway.
Near Fort Campbell KY there were a lot of ads for "[WHATEVER THE NAME WAS] USA!!! WE FINANCE! Computers! Bedroom sets! Rimzzzzz!"
Just for fun I looked at their computers, woefully old and 10x overpriced. For $x/week.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 02, 2018, 01:15:05 PM
My bad. And yes, weekly. My bad again.
Good. I have a much easier time with $45 per week than $195 per month.
Quote from: MX793 on February 02, 2018, 01:51:25 PM
Good. I have a much easier time with $45 per week than $195 per month.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 02, 2018, 01:33:33 PM
I looked in one one time. Saw the prices and noped right out. Plus they don't sell the kind of stuff I'm interested in anyway.
Near Fort Campbell KY there were a lot of ads for "[WHATEVER THE NAME WAS] USA!!! WE FINANCE! Computers! Bedroom sets! Rimzzzzz!"
Just for fun I looked at their computers, woefully old and 10x overpriced. For $x/week.
LOL
http://www.hotwheelcity.com
This is a local chain; its basically a rent-to-own for rimzzz.
RAC was awesome for one of my summer internships... Rented everything for my apartment for 4 months, never had to move a damn thing - just had to make a call
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 02, 2018, 02:19:41 PM
LOL
http://www.hotwheelcity.com
This is a local chain; its basically a rent-to-own for rimzzz.
1/2 of their pictures are of Cadillacs :lol:
Wanna hear a funny story though? My dad used to work in a performance car parts shop in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale and of course they sold wheels and tires. One day this old guy came in needing some replacement hub caps for his Cadillac, because someone had apparently stolen a couple of his. My dad looked at the price of replacing the old-school wire hubcaps and was shocked. Told the guy he could get him some actual wheels that looked the same, for less money. The dude was ecstatic, because his insurance had already cut him a check for the expensive ass hubcaps. He drove home with nicer wheels and some money left over! My dad thought nothing of it, until over the next month or two they had 3-4 other old guys come into the shop. Same story - someone stole their Cadillac hubcaps and they had a check from the insurance to get new ones. Except these guys weren't too surprised when they were told about the real wheels being cheaper. Seemed to almost bring it up themselves, in fact!
Old man #1 must've told his buddies about the screamin' deal he got. Then it was just a miraculous coincidence that all of their hubcaps happened to be stolen as well. ;)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 02, 2018, 02:31:44 PM
1/2 of their pictures are of Cadillacs :lol:
Wanna hear a funny story though? My dad used to work in a performance car parts shop in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale and of course they sold wheels and tires. One day this old guy came in needing some replacement hub caps for his Cadillac, because someone had apparently stolen a couple of his. My dad looked at the price of replacing the old-school wire hubcaps and was shocked. Told the guy he could get him some actual wheels that looked the same, for less money. The dude was ecstatic, because his insurance had already cut him a check for the expensive ass hubcaps. He drove home with nicer wheels and some money left over! My dad thought nothing of it, until over the next month or two they had 3-4 other old guys come into the shop. Same story - someone stole their Cadillac hubcaps and they had a check from the insurance to get new ones. Except these guys weren't too surprised when they were told about the real wheels being cheaper. Seemed to almost bring it up themselves, in fact!
Old man #1 must've told his buddies about the screamin' deal he got. Then it was just a miraculous coincidence that all of their hubcaps happened to be stolen as well. ;)
:lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 02, 2018, 02:19:41 PM
LOL
http://www.hotwheelcity.com
This is a local chain; its basically a rent-to-own for rimzzz.
why do they always copy the easy button? On the finance page top.
I might be getting my first loan evar for a truck.
Maybe
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 08:19:32 AM
I might be getting my first loan evar for a truck.
Maybe
What a chump.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 08:19:32 AM
I might be getting my first loan evar for a truck.
Maybe
Don't do it.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 08:19:32 AM
I might be getting my first loan evar for a truck.
Maybe
How much loaned? Months? Downpayment? Worth of truck?
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 06, 2018, 09:53:52 AM
How much loaned? Months? Downpayment? Worth of truck?
$37,000 for 63 mo 12.9% apr
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 10:09:28 AM
$37,000 for 63 mo 12.9% apr
Oh man you're gonna get crucified...
TRIGGERED
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 10:09:28 AM
$37,000 for 63 mo 12.9% apr
Dude, I got 7% for used car loans, which is a really crappy interest rate. 12.9% is like credit-card crappy.
You'd be paying an extra $14k in interest alone. Highly recommend= NO, NEGATIVE, DEFINITELY NOT
DO IT
Lol dude said jump and you guys scaled a fucking mountain :wtf:
I want power windows and locks. Current truck has neither I can't reach the passenger door.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
I want power windows and locks. Current truck has neither I can't reach the passenger door.
tie cable to the door lock, get one of those electric blenders and connect it to the window
BTW no lie there is a purple/green minivan taxi rolling around Ft Drum with a hole in the tailgate and a loop of cable sticking out.
Not sticking out inside the van, but outside the van. Would be fun to open his tailgate when he's not paying attention
Quote from: 68_427 on February 06, 2018, 10:09:28 AM
$37,000 for 63 mo 12.9% apr
I think you're trying to push our buttons.... :lol:
If you're going to borrow on those terms, it should be for a sportscar.
Quote from: dazzleman on February 06, 2018, 08:12:26 PM
I think you're trying to push our buttons.... :lol:
If you're going to borrow on those terms, it should be for a sportscar.
Either a V6 Corvette or a CR-V!
Quote from: dazzleman on February 06, 2018, 08:12:26 PM
I think you're trying to push our buttons.... :lol:
If you're going to borrow on those terms, it should be for a sportscar.
Yeah $5k loan max 😂
I know we're all having fun, but I actually knew a guy that had a car loan structured similarly. 20K @ 14.9% or thereabouts. I had just bought my first car at 2.9% at that point and almost fainted when I heard what this poor guy was paying.
Ouch!
And I thought a 7% personal loan for a $2000 car was bad....
Fuck, RIP his retirement.
Some real pearls of wisdom in the comments to the original article.
Quote from: Lebowski on February 08, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
Some real pearls of wisdom in the comments to the original article.
yadda yadda ok scrooge mcduck
Quote from: 2o6 on February 08, 2018, 03:04:51 PM
yadda yadda ok scrooge mcduck
Don't be a fool. He's pretty much right, though there are degrees of how far you take any philosophy. When you're 50, sick of working, and are still wallowing in debt with minimal savings, you will wish you had listened a little more.
I offered my 18yr old working son with no driver license a proposition:
if in the next 12months he can save $3000- we will pay for a third of a used car, we will pay up to $1000.
I figure that will help him stop blowing it all on pizza, worthless clothes, and videogames. And get his license, and get a car. Should have enough to register and insure it, plus a little for immediate repairs, too.
I've seen some decent enough cars for sale, my eye was on a $3000 Pontiac Vibe AWD, had 120k miles so plenty of life left. Etc...