Infiniti Quietly Axes Q70 Luxury Sedan
The long-running Infiniti Q70 luxury sedan won't return for the 2020 model year, the automaker confirmed to Motor Authority on Thursday.
The Q70 was one of the few full-size luxury sedans still available outside of the German-automaker orbit—Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7-Series, Audi A8—although sales in recent years flagged.
Infiniti pulled the plug from the hybrid version for the 2019 model (pun intended), and this year the Q70 is gone completely.
Sales of the Infiniti Q70 flagged recently, with the automaker reporting just 2,196 sales for the first nine months of 2019, down from 3,476 from the same time period a year ago. This year, the Q70 was offered in rear- and all-wheel-drive configurations with a 5.6-liter V-8 or 3.0-liter V-6 and short- or long-wheelbase body styles.
Like many other full-size luxury sedans, sales have slowed significantly as buyers have shifted toward bigger, taller, SUV luxury flagships. Comparatively, the full-size Infiniti QX80—which uses the same 5.6-liter V-8—has sold 14,203 units through the same 9-month period in 2019—up from 13,377 in the same time period last year.
The Infiniti Q70 traces its roots back to the late 1980s, to the Infiniti Q45, which was a V-8-powered, rear-drive sedan. It was replaced in the U.S. by the Infiniti M37 and M45, later the M56, before it was renamed the Q70.
The Q70 was offered in short- and long-wheelbase body styles, rear- or all-wheel drive, with V-6 or V-8 power during its lifetime.
Infiniti hasn't yet named a successor to the Q70 but has previewed electrified vehicles that could take its place—or cede to a crossover flagship.
Infiniti spokesman Kyle Bazemore said in a statement that the automaker would, "continue to focus on consumer demand with a line of sport utility vehicles, while also remaining committed to the passenger car market with the Q50 sports sedan and Q60 sports coupe."
Link: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1125698_infiniti-quietly-axes-q70-luxury-sedan
That an ancient car doesn't sell well should come as no surprise. In it's current form, it has been produced for 9 model years (2011 to present). And the current model is basically a heavy refresh of the 2006-2010 model, so its bones are really 19 years old.
They need to bring back the FX with the 3.0TT and relevant tech. The QX60 needs an update too but I get the sense that it's still "selling" very well (aka getting pumped to fleets)
Nissan in general needs a huge update
When did they stop making the G37/Q40?
2014 I think
What did the Q70 used to be called? I don't have a clue what it is.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 26, 2019, 03:23:39 PM
What did the Q70 used to be called? I don't have a clue what it is.
It was formerly the M-series.
But you bring up another good point as to why Infiniti is languishing. Nobody knows what the hell any of their vehicles are because the made everything a "Q-something".
Marketers get paid millions to make nomenclature more confusing.
Marketers get paid millions to make nomenclature less confusing.
It's a scam to keep bullshit artists employed and rich.
Quote from: MX793 on October 26, 2019, 03:36:56 PM
It was formerly the M-series.
But you bring up another good point as to why Infiniti is languishing. Nobody knows what the hell any of their vehicles are because the made everything a "Q-something".
Meh, no more confusing than BMW's endless suffixes or Mercedes' changing series and arbitrary numbering. Infiniti is languishing because its product is ancient and its brand isn't strong.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 26, 2019, 08:44:29 PM
Meh, no more confusing than BMW's endless suffixes or Mercedes' changing series and arbitrary numbering. Infiniti is languishing because its product is ancient and its brand isn't strong.
Right, the brand isn't strong enough for people to bother following the cryptic naming scheme.
I saw an Infiniti something the other day at the grocery store that really caught my eye.
However, I have no idea what Q# it was because none of it makes any fucking sense.
(but really, it was like...whatever the G37 coupe became, I think)
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 26, 2019, 09:05:17 PM
I saw an Infiniti something the other day at the grocery store that really caught my eye.
However, I have no idea what Q# it was because none of it makes any fucking sense.
(but really, it was like...whatever the G37 coupe became, I think)
Yeah I know what you mean
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 26, 2019, 09:05:17 PM
I saw an Infiniti something the other day at the grocery store that really caught my eye.
However, I have no idea what Q# it was because none of it makes any fucking sense.
(but really, it was like...whatever the G37 coupe became, I think)
The Q60 (their only coupe)
It is a stunner. Best looking coupe in the segment, especially in purple
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 27, 2019, 06:08:29 AM
The Q60 (their only coupe)
It is a stunner. Best looking coupe in the segment, especially in purple
Yeah, it really looks fantastic.
The Japanese luxury brands by and large can't compete - sure, they have hits every once in a while - Acura NSX and Legend, Lexus LS400, Infiniti G35, Nissan GT-R, etc., but they just can't sustain. To be fair, they're vastly smaller companies than the German brands. But really, there's absolutely no excuse for the IS350 having the same motor for 15 years, and Acura still rocking the J-series, which is even older. Jesus.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
The Japanese luxury brands by and large can't compete - sure, they have hits every once in a while - Acura NSX and Legend, Lexus LS400, Infiniti G35, Nissan GT-R, etc., but they just can't sustain. To be fair, they're vastly smaller companies than the German brands. But really, there's absolutely no excuse for the IS350 having the same motor for 15 years, and Acura still rocking the J-series, which is even older. Jesus.
I think part of the "problem" is that what plays well in the mainstream segment doesn't play in the premium and niche segments. People buying mainstreamers like Accords, Camries, Civics and Corollas want value and reliability. They don't care that the engine is from 12 years ago as long as it's reliable, efficient, and provides adequate acceleration. So we've seen a steady march of incremental improvement in those cars, adopting technologies only once it's mature. People buying luxury vehicles want the latest and greatest. That means you can't play it too safe. That the last vehicle to offer a cassette deck was from Lexus is very telling of how badly they are out of touch.
On the flip side, the Germans' willingness to adopt technologies and features that aren't quite fully baked results in abysmal resale and horrendous long-term reliability.
Quote from: MX793 on October 27, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
I think part of the "problem" is that what plays well in the mainstream segment doesn't play in the premium and niche segments. People buying mainstreamers like Accords, Camries, Civics and Corollas want value and reliability. They don't care that the engine is from 12 years ago as long as it's reliable, efficient, and provides adequate acceleration. So we've seen a steady march of incremental improvement in those cars, adopting technologies only once it's mature. People buying luxury vehicles want the latest and greatest. That means you can't play it too safe. That the last vehicle to offer a cassette deck was from Lexus is very telling of how badly they are out of touch.
On the flip side, the Germans' willingness to adopt technologies and features that aren't quite fully baked results in abysmal resale and horrendous long-term reliability.
+1
Quote from: MX793 on October 27, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
I think part of the "problem" is that what plays well in the mainstream segment doesn't play in the premium and niche segments. People buying mainstreamers like Accords, Camries, Civics and Corollas want value and reliability. They don't care that the engine is from 12 years ago as long as it's reliable, efficient, and provides adequate acceleration. So we've seen a steady march of incremental improvement in those cars, adopting technologies only once it's mature. People buying luxury vehicles want the latest and greatest. That means you can't play it too safe. That the last vehicle to offer a cassette deck was from Lexus is very telling of how badly they are out of touch.
On the flip side, the Germans' willingness to adopt technologies and features that aren't quite fully baked results in abysmal resale and horrendous long-term reliability.
There's no technology ze Germans adopt that isn't fully baked; i.e., there's no excuse other than customers accept it (so of course, why change?).
Luxury buyers are buying (er, leasing) the badge, and faux luxury like shiny black plastic in the interior. It's all a ginormous scam.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2019, 07:43:37 PM
There's no technology ze Germans adopt that isn't fully baked; i.e., there's no excuse other than customers accept it (so of course, why change?).
Luxury buyers are buying (er, leasing) the badge, and faux luxury like shiny black plastic in the interior. It's all a ginormous scam.
I guess that's why so many Mercs with complicated air suspension systems are plagued with problems. Or the HPFP in the DI Turbo BMWs were trouble-prone. Or their terrible infotainment systems (iDrive was maligned for like a decade).
Quote from: MX793 on October 27, 2019, 07:49:24 PM
I guess that's why so many Mercs with complicated air suspension systems are plagued with problems. Or the HPFP in the DI Turbo BMWs were trouble-prone. Or their terrible infotainment systems (iDrive was maligned for like a decade).
All that tech was baked by the time it found its way into a car. That ze Germans screw it up consistently is on them, not the tech.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
The Japanese luxury brands by and large can't compete - sure, they have hits every once in a while - Acura NSX and Legend, Lexus LS400, Infiniti G35, Nissan GT-R, etc., but they just can't sustain. To be fair, they're vastly smaller companies than the German brands. But really, there's absolutely no excuse for the IS350 having the same motor for 15 years, and Acura still rocking the J-series, which is even older. Jesus.
If it ain't broke, why fix it? :huh:
I'd rather have to get my timing belt changed every 60K miles than have an unreliable POS. (https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/bmw-n20-n26-engine-lawsuit-blames-timing-chains.shtml)
Plus weren't you the guy who exalted the ancient Japanese V6 superiority over the new German 2.0T? Why the flip flop? You actually made a decent point for once.
Infiniti is no longer in Europe I think and I wouldn't be surprised if they fold in the US within the next decade.
https://jalopnik.com/infiniti-is-getting-absolutely-creamed-1838822316
They had real brands model recognition several years ago. The G was a BMW 3 series at a cheaper price which looked cool. The age FX SUV looked like a Porsche coupe on steroids and sold well. The JX was a Lexus RX only with a useable 3rd row perfect for kids. Then they made the most asinine move and changed their naming scheme and they've slowly dying ever since. It's obviously more than just the Q/QX naming. Their infotainment sucks and they're no longer a great "value" in the luxury market. They're not cheap and they're warranty isn't that great either.
Kind of expected though knowing their parent company is Nissan.
Quote from: MX793 on October 27, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
I think part of the "problem" is that what plays well in the mainstream segment doesn't play in the premium and niche segments. People buying mainstreamers like Accords, Camries, Civics and Corollas want value and reliability. They don't care that the engine is from 12 years ago as long as it's reliable, efficient, and provides adequate acceleration. So we've seen a steady march of incremental improvement in those cars, adopting technologies only once it's mature. People buying luxury vehicles want the latest and greatest. That means you can't play it too safe. That the last vehicle to offer a cassette deck was from Lexus is very telling of how badly they are out of touch.
On the flip side, the Germans' willingness to adopt technologies and features that aren't quite fully baked results in abysmal resale and horrendous long-term reliability.
Which is interesting, because Japanese brands used to be early tech adopters...adaptive cruise, computer controlled active suspension, sat nav, HiD's, etc all saw early applications on Japanese cars (especially JDM cars...America got cars like the 3000GT but not the Soarer - the SC300/400 - which had a good deal of future tech options)
I am fanboying but I think Infiniti has an easier path forward than a lot of other luxury brands in trouble.
They have the dealer network. They have the platforms. They have some level of brand recognition. There's just a couple of things they need to do-
- Pull a 2007-2017 Camry move and just make big sheetmetal/interior changes on the same bones
- Update the infotainment
- Ditch the damn CVTs wherever possible
- *Bonus move* lean into electrification in a practical way (hybrids)
Even if they make the best product- and it could be argued that they did for some years- they will never get the brand respect they deserve. People would rather pay more for mediocre German cars than excellent Japanese ones. So they might as well phone it in, just in a more convincing and customer focused way. That's much easier to figure out and do than say whatever Jaguar or Mazda or Genesis need to do. No new platforms, no dealership expansions.... just the small updates they should have been making already
Quote from: Submariner on October 28, 2019, 08:57:42 AM
Which is interesting, because Japanese brands used to be early tech adopters...adaptive cruise, computer controlled active suspension, sat nav, HiD's, etc all saw early applications on Japanese cars (especially JDM cars...America got cars like the 3000GT but not the Soarer - the SC300/400 - which had a good deal of future tech options)
That was the glorious bubble era. That decade basically cost them their future :(
From the link:
"We announced in August that a new QX55 sport utility coupe will arrive next summer"
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 28, 2019, 08:59:52 AM
I am fanboying but I think Infiniti has an easier path forward than a lot of other luxury brands in trouble.
They have the dealer network. They have the platforms. They have some level of brand recognition. There's just a couple of things they need to do-
- Pull a 2007-2017 Camry move and just make big sheetmetal/interior changes on the same bones
- Update the infotainment
- Ditch the damn CVTs wherever possible
- *Bonus move* lean into electrification in a practical way (hybrids)
Even if they make the best product- and it could be argued that they did for some years- they will never get the brand respect they deserve. People would rather pay more for mediocre German cars than excellent Japanese ones. So they might as well phone it in, just in a more convincing and customer focused way. That's much easier to figure out and do than say whatever Jaguar or Mazda or Genesis need to do. No new platforms, no dealership expansions.... just the small updates they should have been making already
Nissan seems to be lacking resources to keep their cars/brands updated.
Quote from: Submariner on October 28, 2019, 09:04:44 AM
From the link:
"We announced in August that a new QX55 sport utility coupe will arrive next summer"
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Never buy the first year of a new model. I'll wait for the QQXX555Q55XVQQQQ5.55.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 28, 2019, 09:29:41 AM
Nissan seems to be lacking resources to keep their cars/brands updated.
Well, to put it mildly, they are facing some headwinds.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 28, 2019, 09:00:48 AM
That was the glorious bubble era. That decade basically cost them their future :(
The Japanese economic troubles of the mid to late 90s, which contributed to the demise of their halo cars, definitely shifted their business model to the conservative end of the spectrum.
Yes, the late 90s were a real dark period for the Japanese auto industry. Cost cutting was blatant.
Oddly, the Germans went through a similar low, I want to say due to some currency issues.
The problems with Infiniti and Nissan in general are not related to the late 90s though. Ghosn saved Nissan from bankruptcy in the late 1990s/early 2000s. The CVT transmission has caused them a lot of warranty/reliability related headache and that was first put in the early to mid 2000s. They've also had a ton of their sales to fleets which decreases profit.
The Maxima was made ugly beginning in 2004. The Pathfinder was neutered in 2013. The Xterra was a legit Jeep competitor with a good following so instead of investing money to keep the following going, they decided it wasn't worth the cost. They probably just couldn't afford to.
It's just hard to compete with the reliability of Toyota/Honda and value of Hyundai/Kia. GM and Ford have an inherent domestic fanboy factor that they can rely on.
I think Korean value is a bit of a red herring. They are priced lower new, but lose their value faster and are less reliable. Long term value always wins out over short term value in the end.
I think Nissan can find a sweet spot between the two... they have to be priced cheaper than Honda/Toyota just on principle, but they can play the showroom wow factor of the Koreans too.
Really though they just need to update their damn vehicles.
The Korean value in the US is both initial cost and better new car warranty. Long term you take a bite on resale but most Americans don't think long term.
Good cars don't need long warranties.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 28, 2019, 07:10:23 PM
Good cars don't need long warranties.
Hyundai/Kia warranties are non-transferable, so they reduce their risk exposure to some degree since many people get rid of their car after 3-4 years, especially lessees.
Quote from: veeman on October 28, 2019, 02:06:42 PM
The Korean value in the US is both initial cost and better new car warranty. Long term you take a bite on resale but most Americans don't think long term.
If your saving $10-20k up front, long term resale really doesn't matter much
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 28, 2019, 07:10:23 PM
Good cars don't need long warranties.
I don't think so. I don't think there's much of a correlation between quality of product and length/breadth of warranty. I think it's more a calculation between how many sales you can gain by offering a longer more comprehensive warranty vs how much money you'll lose because of warranty covered repairs as well as history of the brand. When Hyundai/Kia initially wanted to establish a foothold in the US, they heavily advertised the best warranty in the industry and consequently, because of that history, cannot easily reverse course. In Canada the warranty is less. VW recently upped their warranty and then very recently decreased their warranty a bit because it was costing them too much. Honda and Toyota don't have great warranties (and in general are reliable brands) but so do many other brands which are not considered that reliable.
Quote from: veeman on October 28, 2019, 08:12:32 PM
I don't think so. I don't think there's much of a correlation between quality of product and length/breadth of warranty. I think it's more a calculation between how many sales you can gain by offering a longer more comprehensive warranty vs how much money you'll lose because of warranty covered repairs as well as history of the brand. When Hyundai/Kia initially wanted to establish a foothold in the US, they heavily advertised the best warranty in the industry and consequently, because of that history, cannot easily reverse course. In Canada the warranty is less. VW recently upped their warranty and then very recently decreased their warranty a bit because it was costing them too much. Honda and Toyota don't have great warranties (and in general are reliable brands) but so do many other brands which are not considered that reliable.
Sometimes struggling brands increase their warranty to try to attract buyers. Chrysler increased their powertrain warranty from the industry standard 3/36 to 7/100 in the late 90s or early 2000s in response to flagging sales and a less than stellar reputation for reliability. Of course, if you ever tried to use it they'd find an excuse to deny the claim, as happened to my cousin when the transmission cooler in her Neon failed and pumped trans fluid into the radiator (and engine coolant into the transmission). Apparently the radiator/transmission cooler is not part of the "powertrain", according to them, and therefore not covered...
Quote from: veeman on October 28, 2019, 08:12:32 PM
I don't think so. I don't think there's much of a correlation between quality of product and length/breadth of warranty. I think it's more a calculation between how many sales you can gain by offering a longer more comprehensive warranty vs how much money you'll lose because of warranty covered repairs as well as history of the brand. When Hyundai/Kia initially wanted to establish a foothold in the US, they heavily advertised the best warranty in the industry and consequently, because of that history, cannot easily reverse course. In Canada the warranty is less. VW recently upped their warranty and then very recently decreased their warranty a bit because it was costing them too much. Honda and Toyota don't have great warranties (and in general are reliable brands) but so do many other brands which are not considered that reliable.
I mean this is kind of a long winded way of saying what I said lol. Long warranties are just marketing targeting the uninformed. Even if you have a long warranty, they don't cover you for all the time and hassle of dealing with an unreliable POS. And that's IF they even honor the warranty in the first place :huh:
I'd rather just go with a car that doesn't break in the first place.
The annoying GM commercial guy with the "real people" acting surprised when he proclaims GM is the most reliable brand etc (based on some obscure survey) is just marketing targeting the uninformed.
I think your argument would make sense if Hyundai/Kia were unreliable brands or if reliable brands seldom had non wear and tear mechanical, structural, or electrical issues within the first several years of ownership. The only company that could possibly get a pass on that i think is Toyota/Lexus.
Hondas/Acuras have had some reliability problems of late.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 29, 2019, 05:06:39 AM
I mean this is kind of a long winded way of saying what I said lol. Long warranties are just marketing targeting the uninformed. Even if you have a long warranty, they don't cover you for all the time and hassle of dealing with an unreliable POS. And that's IF they even honor the warranty in the first place :huh:
I'd rather just go with a car that doesn't break in the first place.
(https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/slide1_64.jpg)
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds
:devil: :devil: :devil:
FCA...rockin the bottom. :devil:
Oh Volvo :cry:
Too bad Porsche doesn't make a subcompact economy car.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 30, 2019, 05:44:16 PM
Too bad Porsche doesn't make a subcompact economy car.
Give them time.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2019, 06:12:26 AM
Give them time.
Won't happen. Now, a subcompact CUV based on the Polo, on the other hand...
A hatchback on stilts is still a car to me
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2019, 06:12:26 AM
Give them time.
I may own a Porsche some day!!!!! ? :dance:
Quote from: MX793 on October 31, 2019, 06:14:41 AM
Won't happen. Now, a subcompact CUV based on the Polo, on the other hand...
Oh ... :(
Quote from: AltinD on October 30, 2019, 04:38:14 PM
(https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/slide1_64.jpg)
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds
:devil: :devil: :devil:
VW, Audi, BMW, M-B and Chrysler above Honda?
Fake news * trillion.
I think the recent engine issues tanked Honda, since that engine is used in all of their high volume models.
Yea there are some complaints about the safety and infotainment systems too. I'd still roll the dice on a Honda over a VWAG product
Earth Nightmares