It's really more sad than funny, my story here.
When I bought the Trooper, the guy told me that he had adjusted the timing by ear because his timing light broke in the process. I checked the timing today, to find that it was at about 22 degrees BTDC, when it's supposed to be 10 degrees BTDC. I took off the air cleaner and two of the three vaccum hoses connected to it to get to the distributor. I loosened the distributor bolt a little so that I may move it. Long story short, Iit slipped waaay too far (engine was not running, as I was just making sure it was movable). I moved it back to where I thought it was.
I started the truck with a little gas pedal action. It almost died, then the idling rpms went up a couple thousand. I shot the light to discover that the timing was about a million degrees after TDC, so I moved (maybe a little too fast, but I thought I was going pretty slow) the distributor so the timing started going back to where it was supposed to be, but it stalled and didn't wanna restart. I moved the distributor back in the direction it came (that is, I moved the timing after TDC more) bit by bit. I got the truck running, but it was belching black smoke and needed a constant foot on the gas, so I shut it off after a few seconds.
The owner of the gray Nova in the background in my new truck thread knows his engines, and he was over, so I got his help to get the timing right. He says it's now set to 12 degrees BTDC (I was keeping the thing running, so I didn't see). It wasn't idling right before it stalled off (rarther, it stalled as soon as my foot was off the gas), and now it won't start. I reconnected the vaccum lines, hoping for a miracle, but no change. Nova dude had to go, so I left it. He'll come back tomorrow, but the more minds the better.
Notes: It may have been belching black smoke when I first started it after knocking the distributor off, or when the timing was set right, but it was dark, I was in the truck, and I couldn't see. After the distributor got knocked, it sounded like it was running kinda rough, and very fast, but it didn't stall until I moved the timing. It turns over fine, and I was giving it gas, but when I did, it stopped turning over as well. The intake was smoking after all that.
Any ideas or advice (not, "stop being an idiot Psilos!")?
The words of the evening are shit, fuck, and oi.
Word of advice: Stop buying and selling cars, it just never seems to work out for you.
Seriously. I think I have the worst car luck. Fucking shit...
Quote from: Psilos on September 26, 2006, 11:05:57 PM
Seriously. I think I have the worst car luck. Fucking shit...
At the risk of being Captain Obvious, have you checked online for a forum related to Chevy 2.8L engines and/or quirks with them? I find that in scenarios like you are in, the culprit is usually some mundane little detail that is way too easily overlooked. Other than that, I can't really offer much in the line of assistance. Good luck though.
Hehehe... I'm afraid the title of Capt. Obvious has long since been handed out.
I actually haven't done more research yet, but I've been assuming it is in fact some little detail. That's how my luck seems to run.
I posted pretty much the same thing in the Automotive Forums' Chevy S-10 section, as I think that gets more traffic than the Trooper section.
Did you reconnect all those vacuum lines before you actually started making adjustments?
Is it possible that the cap or rotor got damaged in the process? I'd pop the cap off and check to see if everything looks ok.
I suppose it's possible... I give it a shot.
Thanks!
Oh, and no, the vaccum lines were disconnected throughout the thing, until the very end. I couldn't get to the distributor with the air cleaner in the way, and I couldn't move the air cleaner with the short vaccum lines attached.
Quote from: Psilos on September 27, 2006, 04:20:26 PM
Oh, and no, the vaccum lines were disconnected throughout the thing, until the very end. I couldn't get to the distributor with the air cleaner in the way, and I couldn't move the air cleaner with the short vaccum lines attached.
I know when I pull the air cleaner off my Accord I have to plug at least 2-3 vacuum lines that were attached to it or it runs like a bag of shit.
Perhaps you had a self imposed vacuum leak that you were unaware of. I'm guessing that none of those lines were for vacuum advance of the distributor?
I have no idea... I didn't think of plugging the lines until tonight, but I have no golf tees, at it woulda made no difference.
Anyway... Contrary to popular belief, I am not the worlds biggest dummy (anymore). It runs! The PO put a new distributor in it, but he must have got it a cog or two off. The timing I was seeing was not actually the engine's timing. After taking off the cap and rotor and doing some spark tests stupidly, and fretting and thinking very hard, we ended up just putting the distributor back where it originally was (more or less) and starting it right up. She runs just fine, at that. I dunno if the timing is exactly right yet because it idles high (where it was before this incident), but we'll fix that later when he comes back.
*whew*
Quote from: Psilos on September 27, 2006, 08:34:05 PM
I have no idea... I didn't think of plugging the lines until tonight, but I have no golf tees, at it woulda made no difference.
Anyway... Contrary to popular belief, I am not the worlds biggest dummy (anymore). It runs! The PO put a new distributor in it, but he must have got it a cog or two off. The timing I was seeing was not actually the engine's timing. After taking off the cap and rotor and doing some spark tests stupidly, and fretting and thinking very hard, we ended up just putting the distributor back where it originally was (more or less) and starting it right up. She runs just fine, at that. I dunno if the timing is exactly right yet because it idles high (where it was before this incident), but we'll fix that later when he comes back.
*whew*
Good to hear!
Nothing like fixing what wasn't broken.. LOL
No kidding!
I was going to say, I've turned the distributors all the way in both directions on three of the cars I've had and they still ran ok. My redneck truck is still giving me trouble though. Maybe the distributor is off like yours was, but if it's the carb then I'm taking it to my mechanic. IH8CARBS :banghead:
Quote from: NACar on September 28, 2006, 03:34:35 AM
..., but if it's the carb then I'm taking it to my mechanic. IH8CARBS :banghead:
You find me a mechanic that fully understands the carb system on my Accord, I'll give you a cookie.
Its not really all THAT complicated if you have the right service manual...
Who am I kidding, its a f#%king nightmare, but I've managed to keep mine running somewhat properly....
Carbs are very much evil.
So the guy that's been helping me might not be able to tonight. I wanna get that timing set ASAP, so I can drive it this weekend. I'm not really sure what to listen for, though. Before I started screwing with it, the idle was about 1500 rpm. Yesterday after I got it running, I moved the timing a little in either direction, and the idle speed changed. Is that a reliable way to set timing? THe Haynes manual I have doen't have a way to set the idle speed independantly... I'd like to have the engine idling at 900 or so rpm, as that's more like where it's supposed to be. When I set the timing so the idle speed was about 900 rpm, though, the engine sounded like crap. Of course, that was on a cold engine, so that could be it.
Thanks as usual!
Quote from: Psilos on September 28, 2006, 01:12:19 PM
Carbs are very much evil.
So the guy that's been helping me might not be able to tonight. I wanna get that timing set ASAP, so I can drive it this weekend. I'm not really sure what to listen for, though. Before I started screwing with it, the idle was about 1500 rpm. Yesterday after I got it running, I moved the timing a little in either direction, and the idle speed changed. Is that a reliable way to set timing? THe Haynes manual I have doen't have a way to set the idle speed independantly... I'd like to have the engine idling at 900 or so rpm, as that's more like where it's supposed to be. When I set the timing so the idle speed was about 900 rpm, though, the engine sounded like crap. Of course, that was on a cold engine, so that could be it.
Thanks as usual!
Definitely let it warm up first and then do your adjustments.
The choke alone could raise it 2000rpm or more if its on. Assuming its an auto.
Fun! :lol:
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, unless I had a timing light and even then I may still get lost. Not much experience with that myself either.
It's not a manual choke, if that's what you mean...
R-inge,
Hehe, at this point, a timing light will do more harm than good, since the distribotor is off center.
You should have kept the Miata. :lol:
Yeah, but then I couldn't have moved all my shit six hours away twice...
Sure you could have, it would've just taken a few trips.
Like, six or seven...
Could have gotten one of these:
(http://www.paul-davis.com/vehicles/miata/trailer.jpg)
:)
Naw, Miatas need no trailers...
Quote from: Psilos on September 28, 2006, 05:40:49 PM
It's not a manual choke, if that's what you mean...
R-inge,
Hehe, at this point, a timing light will do more harm than good, since the distribotor is off center.
Many cars have automatic chokes- you have to wait until the car completely warms up before they start idling at a 'regular' speed. I had a Honda that idled really really high until it was warmed up. And if you just let it sit and warm up it would keep high idle all day, until you hit the gas pedal a little, then it would come down.
See if you can get an owner's manual for the truck- there's always good info there..
Thats what my Accord does. Idles at about 1800rpm cold, then will rise to 2500rpm if you don't tap the gas. There are about 3 steps from full high to normal idle.
I've had trouble where the choke would not open at all until it was about fully warmed up. Car ran great for the instant that it started and then ran like a bag of shit spewing black smoke for the next 3-5min.
I could start a whole 'nother thread about the fun I've had with that thing.
My old Novarolla did that...
Quote from: Psilos on September 28, 2006, 01:12:19 PM
Carbs are very much evil.
I agree. I only take about 60-80 grams a day.
Har Har.
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on September 28, 2006, 09:02:20 PM
Could have gotten one of these:
(http://www.paul-davis.com/vehicles/miata/trailer.jpg)
:)
They don't need trailers?
Sure they do. How do you get your autocross tires to the track?
On the car, duh. Just makes it more fun on the way there. ;)
Oh, yeah, fuck it. I'm just gonna pay someone to fix the damned timing. I set it by the light, but now the stumbling hesitation is worse (whenever I accelerate hard). So the distrib is pretty definitely off. While I think I can get it set closer to where it should be, I want to to be exactly where it should be. Damn it all. All, I say!
Drugs make everyone more creative.
Yeah, last time I did something mechanical while under the influence of more creativity, I stripped the crank puller and the crank, while still not getting it off the bike.
I was talking mostly about the trailer. But being as drunk as I am, I didn't bother to clarify, since it made sense to me.
Heh...
I was reading my Haynes manual yesterday... Is it even possible to put a distributor in wrong? If it is, and mine is in wrong, how would I fix it? The manual says the first cylinder has to be at TDC to install a distributor, but the only way it gives to find TDC is with the distributor, which would be giving me a wrong reading.
Also, when fucking around with the timing, the light wasn't firing consistently. The engine was stumbling or anything, so I figure it's the insulation on the wires blocking the inductive pick-up. Make sense?
I'd take it to a mechanic and just get it over with, but I'm a touch po' for the next couple months.
Start it up at night and look for arcing in the dark. You should probably replace the plug wires and the plugs while your at it. Have you cleaned up the contact points on the cap and rotor? If the light isn't firing consistently than I would guess that neither is #1 cyl.
If it were me I'd replace the cap and rotor first since they are relatively cheap and then continue your quest.
As for the distributors position. I think that you've made a pretty safe assumption that its more or less where it belongs. If it wasn't you'd probably be experiencing a lot more trouble than you are.
I did replace the cap, rotor, plugs, and wires before I even started with the timing.
What about the ignition coil? That would cause missing, but would it also cause hesitation/stumbling under load? When I set the timing to 10 BTDC by the light, the hesitation got much worse, which I thought was because the timing and distributor were off.
Quote from: Psilos on October 10, 2006, 11:14:02 PM
I did replace the cap, rotor, plugs, and wires before I even started with the timing.
What about the ignition coil? That would cause missing, but would it also cause hesitation/stumbling under load? When I set the timing to 10 BTDC by the light, the hesitation got much worse, which I thought was because the timing and distributor were off.
The coil was going to be my next suggestion.
Do you know what the resistance is supposed to be through it?
While you are there you can inspect the wiring to it as well.
Heh, I don't have an ohmeter...
Quote from: Psilos on October 11, 2006, 07:01:00 PM
Heh, I don't have an ohmeter...
I'm sorry, but I actually lol'd when I read that.
Any chances of picking up another coil from a wreckers?
Hehehe.
I can check. It's a 2.8L Chevy engine, so the part should be common enough. New it's only $65 shipped...
Whadya think? I could buy the coil from the local Schucks or whatever, and if it doesn't fix it, d'you think they'd accept the return? Hmm, that's prolly a good idea.
Heh, the cheapie at Schucks is $35... We'll see by Monday, I hope.
Yeah, so there's no compression in the fifth cylinder.
Quote from: Psilos on October 17, 2006, 12:38:46 PM
Yeah, so there's no compression in the fifth cylinder.
ouch! :banghead:
Quote from: Psilos on October 17, 2006, 12:38:46 PM
Yeah, so there's no compression in the fifth cylinder.
Ugh. If that aint a kick in the balls. I'd cry, but only for a little bit, then I'd smash it with a sledge hammer.
Quote from: Psilos on October 17, 2006, 12:38:46 PM
Yeah, so there's no compression in the fifth cylinder.
Ouch, dude you have the absolute worst luck with cars.
Sorry to hear that
Wow, dude, nothing to say but I'm sorry.
Do you want me to find a car for you? So far, all the cheap-o cars I buy or advise friends to buy are all running strong (knocks on wood...)
I'd set fire to it, and every other car I've owned since the first Trooper, but then I'd be commiting felonies and not getting the little it's worth. Grrrrrr...
get a subaru!
Maybe... I don't think I'm gonna have the money for a car for a year or few. Besides, I really like Troopers (that run).
Were you able to determine why its not holding any compression?
That engine has to be a dime a dozen, is a swap a potential idea?
I suggest you fix it, and as soon as it's working perfectly, you sell it and get something else.
Har.
The mechanic (I gave up after I got stranded on a test drive) says it's a burned valve. The lowest quote I found to fix that is $1300. Then there's the ignition module, which is what the mechanic says was the cause of the hesitation, etc. A new engine would be more expensive. Besides, if I'm going to go to the trouble of putting another engine in there, it's gotta be an Isuzu deisel. My only hope is a merciful grandparent...
Quote from: Psilos on October 18, 2006, 08:53:37 PM
Har.
The mechanic (I gave up after I got stranded on a test drive) says it's a burned valve. The lowest quote I found to fix that is $1300. Then there's the ignition module, which is what the mechanic says was the cause of the hesitation, etc. A new engine would be more expensive. Besides, if I'm going to go to the trouble of putting another engine in there, it's gotta be an Isuzu deisel. My only hope is a merciful grandparent...
What are you getting quotes for? ie What work?
I'm thinking you could get a decent pair of heads off a wrecker engine, and just make it a swap job.
Hmm, that's a thought. Any idea on a cost for that? I was getting quotes on replacing the valve...
It seems like a bit of a risk to put that much money into a truck worth, in perfect condition, no more than a couple grand. The block still has the same miles and the same wear as the head. Besides, I don't think I could afford more than about $400 in parts and labor, and I'm not into the idea of potentially botching a job that big by doing it myself.
Quote from: Psilos on October 19, 2006, 01:29:44 AM
Hmm, that's a thought. Any idea on a cost for that? I was getting quotes on replacing the valve...
It seems like a bit of a risk to put that much money into a truck worth, in perfect condition, no more than a couple grand. The block still has the same miles and the same wear as the head. Besides, I don't think I could afford more than about $400 in parts and labor, and I'm not into the idea of potentially botching a job that big by doing it myself.
I don't know about the prices, but again I can't imagine they would be that much considering how many of those engine there were/are.
Heck, maybe you can find a place that sells rebuilt heads ready to go.
Perhaps I'm a little too eager to replace both heads at the same time. Maybe someone else could pipe in on the possibility of just replacing the bad one.
I'm all for fixing parts, but in this case I think your most expensive route is going to be having that head pulled and essentially rebuilt. At this point you still don't know why that valve got fried. There are a couple of unknowns($$$) until you get the head off.
Well, I can't imagine this whole thing could be fixed for less than $700 or so, and that's even too much money.
Quote from: Psilos on October 19, 2006, 05:06:02 PM
Well, I can't imagine this whole thing could be fixed for less than $700 or so, and that's even too much money.
Unless you (or a friend) can do the work without paying a garage just parts should be less than that...
Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. We'll see after this weekend what the fate of the Trooper shall be.
Oh man that sucks.
Just like VTEC said, you really dont know how bad the damage is until the heads come off...
Hrm, yeah.
It looks like the family is gonna help out, but not for a few months. I dunno if I wanna fix this engine, buy a new engine, or buy another Trooper. I'll try to get both heads machined, and all the valves replaced, if this engine is good enough. I really don't wanna buy *another* Trooper, and an engine ain't cheap. Though it won't be the best option in terms of money, I might be able to get a diesel engine in there. I'm thinking I'll have the mechanic start with the valve thing, but also give it all a good looking over and kinda evaluate what is worth doing.
The mechanic says that they don't make something or other that might be needed for the valve replacement anymore. That means that I could pay them to take it apart and discover it needs something they can't get. I'd have a broken engine in pieces, and a huge labor bill to boot.
I'm going to put in a new ignition module, which will get it running, and sell it for as much as I can get. I guess I'll put that towards a Trooper with the really good four-cylinder that I can have looked at by a mechanic before I buy.
find some unsuspecting fellow and you can get more than you paid for it.
Yeah, probably. Too bad I'm honest. x_x
I'll start by asking $1000, and tell people about the problem, and take whatever decent offer I get.
Bummer.
Did you ditch the Volvo??
Long ago.
Wanna buy an old minivan? :lol:
I WANT to get something new(er), probably a wagon. (Volvo and subie seem most likely, I want a manual and don't see any others that would be affordable/halfway dependable.)
Lemme think about that.
OK, no. :lol:
Volvos kick ass, but so do subus. You can sleep in the back of a 240 if yer under 6'3" or so.
Quote from: Psilos on October 29, 2006, 11:17:23 AM
Lemme think about that.
OK, no. :lol:
Volvos kick ass, but so do subus. You can sleep in the back of a 240 if yer under 6'3" or so.
You had to think THAT LONG about it?? I'm disappointed. :devil:
Yeah, if I have to pick it will probably come down to that individual vehicle's condition.
On the other hand, I'm headed to Kuwait for a year in May, which brings in an extra $300+/month, so maybe I'll just wait until I get back to go shopping.. :P