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Auto Talk => Luxury Talk => Topic started by: whoaa killaa on November 27, 2006, 10:00:31 AM

Title: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: whoaa killaa on November 27, 2006, 10:00:31 AM
My mom is looking for a new car to replace her passat (which will become mine? :lol: ) and she is looking to get a rwd coupe.? She really likes the 350z and g35 coupe, but she is unsure about using the car in the winter.? She would not be getting the car until the spring, but we live in Massachusetts and it will be her only car.? In particular storms she could drive my fathers f150, but for 1-6inches of snow she would most likely be using the coupe.? Is it really a big deal to drive a car like this in the snow?? And since she is waiting until the spring she is going to look at the Audi TT with quattro, would that be a better choice?? I have never driven a car like this is the snow so I am not sure about it all.? Thank you for your help.? She is not a terrible driver if that helps (she was the one who taught me to drive stick after all).
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Colonel Cadillac on November 27, 2006, 10:08:36 AM
If you live in Mass, I would argue that it might be pretty tough to have a RWD coupe in the winters. I live in Connecticut, so I know what your winters look like (yours are even more snow-laden than ours). I would consider the TT.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: S204STi on November 27, 2006, 10:15:31 AM
Ditto the TT quattro.  Unless you could get a G35x Coupe, which IIRC is not an option, you would have a nightmare on your hands.  A salesman at the Nissan dealer I used to work for in New Hampshire parked his 350Z for the winter and drove his Stanza once the snow flew.  Those summer compound tires that stick so well in warm weather are a liability in the cold snow.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 27, 2006, 10:21:40 AM
I've had a RWD E320 in some pretty bad Philadelphia area winters, and I was fine.  The G35 and 350Z have a lot more power though.

A user here has a 350Z, and he's prepping it for winter.  Good tires and fine control of your throttle should keep you pretty safe.

Off topic, what year/engine/trans/color is the Passat?  I have the one in my sig, a 1.8T paired, unfortunately, with the automatic. 

Welcome to the forums.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: The Pirate on November 27, 2006, 10:29:39 AM
Good snow tires, not the M+S rated variety, but actual soft tires with big gummy tread blocks will make a huge difference on the car.? I have a video of my car (a horrible nasty weather car, one of the worst of driven) blasting through a snowy field with Bridgestone Blizzaks on.?

The downside is you don't want to drive the tires year round (awesome winter traction translates into sloppy handling and a noisy ride in the dry).? Also, you can realistically expect 15,000 miles out of the tires, so they will probably be good for up to 3 winters.

But the difference is amazing, and not just accelerating; braking, turning, and general all around stability are dramatically better.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: JYODER240 on November 27, 2006, 10:34:52 AM
I'll be able to get back to you on this soon. I'm getting Dunlop Winter Sport M3's put on my 350Z tonight so as soon as the snow starts to fly, which should be any day now in NE Ohio, i'll let you know.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 27, 2006, 10:51:50 AM
Blizzaks or the like and using your brain are all you need with modern RWD cars in the snow.

Wonder how so many of us got through life with RWD cars and no ABS or traction control for decades... ;)
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on November 27, 2006, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: whoaa killaa on November 27, 2006, 10:00:31 AM
My mom is looking for a new car to replace her passat (which will become mine  :lol: ) and she is looking to get a rwd coupe.  She really likes the 350z and g35 coupe, but she is unsure about using the car in the winter.  She would not be getting the car until the spring, but we live in Massachusetts and it will be her only car.  In particular storms she could drive my fathers f150, but for 1-6inches of snow she would most likely be using the coupe.  Is it really a big deal to drive a car like this in the snow?  And since she is waiting until the spring she is going to look at the Audi TT with quattro, would that be a better choice?  I have never driven a car like this is the snow so I am not sure about it all.  Thank you for your help.  She is not a terrible driver if that helps (she was the one who taught me to drive stick after all).

Hey, welcome to CarSPIN.  Nice to have another Masshole here. :ohyeah:  Maybe a coupe isn't suce a good idea.  If she likes the G35 why not look at a G35X which is AWD.  However, if she can afford a TT then that would be a good year round car.  What about this Volvo C70?

(http://www.volvocars.us/NR/rdonlyres/02C8B369-4692-47F5-BAC2-D804A25DA281/35696/C70_EXT_900x373_12.jpg)

The retractable hardtop can't hurt. :praise:

and the BMW 328xi AWD (I'm loving these)

(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/5C231091-3C5B-4999-8A3F-DA7222F10EC6/0/0738_02.jpg)





Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on November 27, 2006, 11:20:31 AM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 27, 2006, 10:51:50 AM
Blizzaks or the like and using your brain are all you need with modern RWD cars in the snow.

Wonder how so many of us got through life with RWD cars and no ABS or traction control for decades... ;)

Good point.  We cops tend to get where we're going too.  Though not easily sometimes.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SaltyDog on November 27, 2006, 12:23:23 PM
Adding weight in the trunk will help traction.  You could add sand bags or something.  You could also get snow tires if that's not enough help.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: S204STi on November 27, 2006, 12:42:13 PM
Just make sure you get a full set of snows.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SJ_GTI on November 27, 2006, 01:17:22 PM
350Z comes with a limited slip, right? It should be "okay" depending on where you live.

I have some family in Mass., and where they live I would prefer AWD myself. It very hilly and has lots of small curvy roads with steep inclines. Its beautiful and fun in nice weather, but I wouldn't want to drive a sports car on snowy and icy roads there.

If your mom is like me I think the upcoming Audi TT quattro will be a great compromise. The 328xi that Catman mentioned is also a good idea.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: whoaa killaa on November 27, 2006, 01:31:11 PM
Thanks for all your help.  Realistically my mom will not have an extra set of tires lying around, so would all-seasons be any good?  She has her heart set on a coupe because everyone is off at college and she wants a fun car.  The 328xi is a good idea though and I will have her take a look at that.  AWD is the best choice for her I think so the TT and BMW seem to be the best fit.

As for the passat it is the 1.8t fwd 2001 (New passat though with the crome trim etc.) with 5 speed and baise with black interior.  I drive it whenever I can, I love it.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SJ_GTI on November 27, 2006, 02:02:17 PM
If she isn't going to have dedicated snow tires, definitely get all seasons. And try to get all-seasons that are designed for cold weather! Definitely avoid "performance" all-seasons. She would probably be okay with the factory tires from BMW/Audi, assuming they are all-seasons.

I will say though, that when I lived in montreal I used snow tires even though I had an AWD A4. They do make a noticable difference in traction.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: MX793 on November 27, 2006, 02:09:05 PM
I managed to get around in a RWD 240SX for 5 years in central NY winters (Syracuse, NY, where I went to college, is the 4th snowiest metropolitan area in the lower 48 States).  Wasn't necessarily easy, but doable.  I didn't even have snow tires, merely a set of all-seasons and a couple of sand bags in the trunk.  Snow tires would certainly make for easier going.  I personally would consider another RWD car as a year-round driver, but I'm not exactly the typical driver.  FWD and AWD have a definate traction advantage in the winter and if all weather traction is really a concern, a Quattro Audi TT would probably be a better choice.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: 850CSi on November 27, 2006, 02:18:02 PM
Like a lot of other guys are saying, a careful right foot along with the right tires and you'll be fine. Trouble with RWD in the winter is overrated IMO; people make it seem like it's some impossible scary wall to climb but it's not like these cars were engineered to just drive on dry pavement. That said, there's no doubt that FWD and AWD are more manageable.

My car's RWD, we get a fair amount of Snow in Suburban Chicago and I survived last winter without any problem. I wish I could get two different sets of tires but all-seasons work pretty well if you don't want to go that route.

I personally don't believe in AWD BMWs, if she ends up really wanting AWD, I'd go for the TT.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SVT_Power on November 27, 2006, 02:52:02 PM
Quote from: Catman on November 27, 2006, 11:19:29 AM
and the BMW 328xi AWD (I'm loving these)

(http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/5C231091-3C5B-4999-8A3F-DA7222F10EC6/0/0738_02.jpg)


You can get AWD on the coupes now?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on November 27, 2006, 02:53:54 PM
Quote from: whoaa killaa on November 27, 2006, 01:31:11 PM
Thanks for all your help.  Realistically my mom will not have an extra set of tires lying around, so would all-seasons be any good?  She has her heart set on a coupe because everyone is off at college and she wants a fun car.  The 328xi is a good idea though and I will have her take a look at that.  AWD is the best choice for her I think so the TT and BMW seem to be the best fit.

As for the passat it is the 1.8t fwd 2001 (New passat though with the crome trim etc.) with 5 speed and baise with black interior.  I drive it whenever I can, I love it.

I have a 4WD Sequoia and have snow tires for the Winter.  All-season tires are a huge compromise.  For a RWD coupe I'd say snow tires are required.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on November 27, 2006, 02:55:50 PM
Quote from: M_power on November 27, 2006, 02:52:02 PM
You can get AWD on the coupes now?

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/328xicoupe/ :ohyeah:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SVT_Power on November 27, 2006, 03:00:00 PM
Wow how did I not hear about this? 328Xi is the only AWD coupe?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ro51092 on November 27, 2006, 03:26:51 PM
RWD isn't as much a pain as many make it out to be. Some snow tires should do fine. But if you do want AWD, which is understandable, I would also go for the BMW 328xi.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ifcar on November 27, 2006, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: M_power on November 27, 2006, 03:00:00 PM
Wow how did I not hear about this? 328Xi is the only AWD coupe?

Of course not. This is what they said:

"Introducing the 328xi Coupe, the only coupe in its class to offer xDrive all-wheel drive."

This is what that means:

"None of the 328xi's competitors offer BMW's all-wheel-drive system."

The Audi TT is the only coupe in its class  to offer Quattro all-wheel drive, but both cars have it.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SJ_GTI on November 27, 2006, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: ifcar on November 27, 2006, 03:40:53 PM
Of course not. This is what they said:

"Introducing the 328xi Coupe, the only coupe in its class to offer xDrive all-wheel drive."

This is what that means:

"None of the 328xi's competitors offer BMW's all-wheel-drive system."

The Audi TT is the only coupe in its class? to offer Quattro all-wheel drive, but both cars have it.

I'm not sure I would call the TT a 3-series competitor?

I think the 3-series competition is the CLK-class, G35, and...from Audi I guess the upcoming A5.

The TT is more of a Z4/Boxtser/SLK competitor.

I think those are logical and reasonable classes, and in those cases the 3-series and TT are the only cars in their repsective classes with any type of AWD.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 27, 2006, 04:16:12 PM
The Passat's a kickass car.  I love the B5.

Has she thought about an Eos?  The 2.0T comes with a stick, though I believe the 3.6 V6 is automatic only. 
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Submariner on November 27, 2006, 04:21:12 PM
Quote from: Raza on November 27, 2006, 10:21:40 AM
I've had a RWD E320 in some pretty bad Philadelphia area winters, and I was fine. The G35 and 350Z have a lot more power though.

A user here has a 350Z, and he's prepping it for winter. Good tires and fine control of your throttle should keep you pretty safe.

Off topic, what year/engine/trans/color is the Passat? I have the one in my sig, a 1.8T paired, unfortunately, with the automatic.

Welcome to the forums.

Grandma.  :rolleyes:

Back on topic...I am a Mass. boy.  I'm in the western part of the state, but frequent Boston as well as Vermont and south Ct.  I'm driving a RWD sedan and there have been times where i've gotten stuck and needed a friend to tow me out.  Luckily, my parents picked up a 4x4 and are willing to let me take it out whenever.  :praise:

You might be able to get away with the coupe (if you're in Boston, then I wold give you definate thumbs up.  But in more rural areas...I would go with something with AWD.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 27, 2006, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Submariner on November 27, 2006, 04:21:12 PM
Grandma.  :rolleyes:

Back on topic...I am a Mass. boy.  I'm in the western part of the state, but frequent Boston as well as Vermont and south Ct.  I'm driving a RWD sedan and there have been times where i've gotten stuck and needed a friend to tow me out.  Luckily, my parents picked up a 4x4 and are willing to let me take it out whenever.  :praise:

You might be able to get away with the coupe (if you're in Boston, then I wold give you definate thumbs up.  But in more rural areas...I would go with something with AWD.

You're the one looking for Lexus SC and a Buick Lesabre.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: gasoline on November 27, 2006, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on November 27, 2006, 10:08:36 AM
If you live in Mass, I would argue that it might be pretty tough to have a RWD coupe in the winters. I live in Connecticut, so I know what your winters look like (yours are even more snow-laden than ours). I would consider the TT.
A friend of mine had an IS300 in the winter in Maine (college).
It was a tricky proposition from what I could see, but I am not authoritative.
It was his first car, and he tried not to drive too often.

Keep in mind that in the Northeast, it doesn't snow every single day (but you know this...) and snow rarely ever remains on the roads for very long--even if it stays elsewhere.

People with FWD rarely ever drive in bad snow themselves.
I'd say you need to:
Drive carefully and keep a sandbag in the trunk.
It's doable if you shovel your (non-steep) driveway and drive in "six inches" of snow.
Mind you, if you live in the New England I live in, the snowplow is out the minute snow begins to fall, and works all night long.

And don't forget winter tires.
This "all-season" thingamajig doesn't work all that well.
Between that and traction control, you'll be fine for most of the winter (especially if she drives an F-150 on bad, bad days).
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Submariner on November 27, 2006, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: Raza on November 27, 2006, 04:34:32 PM
You're the one looking for Lexus SC and a Buick Lesabre.

It's Lincoln Town Car and Cadillac Fleetwood you idiot.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: S204STi on November 27, 2006, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 27, 2006, 02:02:17 PM
If she isn't going to have dedicated snow tires, definitely get all seasons. And try to get all-seasons that are designed for cold weather! Definitely avoid "performance" all-seasons. She would probably be okay with the factory tires from BMW/Audi, assuming they are all-seasons.

I will say though, that when I lived in montreal I used snow tires even though I had an AWD A4. They do make a noticable difference in traction.

C/D did an article comparing Goodyear Eagle RS-As (performance all-season) with the Goodyear high-performance snows and Eagle F1 high-performance summers, ad the Eagle RS-As compared very favorably in the snow to the dedicated snow tires, IIRC, but outperformed the snows considerably and nearly matched the summers in wet traction.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on November 27, 2006, 07:28:23 PM
Quote from: R-inge on November 27, 2006, 07:16:17 PM
C/D did an article comparing Goodyear Eagle RS-As (performance all-season) with the Goodyear high-performance snows and Eagle F1 high-performance summers, ad the Eagle RS-As compared very favorably in the snow to the dedicated snow tires, IIRC, but outperformed the snows considerably and nearly matched the summers in wet traction.

The Goodyear snows they put on the police cars are horrible.  Ultragrips or something.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: S204STi on November 27, 2006, 07:48:37 PM
Quote from: Catman on November 27, 2006, 07:28:23 PM
The Goodyear snows they put on the police cars are horrible.  Ultragrips or something.


lol, so much for C/D's report then...hacks. :devil:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SVT_Power on November 27, 2006, 08:48:49 PM
Quote from: ifcar on November 27, 2006, 03:40:53 PM
Of course not. This is what they said:

"Introducing the 328xi Coupe, the only coupe in its class to offer xDrive all-wheel drive."

This is what that means:

"None of the 328xi's competitors offer BMW's all-wheel-drive system."

The Audi TT is the only coupe in its class  to offer Quattro all-wheel drive, but both cars have it.

I meant from the 3 series lineup
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: saxonyron on November 27, 2006, 10:10:31 PM
I almost bought a G35 sedan, but the day after my test drive, it snowed and I was reminded why I liked my quattro.  Sure, you can get around in RWD, but no matter what anyone says, you can get around better with AWD.  I need to drive even when it's snowing, thanks to my business, so "next best" wasn't good enough.  The G35 with 300 hp, even tamed with traction control, would be a lively beast to take out in the snow.  Even the Infiniti salesman had to admit the G35x would be a better choice, but didn't come with a manual tranny, so that killed my deal.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 28, 2006, 05:47:30 AM
Quote from: saxonyron on November 27, 2006, 10:10:31 PM
Sure, you can get around in RWD, but no matter what anyone says, you can get around better with AWD.

Well, that's certainly true.  You should have gotten a WRX!
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 28, 2006, 07:21:53 AM
Yeah, you can get aroud BETTER with AWD, but it's far from necessary.

(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/jag_snow.jpg)

I have to drive every day, too, and snow didn't negatively affect me driving this car, other than making it filthy. And yeah, the Rangie will be better, but it's more for towing things than being able to get around in snow (and for getting people out of snowbanks in the winter...)
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: omicron on November 28, 2006, 07:38:56 AM
Your Jag looks a bit chilly.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 28, 2006, 08:22:16 AM
Quote from: omicron on November 28, 2006, 07:38:56 AM
Your Jag looks a bit chilly.

it was happier there than it had been a few hours earlier:

(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2433319c.jpg)

(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2433319d.jpg)

;)
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: omicron on November 28, 2006, 08:25:19 AM
I think I need to hug it overnight to keep it warm.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: heelntoe on November 28, 2006, 08:39:54 AM
is that an ice cream truck?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Nebtek2002 on November 28, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
In my opinion, the biggest winter driving improvement made in the last 40 years was the radial tire. A mediocre all-season radial made today has awesome grip in the snow compared with the very best bias-ply snow tires of the past.

My RWD Ranger does just fine on snow when equipped with an all-terrain type tire. The all-season tires it came with gripped well the first winter and deteriorated from there.

Get good rubber, don't drive like an asshole, and you should do fine regardless of which or how many wheels you have driving the vehicle.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 28, 2006, 09:11:57 AM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 28, 2006, 07:21:53 AM
Yeah, you can get aroud BETTER with AWD, but it's far from necessary.

That's also certainly true.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SVT666 on November 28, 2006, 11:13:24 AM
Snow tires and she'll be fine.

Why does everyone think that RWD + Snow = Worst case scenario?  The worst car I ever had for winter was a 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which is FWD.  Besides my truck the best winter car I have owned was my 1996 Mustang GT.  Winter tires (Hankook W401 are the best I have ever had...yes even better then the Blizzaks I had on the same car) are a must.  It was lowered 1.5", had no traction control, stability control, ABS, or any other electronic nanny, and I got around just fine.  In fact better then the FWD cars with all-season tires were.  FWD especially sucks when going around icy corners and you step on the gas, because the car just starts plowing straight ahead and stops turning, whereas a RWD car will kick the rear end out a bit and get around the corner better. 
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: 93JC on November 28, 2006, 11:26:17 AM
Quote from: Nebtek2002 on November 28, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
don't drive like an asshole,

That's asking a LOT from many drivers out there... :lol:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: The Pirate on November 28, 2006, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 28, 2006, 11:13:24 AM
Snow tires and she'll be fine.

Why does everyone think that RWD + Snow = Worst case scenario? The worst car I ever had for winter was a 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which is FWD. Besides my truck the best winter car I have owned was my 1996 Mustang GT. Winter tires (Hankook W401 are the best I have ever had...yes even better then the Blizzaks I had on the same car) are a must. It was lowered 1.5", had no traction control, stability control, ABS, or any other electronic nanny, and I got around just fine. In fact better then the FWD cars with all-season tires were. FWD especially sucks when going around icy corners and you step on the gas, because the car just starts plowing straight ahead and stops turning, whereas a RWD car will kick the rear end out a bit and get around the corner better.


Yep, my FWD Honda positively sucks in the snow.  I'd rather have my old Ford Ranger 2WD (it was 4WD, but Ford's damn electrically actuated transfer case just blows) than a lightweight FWD car.  My 1988 Bonneville was a great winter car, it was so heavy that it just went wherever you pointed it.


Honda Civics without snow tires are just worthless POS's in the snow though.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: 850CSi on November 28, 2006, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 28, 2006, 07:21:53 AM
I have to drive every day, too, and snow didn't negatively affect me driving this car, other than making it filthy. And yeah, the Rangie will be better, but it's more for towing things than being able to get around in snow (and for getting people out of snowbanks in the winter...)

Beautiful car, Chris. We have one around here somewhere in immaculate condition.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 28, 2006, 12:31:16 PM
You used to have an XJ6 coupe, right?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2006, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 28, 2006, 11:13:24 AM
Snow tires and she'll be fine.

Why does everyone think that RWD + Snow = Worst case scenario?? The worst car I ever had for winter was a 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which is FWD.? Besides my truck the best winter car I have owned was my 1996 Mustang GT.? Winter tires (Hankook W401 are the best I have ever had...yes even better then the Blizzaks I had on the same car) are a must.? It was lowered 1.5", had no traction control, stability control, ABS, or any other electronic nanny, and I got around just fine.? In fact better then the FWD cars with all-season tires were.? FWD especially sucks when going around icy corners and you step on the gas, because the car just starts plowing straight ahead and stops turning, whereas a RWD car will kick the rear end out a bit and get around the corner better.?

And again, no one is saying RWD isn't doable, simply that AWD is much better suited for foul weather driving.

When I had my Z3 I drove it year-round with summer tires, and never got stuck and never got into an accident. But...I had to be a lot more careful where I went even here in NJ where we don't get that much snow. Its also flat as a board here (NJ is basically a big sand bar after all  :lol: ).

In the context of this thread I think AWD is a reasonable consideration, especially considering the choices. Its not like we are saying she needs to go out and buy a Hummer H1, but if she has the choice of getting AWD (Audi TT or 328xi)...I think its worth going for it.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: J86 on November 28, 2006, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: Catman on November 27, 2006, 07:28:23 PM
The Goodyear snows they put on the police cars are horrible.? Ultragrips or something.

Good to know :lol:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: saxonyron on November 28, 2006, 04:55:36 PM
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2006, 01:37:18 PM
And again, no one is saying RWD isn't doable, simply that AWD is much better suited for foul weather driving.

When I had my Z3 I drove it year-round with summer tires, and never got stuck and never got into an accident. But...I had to be a lot more careful where I went even here in NJ where we don't get that much snow. Its also flat as a board here (NJ is basically a big sand bar after all :lol: ).

In the context of this thread I think AWD is a reasonable consideration, especially considering the choices. Its not like we are saying she needs to go out and buy a Hummer H1, but if she has the choice of getting AWD (Audi TT or 328xi)...I think its worth going for it.

I agree - don't forget, the premise of this discussion is what would be best for his mom to buy.  Not what would you prefer.  I think you would all be very bad sons if you convinced your mom to buy a RWD car and wish her well in a snow storm.  :lol:  I've driven plenty of RWD cars in the snow.  I know just how they react and handle.  AWD is the better option.  Not a necessary option, just a better one. 
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 07:47:43 AM
Quote from: saxonyron on November 28, 2006, 04:55:36 PM
I agree - don't forget, the premise of this discussion is what would be best for his mom to buy.  Not what would you prefer.  I think you would all be very bad sons if you convinced your mom to buy a RWD car and wish her well in a snow storm. 


To be fair the original post said:

"she is looking to get a rwd coupe.  She really likes the 350z and g35 coupe, but she is unsure about using the car in the winter."

With proper snow tires, it isn't an issue. Thus we answered the question. ;)

If we were discussing personal preferences, I'd have responded with "buy a $500 beater for winter" as you don't have to care about what happens to it, or how much salt gets on it, etc. Slap some good winter tires on it and go. When it's nice, drive the nice car, when it's not, drive the beater. Insurance is nothing (and could actually be less due to having multiple car discounts), and you don't have to garage it. That's better than an AWD compromise for the rest of the year, and the new car you're making payments on doesn't get all salted up in the winter.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 07:48:22 AM
Quote from: Raza on November 28, 2006, 12:31:16 PM
You used to have an XJ6 coupe, right?

Me? No. I want one. I've had a couple of the sedans, however.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: TheIntrepid on November 29, 2006, 08:03:13 AM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 07:48:22 AM
Me? No. I want one. I've had a couple of the sedans, however.

I could swear that you had a BRG XJ6 coupe...
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: sandertheshark on November 29, 2006, 08:13:23 AM
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2006, 01:37:18 PM
And again, no one is saying RWD isn't doable, simply that AWD is much better suited for foul weather driving.

When I had my Z3 I drove it year-round with summer tires, and never got stuck and never got into an accident. But...I had to be a lot more careful where I went even here in NJ where we don't get that much snow. Its also flat as a board here (NJ is basically a big sand bar after all :lol: ).
I mentioned in another thread that a few years ago I bought what I thought was an AWD car that turned out to be just RWD.  I bought it specifically for Jersey's relatively mild inclement winter weather.  I didn't realize my mistake for four months until I tried digging out of a snowdrift.  It handled snow and ice and rain just fine.  Obviously not as well as a car with AWD could have, but it worked well enough.  But I wouldn't recomend trying it if you get more than a few inches with every snowstorm.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on November 29, 2006, 09:02:40 AM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 07:48:22 AM
Me? No. I want one. I've had a couple of the sedans, however.

How do they look on the used market?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: Raza on November 29, 2006, 09:02:40 AM
How do they look on the used market?

Cheap, cheap, and cheap. Especially the Series III cars like mine. Easy to work on, strong engines, but problematic fuel systems (dual tanks and multiple solenoids to supply fuel), and the issue of major rust on eastern cars (that black one I pictured looked good cleaned up, but was so rusty on the bottom it was coming apart at the seams underneath).

Comfy and classy, however, and easily swapped to GM engines that give you GM alternators and starters, too... ;)
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Michael Estorol on November 29, 2006, 01:14:28 PM
Quote from: Nebtek2002 on November 28, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
In my opinion, the biggest winter driving improvement made in the last 40 years was the radial tire.

40 years?
some folks had them a couple of decades before that  :praise:
(http://www.citroen-club.kiev.ua/legends/img/image01.jpg)

(ah, will the world ever really catch up ...)
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: thewizard16 on November 29, 2006, 02:00:59 PM
The first winter storm system is moving in here tonight/tomorrow, so I'll enjoy watching the idiots who can't drive slide around.... as long as they don't hit me.

On second thought, let them hit me, I'll get a different car.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: 850CSi on November 29, 2006, 02:02:30 PM
Quote from: thewizard16 on November 29, 2006, 02:00:59 PM
The first winter storm system is moving in here tonight/tomorrow, so I'll enjoy watching the idiots who can't drive slide around.... as long as they don't hit me.

On second thought, let them hit me, I'll get a different car.

There's winter in Arkansas?? ?:devil:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: thewizard16 on November 29, 2006, 02:06:13 PM
Quote from: 850CSi on November 29, 2006, 02:02:30 PM
There's winter in Arkansas?   :devil:
Haha... Northern Arkansas, yes. Northwest Arkansas in particular. We always get slammed with ice and sleet, and occasionally we're lucky enough to get some real snow. I happen to by lucky enough to live in Northwest Arkansas, so I get to see winter weather every year. It isn't what I remember/miss from Iowa though.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Submariner on November 29, 2006, 03:42:09 PM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 01:00:48 PM
Cheap, cheap, and cheap. Especially the Series III cars like mine. Easy to work on, strong engines, but problematic fuel systems (dual tanks and multiple solenoids to supply fuel), and the issue of major rust on eastern cars (that black one I pictured looked good cleaned up, but was so rusty on the bottom it was coming apart at the seams underneath).

Comfy and classy, however, and easily swapped to GM engines that give you GM alternators and starters, too... ;)

My parents had an 86 XJ6.  The engine died with 86 miles on the clock...then with 3000 miles.

It was sexy as hell, and glorious to drive, but was about as reliable as a politicians word of honor.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: ChrisV on November 30, 2006, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: Submariner on November 29, 2006, 03:42:09 PM
My parents had an 86 XJ6.  The engine died with 86 miles on the clock...then with 3000 miles.

It was sexy as hell, and glorious to drive, but was about as reliable as a politicians word of honor.

Do you remember what died? Was it dropping a tappet guide? Turns out, the US bound cars in the '80s had the forward catalytic converter mounted up by the head, and would heat the head to high enough temps that the tappet guide could come out of the head, hitting the cam, sending metal all through the engine. Thre is a $25 kit to fix that, that I installed in mine. It isn't necessary on non-catalyst equipped Jaguars.

Other than that, the engines are strong, reliable, and had been used in that form since 1948 in Jaguars. With the kit in them, 300k miles is not uncommon on the (otherwise) original engines.

Kind of like getting one of the few BMW E38s with the nikasil engines AND bad fuel. Don't damn the whole model because of one situation.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: omicron on December 01, 2006, 04:41:30 AM
Series 1 XJ12 :wub:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Nebtek2002 on December 01, 2006, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: The Pirate on November 28, 2006, 11:35:28 AM

Yep, my FWD Honda positively sucks in the snow.? I'd rather have my old Ford Ranger 2WD (it was 4WD, but Ford's damn electrically actuated transfer case just blows) than a lightweight FWD car.? My 1988 Bonneville was a great winter car, it was so heavy that it just went wherever you pointed it.


Honda Civics without snow tires are just worthless POS's in the snow though.

One of my sons has a '97 F150 with an old-fashioned manual transfer case.

He routinely helps pull Ranger/Explorer drivers out of situations their auto 4WDs got them into because they wouldn't stay in 4WD.

Don't know about the newer stuff, but late'80s/early'90s Accords weren't very good on snow, either.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: The Pirate on December 01, 2006, 09:21:48 AM
Quote from: Nebtek2002 on December 01, 2006, 09:17:32 AM
One of my sons has a '97 F150 with an old-fashioned manual transfer case.

He routinely helps pull Ranger/Explorer drivers out of situations their auto 4WDs got them into because they wouldn't stay in 4WD.

Don't know about the newer stuff, but late'80s/early'90s Accords weren't very good on snow, either.


The car is okay, but it's so light that traction can be hard to come by.  If the car was heavier, it'd be fine, but there goes the fuel economy.  With a good set of snow tires, my car just does just fine, but all seasons leave it a bit wanting.

My dad had a '97 Accord when I was in high school, and that thing was just terrible in snow, worse than my car for some reason.


Gotta love those old manual transfer cases too.  I'd take one of those over the new electronic ones any day.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: TBR on December 01, 2006, 11:39:02 AM
Don't know that you can get one in anything but a Dodge these days.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Guy Legend on December 03, 2006, 06:58:09 PM
If you go the coupe rwd coupe route (G35, 350z, etc.), I would get a set of dedicated snow tires for the bad months.? Snow tires will provide tremendous improvement - enough so that a rwd coupe should have no problems in moderate snow conditions.? Of course if the roads are extremely terrible, I wouldn't be driving out there in the first place.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on December 03, 2006, 07:13:39 PM
Quote from: Guy Legend on December 03, 2006, 06:58:09 PM
If you go the coupe rwd coupe route (G35, 350z, etc.), I would get a set of dedicated snow tires for the bad months.  Snow tires will provide tremendous improvement - enough so that a rwd coupe should have no problems in moderate snow conditions.  Of course if the roads are extremely terrible, I wouldn't be driving out there in the first place.

Nice, Guy Legend has arrived.  Welcome. :ohyeah:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: manuel on December 03, 2006, 07:17:56 PM
When I had my 330CI with PP('M' here in Canada) I swapped the OEM tires (Pilot Sport) for a set of Perilli P Zero Nero M&S ultra high performance all seasons which was an excellent compromise between winter and dry traction while keeping the low profile look. I can honestly tell you guys I had very little trouble with these tires in our winters (and it gets bad here at times!) but the beauty was that they still performed exceptionally well on dry and you never needed to swap rims/tires twice a year. I highly recommend these if you're willing to accept it is not the best winter option but good enough to get you there if you must drive the car in heavy snow at times.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: J86 on December 03, 2006, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on December 01, 2006, 09:21:48 AM

The car is okay, but it's so light that traction can be hard to come by.? If the car was heavier, it'd be fine, but there goes the fuel economy.? With a good set of snow tires, my car just does just fine, but all seasons leave it a bit wanting.

My dad had a '97 Accord when I was in high school, and that thing was just terrible in snow, worse than my car for some reason.


Gotta love those old manual transfer cases too.? I'd take one of those over the new electronic ones any day.

I had a '96 Accord which was the single worst car in the snow I have ever driven.  Of course, I had cheap all seasons on it, but in order to make it to school, I would use the ebrake to make turns on t heback roads around my house.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Submariner on December 03, 2006, 08:15:46 PM
Quote from: ChrisV on November 30, 2006, 11:38:32 AM
Do you remember what died? Was it dropping a tappet guide? Turns out, the US bound cars in the '80s had the forward catalytic converter mounted up by the head, and would heat the head to high enough temps that the tappet guide could come out of the head, hitting the cam, sending metal all through the engine. Thre is a $25 kit to fix that, that I installed in mine. It isn't necessary on non-catalyst equipped Jaguars.

Other than that, the engines are strong, reliable, and had been used in that form since 1948 in Jaguars. With the kit in them, 300k miles is not uncommon on the (otherwise) original engines.

Kind of like getting one of the few BMW E38s with the nikasil engines AND bad fuel. Don't damn the whole model because of one situation.

Ha...I was 5 months old when it happned, and neither of them are as car savvy as me.  SO I have no idea.  :P

Too bad, I sometimes see one driving in my town.  Sexy car.  :praise:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: TheIntrepid on December 03, 2006, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: Submariner on December 03, 2006, 08:15:46 PM
Ha...I was 5 months old when it happned, and neither of them are as car savvy as me. SO I have no idea. :P

Too bad, I sometimes see one driving in my town. Sexy car. :praise:

Your parents are loaded as hell aren't they?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: gasoline on December 03, 2006, 08:27:19 PM
Quote from: Guy Legend on December 03, 2006, 06:58:09 PM
If you go the coupe rwd coupe route (G35, 350z, etc.), I would get a set of dedicated snow tires for the bad months.  Snow tires will provide tremendous improvement - enough so that a rwd coupe should have no problems in moderate snow conditions.  Of course if the roads are extremely terrible, I wouldn't be driving out there in the first place.
Welcome, Guy Legend! Were you from C/D?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Guy Legend on December 03, 2006, 08:48:02 PM
Quote from: Catman on December 03, 2006, 07:13:39 PM
Nice, Guy Legend has arrived.? Welcome. :ohyeah:

Thanks.? ?:cheers:

Quote from: gasoline on December 03, 2006, 08:27:19 PM
Welcome, Guy Legend! Were you from C/D?

Yes.? ?:ohyeah:
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: rohan on December 03, 2006, 09:39:08 PM
I learned a lesson today always come prepared.  I got a set of Blizzdacks with my new car from the guy and I didn't get them on in time for this snow.  I don't intend on driving it much during hte winter but just to have them on in case I get caught.  I got caught.  It took me about 45 minutes to drive the 22 miles and I won't make that mistake agian.  The winter tires go on tomorrow.  How can that car be so bad when our CVPI's aren't even that bad?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: MX793 on December 03, 2006, 09:42:21 PM
Quote from: rohan on December 03, 2006, 09:39:08 PM
I learned a lesson today always come prepared.  I got a set of Blizzdacks with my new car from the guy and I didn't get them on in time for this snow.  I don't intend on driving it much during hte winter but just to have them on in case I get caught.  I got caught.  It took me about 45 minutes to drive the 22 miles and I won't make that mistake agian.  The winter tires go on tomorrow.  How can that car be so bad when our CVPI's aren't even that bad?

I'm sure the wide tires on the GTO don't help.  The CVs have significantly narrower tires, do they not?
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: The Pirate on December 03, 2006, 10:02:15 PM
Quote from: rohan on December 03, 2006, 09:39:08 PM
I learned a lesson today always come prepared.  I got a set of Blizzdacks with my new car from the guy and I didn't get them on in time for this snow.  I don't intend on driving it much during hte winter but just to have them on in case I get caught.  I got caught.  It took me about 45 minutes to drive the 22 miles and I won't make that mistake agian.  The winter tires go on tomorrow.  How can that car be so bad when our CVPI's aren't even that bad?


You have a second car for winter?  That's probably a good idea.  Winter is hard on cars, the GTO will be much happier as a summer car.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: JYODER240 on December 03, 2006, 10:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on December 03, 2006, 10:02:15 PM

You have a second car for winter?? That's probably a good idea.? Winter is hard on cars, the GTO will be much happier as a summer car.

Screw that, cars are meant to be driven.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: The Pirate on December 03, 2006, 10:13:25 PM
Quote from: JYoDeR240 on December 03, 2006, 10:07:17 PM
Screw that, cars are meant to be driven.



Until all the freaking salt they use makes them rust away to nothing.  When I sold my first car, the rust was pretty much the only holding it together at that point.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: JYODER240 on December 03, 2006, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: The Pirate on December 03, 2006, 10:13:25 PM


Until all the freaking salt they use makes them rust away to nothing.? When I sold my first car, the rust was pretty much the only holding it together at that point.

would you rather walk
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: The Pirate on December 03, 2006, 10:19:36 PM
Quote from: JYoDeR240 on December 03, 2006, 10:16:04 PM
would you rather walk


Yeah, I probably would rather walk.


But if I had a decent car, I would definitely pick up a $500 shitbox to get through winter in.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Champ on December 04, 2006, 01:43:10 AM
Quote from: JYoDeR240 on December 03, 2006, 10:07:17 PM
Screw that, cars are meant to be driven.
I had the hardest time deciding what to do with my car for winters.  On one hand it is in perfect condition and will be a collectors car in 10 years (much like the C900 is now).  However, it is WAY too much fun to drive to store.  :)

Side benefit, it gets around like crazy in the snow.  :D
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Submariner on December 04, 2006, 04:41:23 AM
Quote from: touareg208 on December 03, 2006, 08:22:30 PM
Your parents are loaded as hell aren't they?

They do alright.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: rohan on December 04, 2006, 06:01:36 PM
Quote from: MX793 on December 03, 2006, 09:42:21 PM
I'm sure the wide tires on the GTO don't help.? The CVs have significantly narrower tires, do they not?
Crowns have 225/60/16 adn mine has 245/45/17 or 18 I dont' remember.  I don't think going from 225 to 245 is that much a of difference is it?  That's what 1/2 inch?  And I do have a pick up I just don't think a car should sit much they need to be driven I just didn't know we were going to get a buch of snow.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Raza on December 04, 2006, 06:32:29 PM
I drove a GTO in snow before.  It's not that bad.  But damn, watch that rear end.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: MX793 on December 04, 2006, 08:44:29 PM
Quote from: rohan on December 04, 2006, 06:01:36 PM
Crowns have 225/60/16 adn mine has 245/45/17 or 18 I dont' remember.  I don't think going from 225 to 245 is that much a of difference is it?  That's what 1/2 inch?  And I do have a pick up I just don't think a car should sit much they need to be driven I just didn't know we were going to get a buch of snow.

40 mm is roughly 8/10 of an inch.  But when you combine the wider patch with less weight (I'd guess at least 500 lbs difference in curb weight), the Goat will have a harder time sinking through the snow and to the pavement.
Title: Re: RWD coupes in the winter...
Post by: Catman on December 04, 2006, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: rohan on December 04, 2006, 06:01:36 PM
Crowns have 225/60/16 adn mine has 245/45/17 or 18 I dont' remember.? I don't think going from 225 to 245 is that much a of difference is it?? That's what 1/2 inch?? And I do have a pick up I just don't think a car should sit much they need to be driven I just didn't know we were going to get a buch of snow.

I can't imagine it being much worse than a CV. :confused:  Put a block of wood under the gas pedal. :tounge: