Hopefully you know by now that I'm not one to troll for/against manufacturers, but the creation of all these new clubs is making me want to jump into a brandwagon :lol:
So why VW?
Suffice it to say, I never understood why some seem to have a strong preference for them; I don't see what makes them so special compared to Toyota, Nissan, or even Ford that justifies a considerable price tag premium over them. I've never bothered to badmouth VW until back when they advertised a $28,000 Passat as a "Low Ego" car, and later when they relvealed a concept Scirocco resembling a GTI with the "Fast and Furious" treatment that everyone went crazy for anyway. Recently I've liked to tell people that, "back in the day, VW's were cheap and reliable; now they're the exact opposite."
I suspect I will be flamed with the fires of hell now, but I honestly would like a VW fan to enlighten me as to what makes them superior to other similarly-sized family cars costing much less.
I don't suspect anyone is going to be joining my club, though :devil:
Not me anyway. It's just been revealed that I bought a Touareg today. :praise:
From a german perspective, I can tell you that VWs are THE cars. If you drive a Golf, you can be a highly paid professor or businessman or an umployed. It's a no ego car. That's what I love about VWs. Nobody is going to wank on a VW, but everybody who drives one will be happy with it. If VWs were human beeings, it were those buddies that are always there for you, who come around with a sixpack. Not those shiny people some retarded people like to be seen with so people talk about them, but those unshiny ones that are real. VWs (except the W8) always give underestimated output datas. On the Autobahn there are always business agent's TDIs on the left lane doing high speed drives. There are family-fathers who drive Sharans, Tourans or Passat Variants with children on the backseats who scream "faster, faster" (in german of course...).
With the qualities they offer, the VW price is only beat by Skoda and Seat.
PS: Yes, I've had a few beers...
Quote from: pommes-t on December 07, 2006, 04:49:49 PM
From a german perspective, I can tell you that VWs are THE cars. If you drive a Golf, you can be a highly paid professor or businessman or an umployed. It's a no ego car. That's what I love about VWs. Nobody is going to wank on a VW, but everybody who drives one will be happy with it. If VWs were human beeings, it were those buddies that are always there for you, who come around with a sixpack. Not those shiny people some retarded people like to be seen with so people talk about them, but those unshiny ones that are real. VWs (except the W8) always give underestimated output datas. On the Autobahn there are always business agent's TDIs on the left lane doing high speed drives. There are family-fathers who drive Sharans, Tourans or Passat Variants with children on the backseats who scream "faster, faster" (in german of course...).
With the qualities they offer, the VW price is only beat by Skoda and Seat.
PS: Yes, I've had a few beers...
:cheers: I agree.
so would it be an accurate statement to say that in N. America, the roles of Ford and VW are somewhat switched? (Ford being a more expensive brand over there, I'm guessing)
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 07, 2006, 04:54:46 PM
so would it be an accurate statement to say that in N. America, the roles of Ford and VW are somewhat switched? (Ford being a more expensive brand over there, I'm guessing)
People who have money drive Ford in the USA?
Ford are like ugly women who use too much make-up to me. VWs are like good housewives that are also sexy without using makeup. But not like women everybody turns the head for. :rockon:
Just take a look upon the new Mustang (which is a beautfiful woman, without a doubt, but somehow a "cheap" one). Just take a look upon its hood. The way it closes... It looks sooo breakable. Just not a quality product...
Quote from: pommes-t on December 07, 2006, 05:08:37 PM
People who have money drive Ford in the USA?
Ford are like ugly women who use too much make-up to me. VWs are like good housewives that are also sexy without using makeup.? But not like women everybody turns the head for. :rockon:
Just take a look upon the new Mustang (which is a beautfiful woman, without a doubt, but somehow a "cheap" one). Just take a look upon its hood. The way it closes... It looks sooo breakable. Just not a quality product...
well, Fords are somewhat popular with rich people (AFAIK), but not as their "trophy" car. I'm not sure how it is in Germany, but in N. America, most well-off households have 2 or 3+ vehicles. many of them include a full-size Ford Expedition SUV as the family hauler or a convertible Mustang as the weekend car.
as for the sexy housewife comparison, short of the new Audi TT roadster, I'm not sure I would go so far as to call anything VW makes "sexy" :confused:
I think VWs are WAY overpriced. Seriously.
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 07, 2006, 06:17:20 PM
I think VWs are WAY overpriced. Seriously.
Yes. And they get way too much credit on this forum for some reason.
And actually, unlike Toyotas, I don't think there are any past or present VW models I have any respect for. And they are the preffered brand of hippies, and I hate hippies. I need to be a part of this.
I'd say Toyota is the VW of the US. Not even counting Lexus, there are owners in the high, middle, and low-income brackets.
If VWs are for hippies, Fords and Chevys are for all-American hicks who haven't yet gotten over WW2. ;)
We've had a few VWs in my family, and they've all been reliable, ridden well, and came with more features standard than any of the other "mainstream" brands. Plus, they've looked classier, not thrown together like an American car or donned with phony lines to make it look more sporty like the Japanese cars. Plus, the manual trannies in VWs are a hell of alot better than any Toyota or Ford!
The "ego factor" is the reason my Dad bought an Audi instead of a BMW, by the way. ;) :rockon:
Speaking of clubs, has anyone here started a Wagon and Hatch club? I'll join! :cheers:
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 07, 2006, 06:35:09 PM
And actually, unlike Toyotas, I don't think there are any past or present VW models I have any respect for.? And they are the preffered brand of hippies, and I hate hippies.? I need to be a part of this.
want to be VP/Official Spokesperson of the club? :thumbsup:
Oh, and yeah... VWs wipe the floor with just about every American and Japanese car (save Mazda and Subaru) in handling. Ever drive one of those American wet noodles? Yuck!
I thought I was gonna spin off the road countless times in the last couple weeks driving an '04 Dodge Stratus. The thing can't handle a simple On/Off ramp at more than 50. I used to take 'em in the Saab at 80 with ease, assuming there was no other traffic around. When I tested the B5 Passat on the Garden State Pkwy., I gave it the "Saab treatment" and it handled it without blinking. That was the moment that sealed the deal in my mind.
Or else I would've had to go BMW shopping and spend more than I wanted (at least at the moment). Believe me, I was ready after driving some of these poor handling cars. :devil:
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 07, 2006, 08:42:29 PM
want to be VP/Official Spokesperson of the club? :thumbsup:
Ok.
Quote from: pommes-t on December 07, 2006, 04:49:49 PM
From a german perspective, I can tell you that VWs are THE cars. If you drive a Golf, you can be a highly paid professor or businessman or an umployed. It's a no ego car. That's what I love about VWs. Nobody is going to wank on a VW, but everybody who drives one will be happy with it. If VWs were human beeings, it were those buddies that are always there for you, who come around with a sixpack. Not those shiny people some retarded people like to be seen with so people talk about them, but those unshiny ones that are real. VWs (except the W8) always give underestimated output datas. On the Autobahn there are always business agent's TDIs on the left lane doing high speed drives. There are family-fathers who drive Sharans, Tourans or Passat Variants with children on the backseats who scream "faster, faster" (in german of course...).
With the qualities they offer, the VW price is only beat by Skoda and Seat.
PS: Yes, I've had a few beers...
Schnell, schnell!
I agree. Heidi's been nothing but there for me, whenever I needed transportation or emotional comfort. I didn't believe in Volkswagen until I owned one. Now I never want to be without a VW.
Quote from: Raza on December 07, 2006, 09:17:30 PM
Schnell, schnell!
I agree.? Heidi's been nothing but there for me, whenever I needed transportation or emotional comfort.? I didn't believe in Volkswagen until I owned one.? Now I never want to be without a VW.
I take it you named your Passat Heidi? I haven't really name my car i just call her baby sometimes. Some of my friends think its weird when i walk up to my car, run my fingers across the hood and say, "I missed you baby, you miss me too?" :lol:
Do we need a logo, Vin?
Quote from: TurboDan on December 07, 2006, 06:59:42 PM
If VWs are for hippies, Fords and Chevys are for all-American hicks who haven't yet gotten over WW2. ;)
We've had a few VWs in my family, and they've all been reliable, ridden well, and came with more features standard than any of the other "mainstream" brands. Plus, they've looked classier, not thrown together like an American car or donned with phony lines to make it look more sporty like the Japanese cars. Plus, the manual trannies in VWs are a hell of alot better than any Toyota or Ford!
The "ego factor" is the reason my Dad bought an Audi instead of a BMW, by the way. ;) :rockon:
The lack of an ego factor was one of the reasons that sent me over to Audis way back when. As a contractor, I park my car in front of my client's houses or buildings. Unfortunately MB, Jag, and BMW say "I'm gonna overcharge you!" Audi is far more neutral in most people's eyes. That was part of the appeal for me initially. 2 or my sisters in law and my mother in law all drive VW's. They are not fanboys at all - any crap a car gives them would not be tolerated. All 3 of them have had great luck. One is an '01 Jetta TDI with well over 100k miles. It still looks brand new and has never given her any trouble. And "way overpriced"?? I don't think so. They're competitively priced for what you get, otherwise....uhhhhh, people wouldn't buy them, right? VW can't hypnotise people yet. :huh:
Quote from: JYODER240 on December 07, 2006, 09:24:47 PM
I take it you named your Passat Heidi? I haven't really name my car i just call her baby sometimes. Some of my friends think its weird when i walk up to my car, run my fingers across the hood and say, "I missed you baby, you miss me too?" :lol:
I did. I called the E320 "Baby", named after Hannibal Smith's M60, which he also called "Baby".
I often kiss my two fingers and touch them to the VW symbol on the car as I walk by and hope no one notices.
You've got to love those little moments you have with your car. Those times when you fall in love with your car all over again like its the first week you have it. Thats when you know you bought the right car.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 07, 2006, 09:27:16 PM
Do we need a logo, Vin?
I was cooking this one up just now, but looks like you beat me to it :praise:
(http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4720/antivw1ze7.jpg)
I know what you mean. You should hear the way I talk to CJ. It really makes me sound like a freak but I don't suppose it would shock any of you guys by now.
Quote from: JYODER240 on December 07, 2006, 09:44:34 PM
You've got to love those little moments you have with your car. Those times when you fall in love with your car all over again like its the first week you have it. Thats when you know you bought the right car.
The day I took the picture of my car that's in my sig, I remember thinking "God damn, this is the best car ever made". That makes me so happy.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 07, 2006, 09:49:14 PM
I was cooking this one up just now, but looks like you beat me to it :praise:
(http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4720/antivw1ze7.jpg)
Yours is better, but I'm too lazy to change my sig three times in one day.
Quote from: JYODER240 on December 07, 2006, 09:24:47 PM
I take it you named your Passat Heidi? I haven't really name my car i just call her baby sometimes. Some of my friends think its weird when i walk up to my car, run my fingers across the hood and say, "I missed you baby, you miss me too?" :lol:
You should see the reaction when you do that to a Buick...
Quote from: Raza on December 07, 2006, 09:50:25 PM
The day I took the picture of my car that's in my sig, I remember thinking "God damn, this is the best car ever made".? That makes me so happy.
There's times when im either walking away or towards my car at night and i start to say to myself how beautiful that car looks when the lights on it just right. Then it hits me that its my car. To this day I still can't help but to look back at it every time I walk away.
Quote from: SaltyDog on December 07, 2006, 09:51:04 PM
You should see the reaction when you do that to a Buick...
Judging from the age demographic of the average Buick owner, most onlookers would just assume senility! :devil:
Quote from: saxonyron on December 07, 2006, 09:30:30 PM
The lack of an ego factor was one of the reasons that sent me over to Audis way back when.? As a contractor, I park my car in front of my client's houses or buildings.? Unfortunately MB, Jag, and BMW say "I'm gonna overcharge you!"? Audi is far more neutral in most people's eyes.? That was part of the appeal for me initially.
well, it's great that you ended up with the right car for yourself, but I've always though of Lexus as the practical person's luxury car.
I'm not going to pick a fight on Audi now, though; I'm really liking the design of the A6
Quote from: TurboDan on December 07, 2006, 08:50:26 PM
Oh, and yeah... VWs wipe the floor with just about every American and Japanese car (save Mazda and Subaru) in handling. Ever drive one of those American wet noodles? Yuck!
I thought I was gonna spin off the road countless times in the last couple weeks driving an '04 Dodge Stratus. The thing can't handle a simple On/Off ramp at more than 50. I used to take 'em in the Saab at 80 with ease, assuming there was no other traffic around. When I tested the B5 Passat on the Garden State Pkwy., I gave it the "Saab treatment" and it handled it without blinking. That was the moment that sealed the deal in my mind.
Or else I would've had to go BMW shopping and spend more than I wanted (at least at the moment). Believe me, I was ready after driving some of these poor handling cars. :devil:
IIRC, that was the Stratus coupe, right? That's not an American car, it's a Mitsubishi Eclipse. ;)
Nope, it's the Stratus sedan. There's nothing wrong with the engine or auto tranny. In fact, if it actually handled it wouldn't be a bad ride at all! I've driven a couple Eclipses before, and they didn't handle like the Stratus did. They weren't BMWs by any stretch, but they definitely handled better than the Stratus.
There's plenty of American cars that handle just fine. Chevy Cobalt and Impala aren't on par with Europeans but they're competent, especially in SS trim. G6 is quite good. GTO is superb. (I guess that's not really American though.) The Sigmas (CTS and STS) are excellent. Ford Focus is good. Apparently the Fusion/Milan/MKZ triplets are very good. The Cab-forward Chryslers (Concorde, 300M, Intrepid) were great. The 300C and Charger aren't as good but you can blame Benz for that.
Well, I dig my A2 Jetta and my Scirocco just fine, thank you :praise:
Quote from: TurboDan on December 07, 2006, 06:59:42 PM
Plus, the manual trannies in VWs are a hell of alot better than any Toyota or Ford!
The transmission's fine, it's the shifter that's a PITA. Too much slop...
You know, to rebuild the shifter in my Jetta, I have to drop the exhaust? :rage:
I've never been a hippy, and yet I've owned over 30 VWs. I've built many mnore for customers. i LOVE air cooled VWs, but the early water cooled cars are great, too. iv'e been involved with road race and rally Rabbits and Sciroccos, and they've been fun, fast, and reliable. The air cooled VWs have been able to do everything from offroad racing to custom car shows to drag racing. Ever been in an air cooled beetle that can run 10s and still be streetable? I have (my buddy's stock looking '63 beetle. Sounded like a big bore motorcycle, and acellerated harder).
If you can't find a past VW that you like, then I suggest you really haven't looked with an open mind.
(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/570966a.jpg)
(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2792240e.jpg)
(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/570966c.jpg)
Those were some of mine...
Cars like this are still competetive:
(http://www.briansgarage.com/images/FS/dsc_3303.jpg)
So, no, I can't join the club, as there are way too many older VWs I am a huge fan of. Beetles, Busses, Ghias, Squarebacks, A1 Rabbits, early Sciroccos, first and second gen Jettas. I had a custom first gen Jetta and wouldn't mind a custom A2 Jetta for a daily driver... like this car but in black:
(http://www.vwvortex.com/gallery/albums//Events/Enthusiast/Waterfest/2004/A2%20Golf%20and%20Jetta/014.jpg)
Quote from: ChrisV on December 08, 2006, 08:33:20 AM
If you can't find a past VW that you like, then I suggest you really haven't looked with an open mind.
How did I know you'd eventually come in here and say that? ;)
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 08:19:39 AM
There's plenty of American cars that handle just fine. Chevy Cobalt and Impala aren't on par with Europeans but they're competent, especially in SS trim. G6 is quite good. GTO is superb. (I guess that's not really American though.) The Sigmas (CTS and STS) are excellent. Ford Focus is good. Apparently the Fusion/Milan/MKZ triplets are very good. The Cab-forward Chryslers (Concorde, 300M, Intrepid) were great. The 300C and Charger aren't as good but you can blame Benz for that.
OK, to go car by car:
Chevy Cobalt and Impala - Don't handle as well as a VW, and you get to not handle as well while sitting in a car with a cheap plastic interior.
G6 - Had one as a rental. Not horrible, but not impressive, either. Didn't like the big gaps in the dash panels.
CTS - I'll give you that one, but the post should've ended there.
Ford Focus - See Cobalt. They do handle a little better, though.
Don't know anything about the Fusion line, so can't comment.
Concorde/Intrepid - Bwahahahaha! They were BOATS in every sense of the word! I once had to drive around St. Augustine, FL for about 5 days in a Concorde and it was hell on Earth! My ex girlfriend had an Intrepid, and I would dread driving that POS. It was bulky, awkward, the steering was terribly unresponsive, and it handled just like it looked!
300C - Personally, I think the 300C will outhandle the Intrepid/Concorde any day of the week! I don't mind the 300C, but it's HUGE.
Quote from: TurboDan on December 08, 2006, 08:37:45 AM
Concorde/Intrepid - Bwahahahaha! They were BOATS in every sense of the word! I once had to drive around St. Augustine, FL for about 5 days in a Concorde and it was hell on Earth! My ex girlfriend had an Intrepid, and I would dread driving that POS. It was bulky, awkward, the steering was terribly unresponsive, and it handled just like it looked!
I don't know.? My friend has a Concorde and I think it's one of the best-handling front-drive full-size cars I've driven.? Ask Touareg how he likes his Intrepid.
Were there any upgrades done to the Intrepid suspensions? Then, maybe. Was it the WORST handling car ever? Not at all. But it can't be compared to a VW.
Maybe the bulkiness put me off more than the handling, though. It's been a while since I drove one. ('03, I think.)
Quote from: TurboDan on December 08, 2006, 08:45:49 AM
Were there any upgrades done to the Intrepid suspensions? Then, maybe. Was it the WORST handling car ever? Not at all. But it can't be compared to a VW.
Maybe the bulkiness put me off more than the handling, though. It's been a while since I drove one. ('03, I think.)
My '99 Contour SVT outhandled my roommate's '99 Jetta GLX (and frankly, pretty much any other factory vehicle in anything close to it's price class, and could hold it's own with much more specialized vehicles).
Quote from: ChrisV on December 08, 2006, 08:53:37 AM
My '99 Contour SVT outhandled my roommate's '99 Jetta GLX (and frankly, pretty much any other factory vehicle in anything close to it's price class, and could hold it's own with much more specialized vehicles).
That's because it was a Mondeo.
Quote from: TurboDan on December 08, 2006, 08:59:27 AM
That's because it was a Mondeo.
it's as american as a lot of cars on your list.. ;)
The Fusion is a Mazda 6, and it handles very similar, as lessons learned on my car went into it. The point is, broad generalizations used to insult cars are pointless.
Quote from: ChrisV on December 08, 2006, 09:03:28 AM
The point is, broad generalizations used to insult cars are pointless.
That's true. But in this case, also harmless.
Quote from: ChrisV on December 08, 2006, 08:33:20 AM
So, no, I can't join the club, as there are way too many older VWs I am a huge fan of. Beetles, Busses, Ghias, Squarebacks, A1 Rabbits, early Sciroccos, first and second gen Jettas. I had a custom first gen Jetta and wouldn't mind a custom A2 Jetta for a daily driver... like this car but in black:
(http://www.vwvortex.com/gallery/albums//Events/Enthusiast/Waterfest/2004/A2%20Golf%20and%20Jetta/014.jpg)
Someday, someday, I'm going to do that VR6 swap (though that isn't what's pictured above), based on Project Eurotrash (owner goes by the name "Lawn Ninja" on the 'tex)
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 08:37:15 AM
How did I know you'd eventually come in here and say that? ;)
Because you know you were in the crosshairs? Because you feel that not being open minded is a virtue?
:lol:
Just pushin' ya around a bit.
But seriously, you can have a lot of fun with car like the ones I posted, and there are very valid reasons for owning/liking them. If someone refuses to even acknowledge that, then what does that really say about thier character, and why should anyone, especially me, respect that? I can respect simply saying I like something else better, but being actively against cars that you haven't even experienced? That's just silly. That's like saying American cars can't handle, without having experienced more than one or two.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 09:07:16 AM
That's true. But in this case, also harmless.
I don't think that promoting ignorant generalizations on a car forum is really all that harmless. It spreads and supports the general ignorance of cars that exists. When we as supposedly knowledgeable car enthusiasts (and the people that influence those around us in real life) promote and even believe those generalizations, then how is anyone out there supposed to form informed opinions? It's up to us to NOT promote those misinformed generalizations at all times. If you care enough to BE here, then you should care enough to follow suit.
I know.? I'm just in this for fun.? I don't seriously hate or old anything against any cars, or any particular drivers either.
(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/570966a.jpg)
One of the most adorable cars ever built. Last Saturday I talked to a friend of my parents who live in Ethiopia for many years. And he drove a Beetle there all the time. It was easy to higher it so he could really use it as an offroader. And everybody there could fix it.
Yours looks absolutely amazing! :ohyeah:
You know who else loved those old Beetles, right :devil:
(http://www.coiim.es/web/enlaces/Historia%20Industria_CD%20Original/images/Porsche-Hitler.gif)
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 08:42:12 AM
I don't know. My friend has a Concorde and I think it's one of the best-handling front-drive full-size cars I've driven. Ask Touareg how he likes his Intrepid.
TurboDanThe Intrepid's a fine handling car given it's FWD. The suspension on the Intrepids was a bit stiffer than the Concorde as it was a sportier version of the LH-body cars (Intrepid, Concorde, LHS, 300M). Maybe the one you rented was a rental lemon, but mine's been immaculately maintained and even at 140,000km, it still behaves like new.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 09:43:54 AM
You know who else loved those old Beetles, right :devil:
(http://www.coiim.es/web/enlaces/Historia%20Industria_CD%20Original/images/Porsche-Hitler.gif)
So?
He also had a fetish for Mercedes and BMWs, too. The Beetle, while initially concieved before he came to power, was one of his very few good ideas (even a psychotic madman can have those, you know). But the Beetles that came to market were built by the NEW VW company, a company started by the BRITISH occupation forces after the war, then turned over to german control many years later. it has nothing to DO with Hitler or the kDf company.
I can see it's going to be hard being this club's official spokesshark.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 09:52:26 AM
I can see it's going to be hard being this club's official spokesshark.
Here's your first assignment. State everything wrong with my new Touareg... as a vehicle. Why should someone not buy it? ;)
Quote from: touareg208 on December 08, 2006, 09:55:06 AM
Here's your first assignment. State everything wrong with my new Touareg... as a vehicle. Why should someone not buy it? ;)
Two words. Yukon Denali.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 09:56:10 AM
Two words. Yukon Denali.
Yeah, with a whole 13MPG in traffic. Screw the environment, and give money to Middle Eastern dictators in the process. My kinda car.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 07, 2006, 09:49:14 PM
I was cooking this one up just now, but looks like you beat me to it :praise:
(http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4720/antivw1ze7.jpg)
hahahahaha
The last line is the real kicker.
Quote from: TurboDan on December 08, 2006, 10:01:50 AM
Yeah, with a whole 13MPG in traffic. Screw the environment, and give money to Middle Eastern dictators in the process. My kinda car.
Of course it's your kinda car. You're a Republican. :praise:
Quote from: TurboDan on December 08, 2006, 10:01:50 AM
Yeah, with a whole 13MPG in traffic.? Screw the environment, and give money to Middle Eastern dictators in the process.? My kinda car.
We've given a lot more $$$ to Middle Eastern dictators in written checks than any gas-guzzling SUVs ever will. :lol:
Quote from: 850CSi on December 08, 2006, 10:20:54 AM
We've given a lot more $$$ to Middle Eastern dictators in written checks than any gas-guzzling SUVs ever will. :lol:
Too true.
What's worse, one 16 mpg SUV with one person in it (like my Rangie), or two 26 mpg sedans with one person in each? Right now, no one would have a problem with the latter.. ;)
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 09:52:26 AM
I can see it's going to be hard being this club's official spokesshark.
That's becasue it's an "anti-
X" club which is harder to defend than an "
X enthusiasts" club.
Sorry, but I do take this seriously. I think if people took all knowledge seriously, we wouldn't have a problem with, nor complain about, stupid people, especially "stupid Americans."
Quote from: 850CSi on December 08, 2006, 10:20:54 AM
We've given a lot more $$$ to Middle Eastern dictators in written checks than any gas-guzzling SUVs ever will.? :lol:
ooh, that's a good one. :lol:
Quote from: ChrisV on December 08, 2006, 08:33:20 AM
I've never been a hippy, and yet I've owned over 30 VWs. I've built many mnore for customers. i LOVE air cooled VWs, but the early water cooled cars are great, too. iv'e been involved with road race and rally Rabbits and Sciroccos, and they've been fun, fast, and reliable. The air cooled VWs have been able to do everything from offroad racing to custom car shows to drag racing. Ever been in an air cooled beetle that can run 10s and still be streetable? I have (my buddy's stock looking '63 beetle. Sounded like a big bore motorcycle, and acellerated harder).
If you can't find a past VW that you like, then I suggest you really haven't looked with an open mind.
I have to admit, as underpowered as they were, I do appreciate many earlier VW's (I believe I made a statement in my first post implying so); I think that the Karmann Ghia and Type 3 are pretty sweet cars. I even have a soft spot for 80's Cabriolets. But somewhere between the overrated fanboi favorite Corrado and the lovechild of delusional Ferdinand Piech (Phaeton), I'm just completely turned off by that brand :-(
i almost joined, until i remembered my first ride in a beetle. i'm going to get a ride in a karmann ghia someday.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 08, 2006, 11:21:58 AM
But somewhere between the overrated fanboi favorite Corrado and the lovechild of delusional Ferdinand Piech (Phaeton), I'm just completely turned off by that brand :-(
Corrado overrated? How? Why?
Silly thread IMHO. VW's certainly aren't overrated...they're essentially a niche brand in North America.
I bought my GTI because it was the best blend of features I wanted. It handled well (though not as well as a Cobalt SS), had all the luxury toys i wanted (heated seats, sunroof, nav, 6-disc cd changer), has good power without being overwhelming, gets good gas mileage, has a 6-speed manual, etc...
No other car could match its all around goodness, unless I spent a lot more money (ie: IS250 or 328i would be better cars, but only marginally and mainly due to being RWD).
I would have liked the Saab 9-3 as well, but the Aero only gets the big honkin V6 now and it was too easy to overwhelm the front tires. If Saab gives the 9-3 AWD it'll be near the top of my list for replacements. I am certainly not a VW fanboy (I only test drove the GTI so I could cross it off my list).
Quote from: L. ed foote on December 08, 2006, 12:03:05 PM
Corrado overrated?? How?? Why?
It always struck me as a wannabe BMW poser car putting underwhelming power through the wrong wheels. and didn't they cost as much as a 300ZX and Mustang GT?
as for the GTI, I think it's an ok car, but never cared for the body style; I'd choose a Civic Si or even the aforementioned Cobalt SS long before the GTI.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 08:42:12 AM
I don't know. My friend has a Concorde and I think it's one of the best-handling front-drive full-size cars I've driven. Ask Touareg how he likes his Intrepid.
Ask him how he likes his Camry, too.
God I need a Corrado VR6 right now.
I don't understand these clubs. I understand not liking the way people pretend their cars are gods among other cars, and are superior to anything ever built or to be built (a problem among many Toyota and VW owners), but there's nothing wrong with the cars. I like VW, and I like Toyota, but neither company (not including luxury marques) makes anything I'd buy right now. They both make good cars, and have made good cars, and have done things to earn their reputations, so what's everyone up at arms about? :huh: :P
Quote from: thewizard16 on December 08, 2006, 03:05:46 PM
I understand not liking the way people pretend their cars are gods among other cars, and are superior to anything ever built or to be built (a problem among many Toyota and VW owners)
that's pretty much the point of this club (and probably Wimmer's too). this whole thing did start off as a joke, though; I'm not sure about now :mask:
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 08, 2006, 03:11:39 PM
that's pretty much the point of this club (and probably Wimmer's too). this whole thing did start off as a joke, though; I'm not sure about now :mask:
I am dead serious! I am always dead serious. And I don't like people that don't like VW!!! :banghead: :nono:
( ;))
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 08, 2006, 03:11:39 PM
that's pretty much the point of this club (and probably Wimmer's too). this whole thing did start off as a joke, though; I'm not sure about now :mask:
I'm still laughing.
Quote from: pommes-t on December 08, 2006, 04:52:05 PM
I am dead serious!? I am always dead serious. And I don't like people that don't like VW!!!? :banghead: :nono:
( ;))
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5844/misterttd0.jpg)
I pity the fool with double digit hp ratings :hammerhead:
i wonder about those with single digit(yours truly.)
Quote from: heelntoe on December 09, 2006, 07:06:31 AM
i wonder about those with single digit(yours truly.)
and you too ;) ...with your 3hp bike :praise:
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 08, 2006, 06:40:06 PM
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5844/misterttd0.jpg)
I pity the fool with double digit hp ratings :hammerhead:
Do you have to diss owners of small cars on the internet, because in real life people diss you because of a small penis?` :devil:
:huh: :lol:
What car do you drive btw?
Quote from: touareg208 on December 09, 2006, 07:30:44 AM
and you too ;) ...with your 3hp bike :praise:
8.5 hp last time i checked :praise:
it can spin wheels in gravel, too.
Quote from: pommes-t on December 09, 2006, 07:55:02 AM
Do you have to diss owners of small cars on the internet, because in real life people diss you because of a small penis?` :devil:
? :huh:? :lol:
What car do you drive btw?
hey...leave my penis out of this :mask:
(http://myspace-292.vo.llnwd.net/01099/29/24/1099594292_l.jpg)
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 09, 2006, 10:12:07 AM
hey...leave my penis out of this :mask:
(http://myspace-292.vo.llnwd.net/01099/29/24/1099594292_l.jpg)
:lol:
Nice ride. :ohyeah:
Quote from: pommes-t on December 09, 2006, 10:33:06 AM
:lol:
Nice ride.? :ohyeah:
thanks :ohyeah:
aww...now I have to be nice to you. boo. :P
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 09, 2006, 10:44:56 AM
thanks :ohyeah:
aww...now I have to be nice to you. boo. :P
:lol:
You don't have to.
Do you have the lawnmower upgrade, the two roataing blades under the car, btw? Ohhh, sorry, I forgot, this was only available for a few Acuras. Yours has too less torque. But hey, you already have the sound! :lol:
Quote from: pommes-t on December 09, 2006, 10:49:35 AM
:lol:
You don't have to.
Do you have the lawnmower upgrade, the two roataing blades under the car, btw? Ohhh, sorry, I forgot, this was only available for a few Acuras. Yours has too less torque. But hey, you already have the sound!? :lol:
now there's the spirit!
hey don't forget to feed the hamster turning the wheel under your hood :praise:
Perhaps an anti-"X" club thread is in jest, but IMO it's an immature act when such a notion finds its way into a signature.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 09, 2006, 10:52:43 AM
now there's the spirit!
hey don't forget to feed the hamster turning the wheel under your hood :praise:
:lol:
I've fed it with a lot of testosterone, Dr. Pepper and Hamburgers. Now it produces more than 60 horsepower!
As of late VWs strike me as very business-ish. Like the only people I could see driving VWs these days are consultants (Passats), real estate agents (Jettas) and delivery-folks (Rabbits). Their cars have such utilitarian designs these days it's hard to see how anyone could be passionate about them.
That said, I do like the older designs; especially the first round of VR6 cars. If reliability wasn't such a coin flip with them I would probably get one.
Vinsanity, is that a 2.0 or a 2.2?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 09, 2006, 12:35:55 PM
As of late VWs strike me as very business-ish. Like the only people I could see driving VWs these days are consultants (Passats), real estate agents (Jettas) and delivery-folks (Rabbits). Their cars have such utilitarian designs these days it's hard to see how anyone could be passionate about them.
That said, I do like the older designs; especially the first round of VR6 cars. If reliability wasn't such a coin flip with them I would probably get one.
In my opinion, you're way off.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 09, 2006, 12:35:55 PM
As of late VWs strike me as very business-ish. Like the only people I could see driving VWs these days are consultants (Passats), real estate agents (Jettas) and delivery-folks (Rabbits). Their cars have such utilitarian designs these days it's hard to see how anyone could be passionate about them.
That said, I do like the older designs; especially the first round of VR6 cars. If reliability wasn't such a coin flip with them I would probably get one.
I have no idea how accurate that is around here, but I really like the new Passat. To me it's a more classly (or professional) alternative to a Camry or Accord, and based on looks and interior design alone, can justify it's higher price tag.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 07, 2006, 04:36:58 PM
Hopefully you know by now that I'm not one to troll for/against manufacturers, but the creation of all these new clubs is making me want to jump into a brandwagon :lol:
So why VW?
Suffice it to say, I never understood why some seem to have a strong preference for them; I don't see what makes them so special compared to Toyota, Nissan, or even Ford that justifies a considerable price tag premium over them. I've never bothered to badmouth VW until back when they advertised a $28,000 Passat as a "Low Ego" car, and later when they relvealed a concept Scirocco resembling a GTI with the "Fast and Furious" treatment that everyone went crazy for anyway. Recently I've liked to tell people that, "back in the day, VW's were cheap and reliable; now they're the exact opposite."
I suspect I will be flamed with the fires of hell now, but I honestly would like a VW fan to enlighten me as to what makes them superior to other similarly-sized family cars costing much less.
I don't suspect anyone is going to be joining my club, though :devil:
I did not read the thread- just this OP.
(http://members.airsoftcanada.com/digital_assasin/Forum%20Stuff/Misc/oh_snap.gif)
I actually like VW, but am not really a big fan of what they offer. They seem a bit pricey for all but the most base model vehicles offered, and the long term reliability issue is still unanswered. When you pay more for a vehicle and repairs cost more, you expect it is because it has better quality. But f the vehicle is expensive to buy, repair, AND it breaks more often than the average U.S. domestic- then what?
Compound that with the rather soft suspension settings that even 'sport' models have, and it seems the vehicles are about image and straight line speed and comfortable cruising than actual all around driving performance. Then add the typical VW fan responses to handling or performance or price criticisms for a stock new VW:
"1) It's German
2) The VW has a luxury car interior
3) You can just chip it and get 60 more HP
4) $1,500 worth of suspension mods will fix the handling issues
5) The VW has soul
6) It's German"
And ---- even then I don't understand the point of making a club
against a brand, and especially a brand with interesting models. It's just a car- and there seems to be a lot of people willing to pay a little extra for price and repairs to have something different, and they also seem to not care about VWoA being a complete ars when it comes to known issue repairs under warranty. :huh:
Seriously- I wish VW would have a Mazdaspeed, 'M', SVT- etc- type tuning branch that would offer a tuned version of their current vehicles. The GTI just needs proper damping to be a much better performer, and if VW turbo engines can reliably take much more boost- then why not offer that as a bolt on factory kit? :confused:
I like the GTI, Golf, and TDI engines they offer, and I really like some of their older offerings. Though the Jetta sucks and is overpriced, the Passat is overpriced, the Eos is stupid and overpriced, the Taureg is overpriced and too luxury oriented, I won't call myself anti-VW. They can make good cars, they just usually don't
What don't you like about the Eos? It's a beautiful car, is the perfect size, has a great interior, and has a convertible hardtop. Maybe I'd start it at $24K rather than $28K, but I like it alot.
I haven't driven it yet, though. I might have to take one for a spin some time. If it handles well, I probably would take it over even an A4 convertible, as it's smaller and more fresh looking.
Alot of people like the fact that the Touareg is luxury-oriented. In the past, if you wanted a luxury SUV, you either had to buy something ridiculously priced like a Range Rover or something wimpy like the RX300. (Yes, I know the LX470 is out there, too.. but whatever.) The Touareg has great towing and alot of room with a great interior and better handling than most SUVs. It also has a diesel option, which is awesome.
It doesn't seem to be a driver's car. Is it even standard with a manual? Just seems to be a better, but more expensive Sebring or Solara. Boring, and I don't like 'verts anyway.
Just saw your edit. I do like the Taureg(man, I keep butchering that, Too lazy to look up) but I'd like to see a stripped down version offered as a base with a lower pricetag.
"The Touareg has great towing and alot of room with a great interior and better handling than most SUVs. "
It's so heavy that it's not a great handler, behind cars like the SRX, FX, and new MDX. And interior packaging is a definite sore point, there's very little rear seat space.
But it is a good combination of off-road and towing ability with luxury and (relative) affordability.
I thought the Taureg and Cayenne had about the same interior room as a Ford Escape?
Maybe dimensionally, but the Escape seat is more comfortable. So is the Cayenne's, actually. They're higher and have more foot space beneath the front seats, which the measurements can't really capture.
Quote from: Raza on December 09, 2006, 02:56:51 PM
Vinsanity, is that a 2.0 or a 2.2?
2.0L - 9000rpm
although the 2.2L is rated at 237hp (after the new SAE standard) and the 2.0 was rated at 240, the 2.2L's have dyno'ed slightly higher than the 2.0's. oh well, I like being able to claim the higher redline :praise:
Quote from: BRealistic on December 09, 2006, 03:13:53 PM
And ---- even then I don't understand the point of making a club against a brand, and especially a brand with interesting models. It's just a car- and there seems to be a lot of people willing to pay a little extra for price and repairs to have something different,
is the joke getting old already? :huh:
I can't join. I have a Seat which is based on a VW, and my family has a Passat. If there is a positively-VW Club, I'll join!
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 08, 2006, 09:43:54 AM
You know who else loved those old Beetles, right :devil:
(http://www.coiim.es/web/enlaces/Historia%20Industria_CD%20Original/images/Porsche-Hitler.gif)
There's a reason why he drove one- the whole shootin match was his idea more or less. I personally don't like Vw's because they are so freakin boring but I don't hate them. They just seem like BMW pretenders to me but I'm not very informed about what VW's really are as cars so my opinion is just that- my opinion. But they just don't do anything for me but if someone wanted to give me one I wouldn't turn it down.
See link
http://people.westminstercollege.edu/staff/bknorr/html/history.htm
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/brealistic/GTIPODAD.jpg)
:P
^^^ :lol: :devil: :lol: ^^^
Gee, there's just SO MUCH to love about old air-cooled VWs:
1) No heat in the winter.
2) No ventilation in the summer.
3) High interior noise levels.
4) Expensive parts relative to what you got. My Dad got a single-speed windshield wiper ,no washer,motor for his '57 Bug for what his mechanic told him a 3-speed motor with integral washer pump for a Cadillac cost.
5) Contrary to the factory hype, not very good winter traction. Most modern FWDs, and a goodly lot of RWDs, so long as they have good tires, can shame a bug on the slick stuff.
Even in the Bug's heyday, conventional RWDs with limited-slip rear ends could go where no Bug dared.
6) Non-breathable upholstery over uncomfortable seats. Cheap rubber on the floor. Nothing to deaden sound underneath the rubber.
7) "Air-cooled" engines depend a lot on oil to keep them cool. The VW should have had a larger oil capacity than a Falcon, but actually had half the Falcon's capacity. VW ads actually claimed that this was a GOOD thing.
Early water-cooled VWs had crappy bodies that rusted badly before the 3-year payments were finished. But at least they had heat.
I must say that there are a lot of diesel Rabbits still chugging along, though their door bottoms flap in the breeze.
The present VWs don't seem to be bad cars, but they're way overpriced.
Quote from: BRealistic on December 10, 2006, 08:54:32 AM
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/brealistic/GTIPODAD.jpg)
:rolleyes:
I don't even have an iPod.
It does match my iBook though. :praise: :lol:
Quote from: rohan on December 10, 2006, 08:31:28 AM
I personally don't like Vw's because they are so freakin boring but I don't hate them.? They just seem like BMW pretenders to me but I'm not very informed about what VW's really are as cars so my opinion is just that- my opinion.? But they just don't do anything for me but if someone wanted to give me one I wouldn't turn it down.
See stuff like this I just don't understand.
VW's are boring? Well I guess that's relative. Are VW's more boring than Toyotas? Hondas? Chevies? Fords? Lexus'? Acuras? What is the basis for them to be judged?
In general VW's seem to be on the more "fun" side of the spectrum IMHO. Outside of a Mazdaspeed3 or Cobalt SS I can't think of a more fun car in the GTI's class. Same with the GLI (versus say, the TSX, Accord, even Mazda6 and Ponitac G6). I guess if you compare a GTI to an S2000 the VW would be boring...?
I am also not sure what you mean with the "BMW" pretender comment. I don't know a lot of people that drive VW's (there's me, a guy I worked with in Montreal that drove a Gold TDI, and my cousin who has a Passat), but I've never met someone in a VW who thought it was comparable to a BMW. I don't think anyone on this forum claims their VW is a BMW either (other than Raza, but he's delusional). From a marketing POV VW's do lean toward being an aspirational brand (ie: you pay a premium to drive their cars...you won't find them advertising great discounts), but the most recent commercials I have seen didn't relate at all to BMW (GTI as the anti-ricer, Jetta and "safe happens" seems Volvo-ish, and Passat is almost marketed as the anti-BMW in their ego-free commercials).
If you have never driven a VW, it might be worthwhile just stopping by a dealer and taking one or two out for a test drive. Before I drove the GTI the only VW product on my shopping list was the Audi A4.
Quote from: Raza on December 09, 2006, 02:57:24 PM
In my opinion, you're way off.
With modifications I think they look great. But to me, visually they are the equivalent of Ikea office furniture. A dichotomy of high style and detail with a general lack of passion and flair. They are visually appealing and in another echelon of design from their Japanese competitors, but at the same time, to me, a Passat is no more exciting visually than a Camry. Dynamically it may be in another league, but all the straight cut lines and the black underbody don't suggest it.
I think design-wise VW peaked in the mid-90s.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 09:47:22 AM
Passat is almost marketed as the anti-BMW in their ego-free commercials
isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"
I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton :rolleyes: and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini :praise: (which to me is their biggest saving grace)
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 11, 2006, 10:19:16 AM
isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"
I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton :rolleyes: and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini :praise: (which to me is their biggest saving grace)
Their recent trend of advertising (last six years or so) is a big reason why I hate them now. They'r not the people's car any more - they're the elitist's car.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 11, 2006, 10:19:16 AM
isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"
I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton :rolleyes: and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini :praise: (which to me is their biggest saving grace)
I had an alcohol induced rant about this a while ago:
Quote from: 93JC on August 06, 2006, 12:20:28 AM
I fucking hate those commercials. Low-ego emissions my eye. Feigning a complete lack pf pretentiousness is complete and utter codswallop. It is in-and-of-itself pretentious.
If you aren't pretentious, why are you driving a VW Passat anyway? $40,000 cock-mobiles, damn it! If they're really not pretentious they'd drive a rusty, beat up rattletrap piece of shit Chevrolet Sprint three-banger and like it. Fucking wankers.
Everyone who drives a Passat is a wanker.
Especially Raza. He goes by his middle name because his given name is Wank-nozzle.
(:P)
:lol:
Quote from: 93JC on December 11, 2006, 10:28:40 AM
I had an alcohol induced rant about this a while ago:
:lol:
you, sir, are my new hero :thumbsup: :rockon:
I do, however, still like the "unpimp da auto" ads; I hate ricers. I wish they would take their fanboi-ism to another brand (besides Honda). but the GTI isn't really an anti-ricer car. that would be the GTO :ohyeah:
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 11, 2006, 10:19:16 AM
isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"
I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton :rolleyes: and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini :praise: (which to me is their biggest saving grace)
Why is it "contradictory" for the VW brand to be aspirational in North America?
What you "took" from the ad is obviously more based on your warped sense of reality than what the ad actualy said.
I guess you final point that everything would be okay if only they hadn't made the Phaeton makes sense though. :rolleyes:
QuoteTheir recent trend of advertising (last six years or so) is a big reason why I hate them now. They'r not the people's car any more - they're the elitist's car.
:huh:
VW is the most popular brand in its home market. Seems consistent with the "people's car" brand name. That being said, judging a car line because the name is not a description of their market strategy is a little silly, IMHO.
Its like saying you don't like BMW because their brand symbol (a propeller) isn't representative of their products. To me, you just make yourself look ignorant. VW's are called VW's because of their brand history, just like BMW has a propeller on the hood because of its history. Call me crazy, but to me having a brand that actually means something historically is a great thing to have (as opposed to pure marketing brands like "Infiniti" or "Lexus").
As for VW's being elitist... :confused:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 09:32:28 AM
:rolleyes:
I don't even have an iPod.
It does match my iBook though. :praise: :lol:
Oh- I was just being facetious. But you have to admit..... Think about it. In those cars ads they take the Japanese and domestic cars of wan-a-be urban youth and then make them take a white German car surrounded by blond white people wearing white....... Hmm. Everybody must adhere to the superior race? :confused:
Still- those are funny ads. :lol:
-----------
And the 'low ego emission' ads... hmm. You have to admit that idea of selling a car because its image is anti-image and thus better than cars that have an image..... that is very confusing.
Where have I seen this style of argument before...
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 10:55:07 AM
Oh- I was just being facetious. But you have to admit..... Think about it. In those cars ads they take the Japanese and domestic cars of wan-a-be urban youth and then make them take a white German car surrounded by blond white people wearing white....... Hmm. Everybody must adhere to the superior race? :confused:
Still- those are funny ads. :lol:
-----------
And the 'low ego emission' ads... hmm. You have to admit that idea of selling a car because its image is anti-image and thus better than cars that have an image..... that is very confusing.
Yeah, Germans are racists, you know. People don't change after generations. It's like Americans who like to go out and hunt some Indians, haha, very funny...
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 11, 2006, 10:56:39 AM
Where have I seen this style of argument before...
You talking about my 'all white' comment?
I actually do not think that is what they meant to be saying with those ads. But it is ironic none the less.
As far as my Ipod joke- the ads are very Zoolander like. And yes- Zoolander would buy a car based on it matching his Ipod. :P
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 11:00:31 AM
You talking about my 'all white' comment?
Talking about SJ's style actually.
Quote from: pommes-t on December 11, 2006, 10:59:23 AM
Yeah, Germans are racists, you know. People don't change after generations. It's like Americans who like to go out and hunt some Indians, haha, very funny...
Ummm, ok. It IS something that can be taken from the ads. I am not saying that is what they meant by the ad, but I noticed it and mentioned it. I am not sure why simply mentioning something like that is wrong (based on your response). Anyways- whatever. It was just a silly tangent in a VW bashing thread- a thread where I actually said I like VW and don;t understand the reason for an Anti-VW club. But (shrug), I guess that doesn't matter since I have my own opinions about VW commercials. To avoid this confusion in the future- just list the acceptable topics for this thread- and I will stay with those.......
:ohyeah:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 09:47:22 AM
See stuff like this I just don't understand.
VW's are boring? Well I guess that's relative. Are VW's more boring than Toyotas? Hondas? Chevies? Fords? Lexus'? Acuras? What is the basis for them to be judged?
The basis is my feelings nothing more and I said I have no real idea what the VW's are really about. Just my opinion that they are boring look around at other cars like the Audi's they have style. They may be more but they have style and so do the BMW's even though I like the last ones better. Teh Lecern(sp?) has more style than it's VW counterpart by alot and the other VW's are way behind the Mustang Charger GTO Corvette most Volvo's stylewise and even a couple other Fords like the high end Fusion is hotter. Sorry just my opinio.
QuoteIn general VW's seem to be on the more "fun" side of the spectrum IMHO. Outside of a Mazdaspeed3 or Cobalt SS I can't think of a more fun car in the GTI's class. Same with the GLI (versus say, the TSX, Accord, even Mazda6 and Ponitac G6). I guess if you compare a GTI to an S2000 the VW would be boring...?
I've driven the G6 and I'm pretty impressed with it's drop top. I wish they'ld pu t that on the GTO but the car is pretty nice and it looks better than that one in you sig. No offense meant I'm talking just in my own mind it looks better maybe everyone here thinks I'm wrong about that but it's how I see it.
QuoteI am also not sure what you mean with the "BMW" pretender comment. I don't know a lot of people that drive VW's (there's me, a guy I worked with in Montreal that drove a Gold TDI, and my cousin who has a Passat), but I've never met someone in a VW who thought it was comparable to a BMW. I don't think anyone on this forum claims their VW is a BMW either (other than Raza, but he's delusional). From a marketing POV VW's do lean toward being an aspirational brand (ie: you pay a premium to drive their cars...you won't find them advertising great discounts), but the most recent commercials I have seen didn't relate at all to BMW (GTI as the anti-ricer, Jetta and "safe happens" seems Volvo-ish, and Passat is almost marketed as the anti-BMW in their ego-free commercials).
You just proved my point in yuor own paragraph in alot of their commercials they are trying to beat out much better cars with "look at us we're just as good" campaigns that make them look like they are wanna-bes when they should just stick to selling their cars.
QuoteIf you have never driven a VW, it might be worthwhile just stopping by a dealer and taking one or two out for a test drive. Before I drove the GTI the only VW product on my shopping list was the Audi A4.
I've never driven one but maybe I will then I can make my arguemnts froma n educated position. Thanks for the advice.
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 10:55:07 AM
Oh- I was just being facetious. But you have to admit..... Think about it. In those cars ads they take the Japanese and domestic cars of wan-a-be urban youth and then make them take a white German car surrounded by blond white people wearing white....... Hmm. Everybody must adhere to the superior race? :confused:
Still- those are funny ads. :lol:
-----------
And the 'low ego emission' ads... hmm. You have to admit that idea of selling a car because its image is anti-image and thus better than cars that have an image..... that is very confusing.
Regarding the iPod, I actually think that is funny. Mac's are certainly "trendy" and VW absolutely tries to be (though I am not sure they succeed, outside of the interweb I have never met anyone that bought a VW because they thought it was "cool"). Raza has certainly made fun of me before because I do own a VW, I do own a Mac (though not an iPod yet :P ), and I do like to stop at Starbucks for coffee on a regular basis. :nono:
:lol:
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 11, 2006, 10:56:39 AM
Where have I seen this style of argument before...
:huh:
I didn't know I had a style?
Oh yea the other reason I don't like them right now-
WTF is the deal with the "You can plug your guitar into the stereo and it becomes an amplifier?"
That's actually worse than the "The Aztec transforms into a tent" bs. Those commercials alone will probably make me never buy a VW.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:11:03 AM
Regarding the iPod, I actually think that is funny. Mac's are certainly "trendy" and VW absolutely tries to be (though I am not sure they succeed, outside of the interweb I have never met anyone that bought a VW because they thought it was "cool"). Raza has certainly made fun of me before because I do own a VW, I do own a Mac (though not an iPod yet :P ), and I do like to stop at Starbucks for coffee on a regular basis. :nono:
:lol:
Style does matter- and VW does push this since they tend to have their own thing going on with image, styling and interiors. Though they lost the reliable go cart image they had in the 80s.
Are you planning on upgrading the suspension or engine of your GTI?
Quote from: rohan on December 11, 2006, 11:09:49 AM
The basis is my feelings nothing more and I said I have no real idea what the VW's are really about.? Just my opinion that they are boring look around at other cars like the Audi's they have style.? They may be more but they have style and so do the BMW's even though I like the last ones better.? Teh Lecern(sp?) has more style than it's VW counterpart by alot and the other VW's are way behind the Mustang Charger GTO Corvette most Volvo's stylewise and even a couple other? Fords like the high end Fusion is hotter.? Sorry just my opinio.
I've driven the G6 and I'm pretty impressed with it's drop top.? I wish they'ld pu t that on the GTO but the car is pretty nice and it looks better than that one in you sig.? No offense meant I'm talking just in my own mind it looks better maybe everyone here thinks I'm wrong about that but it's how I see it.
You just proved my point in yuor own paragraph in alot of their commercials they are trying to beat out much better cars with "look at us we're just as good" campaigns that make them look like they are wanna-bes when they should just stick to selling their cars.
I've never driven one but maybe I will then I can make my arguemnts froma n educated position.? Thanks for the advice.
I already posted more in this thread than I intended (I do recognize that its mainly a joke).
I agree that my car isn't as nice looking as a GTO, Corvette, or Mustang. I think the Fusion is nicer looking than the Jetta as well. I am not sure what the means as far as this discussion though.
I am not sure you understood my point with the commercials though. VW doesn't directly compare to any other specific cars, except the Passat commercial, and I don't think VW was seriously comparing the Passat to a Viper or Corvette. Maybe I am wrong though.
Maybe my car is a wannabe car and I just don't know it. :huh:
And lastly, if you want to swear off from ever buying from a brand because it gives away free guitars, that's up to you. :confused:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:11:03 AM
I do own a VW, I do own a Mac (though not an iPod yet? :P ), and I do like to stop at Starbucks for coffee on a regular basis.? :nono:
You yuppie douchebag...? :pee:
(:lol:)
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:20:33 AM
I already posted more in this thread than I intended (I do recognize that its mainly a joke).
I agree that my car isn't as nice looking as a GTO, Corvette, or Mustang. I think the Fusion is nicer looking than the Jetta as well. I am not sure what the means as far as this discussion though.
I am not sure you understood my point with the commercials though. VW doesn't directly compare to any other specific cars, except the Passat commercial, and I don't think VW was seriously comparing the Passat to a Viper or Corvette. Maybe I am wrong though.
Maybe my car is a wannabe car and I just don't know it.? :huh:
Easy guy.? I was just saying I'm not personally in love with them I was also not comparing them directly either you asked me why I think they're boring and I told you- I think there are alot of cars out there better looking that's all.? I'm also not calling your car a wanna-be care either and if I did write that I shouldn't have.? I only meant that I just don't like that style and there's more than just the GTI in that style out there.? Sorry I wasn't trying to be insulting.? BUT I also said I might go drive a couple to get some knowledge aboutthem.?
Quote from: 93JC on December 11, 2006, 11:23:54 AM
You yuppie douchebag... :pee:
(:lol:)
I always loved hanging out at Starbucks, listening to young people complain about the ridiculous price of gas while sipping 4$ cups of dirty water with frothed cow milk. :huh:
.
Seriously though- you can get regular coffee at Starbucks for normal prices. We don't have a Starbucks in my town- we are cool enough. :P
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:20:33 AM
And lastly, if you want to swear off from ever buying from a brand because it gives away free guitars, that's up to you.? :confused:
I was talking about how effing stupid those commercials are- nothing to do with them giving guitars away- just the stupid commercials. Calm down! :lol:
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 11:04:56 AM
Ummm, ok. It IS something that can be taken from the ads. I am not saying that is what they meant by the ad, but I noticed it and mentioned it. I am not sure why simply mentioning something like that is wrong (based on your response). Anyways- whatever. It was just a silly tangent in a VW bashing thread- a thread where I actually said I like VW and don;t understand the reason for an Anti-VW club. But (shrug), I guess that doesn't matter since I have my own opinions about VW commercials. To avoid this confusion in the future- just list the acceptable topics for this thread- and I will stay with those.......
:ohyeah:
Sorry, but that these adds were racist is the last thing I would have thought about. Would you also have thought about this if this would have been a japanese add with only japanese looking people? Probably not. And that's what is pissing me off. I love my country and this country isn't a Nazi country anymore like some people who haven't got the fact that the war is over since a few years now, might think.
Of course we have fewer blacks here than you have, but you probably know the reason: Because Americans "imported" them as slaves. Nothing to be very proud of, isn't it? So most germans are white, and yeah, guess what, german engineers are mostly white, too. So that's probably the reason why all people in this add are white. Got it?
Quote from: pommes-t on December 11, 2006, 11:37:35 AM
Sorry, but that these adds were racist is the last thing I would have thought about. Would you also have thought about this if this would have been a japanese add with only japanese looking people? Probably not. And that's what is pissing me off. I love my country and this country isn't a Nazi country anymore like some people who haven't got the fact that the war is over since a few years now, might think.
Of course we have fewer blacks here than you have, but you probably know the reason: Because Americans "imported" them as slaves. Nothing to be very proud of, isn't it? So most germans are white, and yeah, guess what, german engineers are mostly white, too. So that's probably the reason why all people in this add are white. Got it?
Actually, I thought the ads were using sterotypical "Germans." I don't think it was racist, but definitely playing on sterotypes.
Of course, I find that type of humor pretty funny, so I liked the commercials. :thumbsup:
Quote from: pommes-t on December 11, 2006, 11:37:35 AM
Sorry, but that these adds were racist is the last thing I would have thought about. Would you also have thought about this if this would have been a japanese add with only japanese looking people? Probably not. And that's what is pissing me off. I love my country and this country isn't a Nazi country anymore like some people who haven't got the fact that the war is over since a few years now, might think.
Of course we have fewer blacks here than you have, but you probably know the reason: Because Americans "imported" them as slaves. Nothing to be very proud of, isn't it? So most germans are white, and yeah, guess what, german engineers are mostly white, too. So that's probably the reason why all people in this add are white. Got it?
You have a right to be annoyed or whatever. But I also have a right to say what I am thinking too. And we all have sore spots in our country/religion/race histories. Unfortunately VW was involved with Nazi controlled Germany, so they have to live with that past. Actually- i was just thinking of another current world auto brand that is linked so closely with a past political party. I can't think of any.
It was a silly tangent- I spoke my mind. If you want to continue dwelling on that- then that is your right. Just don't be offended if I don't give a darn. :tounge:
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 11:33:11 AM
I always loved hanging out at Starbucks, listening to young people complain about the ridiculous price of gas while sipping 4$ cups of dirty water with frothed cow milk. :huh:
I'm disgusted by it. Dreams of douches ordering a mochafrappacappacrapucino latt? grande venti things haunt me.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:41:42 AM
Actually, I thought the ads were using sterotypical "Germans." I don't think it was racist, but definitely playing on sterotypes.
Of course, I find that type of humor pretty funny, so I liked the commercials.? :thumbsup:
Yeah, that's what I mean- Stereotypical germans are white. That's a matter of fact. Of course here are immigrants from all over the world, but only maybe 10 percent. Just like the 10 percent germans who don't speak such a funny english, they were simply left out of that add! ;)
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 11:45:02 AM
You have a right to be annoyed or whatever. But I also have a right to say what I am thinking too. And we all have sore spots in our country/religion/race histories. Unfortunately VW was involved with Nazi controlled Germany, so they have to live with that past. Actually- i was just thinking of another current world auto brand that is linked so closely with a past political party. I can't think of any.
It was a silly tangent- I spoke my mind. If you want to continue dwelling on that- then that is your right. Just don't be offended if I don't give a darn. :tounge:
Ford was also a well known Nazi! And as someone has pointed out in this thread. The bug was developed by KDF, which indeed was a Nazi organisation. The Brits helped to build the bug after the war.
BTW: Do you think I give a shit on the Autobahn, that Hitler gave the order to build them first?
Quote from: pommes-t on December 11, 2006, 11:49:07 AM
Ford was also a well known Nazi! And as someone has pointed out in this thread. The bug was developed by KDF, which indeed was a Nazi organisation. The Brits helped to build the bug after the war.
BTW: Do you think I give a shit on the Autobahn, that Hitler gave the order to build them first?
For a topic you don't give a shit about, you sure seem overly sensitive. :huh:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:11:03 AM
Regarding the iPod, I actually think that is funny. Mac's are certainly "trendy" and VW absolutely tries to be (though I am not sure they succeed, outside of the interweb I have never met anyone that bought a VW because they thought it was "cool"). Raza has certainly made fun of me before because I do own a VW, I do own a Mac (though not an iPod yet :P ), and I do like to stop at Starbucks for coffee on a regular basis. :nono:
:lol:
Congratulations, you're the new typical Volkswagen owner.
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 11:33:11 AM
Seriously though- you can get regular coffee at Starbucks for normal prices. We don't have a Starbucks in my town- we are cool enough. :P
They'll find you. :mask: I don't care if your "town" is a base camp on the north slope of K2, Starbucks will not rest until they have at least two franchised loactions a block away from each other in your neighborhood.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:11:03 AM
I have never met anyone that bought a VW because they thought it was "cool"
Hang out with some more yuppies!
Quote from: BRealistic on December 11, 2006, 12:02:18 PM
For a topic you don't give a shit about, you sure seem overly sensitive. :huh:
You haven't understood one single thing... :banghead:
Quote from: pommes-t on December 11, 2006, 12:14:09 PM
You haven't understood one single thing... :banghead:
Ok- fair enough. I'll listen.
What exactly is your point?
Quote from: 93JC on December 11, 2006, 11:23:54 AM
You yuppie douchebag...? :pee:
(:lol:)
Did I mention that the vast majority of furniture in my apartment is from Ikea? :cheers:
:lol:
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 11, 2006, 12:04:36 PM
Congratulations, you're the new typical Volkswagen owner.
I'm still trying to figure out the "posting style" comment.
BTW, I think I am closer to a hippie than a yuppie. My avatar is not that far off from how I look, except I can't grow my beard that long (haven't shaved in over a week and I look like I have five o'clock shadow? :banghead: ).
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 01:38:27 PM
I'm still trying to figure out the "posting style" comment.
For a second there this was starting to look like a nother stupid C&D debate.
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 11, 2006, 12:08:30 PM
They'll find you. :mask:? I don't care if your "town" is a base camp on the north slope of K2, Starbucks will not rest until they have at least two franchised loactions a block away from each other in your neighborhood.
I wish i had a Starbucks that close. There's 3 and they're all 10-15minutes away.
Yeah, I have to drive an hour to get to a Starbucks. No matter, because I generally just stick with actual coffee (beans and water, without chocolate and flavor shots and all that other bs) and there are enough places to get a good cup around here.
I love how every VW thread leads to a discussion about hippies, SJGTI being one, Starbucks, and peoples coffe preferences :lol:
Quote from: The Pirate on December 11, 2006, 09:33:59 PM
Yeah, I have to drive an hour to get to a Starbucks.? No matter, because I generally just stick with actual coffee (beans and water, without chocolate and flavor shots and all that other bs) and there are enough places to get a good cup around here.
I hate coffee but i love their White Chocolate Mocha :praise:
I love the Caramel Frappuchino there.
I like the Vanilla Bean Frappacino. But, however, I absolutely REFUSE to refer to sizes in their "Starbucks language." It's SMALL, MEDIUM, or LARGE!
i hate coffee
Black- no cream- no sugar. You know - the way men drink coffee not some sissy boy hot cocoa.
Quote from: rohan on December 11, 2006, 11:27:02 PM
Black- no cream- no sugar.? You know - the way men drink coffee not some sissy boy hot cocoa.
Thats the way my dad drinks it. Tastes like piss.
I actually drink Wawa coffee more than Starbucks coffee. My routine with starbucks was to grab a grande white mocha before I went to class (since there was one right between the parking garage and building my classes are in).
Wawa coffee is really good IMHO.
I was a big fan of Tim Horton's when I was in Montreal, but Wawa is better. :rockon:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 12, 2006, 06:38:52 AM
I actually drink Wawa coffee more than Starbucks coffee. My routine with starbucks was to grab a grande white mocha before I went to class (since there was one right between the parking garage and building my classes are in).
Wawa coffee is really good IMHO.
I was a big fan of Tim Horton's when I was in Montreal, but Wawa is better. :rockon:
I generally take a venti White Chocolate Mocha Frap at Starbucks... btu lately I've taken to the Iced Cappuccino with a shot of French Vanilla. It's equally great-tasting at half the price of Starbucks. Also, Tim Horton's doesn't take credit or debit card... so I'm forced to use Starbucks whne I don't have any cash on me or in my car.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 12, 2006, 06:51:19 AM
I generally take a venti White Chocolate Mocha Frap at Starbucks... btu lately I've taken to the Iced Cappuccino with a shot of French Vanilla.
Sounds to me like you generally take it up the ass.
QuoteAlso, Tim Horton's doesn't take credit or debit card... so I'm forced to use Starbucks whne I don't have any cash on me or in my car.
:confused:
Tim Hortons doesn't take debit or credit? What kind of ghetto do you live in anyway?
Quote from: 93JC on December 12, 2006, 07:57:59 AM
Sounds to me like you generally take it up the ass.
:confused:
Tim Hortons doesn't take debit or credit? What kind of ghetto do you live in anyway?
Ouch!!! :confused:
:lol:
Quote from: TurboDan on December 11, 2006, 11:13:49 PM
I like the Vanilla Bean Frappacino. But, however, I absolutely REFUSE to refer to sizes in their "Starbucks language." It's SMALL, MEDIUM, or LARGE!
I've been to several Starbucks where the employees themselves don't even understand the sizing. I've ordered a venti before, and they are looking at the menu with a confused expression. That's just bad.
So yeah, I go with small, medium, and large now too.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 11, 2006, 11:11:03 AM
Regarding the iPod, I actually think that is funny. Mac's are certainly "trendy" and VW absolutely tries to be (though I am not sure they succeed, outside of the interweb I have never met anyone that bought a VW because they thought it was "cool"). Raza has certainly made fun of me before because I do own a VW, I do own a Mac (though not an iPod yet :P ), and I do like to stop at Starbucks for coffee on a regular basis. :nono:
:lol:
You also have long hair. Hippie!
But Starbucks, really? We have fair trade coffee shops on campus, and even they are cheaper than Starbucks. That said, I have hit a Starbucks now and then. Four, maybe five times, I think. Maybe a little more. I was with a girl for a while who loved the place, so we would go there sometimes. She always had a drink with whipped cream and and a straw, and I'd usually get a coffee. If it were a Friday and I was awfully tired, I'd ask them to dump a shot of espresso in there. That is the one thing I do like. It's like extra strong coffee. But the fair trade shops do that too.
Quote from: 93JC on December 12, 2006, 07:57:59 AM
Sounds to me like you generally take it up the ass.
:confused:
Tim Hortons doesn't take debit or credit? What kind of ghetto do you live in anyway?
Tim Hortons has recently introduced a new "fast service motto" in Ontario... which includes not taking the time to go through debit/credit machines.
I live in a pretty nice part of Toronto actually so not a ghetto ;)
Quote from: rohan on December 11, 2006, 11:27:02 PM
Black- no cream- no sugar. You know - the way men drink coffee not some sissy boy hot cocoa.
I used to drink it without cream for the longest time, and then black, and then we had Splenda arrive on the market.
Also, Ikea rocks!
On top of that; Wawa.... :rockon:
Quote from: Raza on December 12, 2006, 08:57:41 AM
Also, Ikea rocks!
well, there's one thing we agree on.
Alas, no Wawa here. oh well.
Maybe i should try another kind of Frap. at Starbucks for once....
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 12, 2006, 08:49:49 AM
Tim Hortons has recently introduced a new "fast service motto" in Ontario... which includes not taking the time to go through debit/credit machines.
I live in a pretty nice part of Toronto actually so not a ghetto ;)
Well, I don't understand why you wouldn't just pay cash anyway. What's the most you're going to spend on Timmy-Ho's: five bucks? Ten?
You might as well just go to a bank machine and get a twenty beforehand. There's got to be bank machines all over the place in Toronto. I don't have to walk further than a couple blocks from work or home to find a bank machine.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 12, 2006, 10:18:59 AM
well, there's one thing we agree on.
Alas, no Wawa here. oh well.
I'm in the middle of Pennsylvania right now, so there's no Wawa here, either. :(
Quote from: Raza on December 12, 2006, 10:45:26 AM
I'm in the middle of Pennsylvania right now, so there's no Wawa here, either.? ?:(
That sucks.
I do recall missing Wawa when I was at Rutgers. They may have existed somewhere in that general area, but none were actually near campus (and I only drove my car on weekends or on very rare occasions...).
Back to work.
http://limpies.milten.lima-city.de/antivw/funnystuff.htm
:devil:
Quote from: sandertheshark on December 12, 2006, 12:21:00 PM
Back to work.
http://limpies.milten.lima-city.de/antivw/funnystuff.htm
:devil:
You suck!!!
My GTI will pwn your 335i. :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 12, 2006, 12:18:08 PM
That sucks.
I do recall missing Wawa when I was at Rutgers. They may have existed somewhere in that general area, but none were actually near campus (and I only drove my car on weekends or on very rare occasions...).
There was a Wawa right by Atco Raceway, as I recall. They get flooded after the races let out, since everyone goes there to fill up.
A beer in the morning. A shot of whiskey at noon. And a pint of moonshine at dinner. Finally, AA afterwards. and say "Take me drunk, I'm home."
Nah, I'd rather have water.
What's this anti-VW rant. VW's are great cars. I just don't like any of them because they're made somewhere else usually by a foreign manufacture. Sometimes they break down and won't start. But really a safe vehicle is one that can't get in an accident anyway. Right??
Quote from: sparkplug on December 12, 2006, 09:32:57 PM
A beer in the morning. A shot of whiskey at noon. And a pint of moonshine at dinner. Finally, AA afterwards. and say "Take me drunk, I'm home."
Okay. :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 12, 2006, 12:18:08 PM
That sucks.
I do recall missing Wawa when I was at Rutgers. They may have existed somewhere in that general area, but none were actually near campus (and I only drove my car on weekends or on very rare occasions...).
Wawa is expanding. I used to only see them down by Long Beach Island. There are now quite a few in Monmouth County. I was told the heroes/subs/hoagies they sell there are pretty good.
Lets get back on topic here.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 29, 2006, 10:03:04 AM
Lets get back on topic here.
My GTI wil pwn your MS6 biotch!!!!
Wawa hoagies aren't anything special, but they are relatively good for being in a convenience store.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 29, 2006, 10:03:04 AM
Lets get back on topic here.
LOL
I cannot mess with any VWs beyond the A3 Jetta/Golf...except maaayyyyybe for the 1.8t pre-facelift B5 Passat.