http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=34&article_id=4444
0-60 in 4.9 seconds??????? With an automatic????????? That's M3 territory!!! And that's no fluke, I've seen several videos of the IS running a 13.4-13.6s 1/4 mile! It's obvious it has the straight line advantage over everything bar (heh heh) the 335i...but I was unsure about its lateral dynamics. It's definitely making a strong case for automatic transmissions...
Thoughts??? I don't know what to think anymore...
The IS350 is still a boring Lexus but it's the least boring of the Lexuses because it's fast as shit. I think the styling is far from boring though.
The IS350 in this comparison was tested going downhill. That explains the fast time. :ohyeah:
Okay Wimmer as much as I hate to compare:
Mercedes C350 [268hp]
(http://images.dealer.com/nctd/06-c350-hero.jpg)
Lexus IS350 [306hp]
(http://www.planetlexus.com/lexus-is250-is350/lexus-is250-is350-front.jpg)
Which one is more interesting-looking? ;)
PS check ur PMs
The Benz looks like a European cab...a mini European cab
I do like the looks of the new IS. Pity you can't get a manual with the 3.5. Kind of kills some of its desireability in my eyes.
Quote from: MX793 on December 26, 2006, 02:26:43 PM
I do like the looks of the new IS. Pity you can't get a manual with the 3.5. Kind of kills some of its desireability in my eyes.
I thought you could get a 6-speed stick?
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 26, 2006, 02:27:15 PM
I thought you could get a 6-speed stick?
Not with the IS350. IS250 offers a stick.
Quote from: MX793 on December 26, 2006, 02:28:37 PM
Not with the IS350. IS250 offers a stick.
Oh i see. My bad.
i like my coworkers IS250... its only some steering feel away from a great car
What didn't they like about the G besides the weak-feeling engine? I still can't believe that the Lexus won the comparo.
I agree :ohyeah:
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 26, 2006, 12:46:16 PM
The IS350 is still a boring Lexus but it's the least boring of the Lexuses because it's fast as shit. I think the styling is far from boring though.
Quote from: the Teuton on December 26, 2006, 03:29:16 PM
What didn't they like about the G besides the weak-feeling engine? I still can't believe that the Lexus won the comparo.
The G's fault was that it didn't stand out in anyway. It was a "middle of the road" effort with no glaring faults or stand-out strengths.
Quote from: MX793 on December 26, 2006, 03:39:21 PM
The G's fault was that it didn't stand out in anyway. It was a "middle of the road" effort with no glaring faults or stand-out strengths.
Isn't that how the Camry wins comparos? Just asking...
Quote from: MX793 on December 26, 2006, 02:26:43 PM
I do like the looks of the new IS. Pity you can't get a manual with the 3.5. Kind of kills some of its desireability in my eyes.
Man, this is a 13 second car. IMO stickshift should only be relegated to slower cars...I'd rather enjoy the torque than risk a misshift.
I drove the G35x a while back and that car's automatic was great. Tiptronic that held the gears and shifted quickly. If it was RWD it would probably bark the tires on the 1-2 shift. The car wouldn't have been more enjoyable with a manual transmission IMO. Plus in traffic I could just chill. A good automatic or DSG isn't too bad...and it seems like Lexus got the IS's tranny right.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 26, 2006, 02:00:53 PM
Okay Wimmer as much as I hate to compare:
Mercedes C350 [268hp]
(http://images.dealer.com/nctd/06-c350-hero.jpg)
Lexus IS350 [306hp]
(http://www.planetlexus.com/lexus-is250-is350/lexus-is250-is350-front.jpg)
Which one is more interesting-looking? ;)
PS check ur PMs
The C-class is much better looking.
As far as the 0-60 time for the IS goes i'm a bit skeptical. Having driven alot of IS350's they really don't feel any faster than my Z.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 26, 2006, 04:40:08 PM
Man, this is a 13 second car. IMO stickshift should only be relegated to slower cars...I'd rather enjoy the torque than risk a misshift.
I drove the G35x a while back and that car's automatic was great. Tiptronic that held the gears and shifted quickly. If it was RWD it would probably bark the tires on the 1-2 shift. The car wouldn't have been more enjoyable with a manual transmission IMO. Plus in traffic I could just chill. A good automatic or DSG isn't too bad...and it seems like Lexus got the IS's tranny right.
It's not about the speed for me. It's very apparent Toyota got this auto right by looking at the numbers. But I don't care how quick it is with an auto, I prefer a manual. It's what I'm used to and most comfortable with. I've been driving manuals regularly since I was about 9 years old and most vehicles I've had seat time with have had manual gearboxes. I'm so used to having to use a clutch and change my own gears that I find it awkward when the clutch pedal is missing.
Convenience is a non-issue for me. You don't see gridlocked traffic much where I live and stop-and-go with a clutch hasn't bothered me yet (did a lot of it when I ran the forklift at my last job). A manual clutch is, IMO, superior in the snow. Seems you have finer control over how much power you're putting down when trying to rock out of a snowy parking space or get moving on a slick surface than you do with a torque converter (at least without the aid of TCS). I've yet to drive a vehicle with an automated clutch, but I don't see how it would provide the same degree of control when launching on slick surfaces.
Quote from: MX793 on December 26, 2006, 06:32:42 PM
Convenience is a non-issue for me. You don't see gridlocked traffic much where I live and stop-and-go with a clutch hasn't bothered me yet (did a lot of it when I ran the forklift at my last job). A manual clutch is, IMO, superior in the snow. Seems you have finer control over how much power you're putting down when trying to rock out of a snowy parking space or get moving on a slick surface than you do with a torque converter (at least without the aid of TCS). I've yet to drive a vehicle with an automated clutch, but I don't see how it would provide the same degree of control when launching on slick surfaces.
You make some valid points. I guess geography is a key factor. For somewhere like LA, an automatic RWD car w/no TCS would be fine, but hell in NYC. However on slippery surfaces, w/o TCS even a stick is hard to modulate...not to mention, probably a little scary at speed. My friend w/the S2000 says the car is useless in the snow. I have no problems w/my car even with all-season tires.
And I guess auto vs. stick is a preference. I have to drive a very fast car w/a manual transmission...but in my experience, slower cars are more fun with stickshift, and fast cars are fast with automatics. But that's primarily for racing. There aren't too many winding roads in the NYC metro area.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 26, 2006, 02:00:53 PM
Okay Wimmer as much as I hate to compare:
Mercedes C350 [268hp]
(http://images.dealer.com/nctd/06-c350-hero.jpg)
Lexus IS350 [306hp]
(http://www.planetlexus.com/lexus-is250-is350/lexus-is250-is350-front.jpg)
Which one is more interesting-looking? ;)
PS check ur PMs
I'm not a fan of the IS style. IMO, it tries to hard to look cool and just looks like a fat little kid. :ohyeah:
The C-Class is pretty boring too, but it's not as porky looking as the IS. :rockon:
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 26, 2006, 06:55:40 PM
You make some valid points. I guess geography is a key factor. For somewhere like LA, an automatic RWD car w/no TCS would be fine, but hell in NYC. However on slippery surfaces, w/o TCS even a stick is hard to modulate...not to mention, probably a little scary at speed. My friend w/the S2000 says the car is useless in the snow. I have no problems w/my car even with all-season tires.
An S2000 is useless in the snow? Is he running it with summer tires? I don't see how it would be that bad with all seasons or snow tires. A Corvette or something, sure, but I just don't see an S2000 being all that unweildy. I drove my 240SX through several Upstate NY winters (really snowy) with just all-season tires and no driving aids whatsoever. That car put out roughly as much thrust to the wheels in 1st gear as a stock S2000 at lower RPMs and speeds. It was even an open-diff, so you only had as much traction as the rear wheel with the least grip. Didn't have as much forward traction as my FWD, but I wouldn't call it useless. Did prove to be a bit harry at times and challenging on hills, but I never got stuck and never augered into a ditch or the snowbanks.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 26, 2006, 12:46:16 PM
The IS350 is still a boring Lexus but it's the least boring of the Lexuses because it's fast as shit. I think the styling is far from boring though.
Then how is it boring? :lol:
Quote from: Maxxum on December 26, 2006, 11:17:11 PM
Then how is it boring? :lol:
It has no handling... no feel... I'm hoping to drive a 350 tomorrow though; I've only driven a 250 before. :rockon:
Where's the 335i to kick their asses?
Quote from: 850CSi on December 27, 2006, 12:00:43 AM
Where's the 335i to kick their asses?
:praise:
Maybe there's another explaination for the truly incredible 0-60 time: American set up. I mean European cars also have American set ups but maybe Lexus does this more aggressively. I the last Auto-Motor-und-Sport they had a break-test where the LExus GS scored average-bad. But last year it got the worst possible score. They explained that they had changed they didn't have a Euro-break set up yet. In other words: Lexus aims completely on the American market, so it might also use a completely American set up. hmmm. Writing this I realize that this is a shitty explaination since most of you are Americans and wonder about this too... :huh:
Forget about it! :partyon:
Quote from: 850CSi on December 27, 2006, 12:00:43 AM
Where's the 335i to kick, rape, brutalize, terminate, erradicate, bang, kill, whoop, bitchslap, destroy, boom-boom, beat, spank their asses?
Fixed it for you. :ohyeah:
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 26, 2006, 02:21:34 PM
The Benz looks like a European cab...a mini European cab
Like this? :devil:
(http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/8483/pc130089ke6.jpg)
Quote from: 850CSi on December 27, 2006, 12:00:43 AM
Where's the 335i to kick their asses?
I think the comparo was Japanese sedans only. You'll note the lack of several other entries in the class as well (A4, C class, CTS).
Quote from: MX793 on December 27, 2006, 09:14:24 AM
I think the comparo was Japanese sedans only.? You'll note the lack of several other entries in the class as well (A4, C class, CTS).
Ah, yes. Stupid me.
I was wondering how the IS350 could win any sports sedan comparo with BMWs or other european cars out there but I guess since this is a Japanese sports sedan comparo, it made sense. I mean, the IS350 is neither sporty nor does it make a good Sedan with the cramped back seat. So how can it be a good sports sedan??? Sure it's fast in a straight line but that doesn't make it sporty, it's just quick...
Quote from: gasoline on December 26, 2006, 04:06:16 PM
Isn't that how the Camry wins comparos? Just asking...
Good question. :lol:
Quote from: gasoline on December 26, 2006, 04:06:16 PM
Isn't that how the Camry wins comparos? Just asking...
I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a Camry win a comparo. The last two comparos in C&D that had a Camry put the car in 4th (and one of the comparos only had 4 cars). MotorTrend's last comparo with a Camry put the car in 4th out of 4, behind even a Chevy Malibu.
Quote from: MX793 on December 27, 2006, 03:27:30 PM
I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a Camry win a comparo.? The last two comparos in C&D that had a Camry put the car in 4th (and one of the comparos only had 4 cars).? MotorTrend's last comparo with a Camry put the car in 4th out of 4, behind even a Chevy Malibu.
Has it EVER won a comparo??...
anyone going to mention that the G35 finished LAST... old ass Acura handed it to them both... :rockon:
Quote from: YO on December 28, 2006, 09:06:10 AM
anyone going to mention that the G35 finished LAST... old ass Acura handed it to them both... :rockon:
Handed it to them both? The Lexus won.
Quote from: YO on December 28, 2006, 09:06:10 AM
anyone going to mention that the G35 finished LAST... old ass Acura handed it to them both... :rockon:
been doing too much :partyon: lately? :confused:
I would buy the G35 out of that bunch.
Quote from: r0tor on December 28, 2006, 01:43:48 PM
been doing too much? :partyon: lately?? ?:confused:
well we know for sure that the G35 finished last... no mention of who won though...
Quote from: YO on December 28, 2006, 06:34:19 PM
well we know for sure that the G35 finished last... no mention of who won though...
In case you missed it, the title of the thread is
IS350 wins sports sedan comparo
Quote from: YO on December 28, 2006, 06:34:19 PM
well we know for sure that the G35 finished last... no mention of who won though...
:confused: What are you smoking? Read the thread title!
[damn...beaten by MX793]
Quote from: 850CSi on December 27, 2006, 12:00:43 AM
Where's the 335i to kick their asses?
:rockon: :praise:
where is it ever mentioned in the video that the IS350 won?? It probably did, but I didn't hear about it in that video.
I can't say I'd choose an IS over a 3er or A4, but it is my favorite Japanese sport sedan as well. I drove an IS250 AWD and, while it wasn't overtly sporty, it was pretty fun to drive.
Quote from: YO on December 29, 2006, 07:48:22 AM
where is it ever mentioned in the video that the IS350 won?? It probably did, but I didn't hear about it in that video.
The cars were presented in reverse finishing order, just like how they do it in the magazine.
3) G35
2) TL-S
1) IS350
Quote from: MX793 on December 29, 2006, 09:19:18 AM
The cars were presented in reverse finishing order, just like how they do it in the magazine.
3) G35
2) TL-S
1) IS350
.. i don't know...factor in that the IS does not offer a manual... has less toys then the TL...is the size of a Civic...
and the fact that last years TL already outhandled the IS in a head to head, now with improved handling and steering in the Type S.... plus a back seat for adults, I wouldn't be surprised to see the TL pull this off...
Quote from: YO on December 29, 2006, 11:22:10 AM
.. i don't know...factor in that the IS does not offer a manual... has less toys then the TL...is the size of a Civic...
and the fact that last years TL already outhandled the IS in a head to head, now with improved handling and steering in the Type S.... plus a back seat for adults, I wouldn't be surprised to see the TL pull this off...
Troll :rolleyes:
I always thought that the TL was a bit larger and the TSX would compete better in this crowd; but I guess I'm wrong. I guess that if a larger, supposedly more capable car can get its ass handed to it by Lexus then the TSX wouldn't even stand a chance. Freaking Honda... they can't seem to do anything right these days.
Quote from: YO on December 29, 2006, 11:22:10 AM
.. i don't know...factor in that the IS does not offer a manual... has less toys then the TL...is the size of a Civic...
and the fact that last years TL already outhandled the IS in a head to head, now with improved handling and steering in the Type S.... plus a back seat for adults, I wouldn't be surprised to see the TL pull this off...
You're just angry the Honda didn't win...aren't you? :devil: :ohyeah:
I personally like that the IS is staying small in size and not becomming a whale like the G35 :huh:
IS isn't all that small. Smaller than it's curreent competition though. The previous generation was a little too small to be a comfy sedan actually.
However, I agree with SJ, it's the most desirable Japanese compact sports sedan. Haven't driven the new G though.
Quote from: red_shift on December 29, 2006, 01:53:10 PM
IS isn't all that small. Smaller than it's curreent competition though. The previous generation was a little too small to be a comfy sedan actually.
However, I agree with SJ, it's the most desirable Japanese compact sports sedan. Haven't driven the new G though.
And despite being a bit smaller, the IS is actually a bit heavier than the automatic G35.
Quote from: YO on December 29, 2006, 11:22:10 AM
.. i don't know...factor in that the IS does not offer a manual... has less toys then the TL...is the size of a Civic...
and the fact that last years TL already outhandled the IS in a head to head, now with improved handling and steering in the Type S.... plus a back seat for adults, I wouldn't be surprised to see? the TL pull this off...
The TL may have more grip but that doesn't make it a better handler. Not to mention FWD isn't exactly ideal for a sports sedan :ohyeah: :ohyeah:
Quote from: MX793 on December 29, 2006, 01:54:28 PM
And despite being a bit smaller, the IS is actually a bit heavier than the automatic G35.
its still the size of the M35, 5er, A6, ect... its too big
Quote from: r0tor on December 29, 2006, 05:51:14 PM
its still the size of the M35, 5er, A6, ect... its too big
The G is actually sort of an in-betweener size-wise and it is on the larger side of the entry-lux segment. It's on the lower end of the midsize segment while the IS and 3er are on the upper end of compact. The size difference between the G and the IS is nearly the same as the size difference between the G and the A6, so I'm not sure how you can say the G is the same size as the middle Audi. The M35 is a smidge smaller than the A6, but still nearly half a foot longer than the G (and hugely bigger inside).
Quote from: Submariner on December 29, 2006, 11:26:18 AM
You're just angry the Honda didn't win...aren't you?? :devil: :ohyeah:
yeah right... Honda ALWAYS wins!!? :rockon: :tounge:
I thought the TL was the class above? As the TSX is just a rebadged Accord (which is 3 Series/A4 size) and the TL is bigger, right?
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on December 29, 2006, 06:25:49 PM
I thought the TL was the class above?? As the TSX is just a rebadged Accord (which is 3 Series/A4 size) and the TL is bigger, right?
I agree... the ES350 would be the appropriate representative...
Yo, speaking from experience:
THE TL IS SHIT. ANY MORON CAN PUT A LARGE ENGINE AN AN ACCORD AND GIVE IT A FANCY NAME. I DOUBT IT COULD OUTHANDLE A VW RABBIT. STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT AN ACCORD IS BETTER THAN A G35 OR IS (wait, why am I sticking up for Lexus? :huh:).
The thing isn't even made well, and the torque steer was a BITCH man.
Disclaimer: Maybe the TL is more fun than the IS because of the defeatable stability control and 6MT, but the fact still remains, and knowing Honda, will always remain: It's an Accord with a cool radio and interior and a bigger engine (the engine ain't bad, actually), which makes it FWD, and high power+FWD= :banghead:
So, therefore.... :pee: TL
One more thing: The TL never outhandled an IS300. A TSX could not outhandle an IS300. No Honda save the S2K and the NSX could outhandle an IS300. The IS300 was an awesome handling little car. That was one Lexus, with the previous gen SC, and the 1st & 2nd gen LS that I like.
If you hate it so much, why did you get one?
Sounded good from the start. Why do you think I didn't buy it over or lease another one? ;)
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 11:10:57 AM
Yo, speaking from experience:
THE TL IS SHIT. ANY MORON CAN PUT A LARGE ENGINE AN AN ACCORD AND GIVE IT A FANCY NAME. I DOUBT IT COULD OUTHANDLE A VW RABBIT. STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT AN ACCORD IS BETTER THAN A G35 OR IS (wait, why am I sticking up for Lexus? :huh:).
The thing isn't even made well, and the torque steer was a BITCH man.
Disclaimer: Maybe the TL is more fun than the IS because of the defeatable stability control and 6MT, but the fact still remains, and knowing Honda, will always remain: It's an Accord with a cool radio and interior and a bigger engine (the engine ain't bad, actually), which makes it FWD, and high power+FWD= :banghead:
So, therefore.... :pee: TL
yes.... the TL is hampered by poor quality and tremendous torque steer.... yeah right.? November 2005 Car and Driver, the pos, FWD TL out slalomed, out G'd the 330, IS350, G35, and the rest and out accellerate all but the IS... how is that possible. How does a FWD, 4 cylinder TSX beat out RWD Beemers and Benzs on the Touring Car Circuit???? THe haters will always hate. I guess it's like being a jew at Christmas.
And to top it off, you suggest that it's Americas most awarded car ever with a big engine. Which just won ANOTHER head to head...I'll take that too....
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 11:19:24 AM
yes.... the TL is hampered by poor quality and tremendous torque steer.... yeah right. November 2005 Car and Driver, the pos, FWD TL out slalomed, out G'd the 330, IS350, G35, and the rest and out accellerate all but the IS... how is that possible. How does a FWD, 4 cylinder TSX beat out RWD Beemers and Benzs on the Touring Car Circuit??? THe haters will always hate. I guess it's like being a jew at Christmas.
And to top it off, you suggest that it's Americas most awarded car ever with a big engine. Which just won ANOTHER head to head...I'll take that too....
With a 6MT, you don't think torque steer is a problem? :nutty:
Those auto awards are based on nothing but statistics. Why do you think the Lexus ES is also an award winner? BTW, I saw the R&T at the newsstand.
The order was:
1. Lexus IS
2. TL
3. G35
Please fill me in on any head to heads that the TL has won.
I would've taken them like this:
1. G35 (I wouldn't even consider the rest)
2. Maybe the TL (because of 6MT)
3. IS (Lack of 6MT)
I owned one for 3 years, buddy. ;)
By the way, I don't think I'm the only unhappy Accord owner on the block.
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 11:25:21 AM
With a 6MT, you don't think torque steer is a problem?? :nutty:
Those auto awards are based on nothing but statistics. Why do you think the Lexus ES is also an award winner? BTW, I saw the R&T at the newsstand.
The order was:
1. Lexus IS
2. TL
3. G35
Please fill me in on any head to heads that the TL has won.
I would've taken them like this:
1. G35 (I wouldn't even consider the rest)
2. Maybe the TL (because of 6MT)
3. IS (Lack of 6MT)
I owned one for 3 years, buddy.? ;)
let me know when you get your own magazine...
when has an ES ever won a head to head. And yes, the TL and TSX out handle the IS
by the way...
..what were the zero to sixty for the TL and G35?
Yo... get off Ro51092's case. He actually has a valid point... yours is just worthless trolling. He's used this car for 3 years and actually has enough experience to speak. He's also owned the A4, which is another competitor in this segment.
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 11:56:22 AM
let me know when you get your own magazine...
Let me know when you stop peddling lawn mowers.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on December 30, 2006, 11:58:45 AM
Yo... get off Ro51092's case. He actually has a valid point... yours is just worthless trolling. He's used this car for 3 years and actually has enough experience to speak. He's also owned the A4, which is another competitor in this segment.
sorry... I work for Acura and have worked for Lexus... that every day experience I get has no meaning...
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 12:00:44 PM
sorry... I work for Acura and have worked for Lexus... that every day experience I get has no meaning...
You don't OWN a TL, do you? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 12:02:51 PM
You don't OWN a TL, do you? Yeah, that's what I thought.
no... I just drive one whenever I want. Just took a Type S on a thousand mile trip. I get a work demo. I put 5500 miles on every TL I drive. I just retired my Type S for an MDX.
This year I bought over 100 04-05 TLs at auction. I see all the reports and service bullitons on all our vehicles and all the vehicles in the district. One of my ex employees is the asst Service Manager at a Lexus dealer and I'n on top of that. No... I have no clue...
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 12:13:24 PM
no... I just drive one whenever I want. Just took a Type S on a thousand mile trip. I get a work demo. I put 5500 miles on every TL I drive. I just retired my Type S for an MDX.
This year I bought over 100 04-05 TLs at auction. I see all the reports and service bullitons on all our vehicles and all the vehicles in the district. One of my ex employees is the asst Service Manager at a Lexus dealer and I'n on top of that. No... I have no clue...
Great, but you still don't own one, and haven't seen it's day-to-day problems.
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 12:14:56 PM
Great, but you still don't own one, and haven't seen it's day-to-day problems.
... you're right... running an Acura dealer for 3 years...having thousands of people, friends and family driving them, does me no good. Knowing every service bullitan and seeing EVERY customer complaint is irrelevent...I have no clue.
You bought a lemon. BIG DEAL. It happens. But the TL is always a top seller... has been Consumer Reports #1 Upscale Sedan since the redesign and like all the magazines say, it would be the best if it were simlply RWD. It is the most comfortalble most well put together inthat class.
Sour grapes doesn't doesn't substitute intelligence. Give it a break.
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 12:44:31 PM
... you're right... running an Acura dealer for 3 years...having thousands of people, friends and family driving them, does me no good. Knowing every service bullitan and seeing EVERY customer complaint is irrelevent...I have no clue.?
You bought a lemon. BIG DEAL. It happens. But the TL is always a top seller... has been Consumer Reports #1 Upscale Sedan since the redesign and like all the magazines say, it would be the best if it were simlply RWD.? It is the most comfortalble most well put together inthat class.
Sour grapes doesn't doesn't substitute intelligence. Give it a break.
You can't say "This car would be the best...if it was RWD." The car, if RWD, would be entirely different. You just cannot say it would be the best.
Plus, Yo, your track record on valuable vehicle reviews is among the worst of the forum, next to Kayani.
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on December 30, 2006, 01:20:57 PM
You can't say "This car would be the best...if it was RWD." The car, if RWD, would be entirely different. You just cannot say it would be the best.
Plus, Yo, your track record on valuable vehicle reviews is among the worst of the forum, next to Kayani.
...yeah... people never like hearing the facts...
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 01:54:29 PM
...yeah... people never like hearing the facts...
Any dipshit can read a fact sheet. Actually owning one really means something.
Actions speak louder than words. Remember that.
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on December 30, 2006, 01:20:57 PM
You can't say "This car would be the best...if it was RWD." The car, if RWD, would be entirely different. You just cannot say it would be the best.
Plus, Yo, your track record on valuable vehicle reviews is among the worst of the forum, next to Kayani.
LOL, the guy is an ACURA SALESMAN, lol.
The only things I can give the TL (on paper anyway) are a much more efficient use of space. Honestly IMO the TL is closer to something like an ES or Avalon than these actual sports sedans. With a good set of shocks/springs and tires ANY car can outhandle any of these cars...
But ultimately, with FWD, things get to a point where you have to make the choice between turning and steering. The polar moment of inertia will always be higher than a comparable RWD model. If you keep adding power, torque steer will become an issue. The TL is not a bad car, but comparing it to something like a G35 seems silly to me.
And as far as the G35's size, it's a "4-series". I actually wish there were more cars it size, as for me it's perfect.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 30, 2006, 01:57:47 PM
LOL, the guy is an ACURA SALESMAN, lol.
The only things I can give the TL (on paper anyway) are a much more efficient use of space. Honestly IMO the TL is closer to something like an ES or Avalon than these actual sports sedans. With a good set of shocks/springs and tires ANY car can outhandle any of these cars...
But ultimately, with FWD, things get to a point where you have to make the choice between turning and steering. The polar moment of inertia will always be higher than a comparable RWD model. If you keep adding power, torque steer will become an issue. The TL is not a bad car, but comparing it to something like a G35 seems silly to me.
And as far as the G35's size, it's a "4-series". I actually wish there were more cars it size, as for me it's perfect.
again. Facts are facts.? The TL is quicker to sixty than all but the IS350. It gets throught the slalom at a faster speed. It holds more grip.? How can you argue the numbers??
It has the best manual gearbox, the best electronic gadgets and toys... and it just beat a BRAND NEW REDESIGNED CAR...
I just put 5k on a TL Type S. The improvements are awesome.
Just over last years TL its:
Faster
handles better
SMOOTHER (even in the Type S)
quieter (even in the Tyoe S0
Improved on an already great stereo
New transmission gives you 99% control in the automatic
Can downshift to 1st at 30 mph or to 2nd at 63 mph.
Upgraded leather and the best seats in the business
Upgraded nav with bluetooth phonebook link
Cars always improve, and so did the TL...
YO is right on this one.
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 02:37:27 PM
again. Facts are facts. The TL is quicker to sixty than all but the IS350. It gets throught the slalom at a faster speed. It holds more grip. How can you argue the numbers??
It has the best manual gearbox, the best electronic gadgets and toys... and it just beat a BRAND NEW REDESIGNED CAR...
I just put 5k on a TL Type S. The improvements are awesome.
Just over last years TL its:
Faster
handles better
SMOOTHER (even in the Type S)
quieter (even in the Tyoe S0
Improved on an already great stereo
New transmission gives you 99% control in the automatic
Can downshift to 1st at 30 mph or to 2nd at 63 mph.
Upgraded leather and the best seats in the business
Upgraded nav with bluetooth phonebook link
Cars always improve, and so did the TL...
I hope it is. You could feel the Accord in the pre-facelift.
One question, Yo: Why didn't the TL get the all-in-one key that the Accord has? I like the all-in-one style, and mine just had a hanging-off keyfob
Volvo has the best seats in the business hands down, not Acura.
I like BMW's sport seats.
Volvo's seats ain't bad, some of the best in the business. I love my Audi's too.
I happen to like the TL a bunch, and people who can't get over torque steer need to drive a FWD car differently than they would a RWD car. coming from a FWD car that has 280+ lb-ft of torque available low in the RPM's I can tell you all you want to know about torque steer, and for me I don't even notice it. My tires hardly slip anymore, the wheel hardly moves when I accelerate. Just need to be gentle.
When we drove the TL, I thought it hid the fact it was FWD quite well I was actually rather impressed. The interior is also a step up on the G35, along with the radio. The bose system in the G35 is sad.
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 02:49:52 PM
I hope it is. You could feel the Accord in the pre-facelift.
One question, Yo: Why didn't the TL get the all-in-one key that the Accord has? I like the all-in-one style, and mine just had a hanging-off keyfob
the vendor that made the 03 Accord keys at the time couldn't produce the all-in-one key that was compatible with the memory link system in the Acuras.
For 07, all Acuras have the all in one switch blade style key that are memory linked.
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 03:04:46 PM
the vendor that made the 03 Accord keys at the time couldn't produce the all-in-one key that was compatible with the memory link system in the Acuras.
For 07, all Acuras have the all in one switch blade style key that are memory linked.
thanks.
and don't get me wrong... I LOVE the IS250/350. It's beautiful, has nice power with a little too numb steering. But unless you're an enthusiast, it's just too small for most people and families.
My employees never have a problem selling a TL over IS simply over toys, size and price. I think Infiniti missed the target again on the G. It's one of the few cars on the market where the coupe outsells or equals the sedan. The TL already outsells the G Sedan 2 to 1 and the IS has already outsold the G. The interior is a big improvement in the G, but is it enough to bring new buyers... I believe not...
I don't like the IS much, because of the lack of a MT, and overintrusive stability control, and it's heavy and expensive. The TL sounded nice when I got it, but it wasn't too impressive. To me, the G is the best out of the 3. If it was my money, I would go with the BMW 3 instead of these cars. I made that decision about 1.5 months ago with the 3er v. the A4. A wait for a 6MT and the price on the BMW killed the deal, and the Audi was too cheap to pass up, $369 a month and $0 down.
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 02:49:52 PM
I hope it is. You could feel the Accord in the pre-facelift.
One question, Yo: Why didn't the TL get the all-in-one key that the Accord has? I like the all-in-one style, and mine just had a hanging-off keyfob
My parents have the same all-in-one fob for their Accord. Isn't it like $200 to replace?
Quote from: YO on December 30, 2006, 12:44:31 PM
Sour grapes doesn't doesn't substitute intelligence. Give it a break.
Hilarious. I'm sure you'd say the same thing about a Cadillac CTS, right?
Quote from: VetteZ06 on December 30, 2006, 03:48:09 PM
Hilarious. I'm sure you'd say the same thing about a Cadillac CTS, right?
LOL
Quote from: ro51092 on December 30, 2006, 03:50:10 PM
LOL
Hey... the CTS is a nice car, hell the best Cadillac had built in years. It's a little over priced, and the interior makes the old G35 look nice. It drives and handles well...Our neighbor is a Caddy store... we wholesale a lot of Caddy trades to them...
Maybe they should sell the super-duper TL in Europe so we could see what you guys are missing out on!
In order of quickness:
1. 335i
2. IS350
3. G35
4. TL-S
The last 3 are definitely right (based on this comparo), not positive if the 335i will be the fastest but even the 330i was faster than the TL-S is IIRC.
Frankly, the R&T test seemed a little ridiculous, I just read it and they really didn't have much of a reason to put the G35 in last. I can't believe they actually called it slow considering it made it to 60 in 5.4 seconds. The only thing they complained about was the clutch, other than that it seemed to be all praise. I don't know, wish I could drive the cars myself.
Yo, you can't tell what car is the best handling based on a spec sheet, it doesn't work that way, not for street cars anyway.
FWD on that spec sheet doesn't help the cause either
Damn. 5.4 Seconds to 60? That's quick! And that was the slowest?
No, the TL-S was slower (5.7 seconds).
Quote from: Champ on December 30, 2006, 02:59:15 PM
I happen to like the TL a bunch, and people who can't get over torque steer need to drive a FWD car differently than they would a RWD car. coming from a FWD car that has 280+ lb-ft of torque available low in the RPM's I can tell you all you want to know about torque steer, and for me I don't even notice it. My tires hardly slip anymore, the wheel hardly moves when I accelerate. Just need to be gentle.
When we drove the TL, I thought it hid the fact it was FWD quite well I was actually rather impressed. The interior is also a step up on the G35, along with the radio. The bose system in the G35 is sad.
I found the driving in the TL rather numb, and the gearchange not especially good.
Quote from: TBR on December 30, 2006, 08:26:10 PM
In order of quickness:
1. 335i
2. IS350
3. G35
4. TL-S
The last 3 are definitely right (based on this comparo), not positive if the 335i will be the fastest but even the 330i was faster than the TL-S is IIRC.
Frankly, the R&T test seemed a little ridiculous, I just read it and they really didn't have much of a reason to put the G35 in last. I can't believe they actually called it slow considering it made it to 60 in 5.4 seconds. The only thing they complained about was the clutch, other than that it seemed to be all praise. I don't know, wish I could drive the cars myself.
Yo, you can't tell what car is the best handling based on a spec sheet, it doesn't work that way, not for street cars anyway.
I finally read the article in print.
Anyone else notice something interesting? The IS350 had a .5 second lead over the G35 at 60mph, and holds that advantage through the quartermile. Some would see this as evidence of the IS350 being more powerful.
But keep watching the race, because by 120mph the G35 is somehow .3 seconds AHEAD of the IS350. Thats right folks, despite being lacking in low end torque, the G35 makes up for it with some massive top end power.
Since the G35 hasn't made up much ground in the quarter mile, that means the G35 manages to pull a .8 second lead from about 100mph to 120mph. I would attribute this to that 7600rpm redline and those ram air intakes that Infiniti's been crowing about.
At first I was skeptical of those ram air intakes that was supposed to add about 3hp at 60mph. Well this comparo does seem to suggest that the G35 is seriously gaining power as the speedo climbs. Perhaps at 120mph that VQ HR is making 10hp extra? Maybe more?
Thus in terms of acceleration the G35, IS350 and BMW 335 might not be so easy to rank, as each car has its strengths and weaknesses.
This IS350 time is as fast as the times recorded for the BMW 335, around 4.9sec 0-60 and 13.5 in the quarter at 105mph. So these two cars are neck and neck in every way. I think that with so much more torque, that the 335 might be faster at slower speeds and lower RPMS.
The G35 looks to be the sure loser of this race, but seeing it's amazing top end performance win over the IS350 in this comparo suggests that the G35 with its ram air intakes can surpass these cars if the speeds get high enough.
565-
I believe the VQ HR has a ram air effect that does significantly boost top end.
Welcome, 565! That your Z06?
Quote from: Raza on January 01, 2007, 10:44:05 AM
Welcome, 565!? That your Z06?
Yep, or at least until the police take it away from me and lock me up. :lol:
I guess I finally registered here after things at C&D were just getting way too slow. Thank you for the warm welcome. I noticed that very nice Boxster S you just got in that other thread, Congrats.
Quote from: 565 on January 01, 2007, 10:55:10 AM
Yep, or at least until the police take it away from me and lock me up. :lol:
I guess I finally registered here after things at C&D were just getting way too slow. Thank you for the warm welcome. I noticed that very nice Boxster S you just got in that other thread, Congrats.
Thank you! I do believe I remember you from that area of unpleasantness. It's good to have you.
I'd be very suprised that a ram air setup is going to give those kinds of HP gains.
Perhaps the IS350's upper gears are MPG friendly, or that it has a bunch more downforce (that's a stretch I think).
The 350Z is the same way. Decent 0-60 times but it pulls extremely hard from 70-130.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 01, 2007, 11:44:11 PM
I'd be very suprised that a ram air setup is going to give those kinds of HP gains.
Perhaps the IS350's upper gears are MPG friendly, or that it has a bunch more downforce (that's a stretch I think).
I would lean towards the gearing. Not to mention, the G35 revs about 300RPM higher, which means it can be geared a bit more aggressively.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 02, 2007, 06:35:59 AM
I would lean towards the gearing. Not to mention, the G35 revs about 300RPM higher, which means it can be geared a bit more aggressively.
Wizard over at the other forum suggested two very reasonable reasons, being gearing and aerodynamics, and I decided to look at both more closely.
Well in terms of aerodynamics it's the other way around actually. I looked at this as the first possibility. The IS350 has a cd of .28 and the G35 has a cd of .29. So if anything the IS350 should have a slight edge as speeds rise. This isn't surprising as the Lexus is quite sleek and a bit smaller.\
As for gearing,
For the 100-120mph sprint both cars are in 4th gear.
For the G35 4th is 1.27 with final of 3.69
For the IS350 4th is 1.00 with final of 4.08
Interestingly enough, for both cars 4th gear tops out at 125mph. This is since the G35's slightly shorter overall gearing are offset by it's higher redline. So for both cars 4th gear is almost identically optimized for this speed
Thus in terms of gearing from 100-120mph these cars are evenly matched. The IS350 has the advantage in terms of aerodynamics. And yet here is where the G35 manages to pull a .8 second advantage over the IS350. Clearly there is something interesting going on here. Ram air effect of the G35 is very real.
what were the TL numbers and why did they pick it over the G?...
Quote from: YO on January 02, 2007, 03:34:47 PM
what were the TL numbers and why did they pick it over the G?...
I think they were, overall the slowest.
They were. And I am not sure why they picked it over the G35. Have to look at the ratings chart I guess.
No matter what reason they give, I'd always take a G35 over the Accord er...TL. Shame they didn't let the Germans kick all their asses. :devil: :rockon:
Quote from: ro51092 on January 02, 2007, 10:30:02 PM
No matter what reason they give, I'd always take a G35 over the Accord er...TL. Shame they didn't let the Germans kick all their asses. :devil: :rockon:
Bring it on... sadly, in the majority of head to heads with the japs and germs, the only German that competes are the Beemers... the poor Benzes and Audi's sit at the bottom with the Volvos and Saabs of the world...
You keeping think that. I'd much rather have pretty much any entry-lux sedan over the TL.
I agree. Having driven a TL, even though its quick and handles well it's not much fun to drive.
Quote from: JYODER240 on January 03, 2007, 11:15:57 AM
I agree. Having driven a TL, even though its quick and handles well it's not much fun to drive.
It's quick, but it doesn't handle that well. Even the TSX is a much nimbler, more fun car to drive, despite being slower. You're giving it too much credit.
EDIT: And I'd still take my Passat over the TSX every day of the week. :P
Quote from: Raza on January 05, 2007, 05:22:08 PM
It's quick, but it doesn't handle that well.? Even the TSX is a much nimbler, more fun car to drive, despite being slower.? You're giving it too much credit.?
EDIT:? And I'd still take my Passat over the TSX every day of the week.? ?:P
Let me rephrase what I said. The TL generates alot of grip in the turns. Saying it handles well was a poor choice of words.
Quote from: JYODER240 on January 05, 2007, 11:04:30 PM
Let me rephrase what I said. The TL generates alot of grip in the turns. Saying it handles well was a poor choice of words.
Beyond grip, what in your opinion constitutes "good handling"? Because obviously you can slap some huge tires on any regular road car and generate good skidpad numbers. What does the TL lack that makes it a mediocre handler?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 05, 2007, 11:57:13 PM
Beyond grip, what in your opinion constitutes "good handling"? Because obviously you can slap some huge tires on any regular road car and generate good skidpad numbers. What does the TL lack that makes it a mediocre handler?
There's alot more than skidpad numbers. How neutral it is, how predictably it breaks away, how easy it is to catch after it starts to slide, how composed it feels, steering feel, how well it can be placed on a racing line. I didn't spend a ton of time in the TL but from what I remember the steering was to light, lacked feel, and was a little unprecise. It just wasn't very gratifying to drive at the limit.
Quote from: JYODER240 on January 06, 2007, 12:09:57 AM
There's alot more than skidpad numbers. How neutral it is, how predictably it breaks away, how easy it is to catch after it starts to slide, how composed it feels, steering feel, how well it can be placed on a racing line.? I didn't spend a ton of time in the TL but from what I remember the steering was to light, lacked feel, and was a little unprecise. It just wasn't very gratifying to drive at the limit.
To add to that...
I've never driven it, but its weight is also very poorly distributed, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has "catastrophic understeer" :lol:. 6MT versions are also notoriously prone to torque steer. Let's face it - it's not easy to make a FWD car handle as well as an RWD equivalent, and few companies actually give it serious effort. The ones that do end up with good results (Peugeot, VW) or at least cars that suffer from disadvantages but are still relatively fun to drive (Saab, some Hondas). The TL does neither, or so I've heard. The TSX seems to be a far better effort dynamically.
The TL still has alot of understeer, inherent to FWD, but its better than most FWD layouts.
Quote from: YO on January 03, 2007, 07:52:32 AM
Bring it on... sadly, in the majority of head to heads with the japs and germs, the only German that competes are the Beemers... the poor Benzes and Audi's sit at the bottom with the Volvos and Saabs of the world...
Yes, because that is the reason I replaced my lame TL with an A4. :nutty:
Quote from: ro51092 on January 06, 2007, 12:18:47 PM
Yes, because that is the reason I replaced my lame TL with an A4. :nutty:
Nooooo Guju the TL is clearly the better car... :rolleyes:
Honda Products > Any Other Products. Period. ;)
Quote from: TheIntrepid on January 06, 2007, 12:31:28 PM
Nooooo Guju the TL is clearly the better car... :rolleyes:
Honda BMW/Porsche Products > Any Other Products. Period. ;)
[/quote
No joke. :lol:
wow!! The TL pulled a .91 lat gs... pretty impressive... and it bested the G35 in the slalom too... plus it was the largest most comortable of the bunch...
I think this is one of those instances where BOTH the TL and G35 would have performed better with a slush box...
Quote from: YO on January 08, 2007, 06:38:50 AM
wow!! The TL pulled a .91 lat gs... pretty impressive... and it bested the G35 in the slalom too... plus it was the largest most comortable of the bunch...
I think this is one of those instances where BOTH the TL and G35 would have performed better with a slush box...
Define "performed better".
Quote from: TheIntrepid on January 06, 2007, 12:31:28 PM
Nooooo Guju the TL is clearly the better car... :rolleyes:
Honda Products > Any Other Products. Period. ;)
That's what I keep telling him. But he never understands.
I wanna make BMW FWD one of these days actually. :lol:
Quote from: JYODER240 on January 08, 2007, 11:00:45 AM
Define "performed better".
quicker... more pleasing all around...
Quote from: YO on January 08, 2007, 11:29:46 AM
quicker... more pleasing all around...
I would agree with it being quicker, the numbers don't lie. But from my experience in TL's, G35's, and IS350's the TL is not as involving or and fun to drive as the others. The fact thats its FWD really hurts its case as well. The TL maybe be fine for some you care more about comfort than an involving drive and who want FWD. Being an enthusuiast it wouldn't be my top pick as a sports sedan.