Since I came home, we are having trouble getting me in and out of our cars.? We have a BMW 330 convertible, and a Ram 2500.? I get into the Ram ok, but it is pretty hard getting out for me.? I never really fit into the BMW all that well to start with, but now with my reduced mobility it is much harder.? We basically have sold the Cobra, and my wife never learned to drive a stick.? Combined with the fact that the state took my OPS, I would not use that car anymore anyway.?
What I am wondering is, what would you guys all recommend for a car that can fit three kids, a cripple and his wife?? As you know I am pretty good size, and now I have mobility issues so I need something that can fit me while not giving me problems where Katharine feels she needs to help me all the time.? She has her hands full keeping our kids going in the same direction and should not have to worry about me getting in and out and falling down.? ? We have talked about it and think it is time we bought either a mini van or SUV.? I like Randy's girlfriend (Erica) Durango which is what I would buy, but I know there are probably better suited cars out there.? Any thoughts?
Freestyle (Taurus X)
I thought Freestyle too; but a Mazda5 might be good too. :huh:
Freestyle/Taurus X. We have one and it's perfect for what you are looking for.
I do not know the Freestyle, what is it?
This is a Freestyle. All three rows boast best in class legroom and headroom. The third row is actually roomy enough that I can sit there comfortably and I'm 6'1" and 225 lbs.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February030.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February029.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February032.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February033.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February034.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February028.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February027.jpg)
The Taurus X is a good suggestion. You could also take a look at a Saturn Outlook or GMC Acadia, depending on your price range.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 24, 2007, 02:31:24 PM
This is a Freestyle.? All three rows boast best in class legroom and headroom.? The third row is actually roomy enough that I can sit there comfortably and I'm 6'1" and 225 lbs.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February030.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February029.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February032.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February033.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February034.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February028.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/hemi666/February027.jpg)
In all honesty, this seems smaller than an Explorer. If it is as big or smaller than that, it will be too small I think. Remember, I am 6'5 and pretty big so I do need some shoulder and hip room (passenger side only now). Plus, I have my walker with me now all the time. I was honestly thinking bigger, but pictures can be deceiving. Is it as small as it looks?
I agree with most here. The Freestyle probably has the best combination of interior space and ease of entry/exit on the market. It's a bargain as well, IMO.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:43 PM
The Taurus X is a good suggestion. You could also take a look at a Saturn Outlook or GMC Acadia, depending on your price range.
Taurus X looks like a Pacifica fighter? If it is I think it might still be too small.? Thoughts?
Quote from: hounddog on April 24, 2007, 02:40:34 PM
In all honesty, this seems smaller than an Explorer. If it is as big or smaller than that, it will be too small I think. Remember, I am 6'5 and pretty big so I do need some shoulder and hip room (passenger side only now). Plus, I have my walker with me now all the time. I was honestly thinking bigger, but pictures can be deceiving. Is it as small as it looks?
I'm fairly certain it's actually larger than the Explorer. I'll check the numbers for ya.
Quote from: mazda6er on April 24, 2007, 02:44:58 PM
I'm fairly certain it's actually larger than the Explorer. I'll check the numbers for ya.
Well then what is the one they came out with that is smaller? And the Freestyle, it seems like that one gets really good mileage. Or am I thinking of something else?
It's a Ford station wagon. It basically replaced the Freestar, or whatever it's called.
(http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/soccer.moms/05.ford.freestyle.500.jpg)
(http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/images/vehicle/pg/fsy07_056_ext_enl.jpg)
(http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/images/vehicle/pg/fsy07_057_ext_enl.jpg)
I think this would be an excellent vehicle for a person with limited mobility. It's not as high as an SUV, but it's higher than a normal car. It's very easy to get into and out of. It's a very spacious vehicle.
Also, the Chrysler Pacifica.
Expedition?
Quote from: hounddog on April 24, 2007, 01:41:13 PM
Since I came home, we are having trouble getting me in and out of our cars.? We have a BMW 330 convertible, and a Ram 2500.? I get into the Ram ok, but it is pretty hard getting out for me.? I never really fit into the BMW all that well to start with, but now with my reduced mobility it is much harder.? We basically have sold the Cobra, and my wife never learned to drive a stick.? Combined with the fact that the state took my OPS, I would not use that car anymore anyway.?
What I am wondering is, what would you guys all recommend for a car that can fit three kids, a cripple and his wife?? As you know I am pretty good size, and now I have mobility issues so I need something that can fit me while not giving me problems where Katharine feels she needs to help me all the time.? She has her hands full keeping our kids going in the same direction and should not have to worry about me getting in and out and falling down.? ? We have talked about it and think it is time we bought either a mini van or SUV.? I like Randy's girlfriend (Erica) Durango which is what I would buy, but I know there are probably better suited cars out there.? Any thoughts?
Well, since you have a party of five, I would say a minivan. Most seet 7 and get better gas mileage then the large SUV's out there.
If getting in the front seat is hard, then the rear sliders should take care of that problem.
Plus most vans will be cheaper then an equal SUV
Measurement Explorer/Freestyle (larger dimension in bold.)
Exterior
Wheelbase (in.) 113.7/112.9
Length (in.) 193.4/200.1
Height ? empty (in.) 72.8/68.2
Width (in.) 73.7/74.9
Track width - front/rear (in.) 60.9/61.8//64.6/65.0
Ground clearance (in.) 8.2/8
Interior
Head room (in.)
First row 39.8/39.4
Second row 38. 7/39.8
Optional third row 37.4/38.6
Shoulder room (in.)
First row 59/58.4
Second row 58.9/58
Optional third row 53.1/50.8
Hip room (in.)
First row 55.4/55.5
Second row 55.5/56
Optional third row 45.3/45.9
Leg room (in.)
First row 42.4/41.1
Second row 36.9/40.4
Optional third row 34.9/33.3
So, the same size or slightly bigger in almost all measurements. I guess they're actually very closely matched... I suppose you could consider a Honda Pilot, but that's probably not as easy to get in and out of.
Sienna? :huh:
Quote from: TheIntrepid on April 24, 2007, 03:01:29 PM
Quest?
Mention another minivan and I'll beat you. :thumbsup:
Quote from: mazda6er on April 24, 2007, 02:57:34 PM
Oh no you didn't.
I mean, think about it. If HEIGHT is a problem, to get in and out of, then wouldn't a van be easier?
Quote from: hounddog on April 24, 2007, 02:40:34 PM
Remember, I am 6'5 and pretty big so I do need some shoulder and hip room (passenger side only now).? Plus, I have my walker with me now all the time.? I was honestly thinking bigger, but pictures can be deceiving.? Is it as small as it looks?
No it's quite large. My wife says she still isn't quite used to how big it is. It would be best if you went and sat in one yourself, because I didn't realize you were 6'5" and the front passenger seat is actually higher then the driver's seat. The driver's seat has more then enough head room for you, but the passenger seat may not. If this isn't big enough for you, then a full size SUV or a minivan are your only options I'm afraid.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on April 24, 2007, 03:02:09 PM
I mean, think about it. If HEIGHT is a problem, to get in and out of, then wouldn't a van be easier?
The man has a limp, not a vagina. Kindly take your "van" talk to a different thread, sir.
Quote from: mazda6er on April 24, 2007, 03:03:32 PM
The man has a limp, not a vagina. Kindly take your "van" talk to a different thread, sir.
:clap:
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 24, 2007, 03:03:18 PM
No it's quite large. My wife says she still isn't quite used to how big it is. It would be best if you went and sat in one yourself, because I didn't realize you were 6'5" and the front passenger seat is actually higher then the driver's seat. The driver's seat has more then enough head room for you, but the passenger seat may not. If this isn't big enough for you, then a full size SUV or a minivan are your only options I'm afraid.
If he can't fit into a Freestyle, the Pilot would be perfect.
Quote from: 93JC on April 24, 2007, 03:04:20 PM
:clap:
No offense to any van drivers out there, by the way. :lol:
Quote from: hounddog on April 24, 2007, 02:42:56 PM
Taurus X looks like a Pacifica fighter?? If it is I think it might still be too small.?? Thoughts?
The Taurus X is, for all intents and purposes, a Pacifica fighter. It's about the same size, but I think the Pacifica will cost you more in most instances (unless Chrysler has started offering heavy rebates).
If the Taurus X is too small for you, like I said, take a look at an Outlook or Acadia. They have a tremendous amount of cargo room (IIRC, more than a Tahoe or Yukon), and they are designed to haul passengers in comfort.
Quote from: mazda6er on April 24, 2007, 03:03:32 PM
The man has a limp, not a vagina.
Oh my God, that is effing hilarious!
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 24, 2007, 03:06:42 PM
The Taurus X is, for all intents and purposes, a Pacifica fighter. It's about the same size, but I think the Pacifica will cost you more in most instances (unless Chrysler has started offering heavy rebates).
Pacifica's nowhere nearly as roomy, particularly in the third row.
Outlook/Acadia/Enclave might be up your alley.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:43 PM
The Taurus X is a good suggestion. You could also take a look at a Saturn Outlook or GMC Acadia, depending on your price range.
I saw an Acadia in traffic the other day, and it looked damn good! It's certainly worth a look.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 24, 2007, 03:06:42 PM
The Taurus X is, for all intents and purposes, a Pacifica fighter. It's about the same size, but I think the Pacifica will cost you more in most instances (unless Chrysler has started offering heavy rebates).
If the Taurus X is too small for you, like I said, take a look at an Outlook or Acadia. They have a tremendous amount of cargo room (IIRC, more than a Tahoe or Yukon), and they are designed to haul passengers in comfort.
Kat and I stopped one night and looked into the window of a Pacifica. We thought with everyone it was too small. But the Taurus X is a great looking car, actually a little better looking than the Pacifica.
I think we are going to start looking at mini vans and SUV's to be honest. That is why the thread; I am looking for multiple options. I can not get out when Kat is at work, and I get too tired to sit at the comp. and look for hours. Thanks for what you guys have added so far. I think our first stop will be a Freestyle, and then .... Durango maybe followed by ? There is no budget for this, we just need to find something we can all go in and take stuff and maybe our dog.?
If you are still considering a minivan (definitely makes sense for your situation), look at the Odyssey, Sienna, and Entourage/Sedona. Otherwise, the Freestyle, Pilot, or Outlook/Acadia.
Quote from: hounddog on April 24, 2007, 05:18:57 PM
Kat and I stopped one night and looked into the window of a Pacifica. We thought with everyone it was too small. But the Taurus X is a great looking car, actually a little better looking than the Pacifica.
I think we are going to start looking at mini vans and SUV's to be honest. That is why the thread; I am looking for multiple options. I can not get out when Kat is at work, and I get too tired to sit at the comp. and look for hours. Thanks for what you guys have added so far. I think our first stop will be a Freestyle, and then .... Durango maybe followed by ? There is no budget for this, we just need to find something we can all go in and take stuff and maybe our dog.?
A Durango might be a little higher up than most of the other choices mentioned, so it could be a little tough getting in and out, but it
is pretty darn roomy inside.
Quote from: mazda6er on April 24, 2007, 03:03:32 PM
The man has a limp, not a vagina. Kindly take your "van" talk to a different thread, sir.
:lol:
:clap:
I'd look at the Pilot or MDX. Our MDX is the older version, and is a bit smaller than the new one, and it seems enormous to me, and i'm 6' 1", so maybe you'd fit in just fine.
Quote from: ifcar on April 24, 2007, 05:17:28 PM
Pacifica's nowhere nearly as roomy, particularly in the third row.
I was thinking that might be the case. I haven't spent an extensive amount of time in either vehicle, so I wasn't sure.
I think a crossover or a minivan would work well for your situation, hounddog. Personally, I can't imagine myself driving a minivan, so my first stop would be the GMC dealer to check out the Acadia. I took a good look at one this past weekend and it was impressive. :ohyeah:
Used X5?
Quote from: Raghavan on April 24, 2007, 07:08:32 PM
:lol:
:clap:
I'd look at the Pilot or MDX. Our MDX is the older version, and is a bit smaller than the new one, and it seems enormous to me, and i'm 6' 1", so maybe you'd fit in just fine.
I looked at a Pilot that was parked in front our building this morning and if a Freestyle isn't big enough, then that's way too small.
I'm 6'4" tall, and our Pilot is plenty roomy. I've got a few inches of clearance betwen the top of my head and the headliner. The seat position is good for someone my height too. Standing outside the car, my butt is exactly the same height as the seat bottom. No need to climb up or drop down into the seat.
The Pilot handles pretty good (C&D top 5 pick for several years), has good acceleration and an awesome tranny. Downside is fuel economy - we get 15-18mpg in suburban driving.
They are pretty cheap right now. Honda is offering cheap financing or dealer cash, so you can get into a new Pilot (FWD LX) for around 23 grand.
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=672237
Quote from: crv16 on April 25, 2007, 09:27:39 AM
I'm 6'4" tall, and our Pilot is plenty roomy. I've got a few inches of clearance betwen the top of my head and the headliner. The seat position is good for someone my height too. Standing outside the car, my butt is exactly the same height as the seat bottom. No need to climb up or drop down into the seat.
The Pilot handles pretty good (C&D top 5 pick for several years), has good acceleration and an awesome tranny. Downside is fuel economy - we get 15-18mpg in suburban driving.
I guess you missed the part where he has three kids and walker. :ohyeah:
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on April 25, 2007, 07:06:31 AM
Used X5?
:nono:
Ridiculously expensive for what it is, relatively small on the inside for its size.
Quote from: 93JC on April 25, 2007, 10:33:46 AM
:nono:
Ridiculously expensive for what it is, relatively small on the inside for its size.
Still a bad value, but the X3's interior dimensions are practically the same. If he's so inclined, that may be a place to look.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 25, 2007, 10:08:55 AM
I guess you missed the part where he has three kids and walker. :ohyeah:
I've got 3 kids too... The Pilot seats 8.
Quote from: crv16 on April 25, 2007, 10:41:59 AM
I've got 3 kids too... The Pilot seats 8.
and has no room left for a walker behind the 3rd row.
Well we are going to look this afternoon.? Our list starts goes like this so far;
Freestyle
Expedition
Tahoe
Acadia
Durango
Caravan
Pilot
the big Nissan suv
and a couple other asian vans/suvs
Thanks guys, appreciate you input.? I will let you know.
Quote from: hounddog on April 25, 2007, 10:57:58 AM
Well we are going to look this afternoon.? Our list starts goes like this so far;
Freestyle
Expedition
Tahoe
Acadia
Durango
Caravan
Pilot
the big Nissan suv
and a couple other asian vans/suvs
Thanks guys, appreciate you input.? I will let you know.
Cool. Good luck.
(http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/FordFreeStyle/Images/Hatch.jpg)
(http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaPilot/Images/Hatch.jpg)
(http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaPilot/Images/Hatch2.jpg)
The Freestyle has 22.5 cu ft cargo space behind the 3rd row, vs 15.9 for the Pilot.
The Pilot comes standard with a split rear seat.
When we bought the Pilot, we considered an Odyssey, but found it to be way too big. It felt like we were driving a bus. The Pilot is almost 2 feet shorter than the Freestyle (and the Ody), making it a bit more maneuverable.
The Pilot/MDX has plenty of room with the 3rd row down.
Quote from: Raghavan on April 25, 2007, 12:51:13 PM
The Pilot/MDX has plenty of room with the 3rd row down.
Yeah, but with 3 kids and the walker he'll probably want the third row up with plenty of room behind it.
Middle seat holds three people...
Quote from: Raghavan on April 25, 2007, 01:01:54 PM
Middle seat holds three people...
I don't know how old or big his 3 kids are and how well they get along, but I know that wouldn't fly with most families.
My cousin, my brother and i have sat in the middle row with no probs.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 25, 2007, 01:22:44 PM
how well they get along
They get along as well as I tell them to. :heated:
They are just normal size 12 and younger.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 25, 2007, 12:56:32 PM
Yeah, but with 3 kids and the walker he'll probably want the third row up with plenty of room behind it.
What we typically do is have the smaller part of the split 3rd row seat up for our youngest, and the older two sit in the middle row. That gives you a lot of cargo room in the back of the pilot.
Back in my 12 and younger days living with 2 very similarly aged brothers who didn't always get along, we had a Chevy Astro. As a mode of transportation for kids, minivans really can't be beat. It's so much easier to access the back seat than in an SUV, it's gets better mileage than an SUV, and it can haul more. I hate to recommend one as much as I love them, but what would you think about a Honda Odyssey?
Other than that, the Freestyle and Acadia are tough to beat. They're more practical than an SUV for your purposes and easier on the eyes than a minivan. That's just my $0.02.
I'd say the Acadia/Outlook is the way to go here. Roomy but not so high off the ground that you'd have issues.
Quote from: Catman on April 25, 2007, 05:11:54 PM
I'd say the Acadia/Outlook is the way to go here.? Roomy but not so high off the ground that you'd have issues.
We drove six vehicles. I am pretty beat and will get results posted tomorrow. Have a good night, fellas.
Since we carry around aged and crippled grandma (she's 85) I feel like my opinion should have some bearing here which is why I'm going to give it (of course). We have a Ford Windstar and a Freestyle. My grandma has an easier time getting into the Freestyle than the minivan. It's actually a little lower to ground I do believe. It's rides comfortably. It is also an incredibly spacious vehicle. We put her walker, wheelchair, overnight bad, medicine, suitcases. It's a tight fit with all that in it and the walker and wheelchair have to be folded up.
If anything you should sit in a Freestyle. I would also encourage you to sit in a Ford 500. Sure some think the 500 is bland, slow, and even ugly but at this point in time, who cares. You something you can live with. You can test drive those bigger SUVs and buy whatever you want/afford.
Quote from: sparkplug on April 25, 2007, 09:50:34 PM
Since we carry around aged and crippled grandma (she's 85) I feel like my opinion should have some bearing here which is why I'm going to give it (of course). We have a Ford Windstar and a Freestyle. My grandma has an easier time getting into the Freestyle than the minivan. It's actually a little lower to ground I do believe. It's rides comfortably. It is also an incredibly spacious vehicle. We put her walker, wheelchair, overnight bad, medicine, suitcases. It's a tight fit with all that in it and the walker and wheelchair have to be folded up.
If anything you should sit in a Freestyle. I would also encourage you to sit in a Ford 500. Sure some think the 500 is bland, slow, and even ugly but at this point in time, who cares. You something you can live with. You can test drive those bigger SUVs and buy whatever you want/afford.
We did. I liked it pretty well. More later, Kat took all of this afternoon off and we are headed out again in about 5 minutes. Had to wait for her to get ready, and to fence with Soup Deville in the Radar Detector thread. :lol:
Quote from: mazda6er on April 24, 2007, 03:03:32 PM
The man has a limp, not a vagina. Kindly take your "van" talk to a different thread, sir.
I have infinitly more respect for the guy who drives the van because he needs space as opposed to the poseurs who get a large SUV to make their dick feel bigger. If you don't need to take the thing off-roading, then whats the point of getting it? As others pointed out, a Minivan is cheaper to own and operate and gets comparable or better mileage. I even bet that something like the Quest handles much better than a true SUV.
Besides, if you think this:
(http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/assets/resources/2006/10/2007-Saturn-Outlook-Pricing.jpg)
Looks tougher than this:
(http://www.crystal-belize.com/images/chevy_van_12pax.jpg)
You're fooling yourself
Quote from: hounddog on April 25, 2007, 10:57:58 AM
Well we are going to look this afternoon. Our list starts goes like this so far;
Freestyle
Expedition
Tahoe
Acadia
Durango
Caravan
Pilot
the big Nissan suv
and a couple other asian vans/suvs
Thanks guys, appreciate you input. I will let you know.
Hounddog; PLEASE OH PLEASE do not buy a Caravan. We have the best Caravan you can get, a 2006 Grand Caravan SXT and it's absolute ASS SHIT compared to my cousin's Quest. It's slow, ugly, boring, and the Stow'N'Go seating is probably its only strong point. Oh yeah, and remember that this is coming frmo a guy who has one.
Also, @ Mazda6er, 99% of SUVs don't go off road and are fucking gas-guzzling on the road. If he already has a Ram 2500, I doubt he really wants to put in up to 1.5x as much gas if he doesn't have to. Perhaps a Quest is right up his alley. Think abotu it practically, Tave is totally right; Why does he need an SUV again? All this car is going to be doing is hauling his family around.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 11:32:09 AM
I have infinitly more respect for the guy who drives the van because he needs space as opposed to the poseurs who get a large SUV to make their dick feel bigger.
Is there a bug going around that is making everyone say stupid things? That is the lamest and most rediculous argument I have ever heard against SUVs. If that is your rationale, then nobody should buy a sports car either.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 12:43:53 PM
Is there a bug going around that is making everyone say stupid things?? That is the lamest and most rediculous argument I have ever heard against SUVs.? If that is your rationale, then nobody should buy a sports car either.
Sports cars serve a very specific purpose. However, giant SUV's that are never taken offroad do not serve any purpose that a van couldn't do better. Unless you're talking about towing, which is a different thing altogether.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 12:43:53 PM
Is there a bug going around that is making everyone say stupid things?? That is the lamest and most rediculous argument I have ever heard against SUVs.? If that is your rationale, then nobody should buy a sports car either.
It must be tough to be so much more intelligent than everyone else.
Sports cars CAN serve a very specific purpose, that doesn't mean that many actually serve this purpose. It is the exact same with SUVs.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 12:43:53 PM
Is there a bug going around that is making everyone say stupid things?? That is the lamest and most rediculous argument I have ever heard against SUVs.? If that is your rationale, then nobody should buy a sports car either.
No more ridiculous than the idea that driving a van is only for people with vaginas.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 12:52:30 PM
No more ridiculous than the idea that driving a van is only for people with vaginas.
Was that my statement?
Quote from: TBR on April 26, 2007, 12:50:04 PM
Sports cars CAN serve a very specific purpose, that doesn't mean that many actually serve this purpose. It is the exact same with SUVs.
It is just as sad to see a sports car being driven around like a grandma, as it is an SUV in the middle of a city with not a mudpuddle in sight.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 12:54:40 PM
Was that my statement?
Nope, just something you ignored.
My post wasn't a one-off tirade on SUV purchasing. You pretended like it was.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 12:47:19 PM
Sports cars serve a very specific purpose. However, giant SUV's that are never taken offroad do not serve any purpose that a van couldn't do better. Unless you're talking about towing, which is a different thing altogether.
That's true. But how many sports cars do you see driven in the manner they were intended? Everyone should drive 4 door sedans and at most a minivan I guess.
I was arguing the statement,
"...poseurs who get a large SUV to make their dick feel bigger". That statement is absolutely moronic. I know people who say the exact same thing about Corvettes, Ferraris, Porsches, and BMWs. It is very rare that I have actually ever seen someone driving a sports car or SUV that bought it
"to make their dick feel bigger". I would really laugh if Hounddog bought an Expedition or Acadia this afternoon and then comes and reads that statement tonight.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 01:04:50 PM
That's true.? But how many sports cars do you see driven in the manner they were intended?? Everyone should drive 4 door sedans and at most a minivan I guess.
I was arguing the statement, "...poseurs who get a large SUV to make their dick feel bigger".? That statement is absolutely moronic.? I know people who say the exact same thing about Corvettes, Ferraris, Porsches, and BMWs.? It is very rare that I have actually ever seen someone driving a sports car or SUV that bought it "to make their dick feel bigger".? I would really laugh if Hounddog bought an Expedition or Acadia this afternoon and then comes and reads that statement tonight.
Hemi, BeJESUS! Look at my post carefully again. The part you are getting so worked up over is the most sarcastic, irrelevant part of the entire thing. I wasn't commenting upon the personality of SUV buyers, I was countering the notion that you need a VAGINA to drive a minivan.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 11:32:09 AM
I have infinitly more respect for the guy who drives the van because he needs space as opposed to the poseurs who get a large SUV to make their dick feel bigger.
Oh, the originality. :rolleyes:
This "argument" becomes less meaningful every time I hear it. Sorry, but I have no tolerance for somebody who makes assinine generalizations like this one. But hey, whatever makes you feel better about yourself. :huh:
Edit - If I misunderstood what you truly meant, I apologize.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 26, 2007, 01:47:38 PM
Edit - If I misunderstood what you truly meant, I apologize.
Yeah, me too. It didn't come across as sarcastic.
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 26, 2007, 01:47:38 PM
Oh, the originality. :rolleyes:
This "argument" becomes less meaningful every time I hear it. Sorry, but I have no tolerance for somebody who makes assinine generalizations like this one. But hey, whatever makes you feel better about yourself. :huh:
Sarcasm... I know it's hard to spot online but I thought it was kind of obvious there. I exagerrated, but the point is that driving a minivan doesn't emasculate you.
But in all seriousness, can either you or Hemi give me one good, objective reason why someone who is never going to take their vehicle out of bounds needs an SUV?
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 01:01:34 PM
My post wasn't a one-off tirade on SUV purchasing. You pretended like it was.
I wasn't pretending, that's how it read. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 01:51:42 PM
Yeah, me too.? It didn't come across as sarcastic.
My bad. I intended it to.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 01:51:47 PM
But in all seriousness, can either you or Hemi give me one good, objective reason why someone who is never going to take their vehicle out of bounds needs an SUV?
Towing.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 01:53:13 PM
Towing.
I believe that's been mentioned. Anything else?
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 01:51:47 PM
But in all seriousness, can either you or Hemi give me one good, objective reason why someone who is never going to take their vehicle out of bounds needs an SUV?
I've owned two minivans in the past, and I upgraded to an SUV when I started towing on a regular basis and taking the family on long roadtrips. The vans were well-suited for roadtrips most of the time, but they were weighted down pretty easily (this has probably been negated by the increasing amount of power going into vans these days), and our Suburbans/Tahoes have been more pleasant to drive over long distances. But that's just me. :huh:
Quote from: VetteZ06 on April 26, 2007, 01:58:49 PM
I've owned two minivans in the past, and I upgraded to an SUV when I started towing on a regular basis and taking the family on long roadtrips. The vans were well-suited for roadtrips most of the time, but they were weighted down pretty easily (this has probably been negated by the increasing amount of power going into vans these days), and our Suburbans/Tahoes have been more pleasant to drive over long distances. But that's just me. :huh:
I don't think your power argument is negated at all. Minivans are still underpowered compared to SUV's. If people want a V8 they're going to have to look somewhere else. Does any minivan offer one?
I've always found minivans to be more comfortable on long trips. Even in the Suburban I feel cramped in the back. Because of the seating configuration of minivans, I always have somewhere to put my legs.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 02:03:35 PM
I don't think your power argument is negated at all. Minivans are still underpowered compared to SUV's. If people want a V8 they're going to have to look somewhere else. Does any minivan offer one?
I've always found minivans to be more comfortable on long trips. Even in the Suburban I feel cramped in the back. Because of the seating configuration of minivans, I always have somewhere to put my legs.
In the driver's seat I find SUVs to be far more comfortable. The seats and the seating position tend to be more comfortable. Power is another and I find minivans have a lot more bodyroll. SUVs usually have stiffer suspension. Another is winter traction since most minivans don't have AWD.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 02:14:22 PM
In the driver's seat I find SUVs to be far more comfortable.? The seats and the seating position tend to be more comfortable.? Power is another and I find minivans have a lot more bodyroll.? SUVs usually have stiffer suspension.? Another is winter traction since most minivans don't have AWD.
You talk about body roll like it's a bad thing. And how can you say than an SUV is more comfortable than a minivan? You got that backwards. It's true that minivans have less power, but they accelerate just as fast as SUVs, because they aren't so OVERWEIGHT.
As far as winter traction.... a FWD minivan is perfectly capable. A RWD SUV is not, so now you HAVE to get the 4x4 version.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 02:14:22 PM
In the driver's seat I find SUVs to be far more comfortable.? The seats and the seating position tend to be more comfortable.? Power is another and I find minivans have a lot more bodyroll.? SUVs usually have stiffer suspension.? Another is winter traction since most minivans don't have AWD.
They have the stiffer suspension because they need it in the unlikely event they see dirt. That suspension doesn't always translate to a nice-ride; my 4Runner was painfull to drive around Pheonix at times. Speed bumps simply murder SUV's.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 02:17:33 PM
You talk about body roll like it's a bad thing. And how can you say than an SUV is more comfortable than a minivan? You got that backwards. It's true that minivans have less power, but they accelerate just as fast as SUVs, because they aren't so OVERWEIGHT.
As far as winter traction.... a FWD minivan is perfectly capable. A RWD SUV is not, so now you HAVE to get the 4x4 version.
1. Body roll is a bad thing.
2. SUVs for the driver are more comfortable and generally have a more comfortable driving position. I have always found minivans to have an awkward driving position.
3. I'm not talking about acceleration, I'm talking about the ability to maintain highways speeds going up hills and mountains when you have the entire family and all the luggage in them.
4. A FWD minivan is capable, yes. But a 4x4 SUV is more capabale. SUVs pretty much only come with 4x4. It's rare to find a 2wd version.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 02:24:15 PM
They have the stiffer suspension because they need it in the unlikely event they see dirt. That suspension doesn't always translate to a nice-ride; my 4Runner was painfull to drive around Pheonix at times. Speed bumps simply murder SUV's.
It doesn't matter why they have stiffer suspension, they just do and that makes the body motions of an SUV a little better to take then those of a minivan. The SUVs I've driven handle potholes a lot better then minivans.
SUVs pretty much only come with 4x4. It's rare to find a 2wd version.
Especially with today's AWD set-ups. You still see a lot of 2WD standard pickups. I don't think I'd ever want one, but they're out there.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 02:26:32 PM
It doesn't matter why they have stiffer suspension, they just do and that makes the body motions of an SUV a little better to take then those of a minivan.? The SUVs I've driven handle potholes a lot better then minivans.
I understand that, but the tradeoff on a stiffer suspension is often a harsher ride. Most people here are okay with that, but not everyone wants a SUV that handles likes it's on rails. Personally, I would be more than satisfied with a cushy suspension in my family hauler.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 02:30:27 PM
I understand that, but the tradeoff on a stiffer suspension is often a harsher ride. Most people here are okay with that, but not everyone wants a SUV that handles likes it's on rails. Personally, I would be more than satisfied with a cushy suspension in my family hauler.
My personal preference is stiffer ride. Too soft and I feel disconnected.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 02:24:37 PM
1. Body roll is a bad thing.
If body roll is always such a bad thing, why doesn't every vehicle have 20-inch diameter sway bars?
I'm not going to get into the physics and geometeries of suspensions, but bodyroll is not always a bad thing.
Quote
2. SUVs for the driver are more comfortable and generally have a more comfortable driving position. I have always found minivans to have an awkward driving position.
Comfort is purely subjective, no arguement there. I guess a stiff ride some comfortable for some people? :huh:
Quote
3. I'm not talking about acceleration, I'm talking about the ability to maintain highways speeds going up hills and mountains when you have the entire family and all the luggage in them.
I've never driven a minivan that couldn't maintain highway speeds even when fully loaded. Any modern minivan wouldn't have that problem, but perhaps an '87 Caravan 4cyl would. If you're planning on driving around with a 2000lb cargo though, maybe an SUV is best.
Quote
4. A FWD minivan is capable, yes. But a 4x4 SUV is more capabale. SUVs pretty much only come with 4x4. It's rare to find a 2wd version.
There are plenty of 2wd SUV's out there, and there are plenty of AWD minivans. With the number of FWD-based crossovers out nowadays, I don't see any sense in arguing about this.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 02:39:00 PM
If body roll is always such a bad thing, why doesn't every vehicle have 20-inch diameter sway bars?
I'm not going to get into the physics and geometeries of suspensions, but bodyroll is not always a bad thing.
Body roll is a bad thing, otherwise it wouldn't be a carmaker's objective to reduce it as much as possible. Drive a first generation Sportage and then tell me you think bodyroll isn't a bad thing.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 02:39:00 PM
There are plenty of 2wd SUV's out there...
Maybe where you live. Not here.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 02:46:36 PM
Maybe where you live.? Not here.
They exist as an offering, but I don't see too many on the lots.
The 2WD versions tend to be strippers, and dealerships seem to avoid those like the plague.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 02:45:53 PM
Body roll is a bad thing, otherwise it wouldn't be a carmaker's objective to reduce it as much as possible.? Drive a first generation Sportage and then tell me you think bodyroll isn't a bad thing.
Stop talking out of your ass. Body roll must be reduced on SUV's because they have a higher roll-center. Thus, they must have large sway bars and have to suffer with a stiffer ride. If they didn't do that, wheels would be coming off the ground in turns and people would be freaking out. Minivans have a lower roll-center, so they can get away with having more body roll so they can enjoy having a smoother ride.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 02:53:30 PM
Stop talking out of your ass. Body roll must be reduced on SUV's because they have a higher roll-center. Thus, they must have large sway bars and have to suffer with a stiffer ride. If they didn't do that, wheels would be coming off the ground in turns and people would be freaking out. Minivans have a lower roll-center, so they can get away with having more body roll so they can enjoy having a smoother ride.
SUV's also need stiff suspensions to remain competent off-road.
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 02:57:28 PM
SUV's also need stiff suspensions to remain competent off-road.
Not necessarily. In most off-road situations, the suspension must be able to articulate enough to keep the wheels on the ground. Stiff anti-roll bars prevent that from happening, so often times offroaders disconnect the sway bars before hitting the trail.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 02:53:30 PM
Stop talking out of your ass. Body roll must be reduced on SUV's because they have a higher roll-center. Thus, they must have large sway bars and have to suffer with a stiffer ride. If they didn't do that, wheels would be coming off the ground in turns and people would be freaking out. Minivans have a lower roll-center, so they can get away with having more body roll so they can enjoy having a smoother ride.
Body roll is still a bad thing. That's why every car manufacturer out there tries to minimize it as much as possible. Why don't YOU stop talking out of your ass.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 03:00:37 PM
Body roll is still a bad thing.? That's why every car manufacturer out there tries to minimize it as much as possible.? Why don't YOU stop talking out of your ass.
Ok Hemi66666, try this: weld the axles of your truck directly to the frame, then tell me how much you hate body roll. :rolleyes:
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 03:00:00 PM
Not necessarily. In most off-road situations, the suspension must be able to articulate enough to keep the wheels on the ground. Stiff anti-roll bars prevent that from happening, so often times offroaders disconnect the sway bars before hitting the trail.
Yes, but dedicated offroad suspension is far stiffer then anything you would want on the road. If you go offroad with soft suspension your truck bounces too much. Stiffer suspension keeps the bouncing to a minimum. Disconnecting anti-roll bars gives better articulation but it doesn't soften the suspension.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 03:02:14 PM
Ok Hemi66666, try this: weld the axles of your truck directly to the frame, then tell me how much you hate body roll.? :rolleyes:
You're confusing things. The ride would suck, but cornering would be awesome.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 03:04:10 PM
Yes, but dedicated offroad suspension is far stiffer then anything you would want on the road.? If you go offroad with soft suspension your truck bounces too much.? Stiffer suspension keeps the bouncing to a minimum.? Disconnecting anti-roll bars gives better articulation but it doesn't soften the suspension.
This just proves to me you're talking out of your ass about suspension.
You're telling me that a SOFT suspension bounces
too much? While a STIFFER suspention bounces
less?
This is basic stuff man, a stiffer spring has a higher oscillating frequency than a softer spring.
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 03:10:55 PM
This just proves to me you're talking out of your ass about suspension.
You're telling me that a SOFT suspension bounces too much? While a STIFFER suspention bounces less?
This is basic stuff man, a stiffer spring has a higher oscillating frequency than a softer spring.
Have you ever ridden or driven a truck that was purposely built for offroading? Stiff shocks keeps the bouncing in check. The ride on road is not that great, but for offroading it's perfect.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 03:38:54 PM
Have you ever ridden or driven a truck that was purposely built for offroading?? Stiff shocks keeps the bouncing in check.? ?The ride on road is not that great, but for offroading it's perfect.
More with the silly questions meant to suggest that I am not talking from experience. Then you start talking about shocks, which are not springs. All of this BS you keep spewing out, it just flows from your finger tips like you've been possessed by Rosie O'Donnell or something, doesn't it? Or are you actually trying?
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 03:48:16 PM
More with the silly questions meant to suggest that I am not talking from experience. Then you start talking about shocks, which are not springs. All of this BS you keep spewing out, it just flows from your finger tips like you've been possessed by Rosie O'Donnell or something, doesn't it? Or are you actually trying?
Who said ANYTHING about springs?? It wasn't me. I was talking about suspension as a whole.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 03:49:31 PM
Who said ANYTHING about springs? It wasn't me.
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 26, 2007, 03:04:10 PM
Yes, but dedicated offroad suspension is far stiffer then anything you would want on the road.? If you go offroad with soft suspension your truck bounces too much.? Stiffer suspension keeps the bouncing to a minimum.? Disconnecting anti-roll bars gives better articulation but it doesn't soften the suspension.
Anit-roll bars are springs. Would you care to change your story now? (BTW, the highlighted statement is completely false as well)
Holy shit. You just won't quit will you?
1. Offroaders disconnect anti-roll bars to allow more articulation.
2. Offroaders use very stiff shocks to keep the bouncing under control
3. Stiff shocks make for a rougher and stiffer ride
4. softer shocks allow more bouncing offroad but a more comfortable on road ride.
What isn't true about what I just said?
Holy shit, you're still talking out of your ass! Now you're talking about "shocks", but before you were talking about "suspension". I can't continue to argue with you if you keep changing your story.
:rolleyes:
Are not shocks a component of suspension?
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 04:20:30 PM
Are not shocks a component of suspension?
Yes they are. A very important part too, I might add.
This thread has lost it's way. (http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2072/deadhorsezz2.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 04:20:30 PM
Are not shocks a component of suspension?
What the fuck is your problem?
Quote from: Tave on April 26, 2007, 12:49:41 PM
It must be tough to be so much more intelligent than everyone else.
It is, but I try to be zen about it.
Boys, boys..................shut up! :P
Quote from: Catman on April 26, 2007, 06:53:36 PM
Boys, boys..................shut up! :P
But.... suspension.... shocks... :mask:
Quote from: NACar on April 26, 2007, 07:27:18 PM
But.... suspension.... shocks... :mask:
Hopefully that car in your avatar has them! :mask:
:lol:
Man, this is nuts. I'd rather argue about world peanuts... I mean piece....err I mean peace.
Jesus Christ; you guys take some things way too far.
Thanks you big jerks.? Hijacking should be illegal or something.? ?:cry:
I drove several SUV's, a couple vans, and a couple sedans.? I am keeping some notes, and we are going to drive a couple more cars tomorrow.? I will give more detailed report if you guys wish.? If not, I will just tell you which ones I liked the most.?
Whatever you do, do not start hijacking again or I will write every single note I have down about every single car we looked at.? Every letter.? Got it?? Good~!
Legal disclaimer; I just noticed that I wrote that I drove these cars. I would never do something so illegal as drive without a license.
Ever.
Honest.
:rolleyes:
You don't have a license?
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=8770.msg431603#msg431603 date=1177717753
You don't have a license?
I have one in my wallet. But the State of Michigan and I see differently on whether or not I can use it since my stroke.
Quote from: hounddog on April 27, 2007, 05:53:26 PM
I have one in my wallet. But the State of Michigan and I see differently on whether or not I can use it since my stroke.
Fuck the state of Michigan then!
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=8770.msg431615#msg431615 date=1177718074
Fuck the state of Michigan then!
That is my general attitude.
Unfortunately, my wife likes rules.
She is a party pooper.
Being responsible sucks.
Quote from: hounddog on April 27, 2007, 05:58:25 PM
That is my general attitude.?
Unfortunately, my wife likes rules.
She is a party pooper.
Being responsible sucks.
So which ones did you like best?
Quote from: hounddog on April 27, 2007, 05:58:25 PM
That is my general attitude.?
Unfortunately, my wife likes rules.
She is a party pooper.
Being responsible sucks.
A police officer who likes to break the rules :rockon:
I'm still waiting on the reviews. :lockedup:
I'm a fan of the Tahoe, but I'm not sure if you want a real truck or a crossover-kinda-thing. Sorry I'm late.
Quote from: hounddog on April 27, 2007, 05:58:25 PM
That is my general attitude.
Unfortunately, my wife likes rules.
She is a party pooper.
Being responsible sucks.
Think of it as looking out for other motorist. A civic duty.
Hey Hounddog. When are you going to tell us what you liked and what you didn't?
I like this Hounddog fellow. He's like Hemi, minus the Mustang trolling. :P
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 01, 2007, 08:27:39 AM
I like this Hounddog fellow. He's like Hemi, minus the Mustang trolling. :P
It's what I do best. :praise:
You keep thinking that old boy.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 01, 2007, 08:53:05 AM
You keep thinking that old boy.
Oh come on.? You have to admit that nobody trolls for Mustangs as well as I do.? Nethead sucks compared to me. :lol:
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 01, 2007, 07:46:07 AM
Hey Hounddog.? When are you going to tell us what you liked and what you didn't?
Sorry, fellas. I have not been feeling too well the last few days. I will get in on here tonight or tomorrow.
Quote from: hounddog on May 01, 2007, 05:08:37 PM
Sorry, fellas.? I have not been feeling too well the last few days.? I will get in on here tonight or tomorrow.?
Don't push yourself, we can wait.
Take care of yourself first, that's what's most important. :ohyeah:
No viagra. And that's an order. Unless your tired of peeing on your shoe.
:lol: Sparkplug always cracks me up.
Quote from: sparkplug on May 02, 2007, 09:57:21 PM
No viagra. And that's an order. Unless your tired of peeing on your shoe.
:mask:
Policy : don't ask/don't tell
Supervising flower planting this afternoon with my two youngest. I will get back here soon to get my info typed. I swear!
hounddog ok.....
Quote from: hounddog on May 03, 2007, 04:27:45 PM
:mask:
Policy : don't ask/don't tell
Supervising flower planting this afternoon with my two youngest. I will get back here soon to get my info typed. I swear!
3 days is too soon, eh? ;)
Sorry guys.? For anyone who still cares at this point!
Freestyle- I hated this thing.? It seemed nothing more than a squashed Explorer, which by the way, I also hated.? Freestyle was too low for me to get in because it required me to lower my head and twist in a way that with diminished balance I had trouble making that manuver.? I did not like the interior, either.? Seemed like much of it was after thought and kinda cheap.? But to be fair, most of the cars look cheap now.? It rode well, but that is not what we are after as a selling point.? It also did not have the big engind, so the power was, well, short of aweful. But, at least the handling was bad. ?5.5
Explorer- Way too small from side to side.? Freestyle had exactly the same problem.? I felt like I was trapped in a sardine can.? How can those of you who own these things be ok with a narrow seat, narrow foot area, narrow area between door and console?? Also, way too top heavy.? 4.0
Expedition- This one was ok, but not fantastic by any means.? It was a little too tall for what we are looking for, but overall it was....well....ok.? We will not be buying Ford, just nothing that was right for us.? 5.5
Edge-? Actually, we liked this one.? Unfortunately, it was still too small.? But my wife really liked the Lincoln version.? Alot.? I liked it almost as much, Ford seems to have a winner here.? 9.5
Fusion-? Another car I really liked, but was too small.? We drove the upper version with the higher horse engine.? That would make a nice city police car!? It had plenty of power and the ride was fantastic, if not just a little too noisy.? But Ford has always built cars that are just a little too noisy.? It is a Ford trait.? 9.5
Nissan Armada-? Wow, is that a nice vehicle overall.? Nissan did a great job with this thing, even if it is just a tad ugly.? The handling was really very highly predictable.? It gave me, errr, my wife no surprises at all.? It has a tight turning radius, and tons and tons of room inside.? I sat in all the seats, the one we drove had the split middle row with the console.? The only place I was uncorfortable was the back row.? The ride was far more civilized than anything in a similar class we drove.? ?The engine has gobs of power, and pulls almost equally to the Hemi powered Durango we drove.? It is slightly less powerful, but it has more than enough for most people.? This vehicle is a winner in my book, and I hate the idea of owning a Datsun.? 8.5
Quest-? I actually liked this one.? It had good room everywhere, and good storage.? I did not believe I would like one, but I did.? It was a decent handling affair, and had decent power.? It seems a very servicable daily user.? Nothing stellar about it, but it was overall a nice ride.? 7.0
Pacifica-? Again, too low for me.? But, handles like a smaller car.? With the 3.5HO we drove, it has plenty of go and good brakes for plenty of no go.? I was pretty impressed with this one, but I just could not get past the $40,000+ price tag.? That is just too much for anything that does not say "made in Germany" on the lable.? It had ample amounts of room in the front, and was good for smaller adults and children in the back.? I liked the all-wheel-drive.? ?They did a nice job on materials, and fit and finish as well.? But not $40,000+ well.? ?I liked it far better than its competitor, the Freestyle.? This car was pretty well thought out, not an adaptation of something else.? 7.5? ?
Grand Caravan, Town and Country-? Believe it or not, this was actually my favorite of all of them.? I had the least amount of trouble getting in and out of it than anything else we looked at.? It has more little gimmicks going for it than anything else we drove.? Dodge has had what, 50 years to perfect it?? It has storage everywhere, and every seat save for the back row was comfortable.? The back row is not comfortable to anyone other than a kid.? It has good cargo in the rear, and with the bigger V-6 had plenty of power.? It has a big drawback compared to others, it seems a little "swayie" in the back.? Or so my wife told me.? But, if a person were to drive it within reason it would be perfectly safe.? It is not a street racer by anymeans, but overall I would give it a two thumbs up.? The one we drove had two movie screens, one for second row, one for third row.? The dealership put the second one in, which is a great idea.? No fighting over movie choice.? ?7.5
Durango-? I had not been in one.? I did not like the looks.? ?But, to get in the doors had plenty of opening to get in, and the level was just about right for me to just turn and sit without going down hardly at all.? It was not the easiet one of all of them to get in, that was the Town and Country, but it was easier than the Armada by about 10%.? It turns so sharply I could hardly believe it, sharper than some full sized cars I have driven.? The ride is pretty good, not as good as Armada, but pretty good.? The power is second to none with the Hemi.? I liked the layout of the cabin about 25% better than the Nissan.? It was layed out more like an American car than the Armada, which looks more like a 90's Japanese car with the confusing button/console? ? layout they had.? ?I also liked the lack of sound/noise coming from the road.? It was just about the quietest large vehicle we drove.? It does not have a higher towing capacity than the Armada, which I do not understand.? It has more power, and is built on a truck chasis.? However, it does have a higher towing capacity than the 1500 Ram with the Hemi.? So go figure????? 8.5
Tahoe-? Yawn.? This is probably the biggest let down of all.? It has lots of room, but not so much when you compare it to the Durango and Armada.? It has power, but not so much when compared to the other two.? It has the ugliest face of any car we looked at by 134%.? ?Yes, that is a statistical calculation!! :tounge:? But, I will say, it does handle well, and it is quiet.? It was only OK for me to get in and out of.? For $42,786 it is just not worth it.? GM has much work to do, they should have not spent the money and left the last one alone.? 6.5
X5 V-8-? Now this is how GM should look to build their Ta-no.? Lots of power, lots of fun, lots of handling, lots of looks from passers-by.? It was short on room, but lots of fun to drive, err, ride in.? Not what we were looking for, but a blast to test drive and the famous BMW quality.? Take note, General Motors, even lowly Nissan has you beaten.? 9.8
(GMC Blazer replacement) Arcadia?-? I thought I would remember what it was called so I did not write it down.? Bad cop, no donut!? I liked it well enough.? It fails at every level, unfortunately.? Not enough handling, typical of a GM suv.? It did not have enough power, which surprised me.? I want to have enough power to not worry about getting out into traffic, and this one would make me wonder.? It has more power than an Explorer, but does that shock anyone?? It did have a very comfortable, but small, cabin.? I liked the seats, but they felt like they were designed for a much smaller person.? I thought the interior room was good, but not enough.? It reminded me alot of the X5 for size to be honest.? Just a little too small, I do not want to get into a SUV and feel cramped.? There is just something not quite right about that!? I actually liked it, it just was not what we were looking for.? 6.9
Lastly-
Honda SUV-? I took good notes, honestly!? I just was not very good about writing down the names for some reason.? I was looking over the outside of them as my wife talked to the salesmen.? I guess I was just in a hurry to get in and look around.? I liked this one.? Alot.? Unfortunatly, I did not like the saleman!? It has good room, good power (for a honda), good handling, good ride, good noise level in the cabin (very low).? What it does not have are comfortable seats.? There is just something about Honda that will not let them build a seat for large people.? They have to build these seats that are small and hard, but I can not imagine they are comfortable to anyone.? Anywhere.? What gives with that?? I did like the layout, and options list.? I like how they group their options together in bundles.? Bundles, that unlike the American counterparts, make sense.? It is one of the most solid feeling SUV's on the road, and is extremely predictable under duress.? hehehe!? ?Or so my wife tells me.? Anyway, I liked this one.? It just was not quite right for us, and we both agreed.? It can be aggrevating to be so close, yet so far away.? ?8.9-9.1? ?(we could not make up our minds about it)
In the end, I think we are going to settle on either the Armada or Durango.? We both liked them, and they both fit our needs very well.? ?As we were looking we made a list of a few things we would like for this vehicle to do, and perhaps sell our truck in the process.? I was the only one who drove it anyway, so why not save the money and get a more versitile vehicle??
Quote from: hounddog on May 07, 2007, 11:21:11 AM
Sorry guys.? For anyone who still cares at this point!
Freestyle- I hated this thing.? It seemed nothing more than a squashed Explorer, which by the way, I also hated.? Freestyle was too low for me to get in because it required me to lower my head and twist in a way that with diminished balance I had trouble making that manuver.? I did not like the interior, either.? Seemed like much of it was after thought and kinda cheap.? But to be fair, most of the cars look cheap now.? It rode well, but that is not what we are after as a selling point.?? It also did not have the big engind, so the power was, well, short of aweful.? But, at least the handling was bad.? ?5.5
Ouch! :mask:
I couldn't disagree more about everything...except for the ingress/egress thing because I can't argue with that for someone in your condition.? For a family station wagon, the power levels are fine as far as I'm concerned.? The gas pedal is in two stages and most people I know only press it to the end of the first stage.? If you press it a little more it will go into the "passing mode" of the transmission and it actually has decent pick-up.? I'm not going to argue with you about the interior because that's personal taste I guess, but I was fairly impressed with it.? The seats are a little narrow, but comfortable otherwise. :huh:
If I were in this position, I'd opt for the Toyota Sienna AWD.
Great ingress/egress, lots of space, great powertrain, a decent amount of luxury (should you be pining for such a thing), and most importantly (for my driving), AWD.
It's not too manly, but hey, when looking at the cost vs. people-mover benefits, IMO minivans own all over SUVs.
Grand Caravan :rockon:
Of course, I'm not biased (see my sig)
We are planning on driving some more on Saturday. Any more good suggestions?
Mazda CX-9, Hyundai Veracruz, Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Kia Sedona/Hyundai Entourage. I've forgotten whether you need a third row, but if you don't, also the Nissan Murano.
Several years ago, I severely inured my back, and my movement was quite restricted for about 6 months. I know it was probably nothing compared to what you are going through, but I found out to my surprise when getting in and out of cars that a lot of the smaller ones were actually easier for me (I'm 6'4" and 240 lbs).
Having the seat level slightly below my normal sitting height and not having to bend my neck were far more important than the size of the vehicle. I also found out that some of the smaller car were better laid out and thought out than many of the SUVs- and when every movement is the result of careful planning than becomes more important than having room to stratch out.
Just a thought.
Quote from: ifcar on May 07, 2007, 04:15:46 PM
Mazda CX-9, Hyundai Veracruz, Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Kia Sedona/Hyundai Entourage. I've forgotten whether you need a third row, but if you don't, also the Nissan Murano.
The hell does he want a HYUNDAI for?
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 07, 2007, 05:55:01 PM
The hell does he want a HYUNDAI for?
He test drove a Honda Pilot, and liked it. The Hyundai is a very similar vehicle.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 07, 2007, 05:53:29 PM
Several years ago, I severely inured my back, and my movement was quite restricted for about 6 months. I know it was probably nothing compared to what you are going through, but I found out to my surprise when getting in and out of cars that a lot of the smaller ones were actually easier for me (I'm 6'4" and 240 lbs).
Having the seat level slightly below my normal sitting height and not having to bend my neck were far more important than the size of the vehicle. I also found out that some of the smaller car were better laid out and thought out than many of the SUVs- and when every movement is the result of careful planning than becomes more important than having room to stratch out.
Just a thought.
Actually, I threw my back out once wrestling in high school. I can honestly say that was far worse than what I go through now. I just have problems with my balance, and get suddenly dizzy every so often. Bending down seems to sometimes to initiate it, too. I can be sitting at the dinner table and suddenly get so dizzy I nearly fall off my chair. Sometimes it is so bad I heave from it. I also have some motor-movement problems in my left leg and really bad in my left arm. I am getting better, but hurting you back is far worse. I just am trying to find something I can pretty much just sit straight in, and then turn my feet in.
We tried a couple cars, but found they were too low and made me bend my head down to enter. Makes me nervous, because if I should fall down my wife would be hard pressed to get me in the car. Even with help.
Quote from: hounddog on May 07, 2007, 11:21:11 AM
Sorry guys. For anyone who still cares at this point!
Freestyle- I hated this thing. It seemed nothing more than a squashed Explorer, which by the way, I also hated. Freestyle was too low for me to get in because it required me to lower my head and twist in a way that with diminished balance I had trouble making that manuver. I did not like the interior, either. Seemed like much of it was after thought and kinda cheap. But to be fair, most of the cars look cheap now. It rode well, but that is not what we are after as a selling point. It also did not have the big engind, so the power was, well, short of aweful. But, at least the handling was bad. 5.5
You know you can't fit in an elephant in a sardine can. If you too big for it well then find something you can fit in. If you want a Durango and can fit comfortably in it then go ahead and get it. And buy me one too.
Hmmm, the X5 isn't what you were looking for.....
LR3? Touareg?
Quote from: ro51092 on May 09, 2007, 09:41:29 PM
Hmmm, the X5 isn't what you were looking for.....
LR3? Touareg?
Limo
What about the Hyundai Entourage, if minivans are on the table?
Get a Ford Territory.
Oh, and move to Australia.
I repeat; what the hel does he want a Hyundai for?
Because it is damn close to being best in class. The Odyssey and Sienna are really the only two that can claim to compete and they both cost a ton more.
Quote from: TBR on May 10, 2007, 11:18:38 AM
Because it is damn close to being best in class. The Odyssey and Sienna are really the only two that can claim to compete and they both cost a ton more.
Nissan Quest. Amazing van.
It isn't as good as the three I mentioned and it costs a lot more than the Hyundai too.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 09:10:19 AM
I repeat; what the hel does he want a Hyundai for?
what the hell is wrong with a hyundai? :confused:
:huh: Personally I think the new Hyundais look great, but I have a hard time believing the reliability's improved greatly.
If it hasn't it has a 10 year warranty, where's the risk?
Quote from: TBR on May 10, 2007, 11:51:19 AM
If it hasn't it has a 10 year warranty, where's the risk?
What happens when that warranty expires?
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 12:04:05 PM
What happens when that warranty expires?
Most people don't keep cars for 10 years, in the U.S. at least.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 11:49:13 AM
:huh: Personally I think the new Hyundais look great, but I have a hard time believing the reliability's improved greatly.
And a lot of people have trouble believing that Toyota botched the quality of the 07 Camry, but the CR reliability survey says both.
Quote from: ifcar on May 10, 2007, 04:01:11 PM
And a lot of people have trouble believing that Toyota botched the quality of the 07 Camry, but the CR reliability survey says both.
Listening to CR is your first mistake. The quality's fine. We're on our second one and our family isn't exactly dumb about Camrys. The 07 is no different than any one before it, quality/reliability-wise.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 09:10:19 AM
I repeat; what the hel does he want a Hyundai for?
I'd buy any of them before I'd buy a Camry :huh:
Quote from: chevyguy06 on May 10, 2007, 05:40:29 PM
I'd buy any of them before I'd buy a Camry :huh:
Good for you. I'm sure you'd enjoy them :cheers:
edit: No point taking shots at me man; I am very happy with what I drive.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 05:41:28 PM
Good for you. I'm sure you'd enjoy them :cheers:
edit: No point taking shots at me man; I am very happy with what I drive.
Not taking shots, just merely stating an opinion.
Quote from: chevyguy06 on May 10, 2007, 05:52:28 PM
Not taking shots, just merely stating an opinion.
Was this thread anything to do about a Camry? ;)
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 05:58:01 PM
Was this thread anything to do about a Camry? ;)
Nope, but it was brought up before I even said anything.
Quote from: chevyguy06 on May 10, 2007, 06:01:37 PM
Nope, but it was brought up before I even said anything.
Where?
edit: Never mind. My stupidity :mask:
Hyundai/Kia has some great offerings, like the Rondo, which IMO looks great.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 05:25:44 PM
Listening to CR is your first mistake. The quality's fine. We're on our second one and our family isn't exactly dumb about Camrys. The 07 is no different than any one before it, quality/reliability-wise.
And all the Hyundais you have experience with have given you problems?
The average new car has no reliability issues for years. It's expected that you wouldn't have problems yet.
Quote from: ifcar on May 10, 2007, 07:01:37 PM
And all the Hyundais you have experience with have given you problems?
Prejudice, my friend. There's a reason their rep is horrible. They're working their asses off right now to fix it.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 08:05:54 PM
Prejudice, my friend. There's a reason their rep is horrible. They're working their asses off right now to fix it.
I'd wager that for the most part, they've already fixed it. I'd buy a Sonata or a last gen Elantra.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 10, 2007, 08:05:54 PM
Prejudice, my friend. There's a reason their rep is horrible.
Prejudice is the reason their reputation (with some) is poor. People who judge current product by past crap. Their reputation problem is not a fault of their current offerings.
Hyundai fixed their quality problems a while ago....
Quote from: ifcar on May 10, 2007, 08:13:38 PM
Prejudice is the reason their reputation (with some) is poor. People who judge current product by past crap. Their reputation problem is not a fault of their current offerings.
All right. I'll try to drive one one of these days. The last Hyundai I've been in is my friend's 2001 Sonata GL. It feels worse than my old '89 AllTrac
You're talking about reliability anyway. You can't judge that from anything but a study.
Quote from: ifcar on May 07, 2007, 04:15:46 PM
Hyundai Veracruz
I saw one this morning and I gotta say that is one sweet looking SUV.
For some reason I don't like the look of the Veracruz. I love the look of the Santa Fe though
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 11, 2007, 09:00:34 AM
For some reason I don't like the look of the Veracruz. I love the look of the Santa Fe though
I think the Santa Fe is defintiely the better looking of the two but the Veracruz is bigger.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 11, 2007, 09:27:50 AM
I think the Santa Fe is defintiely the better looking of the two but the Veracruz is bigger.
True.
Trep, the 07 Camry I've been in had a shitload of plasticky, cheap bits, and a piece of trim fell off when I shut the door. It was a POS. I'm not saying the Hyundai's exactly a tank, but the one I rented felt a LOT more high quality than the camry.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 11, 2007, 01:15:07 PM
Trep, the 07 Camry I've been in had a shitload of plasticky, cheap bits, and a piece of trim fell off when I shut the door. It was a POS. I'm not saying the Hyundai's exactly a tank, but the one I rented felt a LOT more high quality than the camry.
We've had an '07 Camry since soon after they were released. We've had absolutely no problems so far (other than my mom backing it into a pole :lol:) and no bits have broken, and the build quality is no less than the other Camries we've had. Perhaps you had a lemon, but they seem fine to me. :huh:
It wasn't a Lemon, because I've been in a Camry SE, a Camry XLE, and an Avalon, and they all were guilty.
make lemonade out of lemons.