Hey guys, I've mentioned it in passing, but my brother is very close to being ready to pull the trigger on a new car, and I need some help and advice.
The main differences between he and I are our view of premium badges and our requirements for performance. He likes luxury makes and cares a lot about straightline speed, but also does like handling. He wants a pretty good ride, but not overly plush. He doesn't need a lot of feedback like I do. And worst of all, he wants an automatic.
These are the cars that I came up with at first:
BMW 335i 2WD Sedan- He doesn't have the same feelings as I do about BMWs, so I actually think this car is perfect for him. Not incredibly involving, but devastatingly fast, and definitely a step or three up dynamically from the E320. It's got enough power that it can make up for being an automatic. It's horribly overpriced, though, and the first number they gave my brother on a lease (over the phone, albeit) was $750 a month, more than the Boxster.
Audi A4 3.2 Quattro- This is my choice. Good power, AWD security, great looks, and what I thought was a DSG transmission. Although, I can't get anyone to confirm or deny if it has a DSG. I'm going to take a look at it later today. It also rolls in about 5 grand less than the BMW.
Infiniti G35 Sport- The sort of left field candidate. It's not that it's not a good car, it's that the only Infiniti dealership in the area is very out of the way. The power of the BMW, and a premium options for less than the A4's price. I mean, Bluetooth, navi, radar cruise control, and a lot of other trick stuff that he'd like. And for $1500 more, we can get 4 wheel active steering.
I can't think of anything else. I think he'd prefer RWD, even if he doesn't get a whole lot of use out of it, but AWD is also on the table. He might even get a kick out of starter buttons, but on the BMW, I'd go for the Comfort Access.
Personally I'd buy a 335i. I was very close to getting one until a family crisis arose, and they're lovely cars. We test drove 3, and it's a stunning drive.
Sounds like he'll like the BMW. They are made today to meet his requirements.
A4 is not DSG. The only Audi that has DSG is the A3.
I would also propose he drive the IS350. My main gripe with that car is that its automatic only, but since he's getting an automatic it shouldn't matter much. Outside of that the G35 is also a good choice, especially if he would appreciate the extra room (coming from an E-Class after all).
Why does he not save the money and get a 5-door GTI with DSG?
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 23, 2007, 09:42:34 AM
Why does he not save the money and get a 5-door GTI with DSG?
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg457353#msg457353 date=1179934507
The main differences between he and I are our view of premium badges and our requirements for performance.? He likes luxury makes etc...
Just because he likes it, doesn't mean he has to have it. ;)
Perhaps Raza could convince him to think practically.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 23, 2007, 09:39:44 AM
A4 is not DSG. The only Audi that has DSG is the A3.
I would also propose he drive the IS350. My main gripe with that car is that its automatic only, but since he's getting an automatic it shouldn't matter much. Outside of that the G35 is also a good choice, especially if he would appreciate the extra room (coming from an E-Class after all).
I could never recommend that he drive a Lexus, and I don't think he would go for it either. He doesn't particularly like Lexus.
Thanks for the heads-up on the transmission. Seems like that won't be a selling point then. Maybe he'll like AWD.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 23, 2007, 09:46:50 AM
Just because he likes it, doesn't mean he has to have it. ;)
Perhaps Raza could convince him to think practically.
He'd never buy one. He hates hatchbacks, and the GTI has more than enough kit for me, not enough for him.
Are they still selling the S60R?
I think they are. Check it out.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:52:04 AM
He'd never buy one. He hates hatchbacks, and the GTI has more than enough kit for me, not enough for him.
Are they still selling the S60R?
Yes, and you should look at it.
It is monster fun, and you can get it in a blue very similar to the Viggen! Or black with the orange interior (like my mom's) is also excellent.
Best seats you'll ever find.
Quote from: Champ on May 23, 2007, 09:57:03 AM
Yes, and you should look at it.
It is monster fun, and you can get it in a blue very similar to the Viggen! Or black with the orange interior (like my mom's) is also excellent.
Best seats you'll ever find.
I don't know about that. The Viggen's are amazing.
It makes less power with the automatic, right? I will check it out.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:59:38 AM
I don't know about that. The Viggen's are amazing.
It makes less power with the automatic, right? I will check it out.
Not sure about power differences with tranny.
If you liked the Viggen seats, you will like the S60R's. They are a little bigger and very soft. I wouldn't imagine the Viggen seats to accomodate a larger person very well.
If power is paramount, handling is moderately important, and a comfortable ride desired, a G35 non-Sport seems ideal. And it's probably $8k-$10k cheaper than the BMW, which I would consider the second choice here. The A4 isn't a good choice for someone who wants maximum power over feel.
Again though Infiniti's infrastructure makes it a hard choice. I'll have to see if more dealers have opened.
The A4 would be my choice (big surprise!), because it has the refinement and handling at less of a price than the BMW. A plus for me is the lesser social cache that an Audi has - too dangerous for me as a contractor to arrive in a Bimmer. My clients would assume I was porking them! For your bro, it sounds like the status of the BMW coupled with its power might fit his needs. Although, if his need for power surpasses his need for status, he should be all over the G35. I've driven the '07 and the thing is a monster, plus it's way more refined and classy than the '06 that I drove. Summing it up -
Power and price = G35
Refinement, handling, AWD = A4
Status, refinement, power = 335 i
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 10:53:16 AM
Again though Infiniti's infrastructure makes it a hard choice. I'll have to see if more dealers have opened.
It's a price difference of many thousands of dollars. I'd say that makes it worth a drive to a dealership.
I would suggest the 335i, it seems like it would suit him perfectly. You may not particularly like it, but I bet it will work well with him. It seems pretty logical.
Oh, and the "comfort access" is so incredibly worthless. It's a hell of a lot more frustrating than it is beneficial, plus turning the key is always satisfying.
Now that I'm thinking about it, the BMW system is just crappy in general--with or without the comfort access, there's still the starter button.
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on May 23, 2007, 11:02:53 AM
Now that I'm thinking about it, the BMW system is just crappy in general--with or without the comfort access, there's still the starter button.
I like Mercedes' the best. I like push-button, though.
BMW's regular system sucks more. 500 bucks is very little to pay to avoid that idiocy for the next 3-5 years.
Quote from: 850CSi on May 23, 2007, 11:06:35 AM
I like Mercedes' the best. I like push-button, though.
Is that the one where they give you a card?
I always liked the way the button was on the shifter, that is a great place for it.
Is this the same brother that refuses to learn how to drive stick? :rolleyes:
When's the new C-class available? I wouldn't get one for myself, but it looks good and I imagine it would be a good choice for a non-car person.
My choice would probably be the infiniti due to value.
If he goes for the A4, I'd get the 2.0 in FWD format. Anyone who refuses to learn stick isn't going to appreciate the difference between RWD, FWD, and AWD, so just get the cheaper option.
I like the 335 but still think it's a bit of a ripoff.
Quote from: Lebowski on May 23, 2007, 11:10:00 AM
Is this the same brother that refuses to learn how to drive stick? :rolleyes:
When's the new C-class available? I wouldn't get one for myself, but it looks good and I imagine it would be a good choice for a non-car person.
My choice would probably be the infiniti due to value.
If he goes for the A4, I'd get the 2.0 in FWD format. Anyone who refuses to learn stick isn't going to appreciate the difference between RWD, FWD, and AWD, so just get the cheaper option.
I like the 335 but still think it's a bit of a ripoff.
It's damn near impossible anywhere in the snow belt to even find a FWD Audi. Haven't seen one around here in years.
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on May 23, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
Is that the one where they give you a card?
I always liked the way the button was on the shifter, that is a great place for it.
I like that one too, but I was talking more about the standard key fob. It's neat how you turn it and it then holds it by itself until the car starts.
Quote from: saxonyron on May 23, 2007, 11:12:59 AM
It's damn near impossible anywhere in the snow belt to even find a FWD Audi. Haven't seen one around here in years.
I'm in Toronto and I see FWD ones all the time. :huh:
Drove A4.
Bailed on 335.
Full report later.
Okay, so I'm back. Drove a fully spec'd 3.2.
The car is really great looking. With the demise of the C class, this is the undisputed best looking car in class. The interior is perfectly built. Audis and VWs really do know how to make quality interiors.
But, this isn't a full on review, so I won't give you the song and dance, but driving this car was one hell of an experience. The ride is well controlled, it's fast, and it handles curves and bumps with aplomb. I really enjoyed driving it. The transmission is fast acting and smart, and it came with paddle shifters. The paddle shifters work well, shifting quickly and even blipping the throttle on downshifts. Makes you wonder why you would buy a fiddly SMG.
But there are a few problems with the car. The paddles are steering wheel mounted and not column mounted, so when flicking through corners you're searching for them instead of having them fixed in one position. They are single purpose, though, which I like. I've heard BMW paddles flick in for upshifts and out for downshifts, and I don't like that, since you'd have to move your fingers on the inside and make an unnatural motion. The handbrake is also tucked away neatly under the armrest, which means you have to move the armrest to use the handbrake, and because the armrest is in a weird position, getting to the shifter is odd, which made me thankful for the paddles. Other than that rather glaring fault, the interior ergonomics were very good.
There's not a lot of rear legroom, which is worrying, frankly, since his car is usually the one we take when a bunch of us (friends, not family) take when we go out. But, I don't think he'll care much.
The sport mode in the transmission works quite well too. My brother might not use the paddles very much, but he would enjoy the sport mode. If I had to take the car from him, I wouldn't mind this one, even with the automatic.
Although, there is one other thing that seems strange to me. The throttle response is razor sharp. Too sharp, almost; it seems artificially boosted, and the car seems to hold on to your inputs even when you let off. So, if you were accelerating and then you let off the gas, it would continue to accelerate for a moment before laying off. Maybe it's because of the engine's torque curve, but I've never driven another car that does this. Ron, have you noticed anything like that?
I bailed on driving the 335i because traffic was really bad and the cops were out in force. Three people were pulled over in the time I was at the Audi dealership. I figured there was no point in going for it today. I will eventually, though.
Is he going to test drive it as well?
Quote from: ifcar on May 23, 2007, 05:16:33 PM
Is he going to test drive it as well?
Yes, he will. I'm just whittling away and giving him my impressions.
Quote from: Lebowski on May 23, 2007, 11:10:00 AM
Is this the same brother that refuses to learn how to drive stick? :rolleyes:
When's the new C-class available? I wouldn't get one for myself, but it looks good and I imagine it would be a good choice for a non-car person.
My choice would probably be the infiniti due to value.
If he goes for the A4, I'd get the 2.0 in FWD format. Anyone who refuses to learn stick isn't going to appreciate the difference between RWD, FWD, and AWD, so just get the cheaper option.
I like the 335 but still think it's a bit of a ripoff.
Yeah, I only have the one. He likes the responsiveness of RWD, but he's spun the E320 before, and I'm sure that he would enjoy AWD. Think of him in the sort of same position that Dazzle was in when he was buying his BMW. He wants a good car, but isn't dedicated enough to work for one.
And I wouldn't write off the new C class. Evo gave it 4 and a half stars. I was going to post the review as soon as they put it online. However, this is coming from a problem he had with a stupid design on the Mercedes that caused damage when changing a tire, and made him skip a day of work to get it fixed, and it costed over a grand. He's not considering a Mercedes again, and won't be for a very long time.
Also, the closest dealer to me doesn't stock FWD Audis, other than the TT and A3.
Get the 2.0T. The 3.2 is not worth it.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 05:32:32 PM
Get the 2.0T. The 3.2 is not worth it.
2.0T with the automatic won't be quick enough for him.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 05:38:50 PM
2.0T with the automatic won't be quick enough for him.
3.2 with the auto is 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. the 2.0T auto is in the high 6's. I've timed one on a test drive.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 05:44:11 PM
3.2 with the auto is 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. the 2.0T auto is in the high 6's. I've timed one on a test drive.
According to the manufacturer, the 3.2 is 6.7 and the 2.0T is 7.5 seconds.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 05:44:11 PM
3.2 with the auto is 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. the 2.0T auto is in the high 6's. I've timed one on a test drive.
Ro, man, sorry, but if the 2.0T engine was faster, there's no point in them offering a 3.2
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 23, 2007, 05:50:22 PM
Ro, man, sorry, but if the 2.0T engine was faster, there's no point in them offering a 3.2
Audi offered on the previous generation A6 a 2.7T V6 and a 4.2 V8, and the 2.7T was faster.
The 4.2 might have had a bit more passing power though.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 23, 2007, 05:50:22 PM
Ro, man, sorry, but if the 2.0T engine was faster, there's no point in them offering a 3.2
It's a lot quieter.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 05:48:11 PM
According to the manufacturer, the 3.2 is 6.7 and the 2.0T is 7.5 seconds.
Honestly, how often is your brother going to be doing 0-60 flat out? I think the 2.0T would provide plenty of power, be more economical and save a considerable amount on the list price.
1st choice = BMW 335i
Positives for the 335i is the engine, chassis and prestige. Negative is price.
2nd choice = G35
Positive is that for the price of 328i you get a more powerfull car with plenty of features. It is not as good as the 335i dynamics wise. But it comes darn close to it then any other car on market.
I don't think price is that large a consideration. He does drive an E320, and that's around 50 I believe.
You know this debate whether the 2.0T is faster sparked some interest from me, and I decided to do some mag digging. The problem was most of the 2.0T tested were manual, while the 3.2 tended to be automatic.? Well here's what I found.
From our favorite magazine, C&D tested a 2.0T manual to be 0-60 at 7.2 sec. and quartermile at 15.5 @92mph.
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9478/audi-a4-20t-quattro-page4.html
And C&D tested the 3.2 automatic at 15.7 secs in the quartermile, the online version didn't have more data.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10387/2005-audi-a4-32-quattro.html
From Motortrend I only managed to find a 3.2 automatic time.? It was 0-60 at 7.1 and quartermile at 15.1 @ 93.4 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0509_sport_sedan_comparison/specs_price.html
Just when things looked good for the 3.2 auto, I found a R&T time of 6.4 0-60mph and 14.9 @ 94.2 mph for the quarter for the 2.0T manual
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=2482
So I guess it's hard to say.? The fastest time is from R&T for the 2.0T manual.? Also across the same magazine (C&D) the 2.0 manual is also faster.? But one can see alot of variation in the times, and considering the 2.0T in question here is automatic, it could really swing either way.? But I can't really say one is faster than the other.? I do find it interesting Audi has such little straightline distinction between the cars, a far cry from say a 335i's complete and utter destruction of a 328i in a race.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 23, 2007, 05:50:22 PM
Ro, man, sorry, but if the 2.0T engine was faster, there's no point in them offering a 3.2
Sorry bro, but Audi already did this with the A6 4.2 and the 2.7T. Also, 3.2 V6 sounds a lot better than 2.0L I4. People would pay extra for the V6 when they're just getting a quieter and more powerful engine (that's actually slower), just like the C5 A6.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 06:55:40 PM
Sorry bro, but Audi already did this with the A6 4.2 and the 2.7T. Also, 3.2 V6 sounds a lot better than 2.0L I4. People would pay extra for the V6 when they're just getting a quieter and more powerful engine (that's actually slower), just like the C5 A6.
:mask: OOPS.
Except in this case, Audi quotes the 3.2 as being quicker than the 2.0.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 05:13:54 PM
Okay, so I'm back. Drove a fully spec'd 3.2.
.... The handbrake is also tucked away neatly under the armrest, which means you have to move the armrest to use the handbrake, and because the armrest is in a weird position, getting to the shifter is odd, which made me thankful for the paddles. Other than that rather glaring fault, the interior ergonomics were very good.
....There's not a lot of rear legroom, which is worrying, frankly, since his car is usually the one we take when a bunch of us (friends, not family) take when we go out. But, I don't think he'll care much.
.....Although, there is one other thing that seems strange to me. The throttle response is razor sharp. Too sharp, almost; it seems artificially boosted, and the car seems to hold on to your inputs even when you let off. So, if you were accelerating and then you let off the gas, it would continue to accelerate for a moment before laying off. Maybe it's because of the engine's torque curve, but I've never driven another car that does this. Ron, have you noticed anything like that?
Nice review, Raza! I agree about the handbrake - everything in the car is so well laid out, but the handbrake lifts the armrest up an inch when it's fully engaged. Sort of annoying, but I don't even think about it any more. As for the throttle, you're right. It sort of hangs onto the revs when you blip the throttle. Not as satisfying a heel-toe car as my A6 was. Don't know if that's the throttle mapping or a direct lazy linkage, but I do wish the revs would drop quicker. Ro51092, do you have the same experience?
I wouldn't want to pay nearly $40K for a car with a 4-banger.
And there's no way the 2.0T is faster than the 3.2 with the same transmission.
Quote from: 850CSi on May 23, 2007, 07:21:05 PM
I wouldn't want to pay nearly $40K for a car with a 4-banger.
I would.
(http://autoblog.it/uploads/lotus_exige_s_01.jpg)
My car ain't bad either.
Quote from: saxonyron on May 23, 2007, 07:19:42 PM
Nice review, Raza!? I agree about the handbrake - everything in the car is so well laid out, but the handbrake lifts the armrest up an inch when it's fully engaged. Sort of annoying, but I don't even think about it any more.?
Yeah, that bothered me in my old car too.
pwn3d! :lol:
Quote from: 850CSi on May 23, 2007, 07:21:05 PM
I wouldn't want to pay nearly $40K for a car with a 4-banger.
I would have agreed before I got my A4. I never even think about the cylinder count - I just enjoy the acceleration. The FSI engine's torque curve gives a real nice delivery. You just don't feel like you're in a 4 cyl....until I go to the pump and calculate my 25 mpg. :rockon:
:lol:
Quote from: saxonyron on May 23, 2007, 07:19:42 PM
Nice review, Raza! I agree about the handbrake - everything in the car is so well laid out, but the handbrake lifts the armrest up an inch when it's fully engaged. Sort of annoying, but I don't even think about it any more. As for the throttle, you're right. It sort of hangs onto the revs when you blip the throttle. Not as satisfying a heel-toe car as my A6 was. Don't know if that's the throttle mapping or a direct lazy linkage, but I do wish the revs would drop quicker. Ro51092, do you have the same experience?
I get that same thing.
Quote from: 850CSi on May 23, 2007, 07:23:19 PM
Yeah, that bothered me in my old car too.
You mean the B6 did that too???? I do love Audis, but that is sort of an easy to fix faux pas. Wassupwiddat?
The revs not dropping quickly might be something just programed into the ECU for emissions. They tend to do that with many cars nowadays.? :huh:
IS350 FTW! 0-60 that is...oh, and quarter mile, and dealer experience IMO, don't rule it out till you test drive one and get a taste of the Lexus experience and fun it is to run 0-60 flat sometimes. :devil:
You know what I'd get out of those options.
In any case, if getting the A4 I would also go with the 2.0T.
Since your brother wants an auto, make sure to test that when you drive the 335i. The BMW mags are raving about the auto trans in that car. Its a ZF unit that supposedly shifts well and really quickly. The trans in the 335i is different from the one in the 328i. 335i is ZF while 328i is GM. The GM unit is not bad but the ZF is getting rave reviews.
I'd like to get your impressions.
Ro pwned 850. :lol:
I'd get the 335.
Quote from: saxonyron on May 23, 2007, 07:24:59 PM
You mean the B6 did that too???? I do love Audis, but that is sort of an easy to fix faux pas. Wassupwiddat?
The handbrake position really is a pain in the ass. BTW, why does that door lock button in the back lock, but not unlock?
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 07:32:57 PM
The handbrake position really is a pain in the ass. BTW, why does that door lock button in the back lock, but not unlock?
So kids can't open the door by accident? :huh:
Quote from: Raghavan on May 23, 2007, 07:34:12 PM
So kids can't open the door by accident? :huh:
But the doors dont have conventional locks. If you lock the doors, and pull the handle 1 time, it will unlock, the second it will open. But I guess thats what child lock is for. I just dont think I'd have put those locks on the doors had I been the one designing it.
Oh, i hate cars that unlock when you pull the handle once. Sometimes i pull the door handle after i lock it just to make sure it's completely closed.
I did that on a Jetta once while the car was moving. Scared the crap out of me when the door opened. :mask:
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 07:32:57 PM
The handbrake position really is a pain in the ass. BTW, why does that door lock button in the back lock, but not unlock?
Funny thing is, I never noticed. And I'm usually fairly curious! :huh: My guess is security, so the kid doesn't unlock the door by mistake while he's sitting alone in the parking lot and the kidnapper is trying to get in the car. Yeah - that's it!
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg457903#msg457903 date=1179964091
According to the manufacturer, the 3.2 is 6.7 and the 2.0T is 7.5 seconds.?
The manufacturer had a vested interest in getting you to pay up for the more expensive, slower car.
Seriously, w/ the 2.0t there's absolutely no reason to pay up for the 3.2.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg457886#msg457886 date=1179962958
? However, this is coming from a problem he had with a stupid design on the Mercedes that caused damage when changing a tire, and made him skip a day of work to get it fixed, and it costed over a grand.? He's not considering a Mercedes again, and won't be for a very long time.
?
I'd really like to hear that backstory.
Also interesting he's considering a 335i over a G35 yet "a grand" is apparently a huge amount of money.
Quote from: 565 on May 23, 2007, 06:38:56 PM
You know this debate whether the 2.0T is faster sparked some interest from me, and I decided to do some mag digging. The problem was most of the 2.0T tested were manual, while the 3.2 tended to be automatic. Well here's what I found.
From our favorite magazine, C&D tested a 2.0T manual to be 0-60 at 7.2 sec. and quartermile at 15.5 @92mph.
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9478/audi-a4-20t-quattro-page4.html
And C&D tested the 3.2 automatic at 15.7 secs in the quartermile, the online version didn't have more data.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10387/2005-audi-a4-32-quattro.html
From Motortrend I only managed to find a 3.2 automatic time. It was 0-60 at 7.1 and quartermile at 15.1 @ 93.4 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0509_sport_sedan_comparison/specs_price.html
Just when things looked good for the 3.2 auto, I found a R&T time of 6.4 0-60mph and 14.9 @ 94.2 mph for the quarter for the 2.0T manual
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=2482
So I guess it's hard to say. The fastest time is from R&T for the 2.0T manual. Also across the same magazine (C&D) the 2.0 manual is also faster. But one can see alot of variation in the times, and considering the 2.0T in question here is automatic, it could really swing either way. But I can't really say one is faster than the other. I do find it interesting Audi has such little straightline distinction between the cars, a far cry from say a 335i's complete and utter destruction of a 328i in a race.
I can guarantee that a 2.0T 6 speed would be quicker than a 3.2 auto, the TFSI 2.0T is that strong. But auto to auto, I doubt it.
And 6.4 and 14.9 seems unrealistic.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:12:03 PM
I can guarantee that a 2.0T 6 speed would be quicker than a 3.2 auto, the TFSI 2.0T is that strong. But auto to auto, I doubt it.
And 6.4 and 14.9 seems unrealistic.
I've heard the 2.0 6mt in the high 6's. The 6.4 could have been a super strong engine, or maybe the proverbial ringer. Doubt R&T would fall for that, though. But yeah, that damn 4 banger has a serious set of balls. Not like my old 2.7T, but it really puts a smile on my face. I'd be hard pressed to go for the 3.2 for the extra $5k or so, just to add a couple hundred pounds over the front axle and get worse gas mileage.
Quote from: Lebowski on May 23, 2007, 08:56:02 PM
I'd really like to hear that backstory.
Also interesting he's considering a 335i over a G35 yet "a grand" is apparently a huge amount of money.
Have you ever changed a tire?
You take the lugs out, take the wheel off, then put the spare on and the lugs back in. Right?
Wrong.
The Mercedes spare is special. And it uses special lugs. Special lugs which can only be used on the spare, and if you use the regular lugs on the spare, your car will not move. The car locked up, he had to get it towed to Cherry Hill, pay exorbitant prices for the tow, and then they had to replace the brake rotors because they were damaged. Total repair came to $900 and change plus the tow. The money isn't the issue, he's been so enraged by the idiotic design and the time and frustration that he doesn't want to have anything to do with Mercedes anymore.
This throttle thing really worries me. I'll see if the BMW does the same thing. It's been a while since I've driven a newer automatic car, but if this is happening to Ro and Ron as well, then it's something of which to be wary.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg458134#msg458134 date=1179976323
I can guarantee that a 2.0T 6 speed would be quicker than a 3.2 auto, the TFSI 2.0T is that strong.? But auto to auto, I doubt it.?
And 6.4 and 14.9 seems unrealistic.
Yeah there is alot of variation in the ET's but not so much in the trap speeds. It seems both the 2.0T and the 3.2 auto trap around the mid to low 90's, which makes them comparable to a GTI or Civic Si.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg458149#msg458149 date=1179976666
Have you ever changed a tire?
You take the lugs out, take the wheel off, then put the spare on and the lugs back in.? Right?
Wrong.?
The Mercedes spare is special.? And it uses special lugs.? Special lugs which can only be used on the spare, and if you use the regular lugs on the spare, your car will not move.? The car locked up, he had to get it towed to Cherry Hill, pay exorbitant prices for the tow, and then they had to replace the brake rotors because they were damaged.? Total repair came to $900 and change plus the tow.? The money isn't the issue, he's been so enraged by the idiotic design and the time and frustration that he doesn't want to have anything to do with Mercedes anymore.?
That's ridiculous, I understand his hatred of Mercedes. Plus, he had to skip a day of work for it too.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:17:46 PM
Have you ever changed a tire?
You take the lugs out, take the wheel off, then put the spare on and the lugs back in. Right?
Wrong.
The Mercedes spare is special. And it uses special lugs. Special lugs which can only be used on the spare, and if you use the regular lugs on the spare, your car will not move. The car locked up, he had to get it towed to Cherry Hill, pay exorbitant prices for the tow, and then they had to replace the brake rotors because they were damaged. Total repair came to $900 and change plus the tow. The money isn't the issue, he's been so enraged by the idiotic design and the time and frustration that he doesn't want to have anything to do with Mercedes anymore.
Sounds like it was your brother's fault. Not trying to be rude or mean, just speaking my mind. :huh:
Don't the Mercedes have the little red button you hit when things like that happen? I think i remember seeing one before, it's supposed to be like onstar right?
Quote from: Minpin on May 23, 2007, 09:26:54 PM
Sounds like it was your brother's fault. Not trying to be rude or mean, just speaking my mind.? :huh:
Ehh, it was probably a situation where he didn't read the Mercedes instructions to change the wheel, and why would he if it's such a simple thing to do?
Why no AWD G35?
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on May 23, 2007, 09:28:33 PM
Ehh, it was probably a situation where he didn't read the Mercedes instructions to change the wheel, and why would he if it's such a simple thing to do?
If it were my car I would have read the manual front to back, only in my native language of course, but you get what im saying. I would like to know everything about my car, but that's just me.
But yea I can understand him hating Mercedes for his own mess up, clearly it's their fault.
Quote from: Minpin on May 23, 2007, 09:28:23 PM
Don't the Mercedes have the little red button you hit when things like that happen? I think i remember seeing one before, it's supposed to be like onstar right?
It's a subscription service.
Quote from: Minpin on May 23, 2007, 09:30:43 PM
If it were my car I would have read the manual front to back, only in my native language of course, but you get what im saying. I would like to know everything about my car, but that's just me.
But yea I can understand him hating Mercedes for his own mess up, clearly it's their fault.
Yeah, I bet you consult the manual when filling up your gas too.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:33:38 PM
It's a subscription service.
Ah. I've always wanted to press the button. It's so.....red. :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 23, 2007, 09:28:55 PM
Why no AWD G35?
That's possible. He didn't express a want for AWD too much, I just thought of it.
Quote from: Minpin on May 23, 2007, 09:30:43 PM
If it were my car I would have read the manual front to back, only in my native language of course, but you get what im saying. I would like to know everything about my car, but that's just me.
But yea I can understand him hating Mercedes for his own mess up, clearly it's their fault.
Why would you read the instruccions to changing a tire? It's simple:
jack up car, undo lug nuts, take off bad wheel, place good wheel on, put lug nuts on, jack car down, clean up.
Obviously it wasn't Mercedes' fault, but that is a horribly dumb design flaw.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg458177#msg458177 date=1179977678
That's possible.? He didn't express a want for AWD too much, I just thought of it.
well you mentioned the safety(or security) of awd a couple times for the audi, figured it was important.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:34:02 PM
Yeah, I bet you consult the manual when filling up your gas too.
What I meant was I would have read the manual beforehand like when he first recieved the car. That way he would have known about the sizing differences. It possibly could have prevented the problem, but either way...onwards. Out of the ones so far i'm inclined to pick the 335i. I really do love that car. :wub: I bet if you showed up in your boxter they would let you take it home overnight.
Quote from: Minpin on May 23, 2007, 09:36:43 PM
What I meant was I would have read the manual beforehand like when he first recieved the car. That way he would have known about the sizing differences. It possibly could have prevented the problem, but either way...onwards. Out of the ones so far i'm inclined to pick the 335i. I really do love that car. :wub: I bet if you showed up in your boxter they would let you take it home overnight.
Even with a doughnut spare you use the same lugs. I've changed the tire on my car that way. This is his second E320 of the same generation. The first one didn't have this issue.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 23, 2007, 09:36:05 PM
well you mentioned the safety(or security) of awd a couple times for the audi, figured it was important.
It's a good idea, surely. And the fact that it's automatic only doesn't affect him. I'll check it out.
The new CTS doesn't come out for a few more months but its something I'd take into consideration.
Quote from: Raza on May 23, 2007, 09:19:14 PM
This throttle thing really worries me. I'll see if the BMW does the same thing. It's been a while since I've driven a newer automatic car, but if this is happening to Ro and Ron as well, then it's something of which to be wary.
I consider it a minor design flaw. Simply a lazy throttle return that you really do adjust to pretty quickly. If as someone mentioned, it's done to keep some Eco-warrior bureaucrat happy, chances are they're not about to change the design. I really haven't thought of it in a long time until this discussion came up. It's no big deal and you soon compensate for it subconsciously. Hasn't taken away too much of my Fahrvergnugen. :lol:
Couple points:
No way the 2.0T I4 is faster than the 3.1L V6. I am amazed to see people comparing automatic times to manuals times and thinking they are even remotely similar (although, if the A4 had a DSG I could see the point). A 2.0T automatic will be significantly slowering than a 2.0T manual. The only exception would be if the person was planning on getting an aftermarket chip...then it might make sense to get the 2.0T for speed.
It seems like this topic comes up in every thread involving the A4. The 3.1L V6 is not a marketing gimic...it is a more powerful engine, plain and simple.
On the spare tire issue...if that's a concern I think I should mention that out of the 3er, C-Class, and A4 the A4 offers a distinct advantage (that I actually got some use out of): The A4 has a full-size spare (a "fifth wheel" that is identical to the other four), the 3er has no spare (run flat tires), and the C-Class has its own problems as mentioned above. This ended up being extremely helpful for me on one trip from Montreal to NJ where I had a tire blowout on the NJ Turnpike. No need to tow or anything, I just put the spare on and got the blowout replaced at my own convenience. On a 3er I would have had ~50 miles to find a dealer that would still have hopefully been open (this was late in the evening), and I would have to drive in limp mode (no speeds above 50 MPH). Donuts offer similar issues: limited speed and capabilities, and you want to get them fixed ASAP.
Anyway I'm glad to hear you liked the A4. Its a shame your brother doesn't like manual transmissions. IMHO a manual really complements a car like the A4.
Like Minpin, if it were my car I would know about something like that. I just know things like that about my own car. However, it does seem like a stupid design and sounds like a reasonable mistake. While I would never make a similar mistake on my on car, if, say, my mom asked me to change the tire on her car I wouldn't read the manual before doing it.
Sounds like it's happened before:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/mercedes_c240.html
Quote from: Lebowski on May 24, 2007, 08:58:36 AM
Like Minpin, if it were my car I would know about something like that. I just know things like that about my own car. However, it does seem like a stupid design and sounds like a reasonable mistake. While I would never make a similar mistake on my on car, if, say, my mom asked me to change the tire on her car I wouldn't read the manual before doing it.
Sounds like it's happened before:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/mercedes_c240.html
The tow truck guy said he sees it quite often.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 23, 2007, 07:22:51 PM
I would.
My car ain't bad either.
It's part of the reason why I'd rather have a Corvette or M3 than an Elise.
Quote from: saxonyron on May 23, 2007, 07:24:05 PM
I would have agreed before I got my A4.? I never even think about the cylinder count - I just enjoy the acceleration. The FSI engine's torque curve gives a real nice delivery.? You just don't feel like you're in a 4 cyl....until I go to the pump and calculate my 25 mpg.? :rockon:
:lol:
Yeah, but it's not as fast as the 325/8i, and I wouldn't spend $40K on a 328i either.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg458151#msg458151 date=1179976754
This throttle thing really worries me.? I'll see if the BMW does the same thing.? It's been a while since I've driven a newer automatic car, but if this is happening to Ro and Ron as well, then it's something of which to be wary.
Don't know about the Autos (never driven an auto 3-series), but I know the revs fall off really fast in my car.
The 4-cyl in the 9-5 is really powerful, but I think it holds back sales because of people thinking like 850CSi - They just "want" a 6-cyl, regardless of if it actually has more power or not.
And for good reason: there is no replacement for displacement.
And in this case for $40K I want something faster to 60 than 6 seconds.
Quote from: 850CSi on May 24, 2007, 01:06:48 PM
And for good reason: there is no replacement for displacement.
Yes there is, its called forced induction. :devil:
QuoteYes there is, its called forced induction.
I personally prefer NA engines; to each his own. ;)
Quote from: 850CSi on May 24, 2007, 01:08:25 PM
And in this case for $40K I want something faster to 60 than 6 seconds.
You can do that in under $25k USD.
(http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/F/P/14_pp_07camry_missionhill.jpg)
Quote from: 850CSi on May 24, 2007, 01:13:18 PM
I personally prefer NA engines; to each his own. ;)
Hard to get away from the extreme thrust of 2.3 turbo... I tried once and turned right around :D
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg458556#msg458556 date=1180027241
The tow truck guy said he sees it quite often.
Yes, but did you ask of the time he's seen it, what proportion was it a man vs. woman changing the tire? ;)
Quote from: Lebowski on May 24, 2007, 02:16:02 PM
Yes, but did you ask of the time he's seen it, what proportion was it a man vs. woman changing the tire?? ?;)
Only women drive MB's...
Quote from: 850CSi on May 24, 2007, 01:13:18 PM
I personally prefer NA engines; to each his own. ;)
Preferring is preferring. But it is clearly a replacement.
Maybe I should tell him to get a GT500. Stick is so easy in a car like that.
A Vespers Blue Holden Calais-V V8.
Six litres, six speeds, less than six seconds to 100km/h.
This is so stupid, it?s laughable. He wants something quick, doesn't care about steering feel too much, then why is he looking at a overpriced Golf that?s no faster than a Civic Si/Sentra SE-R?
He seems like the PERFECT person for the Lexus IS350, and with Lexus' reliability, and renowned dealer Service if he ever does have to pay a visit, it seems like the obvious choice.
Some other BETTER options would be the G35 (Easy choice over the A4...) and Of Course 335i.
My car did 15's, and 15's aren't quick.
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 27, 2007, 12:12:39 AM
This is so stupid, it?s laughable. He wants something quick, doesn't care about steering feel too much, then why is he looking at a overpriced Golf that?s no faster than a Civic Si/Sentra SE-R?
He seems like the PERFECT person for the Lexus IS350, and with Lexus' reliability, and renowned dealer Service if he ever does have to pay a visit, it seems like the obvious choice.
Some other BETTER options would be the G35 (Easy choice over the A4...) and Of Course 335i.
My car did 15's, and 15's aren't quick.
He has a point, though i'm not sure about the renowned dealer service. That mostly depends dealer to dealer.
Quote from: Raghavan on May 27, 2007, 12:30:30 AM
He has a point, though i'm not sure about the renowned dealer service. That mostly depends dealer to dealer.
Hey, you're not supposed to agree. You have to call me a troll remeber? Then 2 weeks later Raza's Brother will agree with me, and everyone will look dumb. You ruined my whole plan....
As for Lexus' dealer service, I hear as a whole, they are all really good.
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 27, 2007, 12:35:37 AM
Hey, you're not supposed to agree. You have to call me a troll remeber? Then 2 weeks later Raza's Brother will agree with me, and everyone will look dumb. You ruined my whole plan....
As for Lexus' dealer service, I hear as a whole, they are all really good.
Oh, ok.
Let me try again.
HEY YOU STUPID RETARD UR A LEXUS TROLL LEXUS ARE SNOOZEFEST CARZ Z0MG YOU SHOULD BE BANNED JUST FOR SAYING THAT GO AWAY YOU TROLL.
:lol:
Quote from: Raghavan on May 27, 2007, 12:36:44 AM
Oh, ok.
Let me try again.
HEY YOU STUPID RETARD UR A LEXUS TROLL LEXUS ARE SNOOZEFEST CARZ Z0MG YOU SHOULD BE BANNED JUST FOR SAYING THAT GO AWAY YOU TROLL.
:lol:
+1
Quote from: Raghavan on May 27, 2007, 12:36:44 AM
Oh, ok.
Let me try again.
HEY YOU STUPID RETARD UR A LEXUS TROLL LEXUS ARE SNOOZEFEST CARZ Z0MG YOU SHOULD BE BANNED JUST FOR SAYING THAT GO AWAY YOU TROLL.
:lol:
Thats almost it. I was looking for something along the lines of audis "better interior" "2.0T has Plenty of power, he doesn't need the 3.5!" and "the lexus doesn't have the
Feel" You hit the troll part fairly well though :lol:
I don't even care for lexus, but I think this car was made for people like Raza's brother.
The G35 is probably still better for him, or at least as good, and it's quite a bit less expensive.
He wouldn't buy a Lexus and I wouldn't tell him to.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg461734#msg461734 date=1180312770
He wouldn't buy a Lexus and I wouldn't tell him to.
Your suggestion on the Audi was still a Poor one.
And what is wrong with Lexus?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 24, 2007, 01:10:13 PM
Yes there is, its called forced induction.? :devil:
I'm actually a big fan of turbo engines. My first sports car was a turboed straight six and I still think that combination is a match made in heaven. I love the surge of reserve power and the fact they can be quite powerful and quiet at the same time. And with today's turbo technology, turbo lag can be almost eliminated.
But driving spiritedly today in the Z06 gave me some reminder of why I love NA engines too. The throttle response in N/A engines, especially high torque ones seem to make turbo engines seem a bit sluggish. The razor sharp throttle blips feel especially better in the LS6 than the turbo engines I've driven.
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 28, 2007, 02:24:33 AM
Your suggestion on the Audi was still a Poor one.
And what is wrong with Lexus?
The Audi is a fine car, and it's quicker (and feels quicker) than his Mercedes, and it's cheaper than the 335i. I don't see it as a poor suggestion.
I would not recommend a Lexus on principle. And I guarantee that he would not buy one.
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 27, 2007, 12:12:39 AM
This is so stupid, it?s laughable. He wants something quick, doesn't care about steering feel too much, then why is he looking at a overpriced Golf that?s no faster than a Civic Si/Sentra SE-R?
He seems like the PERFECT person for the Lexus IS350, and with Lexus' reliability, and renowned dealer Service if he ever does have to pay a visit, it seems like the obvious choice.
Some other BETTER options would be the G35 (Easy choice over the A4...) and Of Course 335i.
My car did 15's, and 15's aren't quick.
Are you misinformed, or just retarded?
Quote from: ro51092 on May 28, 2007, 08:49:15 AM
Are you misinformed, or just retarded?
I read it as devil's advocate.
Quote from: ro51092 on May 28, 2007, 08:49:15 AM
Are you misinformed, or just retarded?
Quote from: ifcar on May 28, 2007, 08:50:32 AM
I read it as devil's advocate.
I read it as retarded devil's advocate. Maybe some slick Audi driver stole his girl, or the poor guy has been shamed by too many Audis in races, so now he carries a grudge as big as Montana. We need to be more supportive of him.
Quote from: saxonyron on May 28, 2007, 11:03:03 AM
I read it as retarded devil's advocate. Maybe some slick Audi driver stole his girl, or the poor guy has been shamed by too many Audis in races, so now he carries a grudge as big as Montana. We need to be more supportive of him.
:lol: :lol:
Quote from: saxonyron on May 28, 2007, 11:03:03 AM
I read it as retarded devil's advocate. Maybe some slick Audi driver stole his girl, or the poor guy has been shamed by too many Audis in races, so now he carries a grudge as big as Montana. We need to be more supportive of him.
You tell 'em.
Quote from: saxonyron on May 28, 2007, 11:03:03 AM
I read it as retarded devil's advocate.? Maybe some slick Audi driver stole his girl, or the poor guy has been shamed by too many Audis in races, so now he carries a grudge as big as Montana.? We need to be more supportive of him.?
Take it from a fanboy. The Audi Offers nothing over the G35 or the 335i save a Shitty lesser motor option. The 2.0T is a high 14 (doubtful) low 15 second car, putting it on the same level as and RSX-S, Civic Si, Sentra SE-R, etc. Again, my car ran 15's, and 15's are not fast.
The Audi is not as sporty as the BMW or Infiniti, nor is it as fast, nor does it handle as well. So what are you getting at? Maybe you're the retarded one.
Quote from: Raza ?link=topic=9264.msg462058#msg462058 date=1180363620
The Audi is a fine car, and it's quicker (and feels quicker) than his Mercedes, and it's cheaper than the 335i.? I don't see it as a poor suggestion.
I would not recommend a Lexus on principle.? And I guarantee that he would not buy one.?
He is your brother, so I imagine you know him better than any of us. I dislike lexus as well, but the IS is attractive, and Lexus make vastly more appealing cars than Audi does IMO. Infact, I put Audi very low in the ranks. Overpriced VW's with weak powertrains, and Dynamics
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 29, 2007, 01:19:04 AM
He is your brother, so I imagine you know him better than any of us. I dislike lexus as well, but the IS is attractive, and Lexus make vastly more appealing cars than Audi does IMO. Infact, I put Audi very low in the ranks. Overpriced VW's with weak powertrains, and Dynamics
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
However, the 2.0T is a stellar drivetrain, and the A4 (especially the 2.0T) w/ sports package is indeed a very engaging car to drive. Definately, IMO, more so than the IS350.
Also, by your standards, we should also call the IS350 an overpriced Toyota and the G35 an overpriced Nissan. That is about how much similarity the A4 has with any existing VW products....
Quote from: LonghornTX on May 29, 2007, 01:56:54 AM
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
However, the 2.0T is a stellar drivetrain, and the A4 (especially the 2.0T) w/ sports package is indeed a very engaging car to drive. Definately, IMO, more so than the IS350.
Also, by your standards, we should also call the IS350 an overpriced Toyota and the G35 an overpriced Nissan. That is about how much similarity the A4 has with any existing VW products....
You could, but there is No RWD Toyota Sedan, and No RWD Nissan Sedan on sale in the US. That, and they don't rip off thier interior from an Early 90's Benz.
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 29, 2007, 11:41:52 PM
You could, but there is No RWD Toyota Sedan, and No RWD Nissan Sedan on sale in the US. That, and they don't rip off thier interior from an Early 90's Benz.
Like I said, everyone is entitled to an opinion :ohyeah:.
Quote from: ArchBishop on May 29, 2007, 11:41:52 PM
You could, but there is No RWD Toyota Sedan, and No RWD Nissan Sedan on sale in the US. That, and they don't rip off thier interior from an Early 90's Benz.
G35 is a 350Z more than the A4 is related to a current VW.
Quote from: LonghornTX on May 29, 2007, 01:56:54 AM
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.?
However, the 2.0T is a stellar drivetrain, and the A4 (especially the 2.0T) w/ sports package is indeed a very engaging car to drive.? Definately, IMO, more so than the IS350.
Also, by your standards, we should also call the IS350 an overpriced Toyota and the G35 an overpriced Nissan.? That is about how much similarity the A4 has with any existing VW products....
I'd take the A4 over the IS in a heartbeat.
I'd probably take a G35 over the A4 due to power and value, but not everyone shopping in this segment cares that much about power. The A4 is a strong contender, if it is a little pricey.
A4 isn't for everyone, but it does have some advantages.
In general its much cheaper than the 3-series or C-Class.
Its a bit more expensive than the G35, but if you want AWD (the only real reason to be buying an Audi anyway) the G35 only offers the big gas guzzling engine and its automatic only. I'd rather have the weaker 2.0T, shift my own gears, and use less fuel.
The IS and A4 seem to be priced about the same and in AWD form the IS250 has about the same power as the A4 2.0T. The A4 is more engaging to drive though and IMHO is much nicer to look at (inside and out). Again, in AWD form the A4 also offers a manual transmission, and the IS250 does not.
So for me if I was looking for a premium AWD sport sedan, the only real realistic choices are the 328xi and the A4 2.0T Quattro. I can't say for sure which one I'd buy, but given my past history I'd probably lean toward Audi at this point.
So Raza, have you test driven the 335i yet? I am interested in your impressions about the auto box.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 30, 2007, 10:16:24 AM
So Raza, have you test driven the 335i yet? I am interested in your impressions about the auto box.
I have been floored with a mysterious injury, so I haven't been up and about much. I will probably head there tomorrow.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 30, 2007, 07:55:18 AM
A4 isn't for everyone, but it does have some advantages.
In general its much cheaper than the 3-series or C-Class.
Its a bit more expensive than the G35, but if you want AWD (the only real reason to be buying an Audi anyway) the G35 only offers the big gas guzzling engine and its automatic only. I'd rather have the weaker 2.0T, shift my own gears, and use less fuel.
The IS and A4 seem to be priced about the same and in AWD form the IS250 has about the same power as the A4 2.0T. The A4 is more engaging to drive though and IMHO is much nicer to look at (inside and out). Again, in AWD form the A4 also offers a manual transmission, and the IS250 does not.
So for me if I was looking for a premium AWD sport sedan, the only real realistic choices are the 328xi and the A4 2.0T Quattro. I can't say for sure which one I'd buy, but given my past history I'd probably lean toward Audi at this point.
Honestly, That is the best Argument I've seen for the A4 period. I'm can say in all honesty that I agree.
I couldn't get myself to get an xDrive 3er. It's just that only RWD is appropriate for a 3er.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 30, 2007, 07:55:18 AM
A4 isn't for everyone, but it does have some advantages.
In general its much cheaper than the 3-series or C-Class.
Hell no. Brand-new 323i here go for $34,900, and brand-new A4 2.0T Q go for $38,500. Theoretically you can get a 2.0T FrontTrak for just over $34, but they almost NEVER have FWD Audis here in the snowbelt.
For me, there were two factors as to why I have rings on my keys, instead of a propeller:
-Price- Probably just my dealer, but I got a PHENOMENAL deal on the A4. $369/month, $0 down. BMW was more, I can't remember the figure, but it was a lot more. I was actually willing to pay it.
-Availability- They ONLY had 6AT's. There was a 6-month wait for a 6MT, and I wanted a manual, and didn't have 6 months.
The A4 was very, very competitively priced, and this particular A4 was one of the few quattro A4's in San Diego (duh..). It may seem stupid to have quattro in San Diego, but, hell, I love it.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on May 30, 2007, 09:40:43 PM
Hell no. Brand-new 323i here go for $34,900, and brand-new A4 2.0T Q go for $38,500. Theoretically you can get a 2.0T FrontTrak for just over $34, but they almost NEVER have FWD Audis here in the snowbelt.
In America (aka the United States) there is no 323i. If there were, it would be the value leader of the Germans, most likely.
Quote from: Raza on May 31, 2007, 06:31:10 AM
In America (aka the United States) there is no 323i. If there were, it would be the value leader of the Germans, most likely.
Really? The cheapest 3 is the 328i? That answers so many questions I had to my American friends compaining about how a 3-series was comparably much more expensive than an A4.