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The Fast Lane / Re: The Official MX-5 Miata Thread
« Last post by MX793 on June 06, 2020, 10:57:02 am »
LOL.  I'm sorry but an NB Miata on low grip 185 all seasons with an open diff on a backroad at 9/10ths which would probably be at the speed limit, but above the recommended turn speeds) is much more fun and safer than it would be with pilot sport cup 2 tires at 7/10ths on a backroad which would probably be twice the speed limit.

Safer does not mean safe.  It's like comparing playing around with an M80 vs a full stick of dynamite and arguing that the M80 is safer.  The M80 might be safer in that if it goes off in your hand it might only leave you deaf and missing a hand instead of dead, but that isn't anyone's definition of "safe", either.  And, of course, traveling 55 mph isn't even necessarily safer than traveling 80 or 90.  Spinning off the road at 55 mph in a Miata will total the vehicle and likely result in serious, maybe even fatal, injury to the occupants depending on what you collide with and how.  Sideways into a tree?  You're probably dead.  This is true of most cars.  Wrap a new Corvette around a tree sideways at 55 and you're also looking at a hospital stay, if not a trip to the morgue.  Dead is dead.  Falling out of a 10th story balcony will kill you just as surely as falling out of a 20th story balcony.  It's not "safer" to hang further off the edge of a 10th story balcony than the 20th story simply because it's half as far to the ground.

Then there's the matter of margin.  Any vehicle being driven at 9/10s is closer to out of control than one being driven at 7/10.  This is inherently less safe than operating a vehicle with more margin to its limits.  Less margin for error.  Less margin to absorb something unanticipated (animal, debris in the road, whatever). 

And, as established, a car can slide a considerable distance if control is lost even at what we consider "slow" or "safe" speeds of under 35 mph, let alone 50+.  I watched a guy nearly completely roll his car at an auto-x traveling at maybe 45 mph.  Lost control in a slalom, skidded off the edge of the pavement (we were on a taxiway) into a shallow ditch/depression, the car went up on its side and then got caught by a chainlink fence before going completely over.  I had full view of the underside of the car from where I was standing.  Car skidded and fishtailed at least 120 ft on asphalt before dropping tires into the soft shoulder at the end of the pavement.  Thankfully it was a targa top (Del Sol), so the driver was able to get out by popping the roof and climbing out that way.  The doors couldn't be opened because the car was literally at a 45 degree angle to the ground, driver's side down.  Do you have at least 150 ft of open, unobstructed space without hard obstacles, other drivers, or pedestrians when pushing your vehicle near the limit on public streets?  Because that's about what you need even if speeds stay under 50 mph.

I design auto-x courses.  A lot of thought is put into course layout to minimize the odds of someone hitting a hard obstacle, spectators, or other drivers (when 2 cars are on course at the same time).  Even with the relatively low speeds involved, we make sure that, in any section where a car is likely to lose control, there are no hard obstacles or hazards within at least 120 ft of a likely trajectory zone and that an out of control vehicle would be unlikely spin into the path of another car on course.  This also includes leaving generous run off at the end of faster sections ending in 180 turn-arounds in case someone has a fluke brake failure.  Even then, people find a way, once in a blue moon, to hit something.

You can argue that lo-po tires are legitimately safer on a race track with generous run offs, sand/gravel traps, and tire walls (assuming carry enough speed to make it past the run off and sand/gravel trap), allowing you to reach and play at the limits of the car in a controlled environment at speeds where you are more likely to recover control before hitting something.  Public streets are not a controlled environment with generous runoffs, gravel traps, and soft barriers.  You don't have 100s of feet of nothing if you spin off the road.  You frequently don't even have 100 ft.  Pushing a vehicle to its limit on public streets is not safe unless "the limit" is slower than you can travel by foot.  The notion that putting lo-po tires on your car so you can reach the limit at lower speeds allows you to safely explore the limits of your car on the street is a fallacy.  And in lowering the limit, you actually make your vehicle less safe to drive on the street by reducing your performance envelop and reducing operating margin.  Fitting your car with lousy tires is akin to disconnecting the brakes on one axle.
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General Automotive / Re: The Craigslist/eBay/AutoTrader Thread
« Last post by CaminoRacer on June 06, 2020, 10:37:38 am »
I will loan you $11.5k if you buy that
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The Garage / Re: Mechanic Stuff
« Last post by Soup DeVille on June 06, 2020, 10:29:20 am »
I imagine actual trailer would put the total at or over the 3500# towing capcity.

That's true.
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The Garage / Re: Mechanic Stuff
« Last post by Eye of the Tiger on June 06, 2020, 10:10:53 am »
I've never liked the way cars on dollies towed. How much more for an actual trailer?

I imagine actual trailer would put the total at or over the 3500# towing capcity.
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The Garage / Re: Mechanic Stuff
« Last post by Soup DeVille on June 06, 2020, 09:58:28 am »
I've never liked the way cars on dollies towed. How much more for an actual trailer?
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The Fast Lane / Re: The Official MX-5 Miata Thread
« Last post by Rich on June 06, 2020, 09:49:09 am »
LOL.  I'm sorry but an NB Miata on low grip 185 all seasons with an open diff on a backroad at 9/10ths which would probably be at the speed limit, but above the recommended turn speeds) is much more fun and safer than it would be with pilot sport cup 2 tires at 7/10ths on a backroad which would probably be twice the speed limit.
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