Author Topic: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed  (Read 548 times)

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Online Laconian

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2019, 01:20:06 am »
What if they symposed the sound of an idling engine through the car stereo? Maybe they could simulate the thrum with a haptic motor under your butt.
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2019, 04:51:10 am »
I'm telling you, video games have got really good at simulating engine sounds

The tech is there; the question is implementation. There have to be dedicated speakers separate from the stereo, and for performance cars they have to be LOUD
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Offline veeman

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2019, 06:54:02 am »
Completely artificial simulated sound is probably more lame than start/stop though.  Kind of like a band which generates most of its sound from a computer rather than instruments.

Online Laconian

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2019, 12:38:27 pm »
Hey, don't go comparing BMW symposed lameness to awesome electronic bands :rage:
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Offline MrH

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2019, 01:08:51 pm »
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Offline 68_427

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2019, 05:52:40 pm »
I'm telling you, video games have got really good at simulating engine sounds

The tech is there; the question is implementation. There have to be dedicated speakers separate from the stereo, and for performance cars they have to be LOUD

Doesn't VAG put speakers under the rear of some cars?
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2019, 03:59:44 pm »
Not a fan of a Start-Stop, primarily because I feel it is unnecessary wear and tear. Is it? I always turn it off in my A250.

The best Start-Stop system I experienced was actually in a 2014 Volkswagen Golf Convertible 1.2 TSI.

Link: https://www.carspin.club/index.php?topic=35127.0

Smooth stops and restarts.
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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2019, 04:43:45 pm »
Not every stop start is the same. The one on the ďecoĒ (GM mild hybrid) models just use the electric generator to turn the motor itself; itís quick, seamless and quiet.

The less sophisticated IMO ones use the actual starter motor, and itís kinda loud and comparatively slow.


BMW has some of the worse stop/start out. GM is generally OK, but you should be able to turn it off.

Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2019, 08:11:29 am »
Not every stop start is the same. The one on the ďecoĒ (GM mild hybrid) models just use the electric generator to turn the motor itself; itís quick, seamless and quiet.

The less sophisticated IMO ones use the actual starter motor, and itís kinda loud and comparatively slow.


BMW has some of the worse stop/start out. GM is generally OK, but you should be able to turn it off.

But will it affect engine [parts] durability? The constant Start-Stopping in heavy traffic has got to take its reliability/longevity toll eventually.
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2019, 08:37:18 am »
But will it affect engine [parts] durability? The constant Start-Stopping in heavy traffic has got to take its reliability/longevity toll eventually.
I think the net effect of the engine running less more than offsets the starting and especially the stopping of it. What harm does turning an engine off do?
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Offline giant_mtb

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2019, 09:01:47 am »
I think the net effect of the engine running less more than offsets the starting and especially the stopping of it. What harm does turning an engine off do?

When the engine starts, thereís a point before the two surfaces become separated by the oil film called the Ďboundary conditioní, where the crankshaft is spinning, but thereís metal-to-metal contact between the bearing surfaces.

This is when most wear takes place. Fitting stop-start means the boundary condition (and metal-to-metal contact) could exist perhaps 500,000 times in the life of the engine instead of 50,000 and normal bearings would wear out long before that.


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/stop-start-long-term-impact-your-car-s-engine

Only time will tell if stop-start reduces engine life, as the engineers obviously consider wear in development.

Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2019, 09:26:52 am »
I don't think most cars are stopped long enough for the oil to return to the pan.

If they do, automakers could always install Accusump systems to counteract that.
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Offline Galaxy

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2019, 10:03:51 am »
Plus does the oil pump on cars equipped with start stop not keep running anyways? I think they are all electric, and not belt driven in these types of operation.

Offline 93JC

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2019, 10:37:14 am »
:confused:

Not to say such a thing doesn't exist, but I've never heard of a car with an electric oil pump. Or belt-driven for that matter; I've never seen one that wasn't mechanical (usually driven off a camshaft or the crankshaft itself).

I've certainly never heard the hum of an electric pump from any vehicle I've driven with stop-start.

Offline MX793

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2019, 10:38:18 am »
I don't think most cars are stopped long enough for the oil to return to the pan.

If they do, automakers could always install Accusump systems to counteract that.

Correct.  Cold starts put a lot of wear and tear on the engine because there won't be much oil film left from the last time the engine ran to provide optimal lubrication and protection.  Also, cold oil is more viscous and doesn't flow into nooks and crannies as easily.  Hot starts are a different story.  Particularly if we're talking only a minute or two of off time.  All of the oil pumped into the top end of the motor will still be there, and will be at operating temperature and viscosity.  Main reason constantly turning your car on and off is discouraged on regular cars is because the starter motor typically isn't spec'ed or sized for that much use.  A car with start/stop will have an appropriately spec'ed starter.
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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2019, 10:40:31 am »
:confused:

Not to say such a thing doesn't exist, but I've never heard of a car with an electric oil pump. Or belt-driven for that matter; I've never seen one that wasn't mechanical (usually driven off a camshaft or the crankshaft itself).

I've certainly never heard the hum of an electric pump from any vehicle I've driven with stop-start.

1.0 Ecoboost has belt driven oil pump. Yay. Oil bath timing belt. :rockon:
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2019, 11:00:38 am »
We also have to keep in mind that hybrids, which are basically properly done start-stop systems, have been in play for 2 decades.... I have yet to hear any premature ICE wear from them.

I would not be surprised if hybrids are equipped with some kind of engine oil heating systems to help with stuff like this. Or maybe that's not even necessary as with batteries being less efficient in the cold the ICE probably has to run more.

Point being it's no issue. The only real point worth worrying about is the starter.
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2019, 07:42:38 am »
I've used the Start-Stop system in my A250 a few times, but only when the engine, oil, water temperature is warm. If the system was guaranteed to make a big difference in fuel economy I'd probably use it more often. I can get used to the sensation and sounds of the engine shutting down at every light if I forced myself to. I just don't think it's worth having the motor shut down for 1-2 minutes at every light. The fuel you save while idling is probably gonna be burned anyway when you accelerate after the light turns green.

Interestingly enough, my engine oil takes about 20 km of driving in cold weather (after a cold start) to reach its operating temperature - and that after a 23 km long Autobahn drive at 120-130 km/h.

Today was a really hot day, and my engine oil temperature warmed up pretty quickly (after a cold start), after around 9 km of slow city driving (50-60 km/h, stop and go...).

The digital display gives me all of this engine data which I find very useful.
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2019, 01:26:43 pm »
Why would an engine burn more fuel accelerating if it wakes up rather than sitting idling...?
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Offline MX793

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2019, 02:13:28 pm »
Why would an engine burn more fuel accelerating if it wakes up rather than sitting idling...?

Yeah, the engine will burn the same fuel accelerating whether the engine was idling at the light or shut off prior to acceleration.
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Offline AltinD

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2019, 02:57:04 pm »
I've had stop/start on a rental VW Passat last year. Because it was hot summer, I noticed that stopping the engine at a traffic stop would also turn off the A/C compressor

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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2019, 04:56:03 am »
As I understand it, engines burn the most fuel while accelerating. The amount of fuel saved with the engine off during 1-3 minutes at a light is probably going to be burnt during acceleration anyway after the light turns green.
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Offline BimmerM3

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2019, 08:30:19 am »
As I understand it, engines burn the most fuel while accelerating. The amount of fuel saved with the engine off during 1-3 minutes at a light is probably going to be burnt during acceleration anyway after the light turns green.

:confused:

It's a dumb comparison. You have to accelerate either way. Not idling at the light will use less fuel than idling at the light. :huh:
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Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2019, 05:33:12 pm »
I've had stop/start on a rental VW Passat last year. Because it was hot summer, I noticed that stopping the engine at a traffic stop would also turn off the A/C compressor

Eww.

GM's system has a couple of different levels. If you have the AC on, it won't shut off unless you put it in 'Eco' mode
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Offline BimmerM3

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2019, 05:51:54 pm »
I've had stop/start on a rental VW Passat last year. Because it was hot summer, I noticed that stopping the engine at a traffic stop would also turn off the A/C compressor

My dad's A4 also does that, but it's smart enough to turn the engine back on early if the cabin is starting to warm up too much.
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Offline veeman

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2019, 10:29:22 pm »
Does it turn the fan off as well?  Meaning letís say you have the AC blowing 68 degree air on a medium fan setting when itís 95 degrees out.  And you stop at a traffic light.  Does it turn the AC off and keep the fan on or does it turn the AC off and the fan off?  So you have 68 degree air blowing in your face, followed by 95 degree air for a minute, followed by 68 degree air when it starts back up.  Or itís 68 degree air, followed by no air, followed by 68 degree air when the engine starts back on. 

This reminds me of my friendís energy saver TV he got a few years back.  It would adjust the brightness of his TV depending on the brightness of the room.  He returned it after two days.  He got sick of the TV flickering every time someone opened the door to the room.

Offline 93JC

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2019, 11:14:17 pm »
In every car I've driven with stop-start the fan would stay running even if the A/C compressor turned off with the engine. That is to say if the engine would even turn off at all; generally they'd stay on if the A/C was on. Or the engine would automatically start up again to run the A/C compressor if it needed to do so to keep the cabin cool; the Audi I rented in Phoenix last October did that in heavy traffic.

(And don't think for a second that when you set the climate control to "68" that you're getting 68 įF air coming out of the vents, it's cooler than that.)

Offline BimmerM3

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Re: 2020 VW Golf Mild Hybrid System Revealed
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2019, 10:02:50 am »
Does it turn the fan off as well?  Meaning letís say you have the AC blowing 68 degree air on a medium fan setting when itís 95 degrees out.  And you stop at a traffic light.  Does it turn the AC off and keep the fan on or does it turn the AC off and the fan off?  So you have 68 degree air blowing in your face, followed by 95 degree air for a minute, followed by 68 degree air when it starts back up.  Or itís 68 degree air, followed by no air, followed by 68 degree air when the engine starts back on. 

I'm not sure - I don't pay that much attention. It's never gotten to the point where I noticed it blowing warm air though.
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