Author Topic: 1949 Cadillac Restoration project (Read 32078 times)

The Pirate · « **Reply #120 on:** October 16, 2007, 06:01:37 pm »

Quote from: southdiver1 on October 16, 2007, 05:59:52 pm

Well, a bit of good news,
I brought my battery back to autozone. Dead as Elvis.
They give me a striaght up exchange at no charge.

I don't post in here much, but I'm keeping abreast of things. Be sure to post when you get it running. It's going to be an exciting moment for sure.

And, have fun with it! That's the reason you're doing it, after all.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #121 on:** October 21, 2007, 01:42:04 pm »

Well, I got a lot of work done this weekend.
We got the fuel pump to work and we discoverd shtat the coil works but the plugs are not sparking.
it is either a bad distrubitor cap, bad points, or a bad condensor.
I am gonna replace the points and condensor first as they are the cheapest.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #122 on:** October 23, 2007, 10:39:00 am »

Just a quick update... I sold a sunvisor which was in the backseat of the Caddy so, I am adding that $100.00 to my total.

Money To Spend   $5,000.00

Oil Filter   $14.05    Cheap filter for initial change
Oil Filter   $31.00    good filter for royal purple
Oil Catch   $9.83    Need to drain the oil at home
Seafoam   $15.22    Hopefully this will flush everything out
Bungee cords   $6.99    Gotta hold down the tarp
Oil pan gasket   $17.93    Gotta scrape the pan.. Yummy
13/16 deap socket   $4.25    That is for the sparkplugs.. BIG
11/16 deap socket   $4.25    Needed for the crankshaft
Marvles Mystery Oil   $3.70    Hopefully a 1 week piston soak will work
Brake Cleaner   $6.46    Evaporates quick and cut grease
Battery   $63.30    Money well wasted so far?
Car Cover   $12.95    WalMart Special and keeps the wife happy
PB Blaster   $6.58    Soak the pistons another week.
Shop Manual CD   $52.00    Now I actually KNOW what I am doing
Generator Belt     $8.99
PB Blaster      $4.19
Cheap Oil   $1.79    Good for soaking bolts in
Degreaser    $2.09
1/3 Clamp   $2.49    Heater Hose clamps
1/3 Clamp   $2.49
1/2 Clamp   $2.49    Rad hose clamp set
1/2 Clamp   $2.49
Upper Rad Hose   $14.09
Lower rad hose   $15.99
4 ft heater hose   $0.00    They forgot to charge me?
Starter rebuild   $122.18    so far, it is the prettiest part of the car.
Gasket maker   $7.99    Big sheet and I get to make gaskets myself
Water pump sealer   $2.49    Gasket sealer for the water pump
(SOLD) Sunvisor ($100.00)   Sun visor in my back seat but, didn't fit my car.


Money Left   $4,661.73
Money Spent   $338.27

FoMoJo · « **Reply #123 on:** October 23, 2007, 11:25:36 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on October 21, 2007, 01:42:04 pm

Well, I got a lot of work done this weekend.
We got the fuel pump to work and we discoverd shtat the coil works but the plugs are not sparking.
it is either a bad distrubitor cap, bad points, or a bad condensor.
I am gonna replace the points and condensor first as they are the cheapest.

I'm glad to hear that there's progress.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #124 on:** October 30, 2007, 09:07:00 am »

Just a bit more shopping. I will put the ignition partson this Saturday and hopefully fire that puppy up.

Oil Filter   $14.05    Cheap filter for initial change
Oil Filter   $31.00    good filter for royal purple
Oil Catch   $9.83    Need to drain the oil at home
Seafoam   $15.22    Hopefully this will flush everything out
Bungee cords   $6.99    Gotta hold down the tarp
Oil pan gasket   $17.93    Gotta scrape the pan.. Yummy
13/16 deap socket   $4.25    That is for the sparkplugs.. BIG
11/16 deap socket   $4.25    Needed for the crankshaft
Marvles Mystery Oil   $3.70    Hopefully a 1 week piston soak will work
Brake Cleaner   $6.46    Evaporates quick and cut grease
Battery   $63.30    Money well wasted so far?
Car Cover   $12.95    WalMart Special and keeps the wife happy
PB Blaster   $6.58    Soak the pistons another week.
Shop Manual CD   $52.00    Now I actually KNOW what I am doing
Generator Belt     $8.99
PB Blaster      $4.19
Cheap Oil   $1.79    Good for soaking bolts in
Degreaser    $2.09
1/3 Clamp   $2.49    Heater Hose clamps
1/3 Clamp   $2.49
1/2 Clamp   $2.49    Rad hose clamp set
1/2 Clamp   $2.49
Upper Rad Hose   $14.09
Lower rad hose   $15.99
4 ft heater hose   $0.00    They forgot to charge me?
Starter rebuild   $122.18    so far, it is the prettiest part of the car.
Gasket maker   $7.99    Big sheet and I get to make gaskets myself
Water pump sealer   $2.49    Gasket sealer for the water pump
(SOLD) Sunvisor   ($100.00)   Sun visor in my back seat but, didn't fit my car.
Rotor   $12.99
Condensor   $8.99
Distubutor Cap   $14.99
Points     $5.99

Money Spent   $381.23
Money Left   $4,618.77

Secret Chimp · « **Reply #125 on:** October 31, 2007, 07:41:36 pm »

What do you expect to work on after the engine gets going?

southdiver1 · « **Reply #126 on:** November 01, 2007, 04:22:04 am »

Quote from: Secret Chimp on October 31, 2007, 07:41:36 pm

What do you expect to work on after the engine gets going?

Well, I still have to get the brakes working and I will take a look at the master cylander this weekend to see whats up.
Also, as soon as the engine actually fires, I fully expect it to blow a hole in the exhaust system so, it will be
1: Brakes
2: Exhaust
3: (if needed) transmission.
Once all of those are in order, I will start on the body work. The interior is in good shape so I am gonna leave that one alone.

FoMoJo · « **Reply #127 on:** November 12, 2007, 11:04:02 am »

Did you get it running yet?

southdiver1 · « **Reply #128 on:** November 12, 2007, 11:20:50 am »

Quote from: FoMoJo on November 12, 2007, 11:04:02 am

Did you get it running yet?

Nope..
Replaced
Dist cap
Rotor
Points
Condensor

Still no spark at all. With the key on, I can get the points to spark so I know that the dist is in good shape. I can't tell if the points are sparking or not when the engine is turning. I will have to do it at night but, the points are opening and closing.
Also, I ordered a new coil and plug/coil wires.
I am gonna feel like a real ass if it was a bad coil wire this whole time....

etypeJohn · « **Reply #129 on:** November 13, 2007, 08:11:36 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 12, 2007, 11:20:50 am

Nope..
Replaced
Dist cap
Rotor
Points
Condensor

Still no spark at all. With the key on, I can get the points to spark so I know that the dist is in good shape. I can't tell if the points are sparking or not when the engine is turning. I will have to do it at night but, the points are opening and closing.
Also, I ordered a new coil and plug/coil wires.
I am gonna feel like a real ass if it was a bad coil wire this whole time....

Just start checking to make sure youare getting the proper voltages to the coil. At least you have apparently narrowed it down to the coil and/or plug wires.

Is it getting gas? Gotta' have three things to run; fuel, spark and compression.

Also, once you get spark be sure to check the timing. Did you clean up the distributor? Mechanical advance free and working? Does this think have vacuum advance as well?

southdiver1 · « **Reply #130 on:** November 14, 2007, 08:28:13 am »

Quote from: etypeJohn on November 13, 2007, 08:11:36 am

Just start checking to make sure youare getting the proper voltages to the coil. At least you have apparently narrowed it down to the coil and/or plug wires.

Is it getting gas? Gotta' have three things to run; fuel, spark and compression.

Also, once you get spark be sure to check the timing. Did you clean up the distributor? Mechanical advance free and working? Does this think have vacuum advance as well?

Well, I didn't check the timing as it was running when it was parked. Because if that, I have no reason to think that the timing became retarded.
I did clean out the dist when I had the rotor and the points out but, I simply used a rag. It didn't look that bad.
It is getting pleanty of fuel. I can the the pump pumping in the glass and the plugs are getting wet. I have the air cleaner off so air is not a problem either.
It does have a vacuum advance on it but to be honest, I have not the slighest idea how this works.

FoMoJo · « **Reply #131 on:** November 14, 2007, 08:43:30 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 14, 2007, 08:28:13 am

Well, I didn't check the timing as it was running when it was parked. Because if that, I have no reason to think that the timing became retarded.
I did clean out the dist when I had the rotor and the points out but, I simply used a rag. It didn't look that bad.
It is getting pleanty of fuel. I can the the pump pumping in the glass and the plugs are getting wet. I have the air cleaner off so air is not a problem either.
It does have a vacuum advance on it but to be honest, I have not the slighest idea how this works.

I wouldn't imagine the vacuum advance would prevent it from starting. However, once you get it going, you can, likely, tell if it's working okay when you rev up the engine and it sounds okay.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #132 on:** November 14, 2007, 08:54:26 am »

Quote from: FoMoJo on November 14, 2007, 08:43:30 am

I wouldn't imagine the vacuum advance would prevent it from starting. However, once you get it going, you can, likely, tell if it's working okay when you rev up the engine and it sounds okay.

Revving the engine would be a treat.
Hell, just getting a cough would be a welcome sound at this point.
Once I get it to idle, even a rough idle, I will be able (should be able) to make adjustments from there.

etypeJohn · « **Reply #133 on:** November 14, 2007, 09:04:58 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 14, 2007, 08:54:26 am

Revving the engine would be a treat.
Hell, just getting a cough would be a welcome sound at this point.
Once I get it to idle, even a rough idle, I will be able (should be able) to make adjustments from there.

You might want to buy a spray can (or two) of starter fluid. If you have someone crank the ending while you spray the stuff down the carb and it fires then you know youhave a fuel problem. If it doesn't fire you probably have a spark problem

http://www.sprayproducts.com/starting-fluid.php

Any auto parts store is going to have some brand of the stuff.

I'm really looking forward to a post where you state "Its alive!!!"

southdiver1 · « **Reply #134 on:** November 14, 2007, 09:08:54 am »

The problem is that the plugs are not sparking.
I actually held one in my fingers as a friend turned the car over. Nothing.

CJ · « **Reply #135 on:** November 14, 2007, 05:07:13 pm »

Have you replaced the wires and plugs?

southdiver1 · « **Reply #136 on:** November 15, 2007, 06:31:02 am »

Quote from: CJ on November 14, 2007, 05:07:13 pm

Have you replaced the wires and plugs?

No I have not.
The wires appear to be in good condition. I am not feeling any breaks and a visual is not showing any kind of rot or cracks.
I did replace one plug with a brand new one I had laying around and it still gets no spark.

Secret Chimp · « **Reply #137 on:** November 15, 2007, 08:20:58 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 14, 2007, 09:08:54 am

The problem is that the plugs are not sparking.
I actually held one in my fingers as a friend turned the car over. Nothing.

Dumb question, but you did hold the spark plug against the block so it could ground out (and therefore spark), right?

etypeJohn · « **Reply #138 on:** November 15, 2007, 08:47:15 am »

Quote from: Secret Chimp on November 15, 2007, 08:20:58 am

Dumb question, but you did hold the spark plug against the block so it could ground out (and therefore spark), right?

Good question. I do know that holding on to a plug wire and touching the car will get your attention. (ask me how I know)

I think you are just going to have to start checking each portion of the wiring.

Is the coil getting the voltage it should.

if Yes, then is the coil good? (coils are cheap, replace it)

If the coil is good are the coil and plug leads good? (This is something that is difficult to tell by sight. I'd replace them all, you will want to do that anyway, even if it ran. 30-40 year old plug wires are most likely junk.

Replace all the spark plugs. You are going to do this anyway so do it now.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #139 on:** November 15, 2007, 11:14:05 am »

Quote from: etypeJohn on November 15, 2007, 08:47:15 am

Good question. I do know that holding on to a plug wire and touching the car will get your attention. (ask me how I know)

I think you are just going to have to start checking each portion of the wiring.

Is the coil getting the voltage it should.

if Yes, then is the coil good? (coils are cheap, replace it)

If the coil is good are the coil and plug leads good? (This is something that is difficult to tell by sight. I'd replace them all, you will want to do that anyway, even if it ran. 30-40 year old plug wires are most likely junk.

Replace all the spark plugs. You are going to do this anyway so do it now.

Well, I did hold the plug to the block but saw and heard nothing.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #140 on:** November 19, 2007, 06:53:18 am »

OK.. I have replaced:
coil
dist cap
rotor
points (and I think I adjusted them correctly)
Condensor.

I am getting spark to the plugs. I am getting fuel to the plugs.

The car turns over strong. It starts to cough and spit and sometimes a little flame will backfire out of the carb.
She STILL won't start.
Suggestions?

FoMoJo · « **Reply #141 on:** November 19, 2007, 09:21:03 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 19, 2007, 06:53:18 am

OK.. I have replaced:
coil
dist cap
rotor
points (and I think I adjusted them correctly)
Condensor.

I am getting spark to the plugs. I am getting fuel to the plugs.

The car turns over strong. It starts to cough and spit and sometimes a little flame will backfire out of the carb.
She STILL won't start.
Suggestions?

Could be the plugs are just getting too wet.

Spark to the plugs is certainly a good sign. However, to be sure you're spark is strong enough, it wouldn't hurt to put in new plugs as well as wires...the wire might be bleeding a lot of current. I wouldn't imagine the timing would be out of wack so, if new plugs and wires don't get it going, maybe a carburettor rebuild would be the next consideration.

Good luck!

Morris Minor · « **Reply #142 on:** November 19, 2007, 03:01:19 pm »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 19, 2007, 06:53:18 am

Suggestions?

Check the timing
Check the plug leads are hooked up in the correct order.
I'd replace the plug leads if you haven't already

I don't knoiw the specifics of your car, but a quick Google search revealed this:
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/491.cfm

southdiver1 · « **Reply #143 on:** November 20, 2007, 02:08:56 pm »

Money To Spend   $5,000.00

Oil Filter   $14.05    Cheap filter for initial change
Oil Filter   $31.00    good filter for royal purple
Oil Catch   $9.83    Need to drain the oil at home
Seafoam   $15.22    Hopefully this will flush everything out
Bungee cords   $6.99    Gotta hold down the tarp
Oil pan gasket   $17.93    Gotta scrape the pan.. Yummy
13/16 deap socket   $4.25    That is for the sparkplugs.. BIG
11/16 deap socket   $4.25    Needed for the crankshaft
Marvles Mystery Oil   $3.70    Hopefully a 1 week piston soak will work
Brake Cleaner   $6.46    Evaporates quick and cut grease
Battery   $63.30    Money well wasted so far?
Car Cover   $12.95    WalMart Special and keeps the wife happy
PB Blaster   $6.58    Soak the pistons another week.
Shop Manual CD   $52.00    Now I actually KNOW what I am doing
Generator Belt     $8.99
PB Blaster      $4.19
Cheap Oil   $1.79    Good for soaking bolts in
Degreaser    $2.09
1/3 Clamp   $2.49    Heater Hose clamps
1/3 Clamp   $2.49
1/2 Clamp   $2.49    Rad hose clamp set
1/2 Clamp   $2.49
Upper Rad Hose   $14.09
Lower rad hose   $15.99
4 ft heater hose   $0.00    They forgot to charge me?
Starter rebuild   $122.18    so far, it is the prettiest part of the car.
Gasket maker   $7.99    Big sheet and I get to make gaskets myself
Water pump sealer   $2.49    Gasket sealer for the water pump
(SOLD) Sunvisor   ($120.00)   Sun visor in my back seat but, didn't fit my car.
Rotor   $12.99
Condensor   $8.99
Distubutor Cap   $14.99
Points   $5.99
Coil   $12.95
Feeler gauge   $6.50    To adjust the points

Money Spent   $380.68
Money Left   $4,619.32

Also, I am planning on using Laquer paint and a roller to paint the car in order to stay with my "how cheap can I get" theme.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #144 on:** November 26, 2007, 08:18:18 am »

OK...
Four days straight of screwing with this 331 and I am finished.
My mind is made up. I am going with a 472 swap.
The hood will come off within the next few weeks and the 331 will get yanked.
While it is out, I will acid wash the engine bay and spray it black with LOTS of clearcoat. Basically, I will clean up as much as I can while I have the opportunity.
Also, the hood will get baking soda blasted.
The underside will get the heat paint treatment and the outside will get primer/sealer.
I have wasted too much time on this 331.

Big Dog · « **Reply #145 on:** November 26, 2007, 11:52:57 am »

Quote from: southdiver1 on November 26, 2007, 08:18:18 am

OK...
Four days straight of screwing with this 331 and I am finished.
My mind is made up. I am going with a 472 swap.
The hood will come off within the next few weeks and the 331 will get yanked.
While it is out, I will acid wash the engine bay and spray it black with LOTS of clearcoat. Basically, I will clean up as much as I can while I have the opportunity.
Also, the hood will get baking soda blasted.
The underside will get the heat paint treatment and the outside will get primer/sealer.
I have wasted too much time on this 331.

Before you do that if you haven't done so already, check the compression. This is to verify you have no stuck valves. While you are at it check and see if all 8 plugs are firing. If they are not firing replace the plug wires and plugs. The backfiring and wanting to start sounds a lot like timing. You can check the timing with out the engine running. Have someone turning the engine over with the ignition while you check the timing.

All of that should take a couple of hours at the most.

Soup DeVille · « **Reply #146 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:15:45 pm »

Also remember that caddilacs have a different timing pattern than other engines, and 331s may be different still.

southdiver1 · « **Reply #147 on:** November 26, 2007, 12:48:57 pm »

Well, I was able to score a book on this car.
According to the book, my wires were all screwed up however, I was pretty frustrated at the time so it is possible that I screwed it up more.
According to what I found online, my pistons are as follows:

7 8
5 6
3 4
1 2
Firing Order: 18436572 (front to rear: Right bank 2-4-6-8, left bank 1-3-5-7)
So I took this to mean that, if standing at the front of the car, piston # 2 is at the front right.
Also, the book showed me the firing order of the cap so I ran the wires according to the book.
(sigh)

Morris Minor · « **Reply #148 on:** November 29, 2007, 06:22:56 pm »

That's right, & agrees with the specs as detailed in the link in my previous post. If the thing was coughing, farting & spitting flames, it's a good sign that the plug leads were mixed up.

Keep whittling away!

etypejohn · « **Reply #149 on:** December 05, 2007, 08:03:02 am »

Any news? Any positive progress?

Author Topic: 1949 Cadillac Restoration project (Read 32078 times)

etypeJohn

etypeJohn

etypeJohn

Big Dog

etypejohn