Author Topic: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars  (Read 3202 times)

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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #90 on: May 26, 2018, 05:07:50 pm »
2006 Honda Civic LX (1.8L, 5AT)


Purchased: Early May 2018, Sold: ???



+ I still think this design is one of the freshest designs Honda has done in the past 20 years. Despite it being now 13 years old, the design still looks futuristic and contemporary. I also think the generation before and after this Civic don't look anywhere near as good. I don't mind the current Civic, mostly because I've seen it around a lot, but this Civic looks great. I also like how despite people clamoring about "model bloat", this Civic is only marginally bigger than it's immediate predecessor. It felt bigger and substantial than the old car, but still felt compact and small.

+ I like the interior. I know that large dash top got on a lot of shopper's nerves back in 2005-2006, but really in perspective, it's about the same as every modern car these days. I think the current shape Ford Focus might have an equally long dash top, but doesn't feel as airy as the 2006 Civic.

+ The R18 is a much better engine than the D17 (block casting issues aside), it's still lacking torque, but it's got a stronger midrange and lower end versus the old D17 of the old cars.

+ Steering is accurate and good. Could use more feel, but it's still pretty sharp.

+ Roadholding and handling are also much better than the Corolla although not as good as the Mazda 3. But Mazda hadn't figured out how to apply corrosion protection until like 2010, so that's also a consideration. A 2006 Mazda 3 is likely literally in the scrapyard.

+ I feel like a lot of smaller cars had been going thru a renaissance in 2006; I think around this time is when people in the US stopped seeing a Civic as a 2nd or 3rd car, but more workable as a real family car. Coincidentally, my friend has a 2001 Civic EX at his house, and driving on the freeway, makes me realize how a lot of small cars felt like tin cans, not that long ago, even.


- The 5AT is OK. Shift logic could be better.

- Honda makes a shitty AC compressor.

- Ergonomics of the dual-tier dash means my hand covers the speedometer.

- As nice as it is, somehow despite having 171K, this car is weirdly still worth almost $5000. I can't picture paying $5000 for a 12 year old car with nearly 200K.

Offline Rich

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2018, 03:46:13 am »
That's exactly what my gfs 2010 looks like. Color and wheelcovers.

Her paint is in terrible shape. And I LOL at the strut towers being under the windshield(almost). Everything else about it is decent. The only thing that stands out to me is that the engine is so so smooth. It might just be because the 86's is a can of jumping beans though
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2018, 07:23:56 am »
There are 3 things I found out really matter to me from this car:

- Torque
- Fast + cold + reliable A/C
- Low road noise

Other than that it was pretty good, but unfortunately there are no easy fixes for any of those issues. Just from the A/C thing I don't think I'll buy another Honda, at least not without a mid July test drive.
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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2018, 09:44:01 am »
That's exactly what my gfs 2010 looks like. Color and wheelcovers.

Her paint is in terrible shape. And I LOL at the strut towers being under the windshield(almost). Everything else about it is decent. The only thing that stands out to me is that the engine is so so smooth. It might just be because the 86's is a can of jumping beans though

I think you have to take the cowl off to take off the struts. And taking the cowl off is super easy. Also, this one had the paint recall done. So the paint looks good.


There are 3 things I found out really matter to me from this car:

- Torque
- Fast + cold + reliable A/C
- Low road noise

Other than that it was pretty good, but unfortunately there are no easy fixes for any of those issues. Just from the A/C thing I don't think I'll buy another Honda, at least not without a mid July test drive.

Donít you still have yours?

Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2018, 11:10:35 am »
I enjoy that generation a lot. I thought the instrument panel was silly at first, but really liked it after having one for a week.
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2018, 06:55:58 pm »
I think you have to take the cowl off to take off the struts. And taking the cowl off is super easy. Also, this one had the paint recall done. So the paint looks good.


Donít you still have yours?
I sold it to my father in law. Getting to the struts was easy, I'm pretty sure I got to the top hat nuts with a regular 3/8" socket wrench
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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #96 on: August 11, 2018, 11:03:10 am »
2007 Mazda 3 s (2.3L, 5MT)




Iím gonna compare this car to the Sonic, theyíre both similar enough I can get away wth it


+ steering, and overall demeanor is very sharp.

+ steering is quick with good feel, and accuracy. Turn in is good, and body roll is low. Grip is high. The car definitely encourages you to push it.

+ the 2.3 is a revvy motor, and I forgot how nice a naturally aspirated motor is. The Sonicís 1.4T tuned for economy makes power soon, but it doesnít really rev high and runs out of steam at like 5500RPM. The Mazda peaks later.

+ the shifter is amazing. Not as good as a Honda, but still very nice.

+ I think the styling has held up well, and the interior (although tighter than the civic) looks more expensive (at first glance) than a similar vintage Corolla.

+ the extra wheelbase inches and multilink suspension of the Mazda 3 (versus then sonicís simple torsion beam) means it handles bumps more sophiscated than the Sonic. Not that the Sonic is bad, but the Mazda 3 is better.

+ sound system is pretty nice.

+ less road noise than the Civic


- these things are kind of dumpy; like the Mazda 6 I had, the sporty demeanor and nice looking interior is let down by some budget touches. The window switches feel comparatively flimsy compared to a Toyota or Honda. Also, 104k and a front strut feels tired. The AC compressor is noisy (not bad, but works).

- Corrosion protection? Never heard of her. The Civic I had was a year older, spent its life outside, had a full 75k more miles on it, and had no (severe) corrosion on it. This Mazda is clean for its year and miles and location, but it definitely has visible rust starting in places like the wheel wells.

- the clutch take up point is very high and abrupt

- it needs a 6th gear. 5th is very short, and buzzy.

- itís real world (and numerically, I think) slower than the Sonic

- Iím only getting like 25MPG, if that.

- the 2.3L is an unreliable motor thatís tempermental. The Honda and Toyota have so many fewer points of failure. The 2.3L have all these issues and I hate them. This is motor 3 for this car; the original failed, and the junkyard gave me one with a bad timing chain.


The SkyActiv motor and the new generation fixed a lot of gripes I have with the Mazda 3.

Back in 2007 tho, not much could match this. The Cobalt SS was fast, but it wouldnít let you forget that itís a Cobalt.

Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #97 on: January 06, 2019, 08:29:35 pm »
2011 Chevy Cruze LS 1.8L 6MT (Purchased Dec 2018)



+ It's interesting how a car a "class up" really does feel more solid. Not that the Sonic is a tin can, but the Cruze's extra heft feels a bit more solid.

+ Aside from the awkwardly resolved front fascia, the Cruze has handsome lines. Good proportions, the wheels fill out the design.

+ The watt's linkage in the back, really helps with the ride.

+ The seats are comfortable

+ The sound system is great; it's actually better than mine in the Sonic

+ Solid, secure handling, with good freeway roadholding

+ really quiet (compared to the Civic which is very noisy)

+ The Transmission (not the same 6MT as my car, which is a different unit) feels slick and heavy.

+ It does feel like VW Jetta, in a good way.

+ The Driver Information Center with it's options for trip, speedo, etc, are very nice.


- Apple and Android were doggish about their bluetooth channels back in 2010. My 2012 Sonic has streaming audio and phone, but this 2011 Cruze only has bluetooth calls. I've been told there's a $50 part you can find that you can add into the BCM that will add streaming audio, but honestly who cares.

- No hill hold assist

- The front fascia I've always thought was kind of ugly, same with that horrible black triangle of plastic near the rear doors.

- The 1.8L is essentially a bored and stroked version of the 1.6L in the old Aveo. It's smooth enough, but slow. It's like driving the 1.4T, but the boost never comes.

- MPG is mediocre; I'm doing good to get 28MPG. The Sonic gets 32MPG.



With that said, I think GM made a real misstep by not tooling up Ramos Arzipe or Lordstown, OH to produce the gen 1 Cruze Hatchback or Wagon back in 2010. I like my Sonic a lot, but if there was a Cruze hatch, I would have bought that instead.


Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2019, 10:38:45 pm »
The newer gen seems to get better MPG. 30-32 around town, 40+ on the highway.
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2019, 05:06:00 am »
And they're killing that too :facepalm:

Malibu looks nice but it's too fucking big. Optima is my limit. I couldn't walk past anything bigger in the garage
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Offline Soup DeVille

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2019, 12:44:48 pm »
A Watt's link won't help with ride; it in fact should not effect it all. A Watt's linkage eliminates side to side shift under cornering loads, but it doesn't effect ride except by adding unsprung mass.
We should get into the sympathy business.  There is a killing to be made.

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2019, 01:31:22 pm »
I def recall side to side deflection over rough stuff in my old Maximas I can't recall feeling in IRS equipped cars. Anything that helps locate the wheels properly is better
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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2019, 01:36:54 pm »
A Watt's link won't help with ride; it in fact should not effect it all. A Watt's linkage eliminates side to side shift under cornering loads, but it doesn't effect ride except by adding unsprung mass.


Donít you have to make the busihings stronger to compensate for the lack of watts linkage? The sonic doesnít have one, and neither do Cruzes with the ďEcoĒ model grade. They def ride worse (but still pretty good)

Offline Eye of the Tiger

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #103 on: January 07, 2019, 02:06:03 pm »

Donít you have to make the busihings stronger to compensate for the lack of watts linkage? The sonic doesnít have one, and neither do Cruzes with the ďEcoĒ model grade. They def ride worse (but still pretty good)

Does the Crooze have a solid rear axle? I thought it was a torsion beam, which shouldn't need a watts link to locate it side-to-side... but I suppose it wouldn't hurt.
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Offline Soup DeVille

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2019, 02:53:25 pm »

Donít you have to make the busihings stronger to compensate for the lack of watts linkage? The sonic doesnít have one, and neither do Cruzes with the ďEcoĒ model grade. They def ride worse (but still pretty good)

You could, but in general what I think you're feeling is a better sorted out suspension altogether; the linkage being one part of it, but not the part that leads to better ride- it does lead to better handling.
We should get into the sympathy business.  There is a killing to be made.

Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #105 on: January 07, 2019, 07:05:22 pm »
Could help with mid-corner bumps?
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Offline Eye of the Tiger

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #106 on: January 10, 2019, 04:16:05 pm »
Could help with mid-corner bumps?

No, but it might help with mid-bump corners.
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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2019, 11:54:14 pm »
1999 Toyota Camry LE 4cyl Auto



+ The ride exceptional. It rides as smooth as it's GM contemporaries, but actually feels well-built.

+ The interior quality is also very high quality. Panel gaps are tight. Everything you touch feels nice and high quality. Despite being 20 years old, the plastics all look basically new.

+ it's whisper quiet

+ it's easy to work on; most things are dead simple.

- It's been awhile since I've driven a car this old, but this car isn't very technologically advanced - even for it's day.

- It's painfully boring inside and out

- The 5SFE 2.2L 4cyl only makes around 130HP; which I guess is ok for it's contempoaries, but I see why buyers may have opted for the V6 Camry or it's american competition. a GM 3.1L N-body would be it's direct competitor, and although it only has about 5-10 more HP, those pushrod engines have torque by the boatload. The Camry doesn't. Even the 2.4L twin cam N-body cars were appreciably faster.

- I'm pretty sure GM and Ford were using computer controlled "fuzzy logic". According to Wikipedia, the Camry's transmission is electronically controlled, but it just feels comparatively primitive compared to it's GM and Ford competition.

- I forgot how 1990's era vehicles AC systems notably rob power. It works just fine, but I turned on the A/C and accelerating into traffic got noticeably worse.

- The steering is super overboosted and has zero feel.



Offline BimmerM3

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2019, 01:23:47 am »
Sounds about right from what I remember. :lol:

My high school/early college girlfriend had one of those that was originally her grandmother's, so it only had like 30k miles despite being like 8 years old at the time.
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2019, 03:55:58 am »
Speaking of Camry's, Europe is getting the new Camry 2.5 Hybrid. I wonder how it will sell since previous Camry's were sales flops here.
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2019, 10:58:32 am »
Speaking of Camry's, Europe is getting the new Camry 2.5 Hybrid. I wonder how it will sell since previous Camry's were sales flops here.
They make much more sense than pretty much any D-Class diesel mainstreamer

1000km/tank no problem.
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Offline 2o6

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2019, 11:05:26 am »
They make much more sense than pretty much any D-Class diesel mainstreamer

1000km/tank no problem.


Thing is, no one really buys cars that size anymore. The Mondeo and Insignia are flops.

Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2019, 05:26:00 pm »
They make much more sense than pretty much any D-Class diesel mainstreamer

1000km/tank no problem.

Diesel vehicle sales in Europe have actually increased over the last months.
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #113 on: June 12, 2019, 06:53:52 am »
People can be irrational
"You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike, than other people do in all their life" - Marco Simoncelli

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Offline Eye of the Tiger

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #114 on: June 12, 2019, 08:12:03 am »
People can be irrational

This is a lie. Fake news. Covfefe.
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #115 on: June 13, 2019, 04:29:02 am »
People can be irrational

Or maybe they trust a modern EURO6d diesel more than a hybrid. :lol:
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #116 on: June 13, 2019, 04:04:48 pm »
Or maybe they trust a modern EURO6d diesel more than a hybrid. :lol:
Like I said people can be irrational

Why would anyone trust diesel after Volkswagen?
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #117 on: June 14, 2019, 03:25:54 am »
Like I said people can be irrational

Why would anyone trust diesel after Volkswagen?

There are companies out there who make good, legal and compliant diesels. In fact the Diesel engine here is being praised and held in higher regard over the gasoline engine. The NOx issue has been solved, particulates are trapped and eliminated by modern particulate filters and the Diesel engine emits less grams of CO2 / km.

Financially a diesel still only makes sense for those who drive a certain high mileage per year, or in large and heavy luxury cars/SUVs.
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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #118 on: June 14, 2019, 11:53:43 am »
Such companies are few and far between. IIRC BMW, MB, VWAG and FCA all have had diesel scandals. And diesels don't emit less than hybrids. The Camry Hybrid makes 207HP, has a 1000+ km fuel range and emits 98g/km. The Passat TDI 190PS emits 118g/km. And with the Camry you don't have to deal with urea or particulate filters or any of that extra maintenance nonsense. Hybrids are also significantly more efficient in urban/city driving as well, and they run on cheaper regular gasoline. Diesel really has no advantages over hybrids except the battery... but hybrid batteries are so small sourcing them is no biggie.
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Offline veeman

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Re: 2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars
« Reply #119 on: June 14, 2019, 09:36:29 pm »
You can modify a diesel car so that it runs on used cooking oil.  Can you do that with a hybrid :lol: