Author Topic: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident  (Read 599 times)

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Offline Laconian

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2019, 11:57:49 am »
Shouldn't they be abandoning cars altogether?    Then again, when you look at the study about people who believe in climate change, it appears that people who don't believe in climate change act in a more eco friendly matter than those who do.  Same apply to those that believes in bigger government are less likely to donate to charitable causes than those who don't.  :huh: 

Awesome strawman, really terrific! Everybody is equally bad, so let's not do anything. Yes.

Well developed mass transit means car ownership is effectively optional in many western European cities. Increasing of Europeans are taking trains instead of planes because of the environmental costs - +10% YOY ridership growth during peak tourism season.
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Offline Xer0

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2019, 01:58:11 pm »
Wimmer, I feel like you need to make an "everything wrong in Germany" thread to compile the long list of things that irk you.  It would be fun to look through it and see how these evolve as the years go.

Awesome strawman, really terrific! Everybody is equally bad, so let's not do anything. Yes.

Well developed mass transit means car ownership is effectively optional in many western European cities. Increasing of Europeans are taking trains instead of planes because of the environmental costs - +10% YOY ridership growth during peak tourism season.

European trains ain't got nothing on the Japanese.  Now those guys have got the public transit system down.

Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2019, 01:59:22 pm »
I know, I know. I am passionate about cars so I view this as an attack on my passion and hobby. And in a way it is. These people are calling for a car-free world. It’s insane. What’s next? A world in which air travel is forbidden? We will always need cars, trucks, airplanes, ships, trains, scooters and other forms of mobility. Yes, their power sources need to change and become cleaner but that will take time.

Emissions-free driving will be the future, but this is a process which won’t happen overnight. Our politicians want a CO2-free Europe by 2050; I think that’s impossible unless they enact radical dictatorship type of laws, which with the EU is a possibility. The EU is not a democracy.

But you know, for me the bigger problem is the rapid human population explosion. For me that’s the biggest contributing factor to global warming. More people means more space, which means more forests are cut down to create space. More food is needed (food production = very CO2 intensive), more homes, more electricity etc. Every week there are 1 million babies born in Africa. Whatever the West does to lower CO2 emissions is for me a waste of time. We need to stop the population explosion in Africa, Asia and elsewhere. Too many people = too many problems.
I like cars too.  My favourites are the ones that pollute the most; '60s muscle cars. :ohyeah:

Certainly, the transition to clean energy must be done in stages and won't happen overnight.  Much progress has already been made, but it will take time to get to a safe level.  In the meantime, it's best just to ignore the 'looney left' as well as the 'radical right'.

As for overpopulation, that's true, but almost impossible to stop.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2019, 02:21:06 pm »
European trains ain't got nothing on the Japanese.  Now those guys have got the public transit system down.

Japanese mass transit seriously turns me on. Oh my god. I was kind of looking forward to riding in a Toyota Crown cab, but after experiencing the extreme convenience and reliability of their subway, I kept thinking "why the hell would I ride in a car?!"
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Offline GoCougs

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2019, 02:31:43 pm »
European trains ain't got nothing on the Japanese.  Now those guys have got the public transit system down.

The Japanese do, and it is a center point in the two-decade long decline of their culture - too expensive, too crowded, too inflexible. Great for visitors but those poor people are fooked in the long run.

Offline Xer0

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2019, 02:43:50 pm »
The Japanese do, and it is a center point in the two-decade long decline of their culture - too expensive, too crowded, too inflexible. Great for visitors but those poor people are fooked in the long run.

The Japanese are just not having sex and are selectively choosing to not continue their culture by getting old and leaving behind no kids, I don't think that a great public transit system is the cause of this though  :hmm:

Offline GoCougs

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2019, 02:46:52 pm »
Shouldn't they be abandoning cars altogether?    Then again, when you look at the study about people who believe in climate change, it appears that people who don't believe in climate change act in a more eco friendly matter than those who do.  Same apply to those that believes in bigger government are less likely to donate to charitable causes than those who don't.  :huh: 

The #2 principal refutation point of Global Warming is the bigger the advocate, the bigger the violator, running up the entire chain to the biggest violator on the planet, the US military ("GW will destabilize the world, so you must give use trillion$ for us to spend to be 'prepared'" (i.e., continue to be the planet's largest consumer of fossil fuels (and polluter in general))).

Once WtP see the politicians, celebrities and CEOs eschew their mansions and vacation homes and yachts and private flights and luxo vehicles, I think WtP will start to maybe take GW seriously, or at least think about looking at it.

Offline GoCougs

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2019, 02:51:29 pm »
The Japanese are just not having sex and are selectively choosing to not continue their culture by getting old and leaving behind no kids, I don't think that a great public transit system is the cause of this though  :hmm:

Because it's so crowded, expensive, and restrictive due to widespread public transportation - having relationships and babies is just one more expense and stressor that isn't worth it.

Offline NomisR

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2019, 03:01:39 pm »
Awesome strawman, really terrific! Everybody is equally bad, so let's not do anything. Yes.

Well developed mass transit means car ownership is effectively optional in many western European cities. Increasing of Europeans are taking trains instead of planes because of the environmental costs - +10% YOY ridership growth during peak tourism season.

If you believe that much about it and believe that it's going to be the end of the world, why shouldn't you give up cars, planes, eating meat, smaller homes and everything else.  This is more the case of Ralph in the Simpsons saying "I did something" when all these people did was to vote to take away the rights of everyone else or in reality, make it more expensive so us plebeians can't afford the luxuries that destroys the climate while the "elites" still continues to enjoy the luxuries while lecturing us that we need to all cut back.  They're not leading by example but instead, telling others to cut back but they're the good guys because they support the initiative to have the government tell people to cut back.   

Offline NomisR

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2019, 03:04:11 pm »
Japanese mass transit seriously turns me on. Oh my god. I was kind of looking forward to riding in a Toyota Crown cab, but after experiencing the extreme convenience and reliability of their subway, I kept thinking "why the hell would I ride in a car?!"

Mass transit is great for younger people without kids but is it really that great once you get up there in age or you have kids?  While I was in Taiwan, while mass transit is almost as convenient as it is in Japan, it's much easier to get a personal transport vehicle to transport your whole family. 

Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2019, 03:27:15 pm »
I like cars too.  My favourites are the ones that pollute the most; '60s muscle cars. :ohyeah:

Certainly, the transition to clean energy must be done in stages and won't happen overnight.  Much progress has already been made, but it will take time to get to a safe level.  In the meantime, it's best just to ignore the 'looney left' as well as the 'radical right'.

As for overpopulation, that's true, but almost impossible to stop.

I think I'm gonna add catalytic converters to the El Camino. Flowmaster makes universal ones that don't really restrict the flow so you lose <5 hp. And then I wouldn't be contributing nearly as much to the worsening smog around here. And I wouldn't smell like gas as bad after driving it.
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Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2019, 03:36:19 pm »
I think I'm gonna add catalytic converters to the El Camino. Flowmaster makes universal ones that don't really restrict the flow so you lose <5 hp. And then I wouldn't be contributing nearly as much to the worsening smog around here. And I wouldn't smell like gas as bad after driving it.
Well, smelling like gas was always one of the benefits of driving a '60s muscle car.  Love the smell of raw gasoline, however, not particularly appreciated by rest of normal society.  Always best to do your bit to promote a cleaner environment. Kudos.
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Offline Soup DeVille

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2019, 03:38:35 pm »
I think I'm gonna add catalytic converters to the El Camino. Flowmaster makes universal ones that don't really restrict the flow so you lose <5 hp. And then I wouldn't be contributing nearly as much to the worsening smog around here. And I wouldn't smell like gas as bad after driving it.

Cats and an EGR valve will take care of about 85% of the difference. Neither hurt performance
We should get into the sympathy business.  There is a killing to be made.

Offline Xer0

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2019, 03:49:43 pm »
Mass transit is great for younger people without kids but is it really that great once you get up there in age or you have kids?  While I was in Taiwan, while mass transit is almost as convenient as it is in Japan, it's much easier to get a personal transport vehicle to transport your whole family.

While I understand that public transit tends to suck and be very inconvenient for a family, I don't see how the trend line goes "great public transit->declining birth rates".  I kinda feel like they are separate and one doesn't cause the other.

Offline Soup DeVille

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2019, 03:51:43 pm »
While I understand that public transit tends to suck and be very inconvenient for a family, I don't see how the trend line goes "great public transit->declining birth rates".  I kinda feel like they are separate and one doesn't cause the other.

Much harder to get knocked up in the backseat.
We should get into the sympathy business.  There is a killing to be made.

Offline NomisR

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2019, 04:06:29 pm »
While I understand that public transit tends to suck and be very inconvenient for a family, I don't see how the trend line goes "great public transit->declining birth rates".  I kinda feel like they are separate and one doesn't cause the other.

Yeah, not sure where that's headed.  There's a completely different issue with Japan, although, on public transportations men today make an effort to make their hands visible so they don't get accused of anything.. so there's that..

Much harder to get knocked up in the backseat.

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Offline MX793

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2019, 07:14:04 pm »
Much harder to get knocked up in the backseat.

I seem to recall a story about Henry Ford reducing the size of the rear seats in the Model T after reading that a sizable portion of children were being conceived in the back seat of his cars.
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Offline r0tor

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2019, 07:20:08 pm »
It's the lack of drifting to make girls pants fall down that's the problem.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2019, 07:25:54 pm »
I seem to recall a story about Henry Ford reducing the size of the rear seats in the Model T after reading that a sizable portion of children were being conceived in the back seat of his cars.

Sounds apocryphal...
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Offline MX793

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2019, 07:30:34 pm »
Sounds apocryphal...

Found it

https://www.learner.org/series/biographyofamerica/prog20/transcript/page03.html

Quote
And boys started picking up girls at their homes and taking them for joyrides, moving courtship from the front porch to the back seat of the family Ford. Ever the prude, Ford tried to discourage this by making smaller back seats. But with the Model T being a full seven feet high, couples -- it became the joke -- could make love standing up.

Recall hearing it somewhere else, as well.  Maybe in the "Cars that Built America" documentary miniseries on History?
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2019, 02:54:39 am »
Shouldn't they be abandoning cars altogether?    Then again, when you look at the study about people who believe in climate change, it appears that people who don't believe in climate change act in a more eco friendly matter than those who do.  Same apply to those that believes in bigger government are less likely to donate to charitable causes than those who don't.  :huh: 

What is the alternative? People in cities could theoretically make it through the day without a car, but the people living in the provinces require a car. The much applauded “efficient and reliable German public transportation” system is a joke, especially the railways which have been privatized and are now managed in such a way that they have low expenses and maximum profit - the railways here suck.

Climate change is occurring, but I just don’t see how we can stop it. The figures which we get from the critics are that 96% of CO2 is made by nature and 4% by man. How can this influence our global climate? I think we have to adapt to climate change. Attempting to “stop” or “slow it down” seem like a waste of time, money and resources to me, especially because decarbonization is expensive and we are a carbon/fossil fuel society.

Today in the Bundestag Field Marshall Angela von Paulus, eh, Merkel, basically stated that Germany is going to do everything in its power to become CO2 neutral. Great. Life here is going to become even more expensive and so will food, car ownership etc.  :banghead:
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2019, 02:59:16 am »
Wimmer, I feel like you need to make an "everything wrong in Germany" thread to compile the long list of things that irk you.  It would be fun to look through it and see how these evolve as the years go.

Trust me, there’s so much crap happening here and it boggles the mind. But Germans keep voting for the political parties that want to remain on the same path. It’s infuriating.



European trains ain't got nothing on the Japanese.  Now those guys have got the public transit system down.

Yep. Recently read an article where Japan has a new generation of Shinkansen trains which reaches speeds of up to 400 km/h between cities which are only 50 km (so like 25 miles) apart.

The last time I took a train from Munich to Hamburg using an Intercity Express Train, that piece of shit slugged along at speeds between 90 and 120 km/h with the occasional burst into the 140 km/h section. Pathetically slow. And that’s the best and “fastest” train in Germany. Our railway network is a joke and our railways are not designed for high speed. And that’s the reason why the Intercity trains are so slow despite them actually being capable of much higher speeds.
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Offline cawimmer430

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2019, 03:06:53 am »
I like cars too.  My favourites are the ones that pollute the most; '60s muscle cars. :ohyeah:

Certainly, the transition to clean energy must be done in stages and won't happen overnight.  Much progress has already been made, but it will take time to get to a safe level.  In the meantime, it's best just to ignore the 'looney left' as well as the 'radical right'.

As for overpopulation, that's true, but almost impossible to stop.

Agreed.

But what’s happening in my country is pure idiocy. We have a lack of EV charging infrastructure, a lack of EV choices and energy supply problems - and still the government wants to make owning ICE-powered cars more expensive so that Germany can reach its CO2 emission goals set by the Paris Climate Accords.

Meanwhile, millions of Germans still depend on their cars to get to work because they have working times at which no public transport system is active, or they work somewhere where there is no public transport or if they used our slow and unreliable public transport system they’d arrive late for work.

Before the government makes owning ICE cars artificially more expensive, they need to invest in the infrastructure for EVs etc. This takes decades. But not in Crap Hole Germany. Here we have no EV charging infrastructure and things are being set in place to make owning ICE cars hell on earth. Now they want to introduce a carbon tax... and furthermore Germany is about to enter a recession and the government wants to further increase taxes... it’s madness.  :(
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Offline giant_mtb

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2019, 06:57:25 am »
What is the alternative? People in cities could theoretically make it through the day without a car, but the people living in the provinces require a car. The much applauded “efficient and reliable German public transportation” system is a joke, especially the railways which have been privatized and are now managed in such a way that they have low expenses and maximum profit - the railways here suck.

Climate change is occurring, but I just don’t see how we can stop it. The figures which we get from the critics are that 96% of CO2 is made by nature and 4% by man. How can this influence our global climate? I think we have to adapt to climate change. Attempting to “stop” or “slow it down” seem like a waste of time, money and resources to me, especially because decarbonization is expensive and we are a carbon/fossil fuel society.

Today in the Bundestag Field Marshall Angela von Paulus, eh, Merkel, basically stated that Germany is going to do everything in its power to become CO2 neutral. Great. Life here is going to become even more expensive and so will food, car ownership etc.  :banghead:

You ever heard of methane?

Offline Xer0

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2019, 08:32:28 am »
Much harder to get knocked up in the backseat.

Some crazy shit happens in the back of the L trains in Chicago.

Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2019, 09:39:51 am »
Agreed.

But what’s happening in my country is pure idiocy. We have a lack of EV charging infrastructure, a lack of EV choices and energy supply problems - and still the government wants to make owning ICE-powered cars more expensive so that Germany can reach its CO2 emission goals set by the Paris Climate Accords.

Meanwhile, millions of Germans still depend on their cars to get to work because they have working times at which no public transport system is active, or they work somewhere where there is no public transport or if they used our slow and unreliable public transport system they’d arrive late for work.

Before the government makes owning ICE cars artificially more expensive, they need to invest in the infrastructure for EVs etc. This takes decades. But not in Crap Hole Germany. Here we have no EV charging infrastructure and things are being set in place to make owning ICE cars hell on earth. Now they want to introduce a carbon tax... and furthermore Germany is about to enter a recession and the government wants to further increase taxes... it’s madness.  :(

But making things more expensive is how you encourage new solutions, like EV charging networks and better public transportation.

You may disagree with it, but it does make a bit of sense.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2019, 10:54:04 am »
If Germany is serious, they need to get off coal. Too bad they're so uptight about nuclear.
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Offline AutobahnSHO

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2019, 11:26:11 am »
If Germany is serious, they need to get off coal. Too bad they're so uptight about nuclear.

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Offline NomisR

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2019, 12:27:53 pm »
If Germany is serious, they need to get off coal. Too bad they're so uptight about nuclear.

What's the actual reasoning behind this?

Offline Xer0

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Re: Berliners call for SUV ban after fatal traffic accident
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2019, 12:35:27 pm »
What's the actual reasoning behind this?

Nuclear is pretty scary for a lot of people and I'm sure the recent HBO series about Chernobyl freaked a bunch of people out.  Even France is scaling back its Nuclear reactors and isn't building new ones to replace its older units, IIRC.