Well, cocks...

[Secret Chimp]

I took off my front wheels today and examined my steering a bit more.
Joyous news- I can grab and wiggle the left knuckle back and forth maybe a quarter of an inch or so, but the right side I can't move. I looked at the tie rod end when I wiggled it and it stayed solid, which means that something on the left side of the inside of my steering rack is bad. I'm assuming it's the left inner tie rod since I can't move the right side of the steering assembly at all.
I can get a new inner tie rod end for 25-45 bucks depending if I want Honda OEM or not. I'd have a tire shop install the thing. Considering both the condition I've found and the age of the car, is this a good idea, or am I likely to have the entire rack poop out on me not too much later? (i.e. should I drop a benjamin on a lo-miles junkyard rack and have that installed instead)

[S204STi]

Racks fail very rarely, because the tie rods are the weak link in the assembly.? Which is a good thing, so go ahead and replace that inner rod end if you are certain that is it.? Keep in mind that a very loose wheel bearing will look and feel very similarly, so maybe have someone wiggle the tire side to side while you take a look at your brake rotor compared to the dust shield.? If they move in relation to each other it's the wheel bearing, not the inner rod end.

[Secret Chimp]

Racks fail very rarely, because the tie rods are the weak link in the assembly.  Which is a good thing, so go ahead and replace that inner rod end if you are certain that is it.  Keep in mind that a very loose wheel bearing will look and feel very similarly, so maybe have someone wiggle the tire side to side while you take a look at your brake rotor compared to the dust shield.  If they move in relation to each other it's the wheel bearing, not the inner rod end.

I had the wheels off and physically grabbed the tie rod and pulled it back and forth. The whole upright arm moved right along with it. I didn't just grab the tire and waggle it, I isolated it to the steering system.
If I can find a garage that will take an outside part [I don't want to see a $80 parts charge for when I can find the part for $30) OR just give me a freaking estimate over the phone (I've described the problem and solution precisely to a few local tire places and I get the "bring it on in and we'll take a look at it") I'll have the inner rod replaced, but I still have concerns for the longevity of the whole thing.
The fluid looks and smells awful, and I'm concerned that it's going to start damaging some part of the system. At the same time, the seals don't sound too good - it makes a big shuddering-sounding whuuuuuduhddddd when I spin the wheel after backing out of a parking spot, and the last place I had it aligned at back when it was cold said that it had a slight leak to keep an eye on (no leaks in summer). So I don't know if I should preemptively replace this whole thing, or have a new inner tie rod put in and then get the old fluid out and assume the new fluid won't sneak past the old seals, or leave the old fluid in there and hope it doesn't break something.

[S204STi]

Oh yes, I remember that leak thing now.  Hmmm....  You could find a place that does a power steering flush, and then have them add some Bar's Stopleak to it.  Ghetto, but worth a shot.

[Secret Chimp]

Oh yes, I remember that leak thing now.? Hmmm....? You could find a place that does a power steering flush, and then have them add some Bar's Stopleak to it.? Ghetto, but worth a shot.

That sounds decent.
I found a higher-res picture of the inner tie rods, and they look threaded on both ends. Is there some inner thread adjustment that I would get wrong if I did it myself, or should I be able to simply unscrew the old rod from inside the rack and screw in the new one to a torque specification?

[S204STi]

That sounds decent.
I found a higher-res picture of the inner tie rods, and they look threaded on both ends. Is there some inner thread adjustment that I would get wrong if I did it myself, or should I be able to simply unscrew the old rod from inside the rack and screw in the new one to a torque specification?

Sometimes it requires a special tool to get at the inner rod to unbolt it from the rack.  If you can get at it yourself, just carefully remove the old boot clamps and remove it, then when reinstalling it make sure to use some sort of medium strength loc-tite so that there is little chance of it coming loose.  That would be bad.  Then, wrench it down really good, since you can't get a torque wrench on it anyway, till it's good and tight.  Use cable ties to resecure the boot.

[Secret Chimp]

Sometimes it requires a special tool to get at the inner rod to unbolt it from the rack.  If you can get at it yourself, just carefully remove the old boot clamps and remove it, then when reinstalling it make sure to use some sort of medium strength loc-tite so that there is little chance of it coming loose.  That would be bad.  Then, wrench it down really good, since you can't get a torque wrench on it anyway, till it's good and tight.  Use cable ties to resecure the boot.

It looks like AutoZone stocks an inner tie rod tool you can use on ratchets as well as the inner tie rod I need, so I can make sure the tool fits. I'll pick everything up this evening and hopefully I can get it done on Sunday, barring any problem with getting things loose - and that's always been my problem :P
I'll do the old 1/8th inch of a tape measure alignment until I can get it to a shop on Sunday or Monday.

EDIT: I got the part, and it looks like I just need to pull off the boot to remove the thing from the rack. The inner thread has this kind of Tic Tac-shaped surface on the end of it that looks like I just need to lock some Vise Grips on it to break it loose.

[Secret Chimp]

Alright, I packed it in early in the game today because I can't figure out how to un-bend this lock washer thing.

It's closed over the surface that I need to get a wrench around to bust it out of the rack.
It's rather thick metal (about the same gauge as a large washer), so I couldn't pry a screwdriver or my chisel underneath the middle of it where it's in contact with that bean-shaped wrenching surface. My only option appears to be to somehow slip something through the little hollow created at the base of the bend and drag it forward to un-bend it or something. I can't hacksaw it off, there's no clearance for that. I also can't grab the sides of it and pry it up with vise grips since the whole thing is rounded and any side-clamping would just slip right off.
If I had a Dremel with a metal cutting tool, badabing, but I don't.
How could I unbend/remove this thing? I'll pay a few bucks for special tools, but otherwise I'm ready to call a garage that takes walk-in parts (i.e. not NTB, Tuffy, or other chain shops) and have them do this along with my rotors and front engine mount, while we're working on things I can't seem to do.

[The Pirate]

Alright, I packed it in early in the game today because I can't figure out how to un-bend this lock washer thing.

It's closed over the surface that I need to get a wrench around to bust it out of the rack.
It's rather thick metal (about the same gauge as a large washer), so I couldn't pry a screwdriver or my chisel underneath the middle of it where it's in contact with that bean-shaped wrenching surface. My only option appears to be to somehow slip something through the little hollow created at the base of the bend and drag it forward to un-bend it or something. I can't hacksaw it off, there's no clearance for that. I also can't grab the sides of it and pry it up with vise grips since the whole thing is rounded and any side-clamping would just slip right off.
If I had a Dremel with a metal cutting tool, badabing, but I don't.
How could I unbend/remove this thing? I'll pay a few bucks for special tools, but otherwise I'm ready to call a garage that takes walk-in parts (i.e. not NTB, Tuffy, or other chain shops) and have them do this along with my rotors and front engine mount, while we're working on things I can't seem to do.

Do you need to reuse the washer?  If you can find a replacement one, it'd be worth it to spend $50 for a dremel to grind it off.  Use it a few times, and the dremel would more than pay for itself.

How is it on there?  Is it just a press fit, or are there tabs?

I realize that I'm not being that much of a help, but that's what I would do.


Edit:  You mentioned having vice grips.  Just clamp the shit out of it, and try to wiggle it off.  Drop a bit of lube or something on the surface in question as well. 

[Secret Chimp]

Do you need to reuse the washer?  If you can find a replacement one, it'd be worth it to spend $50 for a dremel to grind it off.  Use it a few times, and the dremel would more than pay for itself.

How is it on there?  Is it just a press fit, or are there tabs?

I realize that I'm not being that much of a help, but that's what I would do.


Edit:  You mentioned having vice grips.  Just clamp the shit out of it, and try to wiggle it off.  Drop a bit of lube or something on the surface in question as well. 

I have a new lock washer with the rod end I bought. It just comes as a round thing that slips over the rack-end threads that you're supposed to bend down over that wrenching surface when you have the new one torqued in.
Even if I get that off, I can't tell how I'm supposed to loosen everything. I tried loosening the jam nut on the tie rod end and couldn't even get started - it's like I need a third arm to hold on to everything while I pull in two different directions. Unless I find wrenches that have two foot long handles I don't know how I could get everything loose (this is after a liberal soaking of PB Blaster and some pack of rust-buster crap that came with the inner tie rod).
If I was made of time and money I'd dive in, but I'm real wary of this now thanks to my previous experience with my brake rotors :P
I need to be certain that whatever I do will actually work - I don't want to waste 2 hours not getting it off

[S204STi]

I just take one of my pry-bars with an angled tip and hammer it back.  Of course, I also can get at it from many more angles than you can on the ground....

Oh, and getting it bent back down is hard too.

Sorry, I didn't realize you had this or I might have warned you.

[Secret Chimp]

Well, I think I may end up just buying a Dremel and cutting through the whole freaking bolt to get a socket around the end if I have to, because I've been quoted at $250-300 to get this thing replaced so far from a tire shop and a Honda dealer, and $225 for labor-only and an alignment from an independent shop that would take my parts. (Then that last shop called back to tell me it might require the rack being taken out, which would bring me to $660)
I've looked at the factory manual and know what needs to be done, and I can slide the entire rod end clear out of the rack casing by turning my wheel all the way. Either I'm underestimating what it takes to unbolt the old and wrench in the new, or the shops I've had recommended to me have ridiculous labor rates, because what I've heard is about twice of what I was expecting.
I have a big new huge floor jack that allows me to get the car up in the air by a few upward notches on my jackstands, so I can get under the car if I need to.
Once I somehow slice or mash back that lock washer, what would be the best way to get the tie rod unscrewed from the rack? The service manual shows two hand wrenches being used, one on the inner rack surface and the other on that bean-shaped surface that that the lock washer holds on to. I suppose that could be done if I bought a very long-handled hand wrench and put my whole weight into it by doing it from underneath the car, but it looks rather difficult even then.
I'm also wondering if I could Dremel off that big ball joint cylinder from the inner stud so I could fit a socket around that bean-head and wrench it off with my breaker bar.
I don't have any pry bars aside from a 15 pound crowbar, just a really huge screwdriver, but I can always give that a try.
I'm not going at this thing again until Wednesday (next day off) so I have some time to consider if I want to whang on this thing or grind it to pieces. Installing looks like a cinch, it's just getting this thing out (as usual).

[Eye of the Tiger]

Dremels suck. The cutting wheels break constantly. Can you try a sawzall, perhaps?

[S204STi]

Get a 3" cutoff wheel at Home Depot for $25 and it comes with some wheels.  Of course, this assumes you have an air compressor...

[Secret Chimp]

Get a 3" cutoff wheel at Home Depot for $25 and it comes with some wheels.  Of course, this assumes you have an air compressor...

I do not, and I assume I can't use a bicycle pump instead :P

[S204STi]

I do not, and I assume I can't use a bicycle pump instead :P

It would take you a month.

[Secret Chimp]

Alright, so what I can do is get a Dremel and a ton of cutting wheels, or bang on the thing and use some huge wrenches, are those my best options?

[Tave]

I love how the technical questions/advice have boiled down to "bang on the thing and use some huge wrenches."

[Eye of the Tiger]

Alright, so what I can do is get a Dremel and a ton of cutting wheels, or bang on the thing and use some huge wrenches, are those my best options?

Cutting bolts with Dremel cut-off wheels is like playing the lottery. Sometimes all it takes is one, but sometimes it takes half of the $7 pack. It will work, it's just annoying.

[Secret Chimp]

I'll try banging first, otherwise a $60 dremel and $7's worth of wheels is better than $225+ to have someone else do the same work :P

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'll try banging first, otherwise a $60 dremel and $7's worth of wheels is better than $225+ to have someone else do the same work :P

Dremels are good for very small delicate work, but not much else.
For your time and money, you might be better off getting a regular-sized angle grinder or a sawzall... of course that depends on how much space you have to work with.

[Eye of the Tiger]

ONLY $19.99!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4095

[Eye of the Tiger]

...OR you can get a high-speed air body saw for $29.99 this air compressor for $59.99:


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36843



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95275


All for little more than the price of a Dremel.? Is this top quality stuff? Probably not, but for the price, I don't think you can go wrong.



PS, don't forget to pickup a hose http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=54075 

[Secret Chimp]

I can't use a Sawzall. I don't have enough space to allow for the reciprocation of a blade like that.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I can't use a Sawzall. I don't have enough space to allow for the reciprocation of a blade like that.

PLasma cutter! 


Yeah, I guess a Dremel will be your best option then, if pounding on it doesn't work.

[Soup DeVille]

I love how the technical questions/advice have boiled down to "bang on the thing and use some huge wrenches."

I work on multi-millin dollar one-of-a-kind machinery.

You'd be surprised how many time thats exactly what's needed.

And its what's needed here: no dremels or body saws are necessary.

A small pry bar or unloved flat tip screwdriver and a hammer will flatten it out just fine.

[S204STi]

Brute force and ignorance are my personal favorite tools.

[Secret Chimp]

Today I bought a huge cold chisel, one of those soft hammers with the sand-filled head, and a big new crescent wrench.
Tomorrow I shall bang the shit out of this thing until I achieve success, or a broken steering rack :P

[Eye of the Tiger]

Today I bought a huge cold chisel, one of those soft hammers with the sand-filled head, and a big new crescent wrench.
Tomorrow I shall bang the shit out of this thing until I achieve success, or a broken steering rack :P

You know, they do make air chisels... they make your hand go numb after about 5 seconds and earplugs are mandatory, but they're really great for destroying things.?

[Secret Chimp]

Busted that shit up.
It took me 6 hours, but it's all on there. My steering wheel is at a funny angle, but I'm taking it to the tire shop first thing tomorrow.
Banging back the lock washer took awhile, but after I had clearance I just needed a brief haul on my small vise-grips and it came loose.
The absolute worst part was getting the new boot on. Whatever idiot designed the thing made the rack-side end of the boot about 2/3 of an inch too small to fit around the boot collar. I literally spent 45 minutes trying all different ways of using needle-nose vise-grips, pliers, and screwdrivers to get it stretched, but it just wouldn't fit. I ended up having to  cut three sections into the collar part of the boot to fit it around there. After the alignment is done tomorrow I'm going to seal up that end of it with some black silicone RTV.
I also ended up having to buy a new tie-rod end, as the jam nut or the rod itself was completely frozen on the inner tie rod's threads. I tried massive amounts of PB Blaster, heating up the jam nut with a match and then using an ice cube on the threads. I even hacksawed the old inner rod end off right above the jam nut and still couldn't move anything.
Still, with tools, parts, and the alignment, I'm only down about $100-120 (depending on how much a simple two-wheel toe adjustment is, I can't remember) and a day off, which is a lot better than $225+.
Up next looks like new wheels and tires, as the previous owner put some heavy uneven inside-outside wear on the shoulders, and it looks like
this tie rod problem combined with a wheel that got bent back in winter has a big time rotational uneven wear thing working on my front left tire (from almost bald to normal compared to the rest of the tire as I rotate it around). I'd like to get aftermarket wheels, but I'm going to see how cheap I could get some steelies that would accept a wider tire than what the car takes now (right now I roll on 185 pizza cutters, I'd like to move up to at least 205s or 215s)