GTO vs. GT500

[Raza]

It's funny because the car is severely undertired for acceleration runs, however it is nearly impossible to spin the car with the tires it's got.

!!!

I've heard of awful lift throttle oversteer, though. 

[SVT666]

!!!

I've heard of awful lift throttle oversteer, though.?

I've never hard or read that.

[Raza]

I've never hard or read that.

Car magazine is the first place I read that. 

[SVT666]

Car magazine is the first place I read that.?

R&T, MT, C&D, MM&FF, 5.0 Mustang, and Modified Mustang don't make any mention of it from what I remember.

[Raza]

R&T, MT, C&D, MM&FF, 5.0 Mustang, and Modified Mustang don't make any mention of it from what I remember.

Three of those are Mustang publications, so it's easy for them to overlook, not notice, or simply omit details like that, and the other three don't always inspire confidence.

That's not to say that many English publications are not anti-American car biased, though.  I suspect, as with many things, the truth lies somewhere in between. 

LTO makes sense, since it has the same sort of weight distribution as a FWD car. 

[SVT666]

Three of those are Mustang publications, so it's easy for them to overlook, not notice, or simply omit details like that, and the other three don't always inspire confidence.

That's not to say that many English publications are not anti-American car biased, though.? I suspect, as with many things, the truth lies somewhere in between.?

LTO makes sense, since it has the same sort of weight distribution as a FWD car.?

Two of those Mustang publications (MM&FF and 5.0 Mustang) are from the same publisher and are widely regarded as the most honest reviewers of Mustangs around.  MM&FF absolutely ripped Ford for the weight of the GT500, picked a base Corvette over a GT500, picked a Corvette Z51 over a Roush Stage 3, and were the first magazines to get the F-bodies into the 12s.  They did it before the GM fanboy rags were able to do it.

[rohan]

I'm sorry to say this Rohan, but unless you have that dyno proven I find it hard to believe.? Exhaust is worth 5-8hp at if it's a catback, a full cold air induction kit would be worth maybe 8-10hp and and an ECU flash is 10hp max without other modifications.? If I was being optimistic, I would say you have 430hp at the flywheel.? Realistically, it's probably more like 422-425hp at the flywheel.

Having said that, if you have hit 60 mph in 4.6 seconds you would have taken a stock GT500 Vert without a problem because the GT500 vert hits 60 mph in 4.9 seconds.

No offense but I don't really care if you belive or not- Flowmaster x-pipe with catalytics-flowmaster exhaust-? flashpack super tuner-? and the cold air induction by K&N.? It's not much mods compared to others but it's been dynoed by Pauls High Performance in Michigan Center Mi and it is 47 horse better than stock and 35 tourqe.?

[the_koof]

I'd say that the GT500 would win the race if it were to happen.

If it were my money? I'd buy a GTO LS2 6-speed in a heartbeat over a GT500. Just really not impressed by it. Not to mention I wouldn't have to pay a ridiculous "market adjusted" price for a GTO either. With how much it would cost to buy a GT500, I could get MTI to build me a 455 HO GTO with 605 hp and 610 lb-ft of torque for an extra $20k. I would still have money left over after that for brakes, suspension, wheels and tires and MTI's RA-7 package to add up to another 40 hp.

[SVT666]

I'd say that the GT500 would win the race if it were to happen.

Well, you're wrong.  It's a GT500 vert that takes 4.9 to 60 mph and Rohan's GTO has been timed at 4.6.

[SVT666]

No offense but I don't really care if you belive or not- Flowmaster x-pipe with catalytics-flowmaster exhaust-? flashpack super tuner-? and the cold air induction by K&N.? It's not much mods compared to others but it's been dynoed by Pauls High Performance in Michigan Center Mi and it is 47 horse better than stock and 35 tourqe.?

Like I said, If it's dyno proven I would have to believe it.  I didn't know you had the X-pipe.  Was the car dynoed before the mods too?  I've heard that GM underrated the GTO's engine.

[JYODER240]

Well, you're wrong.? It's a GT500 vert that takes 4.9 to 60 mph and Rohan's GTO has been timed at 4.6.

0-60times are not an exact science like that. You could run a GT500 from 0-60 ten times and get a wide range of numbers. The same goes for Rohan's GTO.

[SVT666]

0-60times are not an exact science like that. You could run a GT500 from 0-60 ten times and get a wide range of numbers. The same goes for Rohan's GTO.

The GT500 vert is about 3 to 4 tenths slower to 60 then the coupe.  Rohan is talking about the vert.  Rohan would have taken him.  Dude, I can't believe you are trying to tell me that the race would be a lot closer or that the GT500 could win the race when I'm the Mustang troll.  Unless Rohan fucks the launch, he's got that race won.

[JYODER240]

The GT500 vert is about 3 to 4 tenths slower to 60 then the coupe.? Rohan is talking about the vert.? Rohan would have taken him.? Dude, I can't believe you are trying to tell me that the race would be a lot closer or that the GT500 could win the race when I'm the Mustang troll.? Unless Rohan fucks the launch, he's got that race won.

You don't seem to understand how much the driver and the launch comes into play. Just because at one time Rohan's GTO ran 0-60 in 4.6 and at a completely different time, place, and driver a GT500 ran 3 tenths of a second faster doesn't mean that Rohan would easily win that race.

[Cobra93]

I was at a light this morning when a GT500 convertible pulled up alongside me and wanted to race.? I would have loved the race- but I was in a right turn only lane and had to get to work. as a professional law enforcement officer, I knew not to engage in an illegal speed contest on a public thoroughfare. ? ? It would have been fun? both dangerous and illegal- and I wondered all morning who would have wno that one won an acceleration contest at a professional sanctioned racetrack with the proper safety and security regulations.?

[SVT666]

You don't seem to understand how much the driver and the launch comes into play. Just because at one time Rohan's GTO ran 0-60 in 4.6 and at a completely different time, place, and driver a GT500 ran 3 tenths of a second faster doesn't mean that Rohan would easily win that race.

Buddy, I've been driving high horsepower Mustangs since you were in elementary school.  I know all about the importance of launches and driver importance to a race.   The GT500 vert is simply overmatched by a 450 hp GTO that weighs several hundred pounds less.  The only way that GT500 vert would have won the race is if it was modified or Rohan fucked up his launch or a shift.

[Raza]

Buddy, I've been driving high horsepower Mustangs since you were in elementary school.? I know all about the importance of launches and driver importance to a race. ? The GT500 vert is simply overmatched by a 450 hp GTO that weighs several hundred pounds less.? The only way that GT500 vert would have won the race is if it was modified or Rohan fucked up his launch or a shift.

Ooh, pulling the age card. 

Not that I disagree...

[SVT666]

Ooh, pulling the age card.?

Not that I disagree...

I just hate it when these young posters think they know more about launching high horsepower cars then me.  If it was ChrisV I was arguing with I would give him his due since he's been racing for so long, but when some kid barely out of high school thinks he's instructing me on launching and driver importance in a race it just gets to me.  Sorry.

[GoCougs]

There's a continuum of the quality of shifts and launches (not simply good or bad).

[the_koof]

I guess I was wrong.

[S204STi]

I just hate it when these young posters think they know more about launching high horsepower cars then me.? If it was ChrisV I was arguing with I would give him his due since he's been racing for so long, but when some kid barely out of high school thinks he's instructing me on launching and driver importance in a race it just gets to me.? Sorry.

Not to jump on Jyoder's nuts , but after watching some intense drag racing for 7 hours a couple of weeks ago, the launch makes all the difference in the world, particularly if the cars are evenly matched, or if you're racing handicapped.? Well, really in any case I suppose it's important.? As an example, the main advantage the latest round of rally rockets has is the ability to pull a clutch-hammering redline launch and get way ahead with little wheelspin, but if you bugger it and bog the motor you're done, son.

[hounddog]

Like I said, If it's dyno proven I would have to believe it.? I didn't know you had the X-pipe.? Was the car dynoed before the mods too?? I've heard that GM underrated the GTO's engine.

The car came from my neighbor, we put on everything but the cold air induction in his drive before Randy ever bought it.   He had the car dynoed before the K&N system went on.  They told him that would only give him about 6-8 more horse, but would help it with the other stuff done.  Never dynoed before the bolt ons as far as I know.   

[JYODER240]

Buddy, I've been driving high horsepower Mustangs since you were in elementary school.? I know all about the importance of launches and driver importance to a race. ? The GT500 vert is simply overmatched by a 450 hp GTO that weighs several hundred pounds less.? The only way that GT500 vert would have won the race is if it was modified or Rohan fucked up his launch or a shift.

Get off your high-horse. It doesn't matter what car you've been driving. At one point at one track in certian conditions with one driver Rohan's GTO ran 0-60 in 4.6seconds. Now only a completely different day, on a different track, under different conditions, with a different driver a GT500 ran it in 4.9 seconds. Even how many miles are on a car can have an effect on that. You're telling me that the GTO would easily beat the GT500? Look at how many different times a magazine can get for a car. One test its best run out of many may be 4.1 and the next test 4.5. There's too many variables to say that on some random intersection between two different drivers of different skill levels, that just because a car has the edge on paper means it would win.

[S204STi]

Get off your high-horse. It doesn't matter what car you've been driving. At one point at one track in certian conditions with one driver Rohan's GTO ran 0-60 in 4.6seconds. Now only a completely different day, on a different track, under different conditions, with a different driver a GT500 ran it in 4.9 seconds. Even how many miles are on a car can have an effect on that. You're telling me that the GTO would easily beat the GT500? Look at how many different times a magazine can get for a car. One test its best run out of many may be 4.1 and the next test 4.5. There's too many variables to say that on some random intersection between two different drivers of different skill levels, that just because a car has the edge on paper means it would win.

Well reasoned.

[the_koof]

+1

[SVT666]

Get off your high-horse. It doesn't matter what car you've been driving. At one point at one track in certian conditions with one driver Rohan's GTO ran 0-60 in 4.6seconds. Now only a completely different day, on a different track, under different conditions, with a different driver a GT500 ran it in 4.9 seconds. Even how many miles are on a car can have an effect on that. You're telling me that the GTO would easily beat the GT500? Look at how many different times a magazine can get for a car. One test its best run out of many may be 4.1 and the next test 4.5. There's too many variables to say that on some random intersection between two different drivers of different skill levels, that just because a car has the edge on paper means it would win.

I guess we should stop talking acceleration times altogether on this site if it happened once out of many runs on a certain day with the stars lined up just right and the moon was full yada yada yada....

A bone stock GTO will do 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and a GT500 vert who's best magazine time I've ever seen is 4.8 seconds with most times at 4.9 seconds.  You're telling me that a GTO with 45 MORE horsepower then the stock car will not be faster?  I know all about launches and shifting, but for these speculation threads about what could have been, you have to go based on what these cars are capable of...and that's it.  We don't even know if the GT500 was stock or if the driver doesn't know what he's doing behind the wheel.  It's all speculation.  With these types of threads, you have to assume everything is equal, or else why bother discussing it.  I mean technically, if I got a better launch and the driver of the GT500 couldn't shift worth shit I could beat him in a stock 1995 Mustang GT with 215 hp.  Your argument is pointless.  Rohan is driving a car with 45 more hp then it came with and when it was stock it runs just as fast or faster then a stock GT500 vert.  With 45 more horsepower, it would most certainly be the faster car....driver's being equal.

[Raza]

I just hate it when these young posters think they know more about launching high horsepower cars then me.  If it was ChrisV I was arguing with I would give him his due since he's been racing for so long, but when some kid barely out of high school thinks he's instructing me on launching and driver importance in a race it just gets to me.  Sorry.

Well, like I said, I don't disagree with you.  Obviously the launch is incredibly important, but also obviously, you already knew that.  I think we all know that here.  But, considering Rohan's car is an automatic (add .2 of a second before you account for the mods, et al) and the GT500 is a stick, there was a far better chance of the GT500 botching the launch than Randy.  It's simple logic, really. 

[JYODER240]

I guess we should stop talking acceleration times altogether on this site if it happened once out of many runs on a certain day with the stars lined up just right and the moon was full yada yada yada....

A bone stock GTO will do 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and a GT500 vert who's best magazine time I've ever seen is 4.8 seconds with most times at 4.9 seconds.? You're telling me that a GTO with 45 MORE horsepower then the stock car will not be faster?? I know all about launches and shifting, but for these speculation threads about what could have been, you have to go based on what these cars are capable of...and that's it.? We don't even know if the GT500 was stock or if the driver doesn't know what he's doing behind the wheel.? It's all speculation.? With these types of threads, you have to assume everything is equal, or else why bother discussing it.? I mean technically, if I got a better launch and the driver of the GT500 couldn't shift worth shit I could beat him in a stock 1995 Mustang GT with 215 hp.? Your argument is pointless.? Rohan is driving a car with 45 more hp then it came with and when it was stock it runs just as fast or faster then a stock GT500 vert.? With 45 more horsepower, it would most certainly be the faster car....driver's being equal.

I never said than Rohan's car wasn't faster. I just never gaurenteed it would win. All things being equal then yes it would win but at some random intersection all things are not equal. Go to a drag strip have the same driver make several runs in each car and then you'd have a much better idea of what car is faster. But at some random intersection with two cars this closely matched it becomes a drivers race.

[Raza]

I think you're spending a lot of time pointing out and arguing the obvious.  Yes, I could, in my Passat, beat an M3 in a race to 60mph should he botch his launch badly enough.  But we're not talking about extreme cases.  They're in the realm of possibilty, but let's talk more about the middle of the bell curve.  It's far more likely for the GT500 driver to either bog or spin than it is for Randy's GTO to get a bad launch. 

[JYODER240]

I think you're spending a lot of time pointing out and arguing the obvious.? Yes, I could, in my Passat, beat an M3 in a race to 60mph should he botch his launch badly enough.? But we're not talking about extreme cases.? They're in the realm of possibilty, but let's talk more about the middle of the bell curve.? It's far more likely for the GT500 driver to either bog or spin than it is for Randy's GTO to get a bad launch.?

This isn't really an extreme case. These two cars are pretty evenly matched. Yes the GTO should have the edge but it would still probably be a close race. For example .3seconds at 60mph means what that the GT500 is at the GTOs rear bumper. All it would probably take is an very good launch by the GT500 and a decent launch by Rohan and he could lose. All things being equal the GTO should beat the GT500 to 60, they would probably be pretty even by about 100 and after that the GT500 woud probably pull away. But at some intersection with two closely matched car it's anyone's race.

[Raza]

I tired of fucking arguing with you people. 

Just shut the fuck up.  I'm saying that you're arguing about stupid shit that isn't worth arguing about.  He knows launch is a factor.  You know launch is a factor.  Why the fuck are you arguing?