Swung by the local Ford dealer today...

[SVT666]

Not a chance. The GT500 has been proven to be at best a stock high 12 second car.

12.25 in MM&FF. 

[SVT666]

? ? ? Your whole argument thus far has been based off the fact that rich baby boomers are paying more for the shelby name which they lusted after as kids. So now that there is a care that looks similar to the old gt500's they are willing to pay a premium. But I am willing to bet that if chevy came out with a corvette that looked pretty similar and had some fancy sting ray name or something like that on it there would be the same generation willing to pay an equal premium. What im trying to say is that they are paying for the name and looks of one car that has 0 competition in terms of brining back childhood memories. If there was a corvette that went down the same path as the mustang by "going back to its roots" I think the premiums on gt500's would drop by quite a bit. My .02?

Who said otherwise?  You people seem to think that I am arguing that the GT500 outperforms a Vette and that's why it's outselling it.  I never said any such thing.  The GT500 is brutal fast on a dragstrip and performs well on the twistys.  However, the stock Vette is faster and the Z06 destroys it.  That's not the point.  The whole premise of this thread is that Raza couldn't believe GT500s are selling for more then Z06s.  I am simply explaining why.  More people are lusting after the GT500 then the Vette. Pure and Simple.

[GoCougs]

12.25 in MM&FF.?

Slipping the clutch and powershifting will yield better numbers on most any MT-equipped car.

Such a time is an outlier because the major auto mags don't abuse their test cars to such a degree.

The LS3 Corvette would probably be into the 11s if driven in such a manner.

[SVT666]

Slipping the clutch and powershifting will yield better numbers on most any MT-equipped car.

Such a time is an outlier because the major auto mags don't abuse their test cars to such a degree.

The LS3 Corvette would probably be into the 11s if driven in such a manner.

Yup.? MM&FF got the Z51 LS2 Vette into the high 11.9s when they pitted it against the Stage 3 Roush.? I don't care what the mainstream mags get for times, when people who take their cars to the track on a regular basis will slip the clutch and powershift.? That's how fast the car can go.? MM&FF also got the F-Body cars into the 12s when the mainstream mags were getting them into the low 13s....but that's not what this thread is about.  It's about the high demand for the GT500 that is causing the dealer markups to reach stratospheric heights.?

[GoCougs]

Yup.? MM&FF got the Z51 LS2 Vette into the high 11.9s when they pitted it against the Stage 3 Roush.? I don't care what the mainstream mags get for times, when people who take their cars to the track on a regular basis will slip the clutch and powershift.? That's how fast the car can go.? MM&FF also got the F-Body cars into the 12s when the mainstream mags were getting them into the low 13s....but that's not what this thread is about.? It's about the high demand for the GT500 that is causing the dealer markups to reach stratospheric heights.?

And my counter to the demand assertion is that the people paying the markups are absolutely absurd, in that there are better performing vehicles for equivalent or less money; the base Corvette being the most poignant example.

[SVT666]

And my counter to the demand assertion is that the people paying the markups are absolutely absurd, in that there are better performing vehicles for equivalent or less money; the base Corvette being the most poignant example.

It obviously doesn't stir the emotions like the GT500 does.  The Mustang, especially with the retro looks, demands attention and people lust after it.  Better performing has never equalled better sales.

[VetteZ06]

It obviously doesn't stir the emotions like the GT500 does.

Not all people in the market for a Corvette are jumping ship to the GT500, which is why your "GT500 sells more than the Corvette so it's a more appealing car" argument isn't a sound one.

Give me some proof other than your opinion and I might believe you.

[SVT666]

Not all people in the market for a Corvette are jumping ship to the GT500, which is why your "GT500 sells more than the Corvette so it's a more appealing car" argument isn't a sound one.

It's not?? When GT500s are selling for more then a Z06 and there is a waiting list for them, I think that proves that the GT500 is a more appealing car.

EDIT:? I guarantee that if GM puts the very first Blue Devil/Z07/Sting Ray or whatever it's gonna be called on the auction block, it will not go for anywhere near the prices the first GT500 went for.? BTW, it went for $600,000.

[TBR]

To the select group of people willing to spend $70k on a American car the GT500 might be more appealing, but the Z06 is the better car (and, fyi, was getting similar markups when it was first released as well).

[SVT666]

To the select group of people willing to spend $70k on a American car the GT500 might be more appealing, but the Z06 is the better car (and, fyi, was getting similar markups when it was first released as well).

Those markups didn't last very long.

I never argued that it wasn't a better car.? For shit's sake, does anyone read threads before they post????

[Eye of the Tiger]

The GT500 only stirs my emotions because it is just so totally and completely overrated. Even if the GT500 only cost $40k, I'd spend the extra money for a base-model Corvette. Not everyone wants a lowered truck with too much horsepower, an excessively retro fa?ade, and a bunch of tacked-on scoops, stripes and badges. The Mustang is what it is, and it obviously does good in that respect, but it's no Corvette.

[TBR]

Yes, for shit's sake (how does that make sense), I did. Basically, the GT500 is a baby boomer's car, to nostalgia driven rich white guys it might be appealing but to less biased enthusiasts it is an overweight pig. It looks the part and sounds the part, but it sure as hell doesn't perform the part. In the straightline it is slower compared to the Vette and in turns it just down right fails.

I wanted to like the GT500, I really did (it looks great, I even had a pic of it in my sig for a while). But, the previous Cobra was a better performer and 10 grand cheaper.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Anyone who would pay 100K for a mustang needs his head checked.

There is only one Ford vehicle worth buying IMO, and its worth every penny.

The best that the big three have to offer....

[VetteZ06]

It's not?? When GT500s are selling for more then a Z06 and there is a waiting list for them, I think that proves that the GT500 is a more appealing car.

I can see your point, but it's difficult to say that when buyers of one car may not necessarily be interested in the other. I do recall the Z06 having some pretty hefty premiums when it came out, but I'd have to look to make sure.

EDIT:? I guarantee that if GM puts the very first Blue Devil/Z07/Sting Ray or whatever it's gonna be called on the auction block, it will not go for anywhere near the prices the first GT500 went for.? BTW, it went for $600,000.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was case. The GT500 was recreated very much as an homage to its predecessor of several decades ago, and even if the super Corvette is called Sting Ray, it won't be nearly as loyal to the design of the original Sting Ray as the GT500 is to its forebear. The Shelby already had an immensely loyal following, so when Ford created a modernized "copy" of it, it was guaranateed to have an audience right off the bat. The new Corvette won't have the obviously retro styling, and chances are it won't even have a name that's been used with previous great Corvettes. It's basically a brand new model - of course it's not going to go for $600,000.

[Soup DeVille]

Slipping the clutch and powershifting will yield better numbers on most any MT-equipped car.

Such a time is an outlier because the major auto mags don't abuse their test cars to such a degree.

People who regularly drag their cars competively do though, and honestly, if you're not one of those people, what do those numbers mean to you anyways?

[TheIntrepid]

Anyone who would pay 100K for a mustang needs his head checked.

There is only one Ford vehicle worth buying IMO, and its worth every penny.

The best that the big three have to offer....

[JYODER240]

It's not?? When GT500s are selling for more then a Z06 and there is a waiting list for them, I think that proves that the GT500 is a more appealing car.

Just because GT500 has a longer waiting list doesn't mean the majority of people find it more appealing. The GT500 even with a markup still usually costs less than a Z06. There could as be less GT500s produced causing a shortage which would cause long waiting lists and higher asking prices.

[SVT666]

Just because GT500 has a longer waiting list doesn't mean the majority of people find it more appealing. The GT500 even with a markup still usually costs less than a Z06. There could as be less GT500s produced causing a shortage which would cause long waiting lists and higher asking prices.

To the people with $70,000 to spend on a performance car, most are choosing the GT500 over a Z06, so yes that means it is appealing to more people in that demographic.  I don't know what is so hard to understand.

[TBR]

Let's bring Porsche into the mix, would you say that the 911 is a more appealing car than the GT500 or the Z06? Well it absolutely blows pretty much anything in that range out of the water as far as sales are concerned (crap, there are probably quite a few 70k Caymans and Boxsters out there too).

[SVT666]

Yes, for shit's sake (how does that make sense), I did. Basically, the GT500 is a baby boomer's car, to nostalgia driven rich white guys it might be appealing but to less biased enthusiasts it is an overweight pig. It looks the part and sounds the part, but it sure as hell doesn't perform the part. In the straightline it is slower compared to the Vette and in turns it just down right fails.

Which is why is finished just 0.1 seconds behind the 911 Turbo around VIR right?

I wanted to like the GT500, I really did (it looks great, I even had a pic of it in my sig for a while). But, the previous Cobra was a better performer and 10 grand cheaper.

You're wrong.  The previous Cobra does NOT outperform the current GT500 in any category.  The GT500 out corners, out accelerates, out handles, and just plain out does the previous Cobra in every way possible.

[SVT666]

Let's bring Porsche into the mix, would you say that the 911 is a more appealing car than the GT500 or the Z06? Well it absolutely blows pretty much anything in that range out of the water as far as sales are concerned (crap, there are probably quite a few 70k Caymans and Boxsters out there too).

Look.  I'm not arguing this because I'm a Mustang fanboy or anything (in fact I have said that between the two I would take a Z06), I'm arguing this because you're trying to make this a "Z06 is a better car" argument, when that's not what it's about.  Pure and simply, more people are putitng down equal money on GT500s then they are on a Z06.  Period. 

[TBR]

Which means nothing because the general population is stupid. Sales numbers and demand meaning nothing!

For some reason or another the Turbo put up a pathetic performance, it was far slower than the less powerful, RWD (but better tired with a more track oriented suspension) GT3. I would've expected cars that shared the basics to be closer, whether it was the drivers, the particular car, or just something about the car's design, I don't know.

Acceleration, at least 0-60, is equal between the GT500 and Cobra, which is #1 since these are straight line cars we're talking about here.

[Soup DeVille]

To the people with $70,000 to spend on a performance car, most are choosing the GT500 over a Z06, so yes that means it is appealing to more people in that demographic.? I don't know what is so hard to understand.

Because for many buyers, the appeal of the GT500 is not purely because units a performance car. Its also a status item precisely because of its name, its looks and its comparative rarity.

Honestly, the performance level of either of these cars is beyond what 99% of drivers could ever hope to exploit with any level of finesse. I know its beyond what I could claim to be comfortable with, and I'm no slouch in that department. Therefore, the fact that one is a better performer than the other means nothing to most buyers except for cruise-in bragging rights.

The fact though that the GT500 comes with a legendary name, looks slicker than snot, can be had in convertible form, and can carry a couple of extra people does make a difference.

[VetteZ06]

To the people with $70,000 to spend on a performance car, most are choosing the GT500 over a Z06, so yes that means it is appealing to more people in that demographic.

Can anybody actually prove that every GT500 is going for $70,000? I'd like to see it.

[JYODER240]

To the people with $70,000 to spend on a performance car, most are choosing the GT500 over a Z06, so yes that means it is appealing to more people in that demographic.? I don't know what is so hard to understand.

You're assuming the average selling price of the GT500 and Z06 are the same. Assuming the average going price for a GT500 is 20k above sticker it's still coming it atleast 10k below MSRP of a Z06. I wouldn't be surprised if most Z06s are going above MSRP as well. We don't have enough information about sales, prices, production numbers, etc to say which car most people find more appealing.

[Soup DeVille]

Can anybody actually prove that every GT500 is going for $70,000? I'd like to see it.

Oh, wait: excuse me while I dig up the sales receipts for every GT500 sold to date. I had them right here a minute ago.

[VetteZ06]

Oh, wait: excuse me while I dig up the sales receipts for every GT500 sold to date. I had them right here a minute ago.

My point exactly.

[Soup DeVille]

My point exactly.

On the other hand, it would be foolish to assume that a car with a 20 grand mark-up actually gets tha extra 20 grand. There's this thing called haggling that salespeople like to do.

However, they're also not known to put ridiculous off-putting prices on cars that have no chance of getting that price. Chances are, if they'll sticker it at 70, its fetching something close to that on the open market.

Making mark-ups like that is in the salesperson's best short term interest, but the long term effect of lost sales, lower resale values and creating long-term resentment among potential buyers is probably not in Ford's best long-term interest.

[565]

To the people with $70,000 to spend on a performance car, most are choosing the GT500 over a Z06, so yes that means it is appealing to more people in that demographic.? I don't know what is so hard to understand.

Well that's an easy question to answer.  What are the sales numbers of the GT500 vs the Z06?  Whichever sells more is the car that people with 70K are more eager to buy.

[Raza]

I couldn't imagine spending 70 grand on it.  For 70 grand you could mod up a regular GT and still have enough money for a GTI.