This weekend our traffic enforcement

[rohan]

This weekend our guys who were given OT to work traffic cars had a banner weekend~ 300+ tickets including 71 driving on suspended/revoked license- 32 OWI's- and 248 speeding of 15 or more over the posted limits but reduced to 10 over or less.  And our traffic cars aren't done there's one more shift of 8 guys coming in.  That sounds like a lot but if you think aobut it we have 8 shifts wher ewe had 4-8 guys only working traffic. 

If we use the number of 4 per shift that only works out to about 9 1/2 per officer per shift- and we are right on target with most fo the othe r departments in our area.  Who says wer're raking in the money from tickets?

[dazzleman]

Are those statistics for tickets statewide?  I find it hard to believe that a local department is handing out that many tickets.

To be honest, the number of officers working on a statewide traffic enforcement initiative sounds low to me. 

[Lazerous]

This weekend our guys who were given OT to work traffic cars had a banner weekend~ 300+ tickets including 71 driving on suspended/revoked license- 32 OWI's- and 248 speeding of 15 or more over the posted limits but reduced to 10 over or less.  And our traffic cars aren't done there's one more shift of 8 guys coming in.  That sounds like a lot but if you think aobut it we have 8 shifts wher ewe had 4-8 guys only working traffic. 

If we use the number of 4 per shift that only works out to about 9 1/2 per officer per shift- and we are right on target with most fo the othe r departments in our area.  Who says wer're raking in the money from tickets?

Meet your quota yet? Or are you waiting and praying for that last shift to complete it? 

I'm just joking, good job  on cracking down on speeders who weren't slick/smart enough to be able to slip away from all you Officer Bob's. Good luck catching me though, 105mph on a 45 just a couple days ago. If I got caught in your area going that fast would you have lowered it to a "10 over or less"? 

Seriously though, just messing around with you. I'm sure you guys managed to stop a lot accidents from happening, and more than likely stopped a good amount of people from speeding, even if for a couple months.

[Champ]

How many for impropper lane use, failure to merge or inattentive driving?

[etypeJohn]

This weekend our guys who were given OT to work traffic cars had a banner weekend~ 300+ tickets including 71 driving on suspended/revoked license- 32 OWI's- and 248 speeding of 15 or more over the posted limits but reduced to 10 over or less.? And our traffic cars aren't done there's one more shift of 8 guys coming in.? That sounds like a lot but if you think aobut it we have 8 shifts wher ewe had 4-8 guys only working traffic.?

If we use the number of 4 per shift that only works out to about 9 1/2 per officer per shift- and we are right on target with most fo the othe r departments in our area.? Who says wer're raking in the money from tickets?

So I would guess the driving on a suspended or revoked license and probably of the OWI's originally resulted from a speeding stop.  Correct?

Revenue?  I don't know the average fine where you are, In houston, its probably about $150, so 300 tickets are worth $45,000.  Not a bad haul.

[hounddog]

Are those statistics for tickets statewide?? I find it hard to believe that a local department is handing out that many tickets.

To be honest, the number of officers working on a statewide traffic enforcement initiative sounds low to me.?

Dazzle, re-read what he wrote.? It spells it out pretty well.? That many citations is not at all uncommon when you put out that many traffic cars.? Admittedly, that is a high number of traffic enforcement cars for one department.? Randy told me that they were trying something new, they were using a proactive approach to drunk driving and speed related accidents.? He said that they put out press releases for two weeks prior about their greatly increased patrols.? ?He told me they received alot of positive input from their citizens about it.? He said they would pair up with another car and work a specific area for about an hour and then move on.? Very good PR for them in the neighborhoods and communities they worked.

[hounddog]

So I would guess the driving on a suspended or revoked license and probably of the OWI's originally resulted from a speeding stop.? Correct?

Revenue?? I don't know the average fine where you are, In houston, its probably about $150, so 300 tickets are worth $45,000.? Not a bad haul.

In Michigan local police departments only receive 1/3 of the fines, but nothing from the remaining court costs and administrative fees that make up the vast bulk of the citation.? ?Sheriff departments, where Randy works, receive 1/2 if they write the ticket. Those speeding tickets fines are only about $30, so his department only receives about $15 per ticket.?

Now on the other hand, open intoxicants, MIP, OWI, and driving while license suspended (DWLS) are misdemeanors so they are much higher.? Perhaps in the area of $75-200 depending on the severity of what they did.?

In the end, it cost his department FAR more to put that many deputies on the road than they will ever recoup from revenues generated by tickets.  Especially when you consider Sunday and Monday are usually union contracted holiday days, and are generally paid at 3 or 3 1/2 times normal pay. 

[Soup DeVille]

This weekend our guys who were given OT to work traffic cars had a banner weekend~ 300+ tickets including 71 driving on suspended/revoked license- 32 OWI's- and 248 speeding of 15 or more over the posted limits but reduced to 10 over or less.? And our traffic cars aren't done there's one more shift of 8 guys coming in.? That sounds like a lot but if you think aobut it we have 8 shifts wher ewe had 4-8 guys only working traffic.?

If we use the number of 4 per shift that only works out to about 9 1/2 per officer per shift- and we are right on target with most fo the othe r departments in our area.? Who says wer're raking in the money from tickets?

You did, y'all got overtime just to write tickets, didn't you?

[the nameless one]

Thats hardly "raking in the money".

[Soup DeVille]

Thats hardly "raking in the money".

"3 or 3 1/2 times normal pay" doesn't sound too shabby to me.

[the nameless one]

"3 or 3 1/2 times normal pay" doesn't sound too shabby to me.

They don't pay that around here. Til a few years ago, holidays were just another straight pay day.

[Soup DeVille]

They don't pay that around here. Til a few years ago, holidays were just another straight pay day.

So, what do they pay? Holiday pay plus time and a half over forty? Or 2 1/2 times instead of 3 times your normal pay.

Somebody better call his union rep!

[the nameless one]

Now its time and  a half for holidays and over 40. Still hardly "raking it in". Union reps do no good if the employer wont negotiate at contract time.

[Soup DeVille]

Now its time and? a half for holidays and over 40. Still hardly "raking it in". Union reps do no good if the employer wont negotiate at contract time.

Since the claim was about Rohan's department, and not yours, what you get paid doesn't relate to how much he's raking in at all, does it?

[James Young]

Lazerous writes:

I'm sure you guys managed to stop a lot accidents from happening. . .

I doubt that.  It certainly flies in the face of their own and independent data that have never been able to establish a correlation between the level or focus of enforcement and the Big Three key safety measures. 

. . .and more than likely stopped a good amount of people from speeding, even if for a couple months.

Another term for that is impeding the flow of traffic.  Thanks, guys, that?s a real public service.  Thankfully, most traffic stops result in a slow down for a few minutes.

Why is it so difficult for everybody to understand the concept that we don?t want to slow everybody down but to keep them moving?  This erroneous belief that slower equals safer has as much validity as the Easter Bunny, yet it continues to plague us.

Champ writes:

How many for impropper lane use, failure to merge or inattentive driving?

This question is still open. 

hounddog writes:

In the end, it cost his department FAR more to put that many deputies on the road than they will ever recoup from revenues generated by tickets.

C?mon, do the math.  They collected about $45,000 for somebody.

They had 8 shifts of 8 men for 8 hours per shift; that?s 512 manhours.  At $40,000 per year, that?s $19.23 per hour and police pay in these very fora for that area has been alleged to be in the $30,000 range.   512 hours times $19.23 is $9,846; even at double-time, that?s only $19,692 plus benefits, which don?t increase directly with rate of pay. 


But wait!   The kicker is that his department probably didn?t even have to pay for the OT because the feds offer huge amounts for campaigns exactly such as this.

Rohan, was there a federal subsidy?  What agency are we talking about here?

However, the most egregious aspect of this is the institutional behavior that precipitates actions that foster growth of the institution all the while ignoring evidence that the original mission has been abandoned.  A high-visibility campaign is for PR purposes to elevate public opinion of the institution rather than the completion of that mission. 

Go ahead and keep fooling yourselves; make yourself think that you really did something worthwhile.  You didn?t, of course, but then the price is being paid by somebody else.

[Soup DeVille]

Rohan is an officer with the Michigan State Police- which is one of the most professional departments in the nation, and in all my years of living here I have never seen a State trooper engage in some of the more flagrant revenue-grabbing schemes that I have seen other departments in the area do.

[Pancor]

Go ahead and keep fooling yourselves; make yourself think that you really did something worthwhile.  You didn?t, of course, but then the price is being paid by somebody else.

       Traffic cops...

[James Young]

?The Michigan Office of Highway Safety Planning (OHSP) is coordinating the enforcement effort by providing federal traffic safety funds for overtime enforcement to nearly 230 agencies to boost patrols in selected areas and by funding paid advertising to ensure widespread awarenessof the crackdown. Officers from more than 500 agencies across the state have agreed to participate in the campaign.?

Michigan Office of Highway Safety Planning

Hmmm.  Seems it's not costing the agency much of anything.

widespread awareness means that they just want the public to think that they're actually doing something.

[sparkplug]

They ought to pay in 1? donuts per hour as well.

[Champ]

How many for impropper lane use, failure to merge or inattentive driving?

These would be the tickets I'd write if I was an officer I think.? Morally I'd have a hard time stopping somebody for speeding.  (well more writing a ticket for it.  Speeding is a useful tool to have a legitamate excuse for pulling someone over to check BAC or some other assumption.  And if everything is fine otherwise let them go.)

However watching somebody text on their cellphone is a scary thing.? You get a whole new view of the road from a motorcycle - I think everyone should have to ride for a bit once in their lives.? Makes you a better driver for sure.

[Raza]

If I were a traffic cop, I'd challenge people to races, pull them over, and write them fake tickets with smiley faces on them. 

[Raza]

These would be the tickets I'd write if I was an officer I think.  Morally I'd have a hard time stopping somebody for speeding.  (well more writing a ticket for it.  Speeding is a useful tool to have a legitamate excuse for pulling someone over to check BAC or some other assumption.  And if everything is fine otherwise let them go.)

However watching somebody text on their cellphone is a scary thing.  You get a whole new view of the road from a motorcycle - I think everyone should have to ride for a bit once in their lives.  Makes you a better driver for sure.

I saw someone having a whole text conversation while driving.  I kindly waved him off the road, and made him swallow his cell phone, then I beat him to death with his glow in the dark shift knob.

[the nameless one]

These would be the tickets I'd write if I was an officer I think.? Morally I'd have a hard time stopping somebody for speeding.? (well more writing a ticket for it.? Speeding is a useful tool to have a legitamate excuse for pulling someone over to check BAC or some other assumption.? And if everything is fine otherwise let them go.)

However watching somebody text on their cellphone is a scary thing.? You get a whole new view of the road from a motorcycle - I think everyone should have to ride for a bit once in their lives.? Makes you a better driver for sure.

Good luck proving those, it'll be one persons word against the other without video and everyone will be taking their tickets to court.

[Soup DeVille]

Good luck proving those, it'll be one persons word against the other without video and everyone will be taking their tickets to court.

Oh bullshit. When it comes down to an officer's word against a defendant's I wonder who'll be believed?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Good luck proving those, it'll be one persons word against the other without video and everyone will be taking their tickets to court.

I think any officer would have plenty of proof for someone texting on their cellphone. All they have to do is get a printout from the phone company and match the text message with the time of the traffic stop. Or they could just grab the phone and look at the history. That is very easy to enforce, and it could be the next big revenue generator, taking the place of unnecessary speeding tickets! I wouldn't mind that a bit. 

As for just driving like an idiot in general (impropper lane use, failure to merge or inattentive driving...), that is just as easy to prove as speeding, if not more so. In the end, both rely on the officer's word. Who cares if it offends people and they take it to court? Officer's word wins. The end.

[the nameless one]

Oh bullshit. When it comes down to an officer's word against a defendant's I wonder who'll be believed?

The point is, most people KNOW they were speeding. Regardless of whatever ewxcuse they give at the side of the road, they KNOW they were caught. So they mail in the ticket. No trial. Charge them with "improper lane use" or "improper merging" and everyones going to think they were shafted and they'll fight it.  Way too much hassle to go to trial because some guy disputes how he merged with the flow of traffic. Given how some roads are built, its going to be highly subjective to boot. For something that ISN'T a big concern for most people. How many complaints do you think agencies get that some driver didn't merge quickly enough to suit someone behind them?

[James Young]

Except for those dozen cranks that sit around Tompkins County and complain about evildoers that drive through their neighborhood at 1.75 mph over the posted limit, people just don't bother to call about other drivers actions.? However, impeding and improper merging are two of the most irksome actions out there and enforcement does zippy about it.? ?

[the nameless one]

Get real James: no one complains about drivers 1.75 MPH over the limit. twenty over? sure, and thats a legitimate complaint. Nope, no one  around here complains about "improper merging".

[Eye of the Tiger]

Get real James: no one complains about drivers 1.75 MPH over the limit. twenty over? sure, and thats a legitimate complaint. Nope, no one  around here complains about "improper merging".

Do you really want everybody to call the police everytime they see "improper merging"? Not one single department in the entire country has enough manpower to respond to so many calls. Even if you did respond to a call about "improper merging", WTF are you going to do about it!?
BTW, I'm complaining right now about that stupid lady on a cellphone who was tailgating me in a Prius while I was already doing 10mph over the limit. I'm complaining about it right now. What can anyone do about it now? What could I do about it then? Am I'm supposed to call the police from my cellular while I'm driving?  No. Am I supposed to pull over and call the police every time someone tailgates me or cuts me off? No  I would always be late for everything... in fact, I would probably never get where I was going!

[the nameless one]

The cell phone thing IS illegal in an increasing number of states and that is enforced on a fairly regular basis. Once again, thats something that people KNOW they were doing. You start writing for some vaguye thing like "improper merging" or even "tailgating" in which no accident took place, and you're going to be seeing a lot more trials because thats a matter of perception.