Jaguar Resurrects Daimler Brand

[BMWDave]

Jaguar Resurrects Daimler Brand
Date Posted 06-29-2005


COVENTRY, England ? Daimler, Jaguar's subbrand that has traditionally been reserved for its most exclusive models, will return to the market before the end of 2005.

A long-wheelbase version of the XJ sedan will wear the Daimler (pronounced "DAME-ler") badge, according to Automotive News Europe. It will have a price tag exceeding $180,500, making it Jaguar's most expensive model. Jaguar has not said whether the Daimler name will return to North America.

Jaguar will debut the Daimler sedan at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September, according to Stephen Perrin, Jaguar's global marketing director.

In 1896, Gottlieb Daimler established a U.K. subsidiary that carried his name. The carmaker developed its own luxury limousines used by the British royal family. Jaguar, now a subsidiary of Ford, acquired the rights to the name in 1960. There is no connection now with German automaker DaimlerChrysler.

What this means to you: The nameplate that means ultraluxury to some upscale buyers makes its return on a premium Jaguar. But?won't a lot of people think it's a DaimlerChrysler product?

[R33 GT-R]

A 200k dollar Chrysler, should sell nicely.

[BMWDave]

A 200k dollar Chrysler, should sell nicely.

The whole point is that its NOT a Chrysler....its a totally independent marque.

[TBR]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

[BMWDave]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

I think we can assume that, as Jaguar wouldnt design a whole new engine for one car.  And what an engine that is!  Both Aston V12s produce some of the best sounds I have ever heard in an engine.

[TBR]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

I think we can assume that, as Jaguar wouldnt design a whole new engine for one car.  And what an engine that is!  Both Aston V12s produce some of the best sounds I have ever heard in an engine.

The only concern is that they might think that the supercharged AJ will be good enough.

[BMWDave]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

I think we can assume that, as Jaguar wouldnt design a whole new engine for one car.  And what an engine that is!  Both Aston V12s produce some of the best sounds I have ever heard in an engine.

The only concern is that they might think that the supercharged AJ will be good enough.

Nope, I dont think they would....the XJR is only 90K and it already has that engine...no, Jaguar will give it a more powerful engine....whether it will be a biturbo AJ or an Aston V12 remains to be seen.

[TBR]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

I think we can assume that, as Jaguar wouldnt design a whole new engine for one car.  And what an engine that is!  Both Aston V12s produce some of the best sounds I have ever heard in an engine.

The only concern is that they might think that the supercharged AJ will be good enough.

Nope, I dont think they would....the XJR is only 90K and it already has that engine...no, Jaguar will give it a more powerful engine....whether it will be a biturbo AJ or an Aston V12 remains to be seen.

A biturbo AJ would require too much development, the likely engine choice is the Aston Martin V12. Unless, Aston Martin has decided to produce a new Lagonda in which case that will probably be the only sedan in which the V12 is used for exclusivity's sake.  

[BMWDave]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

I think we can assume that, as Jaguar wouldnt design a whole new engine for one car.  And what an engine that is!  Both Aston V12s produce some of the best sounds I have ever heard in an engine.

The only concern is that they might think that the supercharged AJ will be good enough.

Nope, I dont think they would....the XJR is only 90K and it already has that engine...no, Jaguar will give it a more powerful engine....whether it will be a biturbo AJ or an Aston V12 remains to be seen.

A biturbo AJ would require too much development, the likely engine choice is the Aston Martin V12. Unless, Aston Martin has decided to produce a new Lagonda in which case that will probably be the only sedan in which the V12 is used for exclusivity's sake.

I dont think they will be doing a Lagonda anytime in the near future.

[R33 GT-R]

A 200k dollar Chrysler, should sell nicely.

The whole point is that its NOT a Chrysler....its a totally independent marque.

Well it's basically semantics at that point.

[Submariner]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

No way, jaguar should revive the XJ12 marque, and use the Vanquish's V12 as a powerplant.

[TBR]

This car better be a whole lot different from the XJ if they expect to sell it for $180,000. Hopefully it will get Aston Martin's V12 :).

No way, jaguar should revive the XJ12 marque, and use the Vanquish's V12 as a powerplant.

That is what I've been saying all along, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.  

[Raza]

Hmm...

I don't think that's a great idea.  I'm sure DCX and its lawyers will have something to say about it.  

They should just sell it as a Jaguar...that name has enough pull in the industry.  Or, can we see the return of the 4 door Aston?

[TBR]

I don't think that's a great idea.  I'm sure DCX and its lawyers will have something to say about it.  

No they won't, the Daimler brand has existed for a long time and they never had a problem with it before.

But, I do agree that they would be better off selling it as a Jaguar, particularly in the USA.  

[R33 GT-R]

I don't think that's a great idea.  I'm sure DCX and its lawyers will have something to say about it. 

No they won't, the Daimler brand has existed for a long time and they never had a problem with it before.

But, I do agree that they would be better off selling it as a Jaguar, particularly in the USA.

Right on TBR, Shaguar.

[93JC]

Hmm...

I don't think that's a great idea.  I'm sure DCX and its lawyers will have something to say about it.  

They should just sell it as a Jaguar...that name has enough pull in the industry.

The top Jaguars have been traditionally given the Daimler name in Britain.

Vanden Plas was used here in Daimler's place.

[280Z Turbo]

How snobby are you when the Jaguar brand isn't good enough?

I never understood the point of Maybach either.  

[LostBoy]

How snobby are you when the Jaguar brand isn't good enough?

I never understood the point of Maybach either.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it gives Jaguar (and Mercedes with Maybach) more leniency in how they design/market...

It allows directions that would overwise offend/turn-off the MB/Jaguar faithful, while giving the companies' engineers a palette to try new things that could later be incorporated into the more "mainstream" brand...

Or it could all be for the benjamins...I choose the latter  :P  

[BMWDave]

How snobby are you when the Jaguar brand isn't good enough?

I never understood the point of Maybach either.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it gives Jaguar (and Mercedes with Maybach) more leniency in how they design/market...

It allows directions that would overwise offend/turn-off the MB/Jaguar faithful, while giving the companies' engineers a palette to try new things that could later be incorporated into the more "mainstream" brand...

Or it could all be for the benjamins...I choose the latter  :P

I think you have a point there, but what exactly do you mean by "offending". just to clarify. :)

[giant_mtb]

I've been to Coventry. ^_^

[LostBoy]

How snobby are you when the Jaguar brand isn't good enough?

I never understood the point of Maybach either.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it gives Jaguar (and Mercedes with Maybach) more leniency in how they design/market...

It allows directions that would overwise offend/turn-off the MB/Jaguar faithful, while giving the companies' engineers a palette to try new things that could later be incorporated into the more "mainstream" brand...

Or it could all be for the benjamins...I choose the latter  :P

I think you have a point there, but what exactly do you mean by "offending". just to clarify. :)

IMHO, a lot of customers buy a Jag/MB for the Jaguar-ness/Mecedes-ness and would abhor a change in the formula.  These repeat buyers would be "offended" that MB/Jag would change tradition...kind of like the outcry over some of Saab's new products, but to a much snobbier degree.  Traditionalists is a good word for those I thought might be offended.  Though offended may be too strong a word... :)  

[BMWDave]

How snobby are you when the Jaguar brand isn't good enough?

I never understood the point of Maybach either.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it gives Jaguar (and Mercedes with Maybach) more leniency in how they design/market...

It allows directions that would overwise offend/turn-off the MB/Jaguar faithful, while giving the companies' engineers a palette to try new things that could later be incorporated into the more "mainstream" brand...

Or it could all be for the benjamins...I choose the latter  :P

I think you have a point there, but what exactly do you mean by "offending". just to clarify. :)

IMHO, a lot of customers buy a Jag/MB for the Jaguar-ness/Mecedes-ness and would abhor a change in the formula.  These repeat buyers would be "offended" that MB/Jag would change tradition...kind of like the outcry over some of Saab's new products, but to a much snobbier degree.  Traditionalists is a good word for those I thought might be offended.  Though offended may be too strong a word... :)

I understand that, but what I meant was how might Mercedes making a Maybach offend regular MB consumers?  

Although I can see the point of Jaguar making a ultra luxury saloon named Daimler since Jaguar has always been about sportiness, and a huge sedan might offend purists.

[LostBoy]

How snobby are you when the Jaguar brand isn't good enough?

I never understood the point of Maybach either.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it gives Jaguar (and Mercedes with Maybach) more leniency in how they design/market...

It allows directions that would overwise offend/turn-off the MB/Jaguar faithful, while giving the companies' engineers a palette to try new things that could later be incorporated into the more "mainstream" brand...

Or it could all be for the benjamins...I choose the latter  :P

I think you have a point there, but what exactly do you mean by "offending". just to clarify. :)

IMHO, a lot of customers buy a Jag/MB for the Jaguar-ness/Mecedes-ness and would abhor a change in the formula.  These repeat buyers would be "offended" that MB/Jag would change tradition...kind of like the outcry over some of Saab's new products, but to a much snobbier degree.  Traditionalists is a good word for those I thought might be offended.  Though offended may be too strong a word... :)

I understand that, but what I meant was how might Mercedes making a Maybach offend regular MB consumers?  

Although I can see the point of Jaguar making a ultra luxury saloon named Daimler since Jaguar has always been about sportiness, and a huge sedan might offend purists.

Don't really have a good answer for that, Dave...you've successfully called me out!  

Seriously though...Mercedes styling has a very cohesive pattern, aside from the CLS.  So perhaps the difference in packaging (to the price point) and style that doesn't reflect MB's styling heritage would put off MB traditionalists.   So I guess my point was more about styling and packaging rather than any distinct engineering difference between Maybach and MB...I would this shoot over to you:  Could you see a Maybach with MB badging?  Would Mercedes want to out-do what has traditionally been their flagship (the S-klasse)?  IMHO, they took an easier route by simply creating something beyond Mercedes rather than to change the dynamic of their line-up...

And I think, as well, Jaguar is doing this with their line-up (with the XJ remaining the flagship sedan)...

[Raza]

Guys, this whole tradition crap is bullshit and you know it.  The enthusiasts care about tradition--you, the other guys on this board, and me especially.  The buyers don't give a shit.  That's why you're seeing Bentley Continental GTs popping up like the whack-a-moles and Murcielagos being heralded as the best Lamborghini.  As long as the car is luxurious and is sold at a good price (or a ridiculous price) the buyers will want it.  Only a few people care about heritage and tradition, and the car companies stopped selling to us a while ago.

And you're all talking as if the S Type and X Type didn't already pollute the Jaguar brand...were those cars about tradition?

[TBR]

Guys, this whole tradition crap is bullshit and you know it.  The enthusiasts care about tradition--you, the other guys on this board, and me especially.  The buyers don't give a shit.  That's why you're seeing Bentley Continental GTs popping up like the whack-a-moles and Murcielagos being heralded as the best Lamborghini.  As long as the car is luxurious and is sold at a good price (or a ridiculous price) the buyers will want it.  Only a few people care about heritage and tradition, and the car companies stopped selling to us a while ago.

And you're all talking as if the S Type and X Type didn't already pollute the Jaguar brand...were those cars about tradition?

Just like to note that the S-type did have a lot of traditional styling (in fact, you could even call it retro), even if the mechanicals weren't all Jag.  

[Raza]

Guys, this whole tradition crap is bullshit and you know it.  The enthusiasts care about tradition--you, the other guys on this board, and me especially.  The buyers don't give a shit.  That's why you're seeing Bentley Continental GTs popping up like the whack-a-moles and Murcielagos being heralded as the best Lamborghini.  As long as the car is luxurious and is sold at a good price (or a ridiculous price) the buyers will want it.  Only a few people care about heritage and tradition, and the car companies stopped selling to us a while ago.

And you're all talking as if the S Type and X Type didn't already pollute the Jaguar brand...were those cars about tradition?

Just like to note that the S-type did have a lot of traditional styling (in fact, you could even call it retro), even if the mechanicals weren't all Jag.

It did, that's true.  The X Type definitely did more damage than the S Type.  Of course, though, C/D did choose the LS over the S Type in a comparison test.  That doesn't bode well for Jag, does it?

[TBR]

Guys, this whole tradition crap is bullshit and you know it.  The enthusiasts care about tradition--you, the other guys on this board, and me especially.  The buyers don't give a shit.  That's why you're seeing Bentley Continental GTs popping up like the whack-a-moles and Murcielagos being heralded as the best Lamborghini.  As long as the car is luxurious and is sold at a good price (or a ridiculous price) the buyers will want it.  Only a few people care about heritage and tradition, and the car companies stopped selling to us a while ago.

And you're all talking as if the S Type and X Type didn't already pollute the Jaguar brand...were those cars about tradition?

Just like to note that the S-type did have a lot of traditional styling (in fact, you could even call it retro), even if the mechanicals weren't all Jag.

It did, that's true.  The X Type definitely did more damage than the S Type.  Of course, though, C/D did choose the LS over the S Type in a comparison test.  That doesn't bode well for Jag, does it?

Just because of price.