Tahoe Hybrid Gas MIleage

[SJ_GTI]

Link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/26/gm-hybrid-suvs-get-21-mpg-city-22-mpg-highway/2#comments

GM hybrid SUVs get 21 mpg city/22 mpg highway

Posted Sep 26th 2007 7:56PM by John Neff
Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, SUVs, Green, Chevrolet, GM, GMC

Finally! For months and months we've been hearing that the upcoming two-mode hybrid SUVs from General Motors will have better fuel economy by this or that percent. Today we learned from Automotive News exactly how much better they'll be. The 2WD version of the Tahoe and Yukon Hybrids will achieve 21 mpg in the city and 22 mpg on the highway, while the 4WD version will get 20 mpg in the city and 20 mpg on the highway. For comparison's sake, the 2008 Chevy Tahoe 2WD gets 14 mpg city and 20 mpg highway from its 5.3L V8.

We had a chance to drive GM's pair of two-mode hybrids recently, and we're pretty amazed at just how normal they felt. Since they are true hybrids, both will pull away from stop on pure electric power, which is a bit eery at first. Mash the throttle, however, and you'll be extremely surprised at how fast these hybrids accelerate. Their two-mode hybrid system is mated to a 6.0L V8, which, in combination with an assist from the electric motor, can really move these SUVs down the road. Together they produce 332 HP and 367 ft-lbs. of torque, which also allows for a 6,200 lbs. towing capacity!

So with comparable powertrains (2WD to 2WD) its a 50% improvement in city mileage and a 10% improvement in highway mileage.

Not bad. I think a diesel could match (maybe beat) the highway mileage, but that city mileage is what is really imprissive.

[SJ_GTI]

Here's an interesting comparison.

Let's take three people who switch to hybrids. Assume they all drive 15k miles a year.


One person switches from a Corolla to a Prius. In the gas version that person had an average combined mileage of 31 MPG. In the Prius that person will get 46. In the Corolla that person was using 484 gallons of gas per year, and in the Prius they will use 326 gallons of gas. This is a 158 gallon saving. Not bad.

The next person switches from a regular Camry to a Camry Hyrbid. In the regular model they got 25 MPG, in the Hybrid they got 34 MPG. IN the regular version they used 600 gallons of gas, but in the hybrid version they will only use 441 gallons. That's a savings of 159 gallons. Pretty much on par with the dedicated hybrid Prius.

The last person switches from a Tahoe 5.3L to a Hybrid Tahoe. In the regular tahoe that person got 16 MPG. IN the Hyrbid, we can assume 21.5 MPG (combined 21/22 MPG). In the regular model they would have used 938 gallons of gas each year. In the Hybrid, they will use 698 gallons of gas. That's a savings of 240 gallons.

It kind of shows that the hyrbid system really gets the most bang for the buck in larger vehicles. I would wager that if Toyota made a Prius without the hybrid system, but with a slightly larger engine (maybe the engine from the Yaris), it would get better mileage than the Corolla anyway. The Prius really benefits from having a lot of dedicated engineering to save fuel costs (weird shape, super skinny wheels, CVT, tiny engine), not just the hybrid system.

[ifcar]

It kind of shows that the hyrbid system really gets the most bang for the buck in larger vehicles. I would wager that if Toyota made a Prius without the hybrid system, but with a slightly larger engine (maybe the engine from the Yaris), it would get better mileage than the Corolla anyway. The Prius really benefits from having a lot of dedicated engineering to save fuel costs (weird shape, super skinny wheels, CVT, tiny engine), not just the hybrid system.

Most likely, yes.

I remember reading an EPA study that estimated that the Honda Insight would have still gotten 76% of its gas mileage with a conventional gasoline engine, which would have been EPA ratings of 46 city / 52 highway, which is still far better than any other gas-powered car.

However, the difference is that once you're already in a small car, there's no other way to get the same level of fuel economy improvement a hybrid offers without special engine tech (hybrid or diesel), while you can save even more over a gas Tahoe just by getting something else, like a minivan or a car-based SUV.

[GoCougs]

As with all hybrids, we'll see if the ratings hold (or not) in the real world. I'd bet not. Even if they do hold, the value proposition simply isn't there.

People interested in saving money on fuel shouldn't be buying $40k+ vehicles. One would be much better served financially by simply buying a slighly used SUV for a 25+% discount.

[SJ_GTI]

Most likely, yes.

I remember reading an EPA study that estimated that the Honda Insight would have still gotten 76% of its gas mileage with a conventional gasoline engine, which would have been EPA ratings of 46 city / 52 highway, which is still far better than any other gas-powered car.

However, the difference is that once you're already in a small car, there's no other way to get the same level of fuel economy improvement a hybrid offers without special engine tech (hybrid or diesel), while you can save even more over a gas Tahoe just by getting something else, like a minivan or a car-based SUV.

Most minivans and car-based SUV's won't offer the space/towing of a Tahoe though...plus some people just irrationally prefer SUV's.

In any event, I don't think the Hybrid is to convince people in cars to get an SUV, but rather a way to get SUV buyers into more fuel efficient vehicles. That's why I tried to keep the above comparisons reasonable. If a person wants a Camry but wants to save fuel, they are far more likely to go with a Camry Hybrid then a Prius. While the Prius does technically have enough space to compete with mid sizers, its more of a compact car from most buyers POV.

[SJ_GTI]

As with all hybrids, we'll see if the ratings hold (or not) in the real world. I'd bet not. Even if they do hold, the value proposition simply isn't there.

People interested in saving money on fuel shouldn't be buying $40k+ vehicles. One would be much better served financially by simply buying a slighly used SUV for a 25+% discount.

I agree, but I think Toyota has proved that customers aren't really looking to save money with Hybrids. If they were, the Tahoe would be a much better proposition.

And, anyone can buy a slightly used vehicle to save money, not just people buying hybrids. Heck, if you want to save the most money, you buy a really, really used car.

[ifcar]

Most minivans and car-based SUV's won't offer the space/towing of a Tahoe though...plus some people just irrationally prefer SUV's.

In any event, I don't think the Hybrid is to convince people in cars to get an SUV, but rather a way to get SUV buyers into more fuel efficient vehicles. That's why I tried to keep the above comparisons reasonable. If a person wants a Camry but wants to save fuel, they are far more likely to go with a Camry Hybrid then a Prius. While the Prius does technically have enough space to compete with mid sizers, its more of a compact car from most buyers POV.

All minivans have much more space than the Tahoe. So do all other full-size SUVs, and many midsize SUVs.

And the combination of towing with a lot of city driving doesn't seem (at least to me) to represent too many people.

But yes, I do believe that the most sales will come from people who were already buying the Tahoe but decided on better gas mileage.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I wonder if the GM system is as dependant on the driver for fuel economy has the HSD system by toyota. Driving technique alone can make a prius vary from mid 30's to mid 50's.

I don't want to label or group people, but around here alot of the people who drive SUV's really take off and stop fast(well everyone in any type of vehicle does). Anyway i wonder if a typical person that is given this hybrid would even see a 3-4MPG improvement over a similar gas model.

[TheIntrepid]

MIf a person wants a Camry but wants to save fuel, they are far more likely to go with a Camry Hybrid then a Prius. While the Prius does technically have enough space to compete with mid sizers, its more of a compact car from most buyers POV.

Damn right

[Rupert]

With the Tahoe vs. Hybrid Tahoe, in that comparison and assuming the price of gas is conservatively $2.50/gal, that's $600/yr of savings. What's the price difference between hybrid and non-hybrid versions of the Tahoe?

[SagRacer]

The crazy thing to think about is that this full-size SUV now gets about the same city milage as some compact and most midsize cars.

[ifcar]

The crazy thing to think about is that this full-size SUV now gets about the same city milage as some compact and most midsize cars.

Running on electricity will do that.

[SJ_GTI]

With the Tahoe vs. Hybrid Tahoe, in that comparison and assuming the price of gas is conservatively $2.50/gal, that's $600/yr of savings. What's the price difference between hybrid and non-hybrid versions of the Tahoe?

As GoCougs suspect, I doubt the savings would be enough to offset the cost difference in just a few years. I am guessing at least a ~5k price differential given similar equipment. I expect ~10k over the base base price of the regular Tahoe.

[ifcar]

As GoCougs suspect, I doubt the savings would be enough to offset the cost difference in just a few years. I am guessing at least a ~5k price differential given similar equipment. I expect ~10k over the base base price of the regular Tahoe.

But probably quite a bit less against a comparably-equipped model.

[HurricaneSteve]

As GoCougs suspect, I doubt the savings would be enough to offset the cost difference in just a few years. I am guessing at least a ~5k price differential given similar equipment. I expect ~10k over the base base price of the regular Tahoe.

The cost of replacing the batteries will eliminate any potential cost savings.

[Raza]

The cost of replacing the batteries will eliminate any potential cost savings.

You just have to dump the car before the batteries die. 

[the Teuton]

While the Tahoe is a nice SUV, I'd rather have a wagon.  I really don't see the point of something like this without using it to go camping, fishing, or off-roading.

[J86]

While the Tahoe is a nice SUV, I'd rather have a wagon.  I really don't see the point of something like this without using it to go camping, fishing, or off-roading.

Towing!

Chevy Suburbans are some of my favorite vehicles....best regatta car EVER

[the Teuton]

That's what I meant for fishing.  Come on, is dock fishing really that fun for anyone?

[Raza]

While the Tahoe is a nice SUV, I'd rather have a wagon.  I really don't see the point of something like this without using it to go camping, fishing, or off-roading.

Can't you keep your boat at a dock, and then put it back there?  Like a boat garage?

[SJ_GTI]

That's what I meant for fishing.  Come on, is dock fishing really that fun for anyone?

It can be. I was fishing up in the mountains in Quebec in the spring, and we could catch some decent sized pike off the dock (even though they weren't in season).

[the Teuton]

Can't you keep your boat at a dock, and then put it back there?  Like a boat garage?

At most places I've seen, unless you have a rented garage or house on the property, it's BYOB.  That is, bring your own boat.

[Raza]

I tend to prefer dry land anyway. 

[sportyaccordy]

Damn, it gets the same combined gas mileage as my car

[J86]

That's what I meant for fishing.  Come on, is dock fishing really that fun for anyone?

Not once you've been on the water!

[J86]

Can't you keep your boat at a dock, and then put it back there?  Like a boat garage?

Depends....paying to dock a boat is expensive in many places, however.

For example, where I work, it's $125/foot/month.  So a little 21 foot walkaround would cost over $2600 bucks for the month....then there's the additional expenses of bottom paint, washing, etc.

[Minpin]

Depends....paying to dock a boat is expensive in many places, however.

For example, where I work, it's $125/foot/month.  So a little 21 foot walkaround would cost over $2600 bucks for the month....then there's the additional expenses of bottom paint, washing, etc.

Holy fuck that is expensive! We pay something like 55/foot/month! Wow!

[J86]

Holy fuck that is expensive! We pay something like 55/foot/month! Wow!

Welcome to Newport!

We cater to a rather high end segment of the market.

[S204STi]

That's what I meant for fishing.  Come on, is dock fishing really that fun for anyone?

Fly fishing on a remote river, or not at all.

As for the topic, I am a believer in the fact that we CAN make a very lost lasting battery, but I somehow have my doubts.  Same way we could make a long-lasting light bulb, but who would want to put themselves out of business?

So my point is, even if the battery lasts 15 years, nobody is going to want to own one when it goes.  I would never buy a used hybrid.

[FoMoJo]

On the subject of bigger hybrids realize better fuel savings, GM's diesel/electric hybrid buses are showing up in some North American cities.