driving impressions: Honda Element, Volvo C30

[Vinsanity]

Sorry I forgot to take pics, so you're just going to have to use your imagination. Or the internet.

Anyways, first I drove the Element. This car easily has my favorite interior this side of a Mercedes CLS. Or maybe an Infiniti M. In any case, it has an awesomely roomy interior. The car I drove was the top-of-the-line SC model, so it has a lot of fancy, trendy interior accents like copper design stitching on the seats and what-have-you. It's definitely a place I wouldn't mind sitting in traffic through. Easily the best part was seats that fold flat to create a bed-like surface. Sexual innuendos aside, this feature is invaluable even for taking naps during my lunch break
As to the driving experience...meh. It does corner flatter than you might expect, and The steering is tight and precise (getting back into the Camry felt like the steering wheel wasn't connected to anything). But it feels like ride quality was compromised for the sake of better handling, so it rides pretty rough. Not S2000-rough, but rougher than one would expect in a commuter. But that I don't mind as much as its lack of power. Again, it's not Camry-slow, but if I'm dropping $23k on a new car (I could get a new Volvo or Maxima for the same price), I don't want to sacrifice power. Heck, I'd gladly pay $25k for the same car with a V6.
So yeah, it's definitely a very cool car, but I'm not sure if it's one I want to live with.

Next up was the Volvo C30. This car looks bigger to me in person than in pictures. It's almost like a small Audi A3-type wagon without the rear doors. But I think it looks cooler. And like the S40, it also feels bigger on the inside than one might expect. Volvo likes to brag that the car is "highly customizable", but I could've sworn that they were going to have it available in red or blue seats (not currently on the options list). I would have all but placed an order on the spot if I could get one in dark grey with red seats. But what we have here is a standard-fare S40 interior, which is to say, decent. Waterfall center stack, comfortable whiplash-protection seats, etc, etc.
As for the drive...this car is quick! it feels at least as quick as the TL, and handles like it doesn't know it's a Volvo. Turbo lag is a non-issue in everyday driving, and it pulls very nicely in the midrange rpm's. But the one complaint I have about its drive is the clutch. I felt like a total n00b when I was trying to get a feel for the clutch take-up, stalling the car twice in the process. The clutch grabs hard, and releases at the very bottom part of the travel, thus making it susceptible to stalling when you first drive the car. Like I did. Twice.
But this car is very enjoyable to drive, otherwise. It handles extremely well without being punishing, and overall it feels like a capable car on a very solid chassis. I'd like to buy one just to give my friends a drive to change their preconceived notions about Volvos

[Raza]

I'm unconvinced that the C30 is more viable than the GTI, but I do want to try it out.  Too bad I can't afford it.

[MX793]

I went to the Volvo website to price one out to see if it might be a contender for my next vehicle (even though I'd rather not have another FWD) and I was rather shocked by their pricing scheme. 

First off, they hit you with a $475 "customization fee" if you select any options.  This includes paint color.  With the Version 1.0, there are only 3 colors you can choose from that you don't have to pay extra for (all others are $300, plus the customization fee).  I believe those colors are red, white and black.  On the Version 2.0, the only color that doesn't cost extra is bright red (white and black, which are free of charge on the Version 1.0 cost extra on V2.0).  The fee is a one time thing, you don't pay a fee for each option, but if the only option you get is a different paint color, the fee more than doubles the cost of the options.

Secondly, cruise control is an extra cost option, even on the higher end Version 2.0 trim.  Are they nuts?  This is a $25K "premium" compact class vehicle and they don't have cruise as standard?  Sub $20K economy cars have cruise standard these days.  Unacceptable.

[Vinsanity]

yeah I found out the same thing this morning about the pricing scheme. Mercedes and BMW also charge extra for most other colors, but what really bothers me with Volvo is not having cruise control standard, and the one-time "customization charge" (it's actually $300) that you have to pay when:

you choose different wheels
you choose one of the colors that you're already paying extra for
you choose a different interior
and worst of all, when you order cruise control

[MX793]

yeah I found out the same thing this morning about the pricing scheme. Mercedes and BMW also charge extra for most other colors, but what really bothers me with Volvo is not having cruise control standard, and the one-time "customization charge" (it's actually $300) that you have to pay when:

you choose different wheels
you choose one of the colors that you're already paying extra for
you choose a different interior
and worst of all, when you order cruise control

I must have switched the numbers up.  Now that I think about it, I think the fee was $300 and the colors cost $475.

Seeing some colors cost extra isn't that much of a shock to me.  It's not that uncommon to see metallic paints cost extra.  Regular, non-metallic colors costing extra is unusual, as is seeing a car where there is only one no-cost color option.  And why is it that the colors that are no-cost on the V1.0 cost extra for the V2.0?  That makes no sense.

[CALL_911]

Can you buy a beater for like $2k, and hold out for a 1er?

[MX793]

Can you buy a beater for like $2k, and hold out for a 1er?

Why would I buy a $2K beater when I can just keep driving my car?

[CALL_911]

Why would I buy a $2K beater when I can just keep driving my car?

Not you, Vinsanity.

[Vinsanity]

Can you buy a beater for like $2k, and hold out for a 1er?

1. I'm not THAT enthused about the 1-series to wait until 1Q08 to buy one. There are plenty of good cars out there that I don't have to wait for, that it doesn't make sense for me to wait. I'd rather just get a certified E90 and be done with it.

2. I've had my car for 3 months before it got wrecked. That's about the same amount of time between now and the release of the 1-series. I don't want to get into a wreck in a $2k beater car.

[CALL_911]

1. I'm not THAT enthused about the 1-series to wait until 1Q08 to buy one. There are plenty of good cars out there that I don't have to wait for, that it doesn't make sense for me to wait. I'd rather just get a certified E90 and be done with it.

2. I've had my car for 3 months before it got wrecked. That's about the same amount of time between now and the release of the 1-series. I don't want to get into a wreck in a $2k beater car.

Certified E90 it is. 

[Morris Minor]

I think Honda would have a worthy niche vehicle if they took the Element, did a little "ruggedization," took out some windows and marketed it in a commercial version. Is there anything out there smaller than the Sprinter for businesses that need light-duty vans?

[ifcar]

I think Honda would have a worthy niche vehicle if they took the Element, did a little "ruggedization," took out some windows and marketed it in a commercial version. Is there anything out there smaller than the Sprinter for businesses that need light-duty vans?

A minivan?

[Vinsanity]

now that the thread's been bumped, I might as well point out that I'm probably not getting an Element. I live up in the hills, the Santa Ana winds are back with avengeance, and they make for some brutal killer crosswinds on the freeway "Murder Winds" indeed

[Raza]

Have you tried the GTI yet? 

I like the C30, but it's too expensive, I think, for being a less powerful five cylinder Mazda3 (I do believe the C30 is a C1 platform car).  When you can get the Mazdaspeed3 for less money, you're paying a lot for the name Volvo and the styling.  I could be swayed into paying that, were it not for the GTI.

[Morris Minor]

A minivan?

True. Chrysler released the new Dodge Grand Caravan Cargo a couple of months ago, which looks pretty weak. Still not quite in Element territory.

[Vinsanity]

Have you tried the GTI yet? 

I like the C30, but it's too expensive, I think, for being a less powerful five cylinder Mazda3 (I do believe the C30 is a C1 platform car).  When you can get the Mazdaspeed3 for less money, you're paying a lot for the name Volvo and the styling.  I could be swayed into paying that, were it not for the GTI.

The GTI isn't really much cheaper than the C30 (both start at just under $24k), and if I'm going to join the VW axis of evil, I'd rather just get a 2006 A4 for about the same price. Same engine, less depreciation.

[ifcar]

True. Chrysler released the new Dodge Grand Caravan Cargo a couple of months ago, which looks pretty weak. Still not quite in Element territory.

Based on what? Even the smallest minivan is much, much more spacious than an Element.

And if you didn't want the Dodge, you could always suffer the inconvenience of having windows.

[MX793]

The GTI isn't really much cheaper than the C30 (both start at just under $24k), and if I'm going to join the VW axis of evil, I'd rather just get a 2006 A4 for about the same price. Same engine, less depreciation.

They have the exact same starting price, but the VW is better equipped than the Volvo.  Add some major options to the Volvo to get it with the same equipment level that the VW already comes with (cruise, trip computer, xenons, fogs, premium stereo) and the Volvo is suddenly $2700 more expensive.

[Morris Minor]

Based on what? Even the smallest minivan is much, much more spacious than an Element.

And if you didn't want the Dodge, you could always suffer the inconvenience of having windows.

Well, the Cargo is just a minimum effort, a regular Caravan with slightly heftier springs & a rubber mat where the rear seats used to be. It's both lame and bigger than the Element, which gives Honda a niche opportunity IMHO.

[ifcar]

Or you could get a Chevrolet Uplander or Kia Sedona passenger van and take the seats out, have a lot more space, and pay less. Of course, it would be "lame," but it carries things better and at a lower cost.

There definitely is a niche, of course, one that Chevy has tried to exploit with the HHR cargo version, but it would only be used as a fashion statement, not a true cargo vehicle.

[FordSVT]

I really don't like the Element, never have. Better than the Scion bread-wagon, but not by much.

The Volvo is a nice enough car on it's own and I really do like the styling, especially the tricked-out 2.0, but I'd take a MPS3 for less money or even the VW GTi everyone's mentioning first. The C30 is simply a cheap way to get into a "premium" Euro badge, not a reason to buy a car, IMO.

[SVT666]

I really don't like the Element, never have. Better than the Scion bread-wagon, but not by much.

The Volvo is a nice enough car on it's own and I really do like the styling, especially the tricked-out 2.0, but I'd take a MPS3 for less money or even the VW GTi everyone's mentioning first. The C30 is simply a cheap way to get into a "premium" Euro badge, not a reason to buy a car, IMO.

I like the C30, but for the money there are a lot more cars I would take first.

[Morris Minor]

Or you could get a Chevrolet Uplander or Kia Sedona passenger van and take the seats out, have a lot more space, and pay less. Of course, it would be "lame," but it carries things better and at a lower cost.

There definitely is a niche, of course, one that Chevy has tried to exploit with the HHR cargo version, but it would only be used as a fashion statement, not a true cargo vehicle.

That's my point, a minivan minus the rear seats is not serious contender for those looking for a small commercial van. It can be done.

[ifcar]

What's your point, that a cargo van needs to be a fashion statement? I don't see anything in what I said that supports any other point.

[Morris Minor]

What's your point, that a cargo van needs to be a fashion statement? I don't see anything in what I said that supports any other point.

No, nothing to do fashion. Just that it is possible to build small, economical, light duty vehicles that are in fact cargo vans.  A heavy minivan with a pushrod six-cylinder engine is not playing in that territory.

[ifcar]

Pushrod is relevant how?

[SVT666]

Pushrod is relevant how?

Who knows?  Pushrod = Shit apparently.  Minivans cannot carry the loads that commercial vans can usually.  I believe the new Grand Caravan in commercial trim comes with heavier duty suspension.

[Morris Minor]

Pushrod is relevant how?

Because a six cylinder pushrod engine in a minivan further differentiates it from a small, economical, light duty cargo van, that I guess, would have a diesel or gasoline four. It's not terribly difficult to conceive.

[ifcar]

Who knows?  Pushrod = Shit apparently.  Minivans cannot carry the loads that commercial vans can usually.  I believe the new Grand Caravan in commercial trim comes with heavier duty suspension.

A further contrast with the Element, of course, which can carry a total payload of 675 lbs.

A stock, standard passenger van is no cargo van, but it's still the most useful type of vehicle for the money. The Element is actually more expensive than several minivans, and beats the gas mileage of those awful low-tech V6 vans by a grand total of 3 mpg.

[Morris Minor]

A further contrast with the Element, of course, which can carry a total payload of 675 lbs.

A stock, standard passenger van is no cargo van, but it's still the most useful type of vehicle for the money. The Element is actually more expensive than several minivans, and beats the gas mileage of those awful low-tech V6 vans by a grand total of 3 mpg.

Well, I guess Honda would have the wit to make sure it would be competitive in terms of price & economy, a decent value proposition.

Pushrod V6s have their place by the way, don't knock them too hard. They have a fiercely-loyal following.