Hybrid Durango- WHY?

[MX793]

I just did a search on Exxon.com of all stations within 300 miles of Denver (the largest radius it allows). It came out to 42 stations. Then I limited the search to stations with diesel. Down to 28.

Feel free to experiment with other brands/locations.

54 stations within 100 miles of Phoenix, 28 with diesel (just over 50%)

I checked my region and a 100 mile radius around it (which basically covers all of upstate NY).  286 stations, 140 with diesel (less than 50%).  Tighten the search to be a bit more local (25 miles) and I get 15 stations, 10 with diesel, which lines up with the 2/3 I estimated based on casual observation.

[Tave]

And you're wrong for saying that you've never seen a gas station in America that doesn't sell diesel, so me posting a pic of on that doesn't sell diesel would prove you wrong.

You need to learn more about rhetoric and debate. There's no way you, not knowing or having spent time with me, can prove that I haven't seen a diesel-less gas station. It's simply not possible.

[Raghavan]

You need to learn more about rhetoric and debate. There's no way you, not knowing or having spent time with me, can prove that I haven't seen a diesel-less gas station. It's simply not possible.

So how am I wrong for saying that the reason I wouldn't get a diesel is because no stations near me sell it?
Am I missing something here?

[Tave]

So diesel is neither at every pump nor is it completely absent from a given area. Sounds like the most someone would have to do is simply drive to the next gas station if the one they're at doesn't carry it.

Damn! That stuff is more rare than diamonds!

[Raghavan]

So diesel is neither at every pump nor is it completely absent from a given area. Sounds like the most someone would have to do is simply drive to the next gas station if the one they're at doesn't carry it.

Damn! That stuff is more rare than diamonds!

Exxon says that the nearest diesel station is 47.6 miles away.
I'm not driving all the way over there to get it.
And because of California's stricter emissions laws we don't get lots of diesels here anyways. That's why we didn't get the E320 CDI.

[Tave]

So how am I wrong for saying that the reason I wouldn't get a diesel is because no stations near me sell it?
Am I missing something here?

I never said you were wrong. But the availability of diesel fuel isn't what's preventing Americans from buying them. That simply isn't a problem.

[rohan]

Within 300 miles of Detroit there are 1966 stations with 994 of them having diesel or about 50% of the stations..  Fimding diesel anywhere in the midwest wouldn't be any problem at all.  That's just Exxon-Mobile. 

[Tave]

Exxon says that the nearest diesel station is 47.6 miles away.
I'm not driving all the way over there to get it.

That's just the nearest Exxon station.

[565]

I gotta ask this question- WTF is so great about hybrids?  What's so wrong with diesels?  they do the same thing the hybrid does- and they're also cheeper to build so why not just build more clean burning McDonalds grease diesels?  A Durango hybrid?  Who the hell is going to buy that?

Because when I think Hybrid I think "wow Hybrid, that's like some crazy space aged electric + gas high tech gizmo thingy!!"

When I think of diesel I think of this.

[ifcar]

I never said you were wrong. But the availability of diesel fuel isn't what's preventing Americans from buying them. That simply isn't a problem.

In some areas, like, say, both coasts, it's not so easy to come by. Particularly if, say, you're running low. Or if you're traveling in an unfamiliar area, and don't know when you'll find the next station that sells diesel.

It's definitely not just perception.

[rohan]

When I think of a diesel I think of this

[TheIntrepid]

I think of TDI when I think diesel.

[rohan]

I think of TDI when I think diesel.

TDI? 

That damned intrepid?

[TheIntrepid]

TDI? 

That damned intrepid?

The Intrepid isn't a diesel.

I meant Volkswagen's TDI engines.

[rohan]

The Intrepid isn't a diesel.

I meant Volkswagen's TDI engines.

I was talking about you- homo!   

[TheIntrepid]

I was talking about you- homo!   

Pig.

[rohan]

Pig.

[rohan]

In some areas, like, say, both coasts, it's not so easy to come by. Particularly if, say, you're running low. Or if you're traveling in an unfamiliar area, and don't know when you'll find the next station that sells diesel.

It's definitely not just perception.

Looking at the Exxon site- unless I did it wrong- there are diesel stores all over the esast coast on that map.   

But if they're going to make a Durango hybrid- how will it be any better than the current one that's geting on the highway what the Tahoe is?  Who's gonna wanna pay the extra 4000 or 7000 fro technology that's not going to be recovered maybe over the life of a car - if you take the average owner only keeps his car or truck 3 or 4 years?

[ifcar]

"All over" in some senses. If you know where they are, you'll get by. But they're not "all over" in the sense that you can count on one being where you are when you need gas. Most gas stations you find will not be serving it.

[Raza]

I think that's only been done with VW diesels, but I may be wrong.

Old Benz diesels are the most common conversions I've seen.

[S204STi]

I gotta ask this question- WTF is so great about hybrids?  What's so wrong with diesels?  they do the same thing the hybrid does- and they're also cheeper to build so why not just build more clean burning McDonalds grease diesels?  A Durango hybrid?  Who the hell is going to buy that?

Why?  Because they shared some of the development costs with GM and BMW for the system being used in the new GMT900 Tahoe.

[Raghavan]

I never said you were wrong. But the availability of diesel fuel isn't what's preventing Americans from buying them. That simply isn't a problem.

If anyone's wrong, it's you, for saying

"The only thing I don't like about diesels is that most gas stations don't sell it. That would be the only reason I wouldn't get a diesel."

Now I am very confused?

[Tave]

Now I am very confused?

Notice the clause begins with "if," and I was commenting on your assertion that "most gas stations don't sell it." I was never questioning whether or not the ones immediately around your house do.

[Raghavan]

Notice the clause begins with "if," and I was commenting on your assertion that "most gas stations don't sell it." I was never questioning whether or not the ones immediately around your house do.

Well, that's what I was talking about. I didn't mean that gas stations all over the country don't sell diesel, just the ones around my area don't.

[Tave]

"All over" in some senses. If you know where they are, you'll get by. But they're not "all over" in the sense that you can count on one being where you are when you need gas. Most gas stations you find will not be serving it.

I still don't agree with that. It implies very few serve it, when in actual fact, the major cities we've been discussing are about 1/2 and 1/2.

On the East Coast, it might be a little less, but there is still a significant amount of stations. Around the DC area, 1467 out of 3246 stations sell diesel. So while your "most" may be technically correct, it's not the most accurate statement because diesel can't be as hard to find as you imply. If 50% of the stations serve it and the one you're at doesn't, chances are all you have to do is drive down the street to the next station.

[Tave]

Is there any way to get sales statistics for models by region? I'd be very interested to learn where all those E320 Bluetecs are being delivered to. My guess is the East Coast.

[Raghavan]

Is there any way to get sales statistics for models by region? I'd be very interested to learn where all those E320 Bluetecs are being delivered to. My guess is the East Coast.

Not in California, that's for sure.

[ifcar]

I still don't agree with that. It implies very few serve it, when in actual fact, the major cities we've been discussing are about 1/2 and 1/2.

On the East Coast, it might be a little less, but there is still a significant amount of stations. Around the DC area, 1467 out of 3246 stations sell diesel. So while your "most" may be technically correct, it's not the most accurate statement because diesel can't be as hard to find as you imply. If 50% of the stations serve it and the one you're at doesn't, chances are all you have to do is drive down the street to the next station.

That's not 49.99% or anything, that is significantly under half. And I'd bet that if you looked at whatever source you used, you'd see that the stations with diesel were found much more commonly in the outermost/rural suburbs of the DC area. Where most people in the area generally don't have a reason to go.

If I were to buy a diesel car, I'd have to go out of my way to get gas, and I wouldn't be able to gas up at the best-price stations near me. That's a hindrance. One of my neighbors who used to own diesel S-Classes switched to regular gas just before they stopped selling the diesel because of a lack of availability. Someone else I know ended a Jetta TDI lease early and got a 1.8T because of the hassle of getting gas.

I'm not saying it's unfeasible. It can be done. But say 55% of the gas stations in your area went out of business overnight and most of the rest switched to one pump, and tell me that you wouldn't both lose convenience and pay more. That's the equivalent of buying a diesel car in the DC area.

[Tave]

That's not 49.99% or anything, that is significantly under half. And I'd bet that if you looked at whatever source you used, you'd see that the stations with diesel were found much more commonly in the outermost/rural suburbs of the DC area. Where most people in the area generally don't have a reason to go.

It's 45% exactly, which in my book is pretty close to half. I used the Exxon search engine you mentioned, and it showed diesel stations all over the city: in and outside the Beltway.


I guess I've never really noticed: does the price of diesel vary from station to station, or is it more inelastic?

[Tave]

On a somewhat related note, I know people that don't have any stations within a 40 mile radius of their house.

When I was in Pheonix, there were at least three gas stations within a 1/2 a mile from my apartment, at least 5 within 1 mile, and at least 8 within 2 miles. Granted, according to the Exxon site, Pheonix has a higher percentage of diesel carriers (though not by much) than DC, and this isn't a very scientific study as we're only looking at Exxon stations, but I think there's a point here. Even if only one of those Pheonix stations carried diesel, and I had a diesel vehicle, it wouldn't have been a big deal. I can understand how it could be, in some areas, but it seems the exception rather than the rule.

Once again, I'd be interested to learn how many Merc and VW diesels are sold on the East Coast compared to the Midwest.