The Crown Vicky is dead

[the Teuton]

Lest we forget about the Mercury Capri roadster?

[ChrisV]

Lest we forget about the Mercury Capri roadster?

That was imported from Australia, but yeah, another example of a car unique to Mercury in the US (was it available in Europe or elsewhere as a Ford?)

[USA_Idol]

When I say lately, you have to remember that MY Mercury is a '60s model, and Mercury had already been around for 30 years at that point. To me, anything newer than the mid '60s is a late model car.

But cars like the FWD Cougar are more than a simple rebadge of the Contour, it was a rebody of the Contour, which is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Much like my Comet is a rebody of the Falcon (of course, the Mustang was a similar rebody of the Falcon), with a different wheelbase and different sheetmetal all around.

The FWD Cougar was actually just a Mercury-badged version of the Ford Cougar sold in Europe.  It was also built on the Mondeo/Contour/Mystique chassis.  So I'm not sure how "exclusive" it was to Mercury.

[USA_Idol]

That was imported from Australia, but yeah, another example of a car unique to Mercury in the US (was it available in Europe or elsewhere as a Ford?)

It was sold as the Ford Capri elsewhere, so it wasn't unique to Mercury.  It was based on the 1986-1989 Mazda 323 chassis, BTW.

[the Teuton]

But in America, they were exclusive.  That's like saying the Dodge Intrepid really wasn't a Dodge because they don't have that brand in Canuckistan.

[CALL_911]

They don't? Then what is it, a Chrysler Ram?

[the Teuton]

They don't? Then what is it, a Chrysler Ram?

Wait...Good point.  What do they have in Canada?

[CALL_911]

They do have Dodge in Canada
http://dodge.ca/en/

I don't know why it was a Chrysler Intrepid, then.

[Raghavan]

They do have Dodge in Canada
http://dodge.ca/en/

I don't know why it was a Chrysler Intrepid, then.

Trep was BS'ing again?

[Soup DeVille]

Mercury have executives?

I thought Mercury was just a Ford with a different badge and grille.

There are like 1000 or more various "Vice Presidents of such and such" inside Ford, and the divisions all have their own heads as well.

[GoCougs]

That doesn't make sense. If it weren't profitable, they wouldn't have kept around as long as they have.

Profit was viable when the car was relevant, but FoMoCo rode the profit margins into the ground year after year to the point that the fleet-specific market it served was not worth a new Crown Vic/Gran Marquis.

[CALL_911]

Trep was BS'ing again?

No, it really was a Chrysler Intrepid. I just don't know why.

[ifcar]

Going back even thirty years (1977), I can't remember a single Mercury that wasn't simply a rebadge (or a mild rework of the profile) of a US or Euro Ford model.

Nitpicking, I know.

[ifcar]

Profit was viable when the car was relevant, but FoMoCo rode the profit margins into the ground year after year to the point that the fleet-specific market it served was not worth a new Crown Vic/Gran Marquis.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it would be profitable to redesign it, just that it is still profitable to produce it with no associated development costs for a surprisingly large market.

[USA_Idol]

Nitpicking, I know.

IIRC, the Villager was a mish-mash of Maxima and Taurus wagon parts for the chassis.  So it did have some relation to another Ford, if only slightly.

[USA_Idol]

No, it really was a Chrysler Intrepid. I just don't know why.

Didn't they do the same thing with the "Chrysler Neon?"   

[Colin]

Didn't they do the same thing with the "Chrysler Neon?"  

Yes, and in Europe we have the Chrysler Voyager.

I was in Spain last week, and see that the latest Sebring is badged as the Chrysler 200 over there.... presumably in the hope that some of the kudos and desirability (?) of the 300C will rub off on it little, and ugly brother?

[ChrisV]

The FWD Cougar was actually just a Mercury-badged version of the Ford Cougar sold in Europe.  It was also built on the Mondeo/Contour/Mystique chassis.  So I'm not sure how "exclusive" it was to Mercury.

First off, it was the Mercury first then exported to Europe as a Ford. Second, it was EXACTLY what I was talking about: A complete rebody of a Ford chassis, not a simple rebadge. I don't see how this is such a hard conversation to follow.

[Laconian]

IIRC, the Villager was a mish-mash of Maxima and Taurus wagon parts for the chassis.  So it did have some relation to another Ford, if only slightly.

No, wasn't the Villager a rebadged Nissan Quest?

[The Pirate]

No, wasn't the Villager a rebadged Nissan Quest?

That's correct.  It even had a 3.3L V6, similar to the VG in the 2nd gen Pathfinder, though it was retuned for minivan duty (a bit more hp, and less torque IIRC).

[USA_Idol]

First off, it was the Mercury first then exported to Europe as a Ford. Second, it was EXACTLY what I was talking about: A complete rebody of a Ford chassis, not a simple rebadge. I don't see how this is such a hard conversation to follow.

From what I remember (and I could be wrong), the Ford Cougar debuted first in Europe (1998) and a year later (1999) the Mercury version was brought to the US, virtually identical to the Ford except for badging.

No, wasn't the Villager a rebadged Nissan Quest?

Same van, and both used the rear suspension (IIRC) from the Taurus wagon.

That's correct.  It even had a 3.3L V6, similar to the VG in the 2nd gen Pathfinder, though it was retuned for minivan duty (a bit more hp, and less torque IIRC).

The original Quest/Villager had the Maxima's 3.0L V-6.  The 3.3L came in the second-generation model (which probably eliminated any Ford suspension components).

[nickdrinkwater]

I think the Cougar was designed in here in Europe, but I'm not completely sure.

[The Pirate]

From what I remember (and I could be wrong), the Ford Cougar debuted first in Europe (1998) and a year later (1999) the Mercury version was brought to the US, virtually identical to the Ford except for badging.

Same van, and both used the rear suspension (IIRC) from the Taurus wagon.

The original Quest/Villager had the Maxima's 3.0L V-6.  The 3.3L came in the second-generation model (which probably eliminated any Ford suspension components).

Yeah, it appears you were correct.  I wiki'd it quickly.  Interestingly, the VG was modified to become a non-interference design in that application, as Ford didn't want the risk of valve damage.

[ChrisV]

The Cougar was launched in the UK as an American model, but it was an American design, and it was made in the US and initially exported to the UK and Europe, just like the Probe that preceeded it. Its styling was announced on the Mercury MC2 show car and also shared a bit with the GT90 show car.

[TheIntrepid]

The Cougar was launched in the UK as an American model, but it was an American design, and it was made in the US and initially exported to the UK and Europe, just like the Probe that preceeded it. Its styling was announced on the Mercury MC2 show car and also shared a bit with the GT90 show car.

I see.

[USA_Idol]

The Cougar was launched in the UK as an American model, but it was an American design, and it was made in the US and initially exported to the UK and Europe, just like the Probe that preceeded it. Its styling was announced on the Mercury MC2 show car and also shared a bit with the GT90 show car.

I thought the whole "New Edge" design theme was developed in Europe and then transferred to the US by importing select Euro models (Focus, Cougar) that had it?  Well, whatever the case, the Cougar was a clone of a Ford product...or vice versa...and wasn't exclusive to the Mercury line unless you're purposely excluding non-US products.  If we're excluding non-US models, then the Mercury line...recently...has had "exclusives" like the Cougar, Capri and the short-lived Merkur line.  And none of those cars did particularly well for Mercury, IIRC.

[93JC]

No, it really was a Chrysler Intrepid. I just don't know why.

Chrysler Canada's strategy at the time was to make Chrysler the 'car' brand, Dodge a 'truck' brand, and Jeep their 'SUV' brand.

For a time the only Dodge 'car' was the Viper.

We don't have Chrysler dealers, Dodge dealers and Jeep dealers: they're all Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep, so it didn't make much sense to have Dodge and Chrysler versions of the same product.

Earlier, before they got rid of Plymouth, there were Chrysler-Plymouth dealers and Chrysler-Dodge dealers, which is why, for instance, the Intrepid was a Chrysler: both sets of dealers received the car. For the same reason we had the Chrysler Dynasty and Chrysler Daytona.

Historically it's also why we had Fargo trucks: same thing as Dodge trucks, but sold at Chrysler-Plymouth dealers.

[ChrisV]

I thought the whole "New Edge" design theme was developed in Europe and then transferred to the US by importing select Euro models (Focus, Cougar) that had it?  Well, whatever the case, the Cougar was a clone of a Ford product...or vice versa...and wasn't exclusive to the Mercury line unless you're purposely excluding non-US products.  If we're excluding non-US models, then the Mercury line...recently...has had "exclusives" like the Cougar, Capri and the short-lived Merkur line.  And none of those cars did particularly well for Mercury, IIRC.

The point was that Mercury has some models that were in fact not just rebadges of other models. If Ford later DID rebadge the Mercury model as a Ford in OTHER markets, that is not germane to the point or the discussion.

And you're right none of those cars did well for Mercury, which traditionally sold upscale versions of Fords, slotted between Ford and Lincoln, pricewise. Exclusive models were not it's MO.

[TheIntrepid]

Trep was BS'ing again?

Yes, I was. My car is evidently a Dodge, I just didn't want you guys to think that I owned an inferior product produced by a brand as unreputable as Dodge, and that Chrysler has much more heritage.



The Intrepid and Neon were branded as Chrysler in Canada. I think some earlier ones (93-95) were branded Dodge and the "Daytona" package had Dodge floormats standard but I swapped them out for all-season rubber ones.

[Raza]

The Neon was branded as a Dodge, Chrysler, and Plymouth in the US!