Attention Mustang Tuners: Game over. Saleen wins.

[sandertheshark]

w0w.  Way to reduce a thread to a shit-slinging contest, guys.

[ArchBishop]

No reduction needed here. The topic was about mustangs,what did you expect?

[sandertheshark]

No reduction needed here. The topic was about mustangs,what did you expect?

I didn't expect this level of stupidity:

I just think a low redline, and a large displacement motor with truck like qualities and revving ablity is boring.

And certainly nothing this childish:

What do you drive again? I'd put money down I'd embarrass its sorry ass in any objective handing measure. Yes, in my "mothers Altima"

[Nethead]

He claims that a 4.0L 210hp can outaccelerate any Altima. I doubt he knows that the latest Altima has the VQ V6 with a 3.5L displacement, 270hp, and a CVT. It could easily outaccelerate that Mustang.

IntrepiDude: Did Leblowski teach you how to read? The Nethead here thinks it's pretty clear which model of Nissan Altima and Ford Focus are under discussion in my postings: the SonDude's '08 Altima 2.5 and  our '03 ZX5 2.0. How'd you miss that?

And then there's this from BusinessWeek:

Most recalled cars 2007
1. VW Beetle 1,002,000
2. Toyota Sequoia 533,124
3. Jeep Liberty 149,605
4. Nissan Altima 140,582
5. Hyundai Tucson 128,300
6. Dodge Nitro, Jeep Wrangler 80,894
7. Suzuki Forenza, Reno 75,697
8. VW Passat, Passat Wagon 58,800
9. Chrysler Sebring, Chrysler 300, Dodge Caliber, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Charger, Dodge Nitro, Jeep Compass, Jeep Liberty, Jeep Commander, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Wrangler 50,665
10. Infiniti G35 Coupe 23,934

[ChrisV]

No reduction needed here. The topic was about mustangs,what did you expect?

No, it's a thread with you in it.

[Nethead]

From www.autoblog.com:

First Drive: 2008 Saleen S302E and H302SC Mustangs
Posted Nov 21st 2007 12:01 PM by Drew Phillips

There might be dozens (even hundreds?) of Mustang variations out there, but when Saleen sends you an invite to drive its new 620-horsepower S302E Extreme Mustang, you take it without thinking twice. You see, they have been working their magic on Ford's pony car for 25 years now, so if anyone knows how to do it right, it's Saleen. Company founder Steve Saleen might no longer be at the helm, but that doesn't mean the company's passion is gone for producing high performance automobiles. In fact, there seems to be a renewed enthusiasm, or what Saleen's General Manager Marques McCammon calls a "reawakening" of the company. Part of this is due to the recent acquisition of ASC (American Specialty Cars), and new key personnel in place including Paul Wilbur as the new President and CEO, as well as Chris Theodore, the father of the Ford GT program, as the new Chief Technology Officer. The two vehicles we drove, the H302 SC and the S302 Extreme, were the first two new vehicles launched under the new leadership. Follow the jump for our driving impressions of these two monster Mustangs.

Arriving at the retired El Toro Marine base for a day of driving, we were met with Saleen's full lineup of vehicles. After a brief introduction to the new models, we headed out for some all-out driving on the abandoned runways. First up was the all-new H302 SC, which is by far one of the prettiest Mustangs ever built. The Heritage body design has more of a mature look than it did on the Grabber Orange Parnelli Jones Mustang, not to mention more power, as well. Using the 302 motor from the PJ with forged pistons (changed slightly to allow for less compression), crankshaft, and connecting rods, Saleen also added its patented twin-screw supercharger for a total of 580 bhp @ 6400 rpm and 525 lb-ft @ 6400 rpm. To put things in perspective, that's more power than the original Saleen S7. In addition to the engine upgrades, the H302 SC also receives a 6-speed transmission, lightweight aluminum flywheel, high performance clutch and a 3.73:1 rear end. In the handling department, the H302 SC gets Saleen's Racecraft suspension alongside a second generation Watts-Link system.

On the coned-off course, the H302 SC was undoubtedly a strong performer, exhibiting the same handling characteristics that we loved in the Parnelli Jones Mustang combined with a significant amount of additional horsepower. The car was smooth and easy to control, offering predictable handling and a chassis that felt up to par with handling the torque. A slight dose of understeer could easily be resolved with the throttle, and any traction lost by the rear tires was predictable and easy to control. Think GT500, except lighter, quicker, more responsive, and no wheel hop or rear end shifting from the live rear axle.

After making several laps in the H302 SC, it was time to switch to the S302E. The Extreme has the standard Saleen look, although with a carbon fiber front lip and rear diffuser. Underneath the hood is the same supercharged 302 ci V8 as the H302 SC, but with CNC ported aluminum cylinder heads good for an additional forty horsepower. More significant upgrades come in the form of 15-inch brakes with 6-piston calipers, lightweight forged aluminum 5-spoke wheels, and most importantly a sticky set of Pirelli P-Zero tires sized at 305x35x20 in the rear. The additional traction provided by the tires helps tremendously in putting the power down, both in a straight line and carving corners. Once hooked, the Extreme held onto the pavement with the exception of a brief chirp between gear shifts. Like the H302 SC, the Extreme could be easily steered using the throttle and provided excellent feedback. The power doesn't overwhelm the brakes, suspension or chassis, which is surprising for a car that was initially supposed to have less than half the horsepower. It's definitely a beast, but very predictable and controllable.

Amazingly, the cars ran all day without a hitch. None of the cars exhibited too much heat soak from the supercharger, and the brakes held up all day despite constant wide-open-throttle acceleration and ABS-inducing braking.

Priced at $74,999 for the H302 SC and $79,999 for the S302E, comparisons will most likely be made with the Corvette Z06 and the Viper SRT10. But most likely Saleen will attract a different type of buyer who wants the convenience of a back seat and prefers the Mustang's styling over the Viper or Vette. Yes, $80k is a hard pill to swallow for a Mustang, but you'd be hard pressed to find another car with 600+ horsepower that can be bought off the showroom floor for less.

In Detail
engine Aluminum V8 w/Saleen Heads, Forged Crankshaft, Forged Crank, Forged Pistons, Performance Cams
position Front Longitudinal
aspiration Supercharger
valvetrain SOHC, 3 Valves per Cyl w/Varibale Camshaft Timing
fuel feed Electronic, Returnless & Sequential Ignition
displacement 5000 cc / 305.1 cu in
power 462.3 kw / 620 bhp @ 6300 rpm
hp per litre 134.64 bhp per litre
bhp/weight 375.08 bhp per weight
torque 813.49 nm / 600 ft lbs @ 4400 rpm
redline 6500
drive wheels RWD
body / frame Unit Steel w/Aluminum Hood
front brakes Vented Discs w/6-Piston Calipers
f brake size 381 mm / 15 in
rear brakes Vented Discs w/Single-Piston Calipers
r brake size 300 mm / 11.8 in
steering Rack & Pinion w/Power Assist
f suspension Reverse L MacPherson Struts w/Stabilizer Bar, Coil Springs, Tube Shocks
r suspension Live Axle w/Stabilizer Bar, Panhard Rod, Coil Springs Tube Shocks
weight 1653 kg / 3645 lbs
wheelbase 2720 mm / 107.1 in
front track 1595 mm / 62.8 in
rear track 1623 mm / 63.9 in
length 4803 mm / 189.1 in
width 1880 mm / 74 in
height 1422 mm / 56 in
transmission 6-Speed Manual
gear ratios 3.34:1, 2.00:1, 1.32:1, 1.00:1, .067:1
final drive 3.55:1
0 - 60 mph 3.9 seconds
0 - 1/4 mile 11.9 seconds

[FordSVT]

Using the 302 motor from the PJ with forged pistons (changed slightly to allow for less compression), crankshaft, and connecting rods, Saleen also added its patented twin-screw supercharger for a total of 580 bhp @ 6400 rpm and 525 lb-ft @ 6400 rpm.

Only 6400 rpm at peak horsepower? Fucking truck engine.

Give me a 200 hp @ 9000 rpm with 130 lb ft of torque inline four any day.

[SVT666]

Only 6400 rpm at peak horsepower? Fucking truck engine.

Give me a 200 hp @ 9000 rpm with 130 lb ft of torque inline four any day.

I hear ya.

[TheIntrepid]

Only 6400 rpm at peak horsepower? Fucking truck engine.

Give me a 200 hp @ 9000 rpm with 130 lb ft of torque inline four any day.

*nods in agreement*

[Raza]

Give me a 200 hp @ 9000 rpm with 130 lb ft of torque inline four any day.

That sounds quite interesting, actually.  Of course, if your car doesn't weigh two tons then it makes it all the more effective.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I definately prefer my four banger with 88hp @ 4400rpm to any V8 with 580 hp @ 6400. V8's are for stupid rednecks with trucks who don't know how to have fun.

[sandertheshark]

"This thing's completely off the scale."

[FordSVT]

That sounds quite interesting, actually.

I've driven a Civic Si. and it's not. More like "annoying".

[JYODER240]

I've driven a Civic Si. and it's not. More like "annoying".

The Rx-8 doesn't make much more power and it's anything but annoying.

[FordSVT]

The character of the rotary makes up for it a bit in my opinion and the fact that it does still have an extra 40 horses and 20 lb ft of torque and about the same amount of weight as a Civic Si helps. Let's say it's less annoying. Both engines are fun at WOT but kind of lacking in traffic or at anything under 75% of maximum rpm. The Civic Si feels like pretty much like a Civic EX around town.

But to be honest, if the RX-8 didn't handle as well as it does, or if it was fwd, or if it didn't have such a nice interior, I wouldn't even think about buying one. As it is, the engine doesn't have enough grunt for me to lust over it like I do other cars and would probably never buy one. 350Z and Mustangs and MPS3s and family sedans with 270 horsepower have simply spoiled me, especially when looking at cars with sporting intentions.

That's not to say the Civic's engine is a bad engine, just not my cup of tea. But at least I've driven one, as opposed to buddy who thinks a 300 hp 4.6 L Mustang drives like a truck.

[ArchBishop]

Give me a VQ Revup, or HR over the V8. It makes similar power, is smoother, and Revs Hard. Though, the HR is a better motor than the Revup, and has a higher redline to boot.

[JYODER240]

Give me a VQ Revup, or HR over the V8. It makes similar power, is smoother, and Revs Hard. Though, the HR is a better motor than the Revup, and has a higher redline to boot.

Debateable, the extra power and twin-intake setup is sweet but it's thrashier and doesn't sound as nice. I might still side with the HR if it could keep the 03-06 hood.

[LonghornTX]

Give me a VQ Revup, or HR over the V8. It makes similar power, is smoother, and Revs Hard. Though, the HR is a better motor than the Revup, and has a higher redline to boot.

I wouldn't say it is smoother, but it is definitely a nice engine.  If it sounded better, I probably would have thought more seriously about buying a 350Z.

[Raza]

I've driven a Civic Si. and it's not. More like "annoying".

Obviously, I disagree

[ArchBishop]

I wouldn't say it is smoother, but it is definitely a nice engine.  If it sounded better, I probably would have thought more seriously about buying a 350Z.

You read Too much C/D, and they seem to be the only ones who have a problem with the HR. Its going to vibrate a tad more than the DE in other cars, but thats because its more sporting "charater"

[TheIntrepid]

You read Too much C/D, and they seem to be the only ones who have a problem with the HR. Its going to vibrate a tad more than the DE in other cars, but thats because its more sporting "charater"

Is that so, "ArchJealous"?

[LonghornTX]

You read Too much C/D, and they seem to be the only ones who have a problem with the HR. Its going to vibrate a tad more than the DE in other cars, but thats because its more sporting "charater"

Have you even driven this car?

I have, extensively (in fact, I delivered some of the first), and the truth is, the engine just doesn't feel or sound very graceful when high up in the tach.  Certainly not annoying,as you said; some may think it adds character.  However, those that are used to smoother revving engines will notice right away.