New C&D comparo BMW 328 vs G35 vs CTS vs C350

[565]

And they finished in that order.

They did address the curious situation that they ranked the CTS behind the G35 in the same issue where the CTS made 10 best but the G35 did not.  They basically said that the automatic CTS they had for the 10 best assessment masked alot of the problems with the drive train apparent in the manual car.

Basically the comments went something like this (trying to recall from memory).

1)BMW 328 - omg we at C&D worship the roundel! Drives better than anything ever made... ever!

2)G35- fast and good value but lacks refinement (basically they didn't like the sound and the vibration at higher revs, and they made alot of random comparisions to deals with the devil  )

3)CTS- needs to lose weight and the shifter and clutch suck.

4)C350- luxury car trying to posing as a sports sedan.


Basically what all the other mags have been reporting.

[Raza]

Why didn't they use the C300 Sport 6 speed?

[93JC]

They basically said that the automatic CTS they had for the 10 best assessment masked alot of the problems with the drive train apparent in the manual car.

That's dumb. If your summary is accurate:

3)CTS- needs to lose weight and the shifter and clutch suck.

'Problems with the drivetrain apparent in the manual car' seem to be limited to... the manual gearbox. Doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the drivetrain.

Oh well, it's Car & Driver, I guess I shouldn't expect it to make too much sense.

[cawimmer430]

4)C350- luxury car trying to posing as a sports sedan.




Luxury car with newly improved sporting capabilities that are good enough to satisfy the kean driver. All it needs is more "powerful" engines for bragging rights...


That's what that ghey statement from C&D should have read. Retards. 

[MX793]

Why didn't they use the C300 Sport 6 speed?

They did.  The C350 doesn't come with a manual.

[MX793]

4)C350- luxury car trying to posing as a sports sedan.




Luxury car with newly improved sporting capabilities that are good enough to satisfy the kean driver. All it needs is more "powerful" engines for bragging rights...


That's what that ghey statement from C&D should have read. Retards. 

They used the C300 6MT, not the 350.  Their complaints were as follows:

-The OEM all-seasons were terrible and provided poor grip (one tester proclaimed "I've never hydroplaned on dry roads before")
-The steering was too light for how "fast" the steering ratio was.
-The suspension was geared more for comfort than the other cars.
-Stability control was too obtrusive and could not be fully disabled
-Shifter feel was sub-par (not surprising from Mercedes)
-Seats provided poor lateral support.

The car posted the worst performance numbers and "in general, resisted our come-ons to go faster".

They were also a bit disappointed with the interior materials.

[sportyaccordy]

Ugh... don't the writers get bored?

[565]

They did.  The C350 doesn't come with a manual.

Whoops.

Yeah my memory sucks.

[565]

That's dumb. If your summary is accurate:

'Problems with the drivetrain apparent in the manual car' seem to be limited to... the manual gearbox. Doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the drivetrain.

Oh well, it's Car & Driver, I guess I shouldn't expect it to make too much sense.

Again I'm trying to recall from memory, but I think C&D mentioned that the automatic made the car seem more powerful and eager than the manual, or something like that.

[TBR]

Basically, the manual was crap, the automatic was excellent, and the rating systems are completely different anyway (comparo: mix of subjective and objective, 10best: subjective only).

[sportyaccordy]

Basically, the manual was crap, the automatic was excellent, and the rating systems are completely different anyway (comparo: mix of subjective and objective, 10best: subjective only).

Can't forget the 'gotta have it' factor, aka the BMW bias

[cawimmer430]

-The OEM all-seasons were terrible and provided poor grip (one tester proclaimed "I've never hydroplaned on dry roads before")
-The steering was too light for how "fast" the steering ratio was.
-The suspension was geared more for comfort than the other cars.
-Stability control was too obtrusive and could not be fully disabled
-Shifter feel was sub-par (not surprising from Mercedes)
-Seats provided poor lateral support.

Looks like MB still "tones down" the steering response for their US-spec models. Pretty gay considering that the new C-Class is supposed to be a sportier car. In Europe we don't have this problem with "light steering feel" for the sport models.

The suspension is geared more for comfort, but at the same time it does a good job if driven sporty. Enough to satisfy most sporty drivers to a high degree I'd wager.

MB manuals are still crap. No surprise here.

They need the sport seats then. Did this car have them?

The interior materials are fine. It's a good quality interior, just looks spartan. If C&D is so into interiors, they should hammer the 3er and possibly the Infiniti...

[MX793]

Looks like MB still "tones down" the steering response for their US-spec models. Pretty gay considering that the new C-Class is supposed to be a sportier car. In Europe we don't have this problem with "light steering feel" for the sport models.

Actually, it's not a lack of response.  The car has a very quick turn-in, but the effort required to turn the wheel is too light, which makes for an awkward feeling.  Generally, quick turn-in should be accompanied by a firmer wheel.

The suspension is geared more for comfort, but at the same time it does a good job if driven sporty. Enough to satisfy most sporty drivers to a high degree I'd wager.

They didn't say it wasn't sporty, it just wasn't on the same level as the others.  To quote the last line of their piece on the Benz:

"It's sporty on an intramural level; too bad the rest of the class plays on varsity."

MB manuals are still crap. No surprise here.

They need the sport seats then. Did this car have them?

In the US, the C300 Sport is only offered with one type of seat.  Mercedes' website calls them "sport seats".  Whether these are the same sport seats as what are offered in Europe I do not know.

The interior materials are fine. It's a good quality interior, just looks spartan. If C&D is so into interiors, they should hammer the 3er and possibly the Infiniti... [/size]

C&D is not the only American magazine I've read that has complained about low-rent, shiny hard plastics in the new C class.  Motortrend also made some comments about the interior not being up to what they'd expect from a Mercedes.

[TheIntrepid]

I can't remember right now, but did they comment on the supposedly shoddy build quality on the C-Class (i.e. open hood)?

[nickdrinkwater]

Wimmer, why do you have to describe things you don't like as 'gay'?  It hardly adds to the credibility of your posts (IMO).  Although like you, I'm surprised to see the C-Class in last place...

[thewizard16]

Wimmer, why do you have to describe things you don't like as 'gay'?  It hardly adds to the credibility of your posts (IMO).  Although like you, I'm surprised to see the C-Class in last place...

For that comparison, I'm not. They were trying to compare small sport luxury cars, and the Mercedes evidently hasn't been doing as good a job in that segment as the others from pretty much everything that's been said.

[TheIntrepid]

Wimmer, why do you have to describe things you don't like as 'gay'?  It hardly adds to the credibility of your posts (IMO).  Although like you, I'm surprised to see the C-Class in last place...

C&D is very BMW and Infiniti biased, but I'm surprised to see the CTS in third.

[LonghornTX]

C&D is very BMW and Infiniti biased, but I'm surprised to see the CTS in third.

C&D likes cars that drive better than their competitors.  Infiniti and BMW happen to do that often...I wouldn't call that a bias.

BTW, having driven all but the new C-Class I would say my opinion breaks down about the same as theirs.  Am I biased as well?

[ifcar]

C&D is very BMW and Infiniti biased, but I'm surprised to see the CTS in third.

People used to say that they were just BMW biased. Then Infiniti started to make cars that they liked, so they're suddenly Infiniti-biased, too.

Idiot.

[SVT666]

It's not C&D's fault BMW and Infinity make superior cars Trep.    I suppose you would prefer it if they had this same comparo 4 times and have a different winner every time?

[TheIntrepid]

People used to say that they were just BMW biased. Then Infiniti started to make cars that they liked, so they're suddenly Infiniti-biased, too.

Idiot.

No need for the name calling.

[TheIntrepid]

I suppose you would prefer it if they had this same comparo 4 times and have a different winner every time?

Quite possibly. I just had a thought; wasn't it C&D a few years ago that put the CTS against all the other luxury cars and it beat them out? Or was that Road & Track?

[Raghavan]

Quite possibly. I just had a thought; wasn't it C&D a few years ago that put the CTS against all the other luxury cars and it beat them out? Or was that Road & Track?

C&D is so anti-CTS that they picked the S4 over the CTS-V in a comparo because the S4 is much easier to live with even though they were testing how sporty and performance oriented the cars were, which ironically the CTS-V was much better than the S4.

[TheIntrepid]

C&D is so anti-CTS that they picked the S4 over the CTS-V in a comparo because the S4 is much easier to live with even though they were testing how sporty and performance oriented the cars were, which ironically the CTS-V was much better than the S4.

Upon backchecking my records, it WAS R&T that I was thinking of

June 2004 to be exact.

[TBR]

C&D is so anti-CTS that they picked the S4 over the CTS-V in a comparo because the S4 is much easier to live with even though they were testing how sporty and performance oriented the cars were, which ironically the CTS-V was much better than the S4.

Or, they used the same rating system they always use which is designed with the priorities of people who actually buy these cars in mind.

[Raghavan]

Or, they used the same rating system they always use which is designed with the priorities of people who actually buy these cars in mind.

Then they shouldn't have tested the cars with the main focus on being performance.

[TBR]

So they should just ignore everything but performance because they tested sports sedans at a race track? Don't be stupid, people don't buy these cars for performance only.

[Raghavan]

So they should just ignore everything but performance because they tested sports sedans at a race track? Don't be stupid, people don't buy these cars for performance only.

They explicitly stated that they wanted to find the best performer out of the bunch. C&D is stupid to go and pick the most comfortable car in a comparo thats about performance. There's nothing stupid about it.

[Colonel Cadillac]

Sounds like GM's advertising dollars made themselves present where they count just a bit more...the 10 best.

That said, I am ColonelCadillac, so damnit Cadillac for having a shitty manual!

[cawimmer430]

Actually, it's not a lack of response.  The car has a very quick turn-in, but the effort required to turn the wheel is too light, which makes for an awkward feeling.  Generally, quick turn-in should be accompanied by a firmer wheel.

I see what you mean. Here in Europe we have the Parameterlenkung. A device which ensures that at low speed the steering is tight and responsive meaning that the moment you turn the steeering wheel the wheels will turn right away. At higher speeds this system makes the steering wheel more vague, for pleasureable high-speed cruising. I've driven the W204 and other MB's which had this system on the Autobahn and you can feel the difference in response and steering turn-in. I don't know if US-spec MB's have this, or if it's programmed to work differently over there. 

They didn't say it wasn't sporty, it just wasn't on the same level as the others.  To quote the last line of their piece on the Benz:

"It's sporty on an intramural level; too bad the rest of the class plays on varsity."

I don't think most buyers will care too much. It's a given that if you want sport in this class, you go to BMW and Infiniti, Audi and possibly Lexus. Mercedes has always given enough sport to satisfy most sporty needs for the average buyer. The new C-Class is sportier than ever - I can attest to that having driven a ton of W203s and W204s. If I was a shopper in this class and wanted a nice blend between sport and comfort, I'd look up the C-Class and CTS, possibly the Lexus IS. Hardcore sport? BMW, Infiniti and Audi. That's the way I see it...

In the US, the C300 Sport is only offered with one type of seat.  Mercedes' website calls them "sport seats".  Whether these are the same sport seats as what are offered in Europe I do not know.

That's pretty weak. The AMG package overhere gives you sport seats. MB marketing at its finest (in the US)...

C&D is not the only American magazine I've read that has complained about low-rent, shiny hard plastics in the new C class.  Motortrend also made some comments about the interior not being up to what they'd expect from a Mercedes.

I thought the interior was cheap too when I saw it in pictures. But after spending time in these cars I could see that it's well made and that the materials are fine for an entry-level luxury car.