Hybrid v. Diesel

[Catman]

I thought that I would devote a little time in comparing a popular Hybrid to a popular Diesel, namely the Prius and the Jetta.  Both are designed to be efficient vehicles.



The 2005 Jetta TDI Auto

Average price with no options is $22,142

Exterior
Length: 172.3 in.    Width: 68.3 in.
Height: 56.7 in.    Wheel Base: 98.9 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.2 in.    Curb Weight: 3115 lbs.
Gross Weight: 4063 lbs.

Interior
Front Head Room: 37.4 in.    Front Shoulder Room: 53.7 in.
Rear Head Room: 36.5 in.    Rear Shoulder Room: 52.5 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.5 in.    Rear Leg Room: 33.5 in.
Luggage Capacity: 13 cu. ft.    Maximum Seating: 5
Performance Data

Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 4    Base Engine Size: 1.9 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 4    Horsepower: 100 hp
Max Horsepower: 4000 rpm    Torque: 177 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 1800 rpm    Drive Type: FWD
Turning Circle: 35.8 ft.    

Fuel Data

Fuel Tank Capacity: 14.5 gal.    
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Automatic: : 32 mpg / 43 mpg    
Range in Miles: (City/Highway)
Automatic: 464 mi. / 623.5 mi.




The 2005 Toyota Prius CVT

Average price with no options is $21,929

Exterior
Length: 175 in.    Width: 67.9 in.
Height: 58.1 in.    Wheel Base: 106.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 4.9 in.    Curb Weight: 2890 lbs.

Interior
Front Head Room: 39.1 in.    Front Hip Room: 51 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 55.3 in.    Rear Head Room: 37.1 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 53 in.    Rear Hip Room: 51.6 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.9 in.    Rear Leg Room: 38.6 in.
Luggage Capacity: 16.1 cu. ft.    Maximum Cargo Capacity: 16 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
Performance Data

Performance
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 10.37 sec.    Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 131.65 ft.
Base Number of Cylinders: 4    Base Engine Size: 1.5 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 4    Horsepower: 76 hp
Max Horsepower: 5000 rpm    Torque: 82 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4200 rpm    Drive Type: FWD
Turning Circle: 34.1 ft.

Fuel Data

Fuel Tank Capacity: 11.9 gal.    
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Automatic: : 60 mpg / 51 mpg    
Range in Miles: (City/Highway)
Automatic: 714 mi. / 606.9 mi.    



What is the better long term value here?  From what I gather the Prius rarely achieves the advertised mpg while the Jetta often exceeds them.  I speced the VW with an auto to match the prius spec even though most of us would opt for the manual in this car.

Personally, I'd go with the VW for long-term savings as the Prius makes me nervous with the batteries, etc.

[bobwill]

I'd probably go with the Jetta as well, for now.
You can check out what real people are claiming for gas mileage at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList

[BMWDave]

The VW will almost surely last longer than the Prius with all its batteries and computers.

[giant_mtb]

I'd go with the Jetta.

[Fire It Up]

Jetta. Even if it has lower MPGs, it has way mor hp and WAY more torque and looks much better.

[MX793]

I'd probably go with the Jetta as well, for now.
You can check out what real people are claiming for gas mileage at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList

You can't buy diesel Jettas here in NY  :angry: .

I'd probably opt for a diesel.  Really, I think that a switch to biodiesel burning engines would be a good alternative to petroleum fuels.  IC engines running on renewable bio fuels like ethanol or biodiesel would be pretty easy to make based on existing, well proven technology.  Hydrogen burning IC engines would be another route (cleaner than biodiesel) rather than jumping right into fuel cells.

[Catman]

Jetta. Even if it has lower MPGs, it has way mor hp and WAY more torque and looks much better.

I understand that the torque on the VW actually make it feel pretty peppy.

[NomisR]

Well considering that Diesel costs more and is harder to find a station with diesel as well which makes it a bit of a hassel.  But if fuel cost was a concern, I'd get a Civic HX over both those cars since I can get A LOT of gas from the money saved.  Or even a Civic Hybrid is a better option since it gets closer to advertised mileage than Prius does.

[giant_mtb]

Well considering that Diesel costs more and is harder to find a station with diesel as well which makes it a bit of a hassel.  But if fuel cost was a concern, I'd get a Civic HX over both those cars since I can get A LOT of gas from the money saved.  Or even a Civic Hybrid is a better option since it gets closer to advertised mileage than Prius does.

I'm still confused on why people always say they can't find a station with diesel (or there aren't that many out there)...if my memory serves me correctly, every gas station I've ever been to has diesel fuel...?  <_<

[Fire It Up]

Jetta. Even if it has lower MPGs, it has way mor hp and WAY more torque and looks much better.

I understand that the torque on the VW actually make it feel pretty peppy.

My point exactly.  

[Fire It Up]

Well considering that Diesel costs more and is harder to find a station with diesel as well which makes it a bit of a hassel.? But if fuel cost was a concern, I'd get a Civic HX over both those cars since I can get A LOT of gas from the money saved.? Or even a Civic Hybrid is a better option since it gets closer to advertised mileage than Prius does.

I'm still confused on why people always say they can't find a station with diesel (or there aren't that many out there)...if my memory serves me correctly, every gas station I've ever been to has diesel fuel...?  <_<

No, not every. The gas station my family usually fills up at (a Mobil1) doesnt offer diesel.  

[Catman]

Not an issue around here.  Most stations carry diesel.

[TurboDan]

You can't buy diesel Jettas here in NY  :angry: .

Really??  I've seen them around.  I guess people just bought them in Jersey, then.  Do you know why they don't sell them in NY?

[ifcar]

Jetta. Even if it has lower MPGs, it has way mor hp and WAY more torque and looks much better.

The Prius has more horsepower, and is actually quicker. And MPG is still much better on the Prius in real-world testing, according to both CR and Car and Driver.  

[bobwill]

You can't buy diesel Jettas here in NY  :angry: .

Really??  I've seen them around.  I guess people just bought them in Jersey, then.  Do you know why they don't sell them in NY?

Currently the Jetta diessel doesn't pass NY emissions.
Personally, I think it's rather stupid, according to the EPA it's no worse an offender than the Celica GTS.

[NomisR]

You can't buy diesel Jettas here in NY? :angry: .

Really??  I've seen them around.  I guess people just bought them in Jersey, then.  Do you know why they don't sell them in NY?

Currently the Jetta diessel doesn't pass NY emissions.
Personally, I think it's rather stupid, according to the EPA it's no worse an offender than the Celica GTS.

I believe it's the same in CA although I haven't looked.  When I went to the Mercedes event, there were talking about the CDI E class but was saying it's currently not being sold in CA so should apply to all Diesel cars.

[Fire It Up]

Jetta. Even if it has lower MPGs, it has way mor hp and WAY more torque and looks much better.

The Prius has more horsepower, and is actually quicker. And MPG is still much better on the Prius in real-world testing, according to both CR and Car and Driver.

Jetta:
Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 4 Base Engine Size: 1.9 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 4 Horsepower: 100 hp

Pruis:
Performance
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 10.37 sec. Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 131.65 ft.
Base Number of Cylinders: 4 Base Engine Size: 1.5 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 4 Horsepower: 76 hp

?

Well, even if the Pruis is really faster, the CVT thing is so boring.  

[ifcar]

Jetta. Even if it has lower MPGs, it has way mor hp and WAY more torque and looks much better.

The Prius has more horsepower, and is actually quicker. And MPG is still much better on the Prius in real-world testing, according to both CR and Car and Driver.

Jetta:
Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 4 Base Engine Size: 1.9 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 4 Horsepower: 100 hp

Pruis:
Performance
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 10.37 sec. Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 131.65 ft.
Base Number of Cylinders: 4 Base Engine Size: 1.5 liters
Base Engine Type: Inline 4 Horsepower: 76 hp

?

Well, even if the Pruis is really faster, the CVT thing is so boring.

The Prius is slow, but the Jetta is probably a second slower to 60, maybe even with the manual. And you're only counting the gasoline engine for the Prius, the electric motors provide additional horsepower, for a total of something like 110, maybe more.  

[MX793]

Well considering that Diesel costs more and is harder to find a station with diesel as well which makes it a bit of a hassel.  But if fuel cost was a concern, I'd get a Civic HX over both those cars since I can get A LOT of gas from the money saved.  Or even a Civic Hybrid is a better option since it gets closer to advertised mileage than Prius does.

I'm still confused on why people always say they can't find a station with diesel (or there aren't that many out there)...if my memory serves me correctly, every gas station I've ever been to has diesel fuel...?  <_<

I just made a quick trip to the mall.  I passed 4 gas stations.  None of them offered diesel.

Diesel availability depends on location.  On a per fuel station basis, the percentage of gas stations selling diesel in urban areas is generally lower than in more rural areas.  Around here, I'd wager it's only maybe 1 in 6 gas stations that sells diesel.  Maybe less.

[Tom]

I'd go with the Jetta, but I would take a Golf diesel over a Jetta.  In Europe they have a version of the Golf that makes something like 250 lb/ft of torque while getting excellent diesel mileage.

Another variable to the equation is the rising cost of diesel.  Remember when diesel was 20-30 cent cheaper than gas?  Now it's more.  Hopefully that changes!

[Tom]

Well considering that Diesel costs more and is harder to find a station with diesel as well which makes it a bit of a hassel.? But if fuel cost was a concern, I'd get a Civic HX over both those cars since I can get A LOT of gas from the money saved.? Or even a Civic Hybrid is a better option since it gets closer to advertised mileage than Prius does.

I'm still confused on why people always say they can't find a station with diesel (or there aren't that many out there)...if my memory serves me correctly, every gas station I've ever been to has diesel fuel...?  <_<

I just made a quick trip to the mall.  I passed 4 gas stations.  None of them offered diesel.

Diesel availability depends on location.  On a per fuel station basis, the percentage of gas stations selling diesel in urban areas is generally lower than in more rural areas.  Around here, I'd wager it's only maybe 1 in 6 gas stations that sells diesel.  Maybe less.

It's more common on highways for all the trucks to load up.

[giant_mtb]

I'd go with the Jetta, but I would take a Golf diesel over a Jetta.  In Europe they have a version of the Golf that makes something like 250 lb/ft of torque while getting excellent diesel mileage.

Another variable to the equation is the rising cost of diesel.  Remember when diesel was 20-30 cent cheaper than gas?  Now it's more.  Hopefully that changes!

I think diesel prices went up because ever since regular fuel prices started going up a lot of people started going out and buying diesel cars/trucks to get better fuel economy, which created more demand for the stuff and so they did/had to raise the prices.......at least that's what I think probably happened.    

[ifcar]

I'd go with the Jetta, but I would take a Golf diesel over a Jetta.  In Europe they have a version of the Golf that makes something like 250 lb/ft of torque while getting excellent diesel mileage.

Another variable to the equation is the rising cost of diesel.  Remember when diesel was 20-30 cent cheaper than gas?  Now it's more.  Hopefully that changes!

I think diesel prices went up because ever since regular fuel prices started going up a lot of people started going out and buying diesel cars/trucks to get better fuel economy, which created more demand for the stuff and so they did/had to raise the prices.......at least that's what I think probably happened.  

I doubt there's been a surge in diesel popularity, and the supply could always increase at the expense of regular gasoline if it had to.  

[MX793]

Well considering that Diesel costs more and is harder to find a station with diesel as well which makes it a bit of a hassel.  But if fuel cost was a concern, I'd get a Civic HX over both those cars since I can get A LOT of gas from the money saved.  Or even a Civic Hybrid is a better option since it gets closer to advertised mileage than Prius does.

I'm still confused on why people always say they can't find a station with diesel (or there aren't that many out there)...if my memory serves me correctly, every gas station I've ever been to has diesel fuel...?  <_<

I just made a quick trip to the mall.  I passed 4 gas stations.  None of them offered diesel.

Diesel availability depends on location.  On a per fuel station basis, the percentage of gas stations selling diesel in urban areas is generally lower than in more rural areas.  Around here, I'd wager it's only maybe 1 in 6 gas stations that sells diesel.  Maybe less.

It's more common on highways for all the trucks to load up.

Exactly.  I drove through a predominantly suburban/urban area where there are no major truck routes.  Since those are the main purchasers of diesel, there's no point in selling diesel if you're not in an area where there's a decent amount of truck traffic.

[MX793]

Diesel prices are on the rise most likely due to the new diesel regulations, requiring low sulfur fuel be produced.

[280Z Turbo]

Why choose? I'd like a diesel hybrid!

Has that been done? Are there any problems with this?

[bobwill]

Why choose? I'd like a diesel hybrid!

Has that been done? Are there any problems with this?

There have been some prototypes, a good number of companies are working on them.  The only concern that I'm aware of is that diesel engines tend not to like to be turned off and back on every few minutes like a gas engine can be.  Of course, that doesn't seem to be a problem with the smaller VW diesel engines like in the Golf.