Civic Type R vs S2000

[565]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=123912?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2.*


Stupid Video's in parts, keep scrolling down to see the next part.

[CJ]

I saw this the other day.  I was quite surprised.  I figured the S2000 would win because it's a designated sports car.

[Raghavan]

Pretty amazing how they've eliminated all the torque steer.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

S2000 fans won't like this. The pure sports car is out gunned by a 4 door FWD sedan. 

[Raghavan]

I want to see a CTR vs Si Mugen race.

[SVT_Power]

What's the price difference between a S2000 and a CTR over in japan? Well the final price of the S2000 if they've stopped selling them

[MX793]

I want to see a CTR vs Si Mugen race.

The Si Mugen makes no more power than the standard Si.  The engine was untouched, they just added a louder exhaust (that adds no power).  And based on C&D's test, doesn't even handle all that much better, quantitatively speaking.  Qualitatively the suspension is a step up, but the numbers don't really show any real improvement.  A Type R would more than likely eat its lunch.

[Raghavan]

The Si Mugen makes no more power than the standard Si.  The engine was untouched, they just added a louder exhaust (that adds no power).  And based on C&D's test, doesn't even handle all that much better, quantitatively speaking.  Qualitatively the suspension is a step up, but the numbers don't really show any real improvement.  A Type R would more than likely eat its lunch.

Oh. I was just asking because Raza says that it's an awesome car.

[MX793]

A few comments on the video:

1)  Did anybody else find it odd that the guys in the test cars were wearing helmets while the guys in the chase car, which was going just as fast, were not?

2)  I'm actually not that surprised that the CTR was pulling away.  IIRC, JDM S2000s never got the displacement bump that the US market cars got.  Its powerband is not appreciably broader than that of the CTR (they are the same engine with the S2K getting another 15 or so hp more peak) and it weighs several hundred pounds more.  Power-to-weight should favor the Civic.  I'd be curious how a US market S2K would fare, with its larger, torquier motor.  Would certainly help when pulling out of the tighter corners.

[Catman]

That Civic is nice.  I wouldn't mind one minus the spoiler.

[sportyaccordy]

Saw a vid like that a while back, except it was a Spoon Civic w/the Integra Type R motor throwing an S2K around the track.

Like they said, the Civic allowed the drivers to put on the power earlier coming out of the turns, which I find ridiculous. Doesn't the S2K have an LSD? In any case, kids, the moral of the story is, FWD vs RWD isn't everything.

[ArchBishop]

Actually, the S2000 uses the F series motor while the SI/Type R use the K series motor. Different.

[JYODER240]

Who really cares that much if another car is faster around a track? I'd bet the S2000 is still more fun to drive which is far more important.

[TheIntrepid]

Who really cares that much if another car is faster around a track? I'd bet the S2000 is still more fun to drive which is far more important.

If it wins in a straight line, you say "who cares if it's in a straight line, it's around the track that matters"

If it wins around a track, you say "who cares if it's around a track, it's fun to drive that matters"

Shut the fuck up. If it's better around a track, and it's better in a straight line, it's a better car.

[Minpin]

I'd bet the S2000 is still more fun to drive which is far more important.

Right, since your opinion that the s2k is more fun to drive should be our opinion as well.

[JYODER240]

If it wins in a straight line, you say "who cares if it's in a straight line, it's around the track that matters"

If it wins around a track, you say "who cares if it's around a track, it's fun to drive that matters"

Shut the fuck up. If it's better around a track, and it's better in a straight line, it's a better car.

When I read posts like this I have to wonder why I still come to this forum. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I never say it's around a track that matters. Show me where I have. How many people do you think are going to competitively race either one of these cars? It doesn't matter if one is a second faster around a track than the other. You buy these cars to have fun and the which car is more fun is far more important than which one is faster. Faster doesn't neccasarily mean better and I've said for the longest time that how a car goes around a track is more important than how fast it does. Douchebag.

[JYODER240]

Right, since your opinion that the s2k is more fun to drive should be our opinion as well.

Did I say that it had to be you opinion? I said, "I'd  bet".

[TheIntrepid]

I never say it's around a track that matters. Show me where I have. How many people do you think are going to competitively race either one of these cars? It doesn't matter if one is a second faster around a track than the other. You buy these cars to have fun and the which car is more fun is far more important than which one is faster. Faster doesn't neccasarily mean better and I've said for the longest time that how a car goes around a track is more important than how fast it does. Douchebag.

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh. Well where do you draw the line between opinion and fact? "FUN" is simply an opinion. There's that guy I posted about in General Auto who thinks his base 2.4 Camry is the best fun ever... and there's you here syaing that a Civic Type R isn't as fun as an S2000 despite the fact that you haven't even driven the CTR.

[The Pirate]

As much as I love the S2000, if I was buying one of these for daily driver/only car purposes, it'd probably be the CTR or Si.  I need the practicality.  For a second car, S2000 without a doubt.

[Raghavan]

As much as I love the S2000, if I was buying one of these for daily driver/only car purposes, it'd probably be the CTR or Si.  I need the practicality.  For a second car, S2000 without a doubt.

+1
As much of a FWD hater I am, the CTR is making a very convincing and appealing case for itself.

[JYODER240]

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh. Well where do you draw the line between opinion and fact? "FUN" is simply an opinion. There's that guy I posted about in General Auto who thinks his base 2.4 Camry is the best fun ever... and there's you here syaing that a Civic Type R isn't as fun as an S2000 despite the fact that you haven't even driven the CTR.

I said "I'd bet", I've driven S2000's, even pushed them past their limits on an autocross track. I'd put my money on the convertible RWD sports-car being more fun to drive than the Civic. That doesn't mean I think the Civic would be boring.

There's more to whats fun that opinion. Would anybody in their right mind say a Town Car is more fun to drive than a Ariel Atom?

[Minpin]

Did I say that it had to be you opinion? I said, "I'd  bet".

What im saying is that just because you think it might drive better doesn't mean I think it will drive better.

[Raghavan]

Actually, the S2000 uses the F series motor while the SI/Type R use the K series motor. Different.

+1

I've heard that the F series motor runs backwards from the rest of the motors used in FWD cars, so if you put a FWD transmission onto it, you'd have 6 backward gears and 1 forward gear. I don't know if that's true though.

[Minpin]

Would anybody in their right mind say a Town Car is more fun to drive than a Ariel Atom?

Maybe a Senior Citizen or two.

[JYODER240]

What im saying is that just because you think it might drive better doesn't mean I think it will drive better.

Did I say you would? Or do I have to start putting "IMO" in front of everything I say?

[TheIntrepid]

I said "I'd bet", I've driven S2000's, even pushed them past their limits on an autocross track. I'd put my money on the convertible RWD sports-car being more fun to drive than the Civic. That doesn't mean I think the Civic would be boring.

There's more to whats fun that opinion. Would anybody in their right mind say a Town Car is more fun to drive than a Ariel Atom?

The CTR is still a sports car.

No there's not more to fun than opinion. A comparison between a Town Car and an Ariel Atom is absurd, but something like between a CTR and an S2000, or an IS250 and a 328i, is plausible. When it comes to cars in similar classes and price range, fun is purely subjective.

[Minpin]

Did I say you would? Or do I have to start putting "IMO" in front of everything I say?

IMO would of kept me silent, so yes. 

[TheIntrepid]

Maybe a Senior Citizen or two.

Or CJ. I believe it was him who said he wanted to track a Park Avenue yesterday.

[Raghavan]

What im saying is that just because you think it might drive better doesn't mean I think it will drive better.

Congrats....?
It's a forum. Everyone states their opinion. He isn't telling you what to believe, he's just stating what he  believes. You might not agree with it, and that's why it's called an opinion.
Did he ever say that his opinion is correct? No.

[JYODER240]

The CTR is still a sports car.

No there's not more to fun than opinion. A comparison between a Town Car and an Ariel Atom is absurd, but something like between a CTR and an S2000, or an IS250 and a 328i, is plausible. When it comes to cars in similar classes and price range, fun is purely subjective.

The CTR is not a sports car, it has 4-doors a back seat and is FWD. It's a compact sports-sedan.

There are things that make a car more fun to drive than others. Things like the auto vs manual, the feel of the gearbox, the clutch, the steering feel, steering ratio, brake feel, engine sound, engine power, chassis balance, etc. All have an effect on how fun the car is to drive. Fun is partialy subjective not purely.