Hardtop or convertible?

[SVT666]

Good, then go away. If it's more important to whine like a baby about your opinion so you don't have to think, than to have a logical, mature conversation, then GTFO. I don't give a fuck if I look like a jerk. Better than looking like a 2 year old that only THINKS they like cars.

See ya.

Better yet, you leave.  You're the immature 2 year old.  Just look at your reponses and the way you lose your cool. 

[GoCougs]

This is harilious, a flame war over sunroofs....

God we've hit rock bottom.

LOL moment of the day. Somehow I missed the fun.

Get it through your thick skulls teh CarSPIN Internets - an opinion needs no other sanction than the simple fact that it exists. Nothing.

It's disingenuous to parade around in a magnanimous aura when all you really want to do is vent, or attack someone/something you don't like.

[Cookie Monster]

Better yet, you leave.  You're the immature 2 year old.  Just look at your reponses and the way you lose your cool. 

+1
Jerks aren't welcome here.
BTW, I like how you have the "holier than thou" attitude just because you've owned so many cars. So Minpin only thinks he likes cars, huh? But you actually know him better than he does, right, because you've owned so many cars? :Wtf:

[Raza]

Hard-tops all the way. I'd never own a convertible - safety, noise, comfort, durability, whatever - even if I lived in a convertible-friendly climate.

I don't think modern convertibles are noticeably less safe than hardtops.  I'd be willing to bet that a Cayman's louder than my Boxster (I know that the interior volume goes way up when the top is up).  Convertibles are probably just as comfortable, and I've never heard of a convertible failure on a modern car.

[MX793]

I don't think modern convertibles are noticeably less safe than hardtops.  I'd be willing to bet that a Cayman's louder than my Boxster (I know that the interior volume goes way up when the top is up).  Convertibles are probably just as comfortable, and I've never heard of a convertible failure on a modern car.

A fixed roof is definately structurally sounder.  Remember that woman who rolled her Solstice on the Tail of the Dragon?  The windshield hoop simply flattened.  A fixed roof most likely wouldn't have given like that.

As far as durability goes, it's not so much the mechanism's durability that is a chief concern.  The fabric itself wears through normal use and deteriorates over time (sunlight helps this along) and inevitably requires replacement, often within 10 years.

[MrH]

Well, I skipped the 6 page bitch fest for obvious reasons, and thought I'd weigh in on the whole issue.  If someone wants to call me out on it too, go right ahead.

Depends on the car for me.  I don't have too much experience with convertibles, so it's hard to say which I'd purchase if even the choice.  It would also really depend if it was my only car or not.  If I was buying a second car, I'd be much more likely to get a convertible.

As for sunroofs, even though I have one, I'd prefer to get rid of it.  I usually don't even notice if it's open or not.  No fresh air is really let in by it, and it just makes a lot of wind noise.  On top of that, it takes up valuable headroom from me, which I need every inch of because I have a really long torso.  If I had to do it all over again, I wish I had waited an looked at a nearly identical version of my car, but without a sunroof, with leather, and was Laser Blue instead of Silver.

[Minpin]

Good, then go away. If it's more important to whine like a baby about your opinion so you don't have to think, than to have a logical, mature conversation, then GTFO. I don't give a fuck if I look like a jerk. Better than looking like a 2 year old that only THINKS they like cars.

See ya.

I love you Chris V.

[Byteme]

Good, then go away. If it's more important to whine like a baby about your opinion so you don't have to think, than to have a logical, mature conversation, then GTFO. I don't give a fuck if I look like a jerk. Better than looking like a 2 year old that only THINKS they like cars.

See ya.

I guess that anger management class didn't do much good, eh?   

[TheIntrepid]

I don't get this... He states his opinion, and Yoder and now you are whining like a bitch about how Minpin is wrong.
How about you GTFO instead? You have a track record of always getting your panties into a bunch anyways if someone doesn't agree with your opinions because then they're just 'close minded' and illogical.

+1!!11!!ELEVEN

[Tave]

Why don't you go back and reread my posts so you can see what I was actually saying. I never said he should like sunroofs or that he needs to have one but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said his reasons for not liking sunroofs were illogical, which they were. He only complained about the poor setup in his car and then applied that to all sunroofs. He made them sound like they were worthless because all they do is let heat in the car, which again isn't true.

Well, that's not all they do, but it is one thing they do. If someone doesn't like the heat of a sunroof, then I think that's a good reason for that person not to buy one.

If you pull the shade forward it blocks the heat and stops the light from passing through.

Forgive me, but I think it's completely worthless to drive around with a shaded sunroof when it's nice outside. That's one of the most stupid, pointless activities I've ever heard of.

And like I said feeling the heat, the wind, etc is part of the driving experience. Being closed off from whats going on around you is isolation.

Like I said several times already everyone is entitled to their own opinion but if they're going to voice them on a public car forum they should atleast have logical reasons to back them up.

I hope you pursue every opinion with the same veracity and diligence you've committed to this one. Keep fighting the good fight.

[JYODER240]

Well, that's not all they do, but it is one thing they do. If someone doesn't like the heat of a sunroof, then I think that's a good reason for that person not to buy one.

Forgive me, but I think it's completely worthless to drive around with a shaded sunroof when it's nice outside. That's one of the most stupid, pointless activities I've ever heard of.

I hope you pursue every opinion with the same veracity and diligence you've committed to this one. Keep fighting the good fight.

I guess you didn't go back and actually read my posts.

Whatever I'm done with this. I don't care if you don't like sunroofs. Lots of people here don't and I didn't say anything to them about it. I said something to Minpin because his reasons for disliking them were weak and illogical. If I said something like "Corvette's suck, I drove one and the ride was rough and the interior was cramped" I would get called out on it wouldn't I? At least I hope I would. This is a public car forum where you are supposed to debate things, what's this place going to turn into if it's wrong to do that because it's someone's "personal" opinion. Isn't the purpose of this place to debate others opinions? I never said Minpin isn't entitled to his opinion no matter how illogical it is, but i'm allowed to point that out.

[SVT666]

I guess you didn't go back and actually read my posts.

Whatever I'm done with this. I don't care if you don't like sunroofs. Lots of people here don't and I didn't say anything to them about it. I said something to Minpin because his reasons for disliking them were weak and illogical. If I said something like "Corvette's suck, I drove one and the ride was rough and the interior was cramped" I would get called out on it wouldn't I? At least I hope I would. This is a public car forum where you are supposed to debate things, what's this place going to turn into if it's wrong to do that because it's someone's "personal" opinion. Isn't the purpose of this place to debate others opinions? I never said Minpin isn't entitled to his opinion no matter how illogical it is, but i'm allowed to point that out.

I don't understand how you and Chris think that someone's preference is up to debate.  Opinions based on false information?  Sure, but not a preference.  Preferences are not something that can be changed because you say it's wrong.

[JYODER240]

I don't understand how you and Chris think that someone's preference is up to debate.  Opinions based on false information?  Sure, but not a preference.  Preferences are not something that can be changed because you say it's wrong.

Call it opinion or preference, either way I'm not debating the preference itself. Notice I never tried to debate your stance on them? Like I said several times I don't care if you like them or not but you should be able to provide logical reasons for why you do or don't. The entire time Minpin was saying how sunroofs suck because of the poor setup on his car, the supposed 200F temps, etc. I was rightfuly debating his reasons for not liking sunroofs.

[SVT666]

Call it opinion or preference, either way I'm not debating the preference itself. Notice I never tried to debate your stance on them? Like I said several times I don't care if you like them or not but you should be able to provide logical reasons for why you do or don't. The entire time Minpin was saying how sunroofs suck because of the poor setup on his car, the supposed 200F temps, etc. I was rightfuly debating his reasons for not liking sunroofs.

Even the reasons for not liking something should not be up for debate.  If I don't like lowriders it doesn't matter why, or even if you think my reasons are weak, because obviously my reasons are good enough for me.

[Byteme]

Like I said several times I don't care if you like them or not but you should be able to provide logical reasons for why you do or don't.

Logical to who?  Reasons logical to one person may seem illogical to another.  That doesn't make either person's opinion or preference any less valid to themselves.


An example.  For years I wouldn't touch a Japanese car because I was (and still am to some extent) pissed off about Pearl Harbor. many would call that illogical, but I found it perfectly logical (Why support the people and country that killed many of my father's generation).  

[JYODER240]

Even the reasons for not liking something should not be up for debate.  If I don't like lowriders it doesn't matter why, or even if you think my reasons are weak, because obviously my reasons are good enough for me.

Then I suggest you don't come to a public car forum

[Byteme]

Then I suggest you don't come to a public car forum

Perhaps people come to discuss cars, not to get flamed for their opinions or preferences.

[Cookie Monster]

Then I suggest you don't come to a public car forum

Are you saying you'd like every thread to become a bitch fest like this one?

[JYODER240]

Perhaps people come to discuss cars, not to get flamed for their opinions or preferences.

For one no one got "flamed". Secondly, I've said this several times but apparently you're having trouble. I was never debating anyones opinion or preference. I was saying that he reasons for it were weak, which they were. This is a car forum, we were debating something car related. Whats wrong with that? Again if I said "Corvettes suck, I drove one and it was cramped and the ride was firm" shouldn't I be called out on that?

[Byteme]

For one no one got "flamed". Secondly, I've said this several times but apparently you're having trouble. I was never debating anyones opinion or preference. I was saying that he reasons for it were weak, which they were. This is a car forum, we were debating something car related. Whats wrong with that? Again if I said "Corvettes suck, I drove one and it was cramped and the ride was firm" shouldn't I be called out on that?

No, I'm having no trouble at all.  I didn't specifically state you flamed him, but he certainly got flamed (IMHO).

When you debate the reasons for someone's preferences or opinions you are challenging the preference or opinion itself.  They might have seemed weak to you but they were strong enough to him to drive his opinion.

"You don't like Corvetts?  OK, others do."  Seriously, If you made your statement that's pretty much how I would respond.

[Tave]

I guess you didn't go back and actually read my posts.

Whatever I'm done with this. I don't care if you don't like sunroofs.

I like them. I like convertibles. I voted convertible at the beginning of the thread, and as soon as the topic of sunroofs came up, I said I would always take a car that has one over one that doesn't.

Lots of people here don't and I didn't say anything to them about it. I said something to Minpin because his reasons for disliking them were weak and illogical. If I said something like "Corvette's suck, I drove one and the ride was rough and the interior was cramped" I would get called out on it wouldn't I? At least I hope I would. This is a public car forum where you are supposed to debate things, what's this place going to turn into if it's wrong to do that because it's someone's "personal" opinion. Isn't the purpose of this place to debate others opinions? I never said Minpin isn't entitled to his opinion no matter how illogical it is, but i'm allowed to point that out.

I agree with you in principle, but in practice, it sounded a lot harsher than that.

And, IMO, the decision wether or not to buy a sunroof isn't much different from the decision of what color to buy. It's simply not something worth arguing about. I don't care if someone hates sunroof, whatever their reason, just like I don't care if someone hates black cars. It's not worth my time to call them out.

[TheIntrepid]

Again if I said "Corvettes suck, I drove one and it was cramped and the ride was firm" shouldn't I be called out on that?

No. You should be let be, because it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Sort of like that guy who likes Toyota Camries because they're smooth, quiet, and comfortable....

[SVT666]

For one no one got "flamed". Secondly, I've said this several times but apparently you're having trouble. I was never debating anyones opinion or preference. I was saying that he reasons for it were weak, which they were. This is a car forum, we were debating something car related. Whats wrong with that? Again if I said "Corvettes suck, I drove one and it was cramped and the ride was firm" shouldn't I be called out on that?

If you said the Corvette sucked because it has a shitty engine, I would be all over you.  But if you said the Corvette sucked because the ride was too harsh and the interior was made of shitty plastic and the seats feel like they're going to break all the time, then I would leave you be.  But that's an opinion, not a preference.  If you say you prefer a 300 hp V6 to a 300 hp V8 because you prefer the sound I would leave you be even though I think you're fucking nuts because it's a preference not an opinion.  See the difference?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

 

[omicron]

[565]

Whats wrong with that? Again if I said "Corvettes suck, I drove one and it was cramped and the ride was firm" shouldn't I be called out on that?

Corvettes don't suck,  you suck.

[Soup DeVille]

A fixed roof is definately structurally sounder.  Remember that woman who rolled her Solstice on the Tail of the Dragon?  The windshield hoop simply flattened.  A fixed roof most likely wouldn't have given like that.

As far as durability goes, it's not so much the mechanism's durability that is a chief concern.  The fabric itself wears through normal use and deteriorates over time (sunlight helps this along) and inevitably requires replacement, often within 10 years.

What percentage of people do you think keep their cars for ten years and expect not to replace any parts?

[280Z Turbo]

What percentage of people do you think keep their cars for ten years and expect not to replace any parts?

Tops aren't cheap.

My dad's Corvette has the top down most of the time now since it's shrunk so bad and doesn't even come close to sealing. Although it is 45 years old.

[Soup DeVille]

Tops aren't cheap.

My dad's Corvette has the top down most of the time now since it's shrunk so bad and doesn't even come close to sealing. Although it is 45 years old.

Neither are engines or transmissions: and after ten years it's not unheard of to be replacing both.

And I don't think anybody ever buys a convertible because it's the most practical option; they know they're paying more for a feature they want.

[280Z Turbo]

Neither are engines or transmissions: and after ten years it's not unheard of to be replacing both.

And I don't think anybody ever buys a convertible because it's the most practical option; they know they're paying more for a feature they want.

A modern engine and trans should last longer than that. My dad's Vette still has the original motor and trans!