raise highway and interstate speedlimits 10 MPH

[Sean]

I use the bright flashers all the time warning people of speed traps, is that illegal?
I think of it as just simply helping people out
I have nothing against LEOs, I just like it when people warn me of a speed trap, so I warn others.....

[Raza]

Actually, a careful re-read of my post shows that I said it is a ticketable offense, not whether it should or shouldn't be. And it is - at least in Washington. So is using the horn at "inappropriate" times. How often these laws are enforced I'm not exactly sure...

People act as if left-lane camping is this mammoth sin. It really isn't. The sin is common  reactions to it, such as tailgating and spirited left-lane banditry (though I wouldn't include high-beam flashing, which I try not to do but have). I dislike left-lane camping as much as the next guy, but there's only so much one can do.

Oh, you're right.  You had IMO in there, and that's what led me to believe you were stating an opinion. 

Left lane camping is a sin.  Differential in speed and people driving where they shouldn't causes problems.  Driving 55mph in the left lane of a highway is the same as driving 20mph on a single lane 45mph limit road, in my eyes.

[Sean]

I think left lane hogging should be considered reckless endangerment of other drivers, but that's just me

[dazzleman]

I think left lane hogging should be considered reckless endangerment of other drivers, but that's just me

I like the way you think.

[Sean]

Does anyone else thinking driving while talking on your cell should be a primary offense?
It's a secondary offense here if you're under 18 and driving and from watching my parents drive while talking, I think it should be an expensive ticket...
a 7000 pound van with 11 people in it plowing into another soccermom SUV doesnt sound like a fantastic accident to have to clean up....
I know teens are "inexperienced" or whatever, but you can't do two things at once safely, you can't drive and talk or text just like you can't write a good paper for school while watching TV and surfing the net(unless you're using wikipedia..... )

[NomisR]

Personally, I believe the world is ruled or limited by the lowest common denominators which is what we're doing right now.  When you set artificially low goals/limits and punish those who exceeds such, what are we accomplishing here?  Shouldn't we be weeding out and getting rid of those that can't meet the minimum requirement instead of trying to bend the rules so they meet it?  We're dumbing down the world and this will result in our demise..

This applies to speed limit and all the other facts of life.

[Sean]

Personally, I believe the world should be be ruled or limited by the lowest common denominators which is what we're doing right now.  When you set artificially low goals/limits and punish those who exceeds such, what are we accomplishing here?  Shouldn't we be weeding out and getting rid of those that can't meet the minimum requirement instead of trying to bend the rules so they meet it?  We're dumbing down the world and this will result in our demise..

This applies to speed limit and all the other facts of life.

[dazzleman]

Personally, I believe the world should be be ruled or limited by the lowest common denominators which is what we're doing right now.  When you set artificially low goals/limits and punish those who exceeds such, what are we accomplishing here?  Shouldn't we be weeding out and getting rid of those that can't meet the minimum requirement instead of trying to bend the rules so they meet it?  We're dumbing down the world and this will result in our demise..

This applies to speed limit and all the other facts of life.

There's a lot of truth in what you're saying.  Just because some people can't handle more than 50 mph doesn't mean that everybody else should be held back.

[Sean]

If you can't handle the heat get away from the fire!

[NomisR]

Does anyone else thinking driving while talking on your cell should be a primary offense?
It's a secondary offense here if you're under 18 and driving and from watching my parents drive while talking, I think it should be an expensive ticket...
a 7000 pound van with 11 people in it plowing into another soccermom SUV doesnt sound like a fantastic accident to have to clean up....
I know teens are "inexperienced" or whatever, but you can't do two things at once safely, you can't drive and talk or text just like you can't write a good paper for school while watching TV and surfing the net(unless you're using wikipedia..... )

I remember seeing the status for the primary cause of accidents and I believe speeding is ranked at a distant 5th behind drunk driving, failure to yield, not paying attention, failure to signal. 

Yet, speeding is consider the biggest of all crimes, imagine that..

I can't seem to finid the stats now though

[dazzleman]

I remember seeing the status for the primary cause of accidents and I believe speeding is ranked at a distant 5th behind drunk driving, failure to yield, not paying attention, failure to signal. 

Yet, speeding is consider the biggest of all crimes, imagine that..

I can't seem to finid the stats now though

I agree with you.  People talk as if speeding is the worst thing people do on the road, but I think other things are far more dangerous than speeding up to a certain point.  I think left lane camping is more dangerous than moderate speeding, yet some here seem to think that we should all just tolerate left lane campers even as we penalize speeders primarily.

[ifcar]

I agree with you.  People talk as if speeding is the worst thing people do on the road, but I think other things are far more dangerous than speeding up to a certain point.  I think left lane camping is more dangerous than moderate speeding, yet some here seem to think that we should all just tolerate left lane campers even as we penalize speeders primarily.

Really. Who said that?

[Eye of the Tiger]

I don't even think speeding exists. Left-lane camping, not signialing, failure to yield, crashing into a pole, running over pedestrians - those are a definate and tangible offense, but speeding? Well now, let me see... I don't have any idea what that means. I know what you think it means, but to me it's just a made up word - a politician's word, so young fellas like yourself can drive around in your police cars and wear a badge and have a job.... So you go on and write your tickets, sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because to tell you the truth, I don't give a shit.

[GoCougs]

Really. Who said that?

I think he was referring mostly to me.

And he's right - you, I and everyone else pretty much has to tolerate left-lane campers. We, as private individuals, can't make someone stop doing it, and most any action we can do to compel someone to stop doing it or otherwise subvert it isn't safe.

In my experience, left-lane campers are of two varieties - old people, or women talking to other passengers or on the phone - both demographics aren't going to pay attention a whole lot to pretty much the only benign action left to those stuck behind left-lane campers - flashing headlights - which works less than 50% of the time it seems, as if they were paying attention or had their wits about them, they'd not be camping.

[NomisR]

I think he was referring mostly to me.

And he's right - you, I and everyone else pretty much has to tolerate left-lane campers. We, as private individuals, can't make someone stop doing it, and most any action we can do to compel someone to stop doing it or otherwise subvert it isn't safe.

In my experience, left-lane campers are of two varieties - old people, or women talking to other passengers or on the phone - both demographics aren't going to pay attention a whole lot to pretty much the only benign action left to those stuck behind left-lane campers - flashing headlights - which works less than 50% of the time it seems, as if they were paying attention or had their wits about them, they'd not be camping.

So wouldn't enforcing left lane camping actually make the road safer, by reducing congesting and increase flow of traffic.  Therefore lane campers are making it more dangerous to the rest of us? 

[ifcar]

So wouldn't enforcing left lane camping actually make the road safer, by reducing congesting and increase flow of traffic.  Therefore lane campers are making it more dangerous to the rest of us? 

Only if the rest of us don't know how to drive. If you can't handle the hazard of someone driving slower than you are, you shouldn't be driving at a high rate of speed.

[Sean]

So wouldn't enforcing left lane camping actually make the road safer, by reducing congesting and increase flow of traffic.  Therefore lane campers are making it more dangerous to the rest of us? 

I think left lane camping should be treated like going 15+ over the limit is now, wreckless endangerment
generally the horn moves people over, a few hand gestures also get teh point across, but I look forward to a future where speed limits are nonexistant and slowing down traffic is considered a felony

[Eye of the Tiger]

Only if the rest of us don't know how to drive. If you can't handle the hazard of someone driving slower than you are, you shouldn't be driving at a high rate of speed.

I'm sure you are aware of how one person blocking the left lane can cause traffic to back up for miles behind them. I'm willing to bet that poor lane etiquette it is the primary cause of traffic congestion in the vast majority of cases where the road is otherwise capable of flowing the traffic effectivly. A sudden slowing of traffic leads to a chain reaction of brake lights for a hundered cars back, and that is a hudred chances for a collision to happen that wouldn't otherwise exist if one person would have stayed the hell over in the right lane.

[Sean]

I'm sure you are aware of how one person blocking the left lane can cause traffic to back up for miles behind them. I'm willing to bet that poor lane etiquette it is the primary cause of traffic congestion in the vast majority of cases where the road is otherwise capable of flowing the traffic effectivly. A sudden slowing of traffic leads to a chain reaction of brake lights for a hundered cars back, and that is a hudred chances for a collision to happen that wouldn't otherwise exist if one person would have stayed the hell over in the right lane.

[ifcar]

I'm sure you are aware of how one person blocking the left lane can cause traffic to back up for miles behind them. I'm willing to bet that poor lane etiquette it is the primary cause of traffic congestion in the vast majority of cases where the road is otherwise capable of flowing the traffic effectivly. A sudden slowing of traffic leads to a chain reaction of brake lights for a hundered cars back, and that is a hudred chances for a collision to happen that wouldn't otherwise exist if one person would have stayed the hell over in the right lane.

That's one possibility. But it requires at least one driver to have been inattentive or tailgating or both.

[dazzleman]

I'm sure you are aware of how one person blocking the left lane can cause traffic to back up for miles behind them. I'm willing to bet that poor lane etiquette it is the primary cause of traffic congestion in the vast majority of cases where the road is otherwise capable of flowing the traffic effectivly. A sudden slowing of traffic leads to a chain reaction of brake lights for a hundered cars back, and that is a hudred chances for a collision to happen that wouldn't otherwise exist if one person would have stayed the hell over in the right lane.

I agree completely.

[NomisR]

Only if the rest of us don't know how to drive. If you can't handle the hazard of someone driving slower than you are, you shouldn't be driving at a high rate of speed.

It's not the hazard of someone driving too close to me but the hazard of the entire freeway being backed up because someone was driving too slow.  As a result, everyone else is driving bumper to bumper, someone would be driving in my blind spot and I try my best to avoid driving in someone else's blind spot but since there's no room.  And if someone tries to drive into me.. there's no room to manuever. 

Again, what caused this whole mess to begin with?  The Lane camper!!

I've seen traffic backed up for miles because one asshole decide to lane camp with no cars in front of him.  The only reason I was able to pass him was because I had a FastTrak.  And this happens all over the place on a daily basis. 

[ifcar]

I think we've established that lane camping is bad. But even if it is illegal and well-enforced, you still have to be able to react to it rather than throw blame around. Once you've crashed it's bad no matter whose fault it is.

[NomisR]

I think we've established that lane camping is bad. But even if it is illegal and well-enforced, you still have to be able to react to it rather than throw blame around. Once you've crashed it's bad no matter whose fault it is.

I don't think anyone's complaining about crashing into lane campers.  If they are, they're dumb.  But again, it's about lane campers making the road more dangerous from congesting and wasting our time.

[ifcar]

If you say they're making the road dangerous, then I assume you're referring to some type of accident.

[Byteme]

I think he was referring mostly to me.


In my experience, left-lane campers are of two varieties - old people, or women talking to other passengers or on the phone -

I'm seeing more and more of a third kind, those who are apparently there just because they feel it's their right to make those behind them obey the speed limit. 

I normally speed where it is safe to do so.  In town, on a crowded freeway isn't the place to speed; same for surface streets.  There are just too many clowns on their cell phones, reading books, eating, farting around with their GPS, radio or whatever;  too many inattentive drivers, all moving along at more or less the same speed.  Now add in some Bozo who feels it's his god given right to go faster than everybody else in the left lane (and he will get right on your bumper if you don't) and the chances of an accident that involves several cars and inconveniences everybody go up significantly.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Americans are just too dumb for the poor road infrastructure and high traffic volumes that we have.

Consider the options available to solve this problem:

1. Kill Americans to unclog the highways
2. Build more and better roads NOW (but that's virtually impossible)
3. Train Americans to not be dumb asses

If we don't pick one, we're still killing Americans, but they seem to reproduce faster than they die off.

#3 is by far the cheapest option and has the most immediate benefits:

-keeps new drivers off the roads until they can pass the new rigorous training
-creates thousands of new jobs for the advanced driving instructors that will be required
-allows current drivers in good standing to keep their licenses, but gives them a grace period - perhaps 5-years - in which they will be required to complete the new training program, or their licenses are revoked.

The drawbacks?

-longer lines at the DMV
-people will complain about their "freedom" to drive being restricted, but everyone already knows it's a privilage, not a right!

...

[Tave]

I don't think anyone's complaining about crashing into lane campers.  If they are, they're dumb.  But again, it's about lane campers making the road more dangerous from congesting and wasting our time.

The argument originated because someone said it's all-right to tailgate a lane-camper. Ifcar and Cougs were pointed out that makes the situation worse.

Here you have a dangerous driver (camping) + another dangerous driver (tailgater)

Such a response cannot be the best decision.

[NomisR]

If you say they're making the road dangerous, then I assume you're referring to some type of accident.

Making the roads dangerous doesn't mean there has to be an accident to occur but when you have a road where you cannot change lanes because all the lanes are driving the same speed, everyone is spaced out safely between one car and another but would be too dangerous for one car to move from one lane to the next because it's still too close for a lane change.  Does that make sense?

Either way, regardless of tailgating, lane camping still makes the road dangerous for everyone else behind the lane camper, that's my only point.  I'm not for or against tailgating but it's still given that lane camping is dangerous. 

[NomisR]

The argument originated because someone said it's all-right to tailgate a lane-camper. Ifcar and Cougs were pointed out that makes the situation worse.

Here you have a dangerous driver (camping) + another dangerous driver (tailgater)

Such a response cannot be the best decision.

It's a cause an effect though, tailgaters do not cause lane camping but lane camping causes people to tailgate.  So if it were not for lane campers, there would be less tailgaters.  And I am only generalizing the situation here..