GTR Merged Thread (2013 GT-R specs/video, 545hp, revised chassis, sub 7:20 Ring)

[2o6]

Compared to an imaginary-like equipped altima it is not heavy but at 3850 lbs, it is seriously a heavyweight compared to its competition such as the ZO6 or the 911 turbo.

They needed to spend more on weight savings.

First of all, the Skyline GT-R is NOT ALTIMA BASED. The Altima Is D-platform Based. The GT-R is PM platform based, which is dreived from the FM platform, the same one that underpins the Nissan Fuga and Infiniti G35.

[NomisR]

Fuga?

[2o6]

Fuga?

Infiniti M.

[SVT666]

Infiniti M.

Then just say Infinity M instead of calling it what it's called overseas.

[Vinsanity]

Then just say Infinity M instead of calling it what it's called overseas.

but it makes him feel smart

[SVT666]

but it makes him feel smart

People who refer to BMW's by E this and E that pisses me off too because I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.  I have to go and look them up on google to know what they look like.  Just call it and 2002 325i or a 1998 740iL.  I know what those are.  I know I've been guilty of calling different generation Mustangs by Fox, SN95, or S197 but 95% of the time I call it 1996 Mustang, 2005+ Mustang, or 1992 Mustang so that non-Mustang fans will know what I'm talking about.

[Raza]

People who refer to BMW's by E this and E that pisses me off too because I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.  I have to go and look them up on google to know what they look like.  Just call it and 2002 325i or a 1998 740iL.  I know what those are.  I know I've been guilty of calling different generation Mustangs by Fox, SN95, or S197 but 95% of the time I call it 1996 Mustang, 2005+ Mustang, or 1992 Mustang so that non-Mustang fans will know what I'm talking about.

Do you know offhand what a 1996 BMW 5 series looks like?  If someone said that, I would guess E34, but I'd have to go look it up.  And if I did go look it up, I'd find out that it wasn't an E34.  If someone said E39, I'd know exactly what they were talking about.

[LonghornTX]

I find it odd that the GT-R is the same size as a GT500, is saddled with AWD and turbo's and still weighs less than the GT500. What did ford do to that poor mustang.

That poor Mustang is a significantly cheaper car (by MSRP), by some 20K.  That buys a lot of light weight material.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see that this was answered already.

[LonghornTX]

Do you know offhand what a 1996 BMW 5 series looks like?  If someone said that, I would guess E34, but I'd have to go look it up.  And if I did go look it up, I'd find out that it wasn't an E34.  If someone said E39, I'd know exactly what they were talking about.

Exactly.  It is not hard to learn the designations and if you do not want to do that, google pictures takes about ~10 seconds.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The GT-R isn't altima based!!!!!!

This is so confusing.

I don't have any problem with people using chassis codes, when you have the extensive automotive knowledge that i do you know exactly what people are talking about when they say E45 or 46 and little things like the minor changes between the E22 and facelifted E50's.

[NomisR]

That poor Mustang is a significantly cheaper car (by MSRP), by some 20K.  That buys a lot of light weight material.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see that this was answered already.

How expensive is aluminum compared to steel anyways?  We use them to hold our softdrinks, and are $0.05 a piece to recycle.  I'd think it's pretty cheap, would that save a lot of weight on the mustang?

[Vinsanity]

How expensive is aluminum compared to steel anyways?  We use them to hold our softdrinks, and are $0.05 a piece to recycle.  I'd think it's pretty cheap, would that save a lot of weight on the mustang?

Aluminum is a PITA for bodywork repair (or so I hear). Which in turn affects insurance premiums...

[2o6]

Then just say Infinity M instead of calling it what it's called overseas.

You spelled Infiniti Wrong.

[2o6]

People who refer to BMW's by E this and E that pisses me off too because I have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.  I have to go and look them up on google to know what they look like.  Just call it and 2002 325i or a 1998 740iL.  I know what those are.  I know I've been guilty of calling different generation Mustangs by Fox, SN95, or S197 but 95% of the time I call it 1996 Mustang, 2005+ Mustang, or 1992 Mustang so that non-Mustang fans will know what I'm talking about.

So? Did I do that? I called it the Nissan Fuga. I did not use an engine code or Chassis nuiumbver

[Eye of the Tiger]

You spelled Infiniti Wrong.

You spelled ∞ wrong 

[2o6]

Also, the Fuga came first. I call the car by which model came first.

[SVT666]

You spelled Infiniti Wrong.

Your capitalization stinks.

[LonghornTX]

How expensive is aluminum compared to steel anyways?  We use them to hold our softdrinks, and are $0.05 a piece to recycle.  I'd think it's pretty cheap, would that save a lot of weight on the mustang?

For the quality of aluminum needed in certain automotive applications, it definitely is more expensive.  In this case, the GT500 does not use aluminum suspension and drivetrain components, like the GT-R probably does.  An aluminum DS on a GT500 cuts almost 30lbs alone.  Suspension arms, another 10lbs.  Little things like that add up, in both weight reduction and cost.

[GoCougs]

Aluminum is not only more expensive to purchase, but also more expensive to work with and finish.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I have a 5-cent soda can made out of aluminium. If aluminium is so expensive, couldn't they save a little money by making my soda can out of iron or lead?

[565]

I?m so glad someone posted these pictures.  Those suggesting photochop do have a point, something does seem fishy in these pictures.  But it?s not due to photochop, but rather something photographers used long before computers existed.

What we have here is a good old optical illusion.

Optical illusions are powerful tools, capitalizing on the brain?s interpretation of what our eyes see.



This is the famous Ames room, a structure capable of making these two identical twins look vastly different in size by hiding perspective.

What we have here in these GTR photos is something the opposite.  More like this picture here.



This is a case of forced perspective.  The ape at the background appears much larger, though the actual drawn sizes of the apes are identical. Our minds process a depthless 2 dimensional picture into a 3D idea based on a few key features in the picture,  namely the overlap of foreground objects over the background,  visual clues in the backdrop, and the height of the object in the backdrop.  All three features were playing a role in these GTR pictures.  Our minds expect that for two identical objects the one that appears closer should also appear larger.  If you can make the object  behind somehow appear farther without changing its visual size, you will also create the illusion of the farther object being larger.

First off the R34 clearly overlaps the R35, giving our minds the clear indication that the R34 is in the foreground.  Second the asphalt is largely devoid of telling distance cues.  Third and most importantly the angle of the camera is raised, which makes the R35 appear much higher in the picture than it should, giving the illusion that it?s farther away.  Finally the picture was taken from a bit of a distance so that the perspective difference in size between the closer object and the farther object is very little.

All these things combine to create the illusion that the object behind is much larger, because it appears to be about the same size while looking much farther.  This is also why the EVO appears so much larger than the Supra (which is longer and wider than the EVO).  This is also why every picture is pretty much from similar angles.  This is also why these particular pictures of the R34 and R35 GTR?s are so famous while probably hundreds of other pictures from other angles have been taken (I've seen these pictures on so many forums).

But these things are hard to believe unless we do a bit of measurement in the pictures themselves.  If you measure the width of the front of the R35, it?s only slightly wider than the front of the R34, even though it looks so much wider.  And if you roughly measure the length, they are also very similar.  To save you guys time I went and drew in reference lines.



The two red lines are exactly the same length, I shit you not (go measure them yourself).  You can see that in the picture the R35 red line appears longer than the red line for the R34 even though they are identical (I just copied and pasted from MS Paint).  A similar story unfolds for the green vertical lines.  Forced perspective at work.

[Lazerous]

Very well done explanation. Most intriguing, indeed.

It all seems clear now.

[LonghornTX]

Good post.

[the Teuton]

The car doesn't seem quite as big as it did.  It's still huge, though.  Someone needs to come up with a lower suspension for it.

[omicron]

An excellent post, Mr. 565.

[565]

Comes in two parts.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/Search-Results/Video/Features/Nissan-GT-R-vs-Porsche-911-Turbo---part-one/

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/Search-Results/Video/Features/Nissan-GT-R-blasts-around-Rockingham/

M3 cameo was there as well.



Guess who wins.

[LonghornTX]

Duh, GTR.

But, it is definitely interesting to note the driver's comments on the GTR.  I got the impression that he thought it was a slightly duller, less exciting experience.  Though that could just be the effortless speed that it commands on the track, compared to the need to push the 911 to get every ounce out of it.

Despite performances like these, I just can't get super excited about this car.  I think it lies mainly in the looks and the overall execution of the package.  The lack of a proper manual would kill it completely for me...

I would be interested to know which car makes a better GT.  I would figure the 911 would take the fuel economy and comfort marks seeing as how it is lighter and seems to have a softer suspension setup, while the GTR might have a marginally larger back seat.

[565]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/nissan-considering-four-door-gt-r-for-infiniti.html

"Nissan considering four-door GT-R for Infiniti
February 18, 05:28pm EST


Nissan is considering building a four-door version of its GT-R supercar for its Infiniti luxury division, a new report finds. A Nissan official revealed that the Japanese automaker was considering an Infiniti-badged version of the supercar, but this is the first time it's been revealed that the new model could be a four-door sedan.

The new car would be based on the GT-R's Front Midship (FM) platform, but Motor Trend says that the car's architecture would have to be changed so much to accommodate two more doors and a usable backseat that Nissan refers to the Infiniti-badged GT-R's platform internally as Premium Midship (PM).

However, the extended model would still utilize the GT-R's suspension and powertrain mountings, as well as the car's 480 horsepower twin-turbo V6, all-wheel drive and rear-mounted dual-clutch transmission.

But because of the extra two doors, the new car would require new sheetmetal, raising the price of production. If the four-door Infiniti version of the GT-R gets the green light, look for it to command a $3,000 to $5,000 premium over the Nissan version.

The Infiniti version of the GT-R would also give the luxury marque a halo car, and allow it to compete with BMW's M-division and Mercedes-Benz's AMG."

[Cookie Monster]

Wow, it seems that things are really heating up in this segment.

[TheIntrepid]

This could be the G40!