Is there a market for a compact truck?

[ifcar]

Why buy a Civic for 20K when you can get an Accord for 25K? It is the same question.

The Accord does outsell the Civic.

I find it very hard to believe that something like this would not sell.  To reiterate, cities are continuing to densify across the US, increasing traffic congestion.  Combined with the rising fuel prices larger trucks are becoming a less attractive to many consumers, myself included. 

Something like this Dacia Pickup would be an attractive alternative for those of us would would like a truck utility but with more agreeable gas bills and/or a smaller ecological footprint. 

I find the argument that a vehicle like this could not comply with US safety laws to be specious at best, much like the argument that Canadian drugs (available at a fraction of the cost of US pharmaceuticals) were somehow less safe than their US equivalents.  To paraphrase, "Show me the mountains of dead Europeans!"

If they could get it to market in the US and price it under the $12,000 Ranger, it would sell. However, chances are excellent that it is not equipped with the sort of engine American consumers would demand, and it would not at all be unreasonable to suggest that it might not be up to US safety or emissions standards.

[akuma_supreme]

If they could get it to market in the US and price it under the $12,000 Ranger, it would sell. However, chances are excellent that it is not equipped with the sort of engine American consumers would demand, and it would not at all be unreasonable to suggest that it might not be up to US safety or emissions standards.

Why?  Although built and apparently marketed primarily for the Romanian market, given this country's membership in the EU, the Dacia Logan must meet all European Union requirements including safety and emissions regulations.  The differences between EU and US regulations are differences between bureaucratic aesthetics, not their overall effectiveness.  Once again, I paraphrase, "Show me the mountains of dead Europeans!"  A crumplezone is a crumplezone is a crumplezone!

[ifcar]

Why?  Although built and apparently marketed primarily for the Romanian market, given this country's membership in the EU, the Dacia Logan must meet all European Union requirements including safety and emissions regulations.  The differences between EU and US regulations are differences between bureaucratic aesthetics, not their overall effectiveness.  Once again, I paraphrase, "Show me the mountains of dead Europeans!"  A crumplezone is a crumplezone is a crumplezone!

If you're confident enough there, what about the cost of getting a US-size engine? What about the exchange rate? What about the fact that the rest of Europe doesn't seem to want it, for whatever reason?

And what if, even ignoring all those factors, it still can't undercut a conventional pickup in price? Would people buy it? Some, but probably not enough.

[Galaxy]

This is probably more compact, and more basic then some are thinking here but......

[Byteme]

This is proberly more compact, and more basic then some are thinking here but......

Now that's kind of what I was thinking about.

Either that or something about that size but with a seperate cab and bed on a frame.

[93JC]

This is proberly

Probably.

Noticed you've made the same mistake quite a few times in the last few days.

[Galaxy]

Probably.

Noticed you've made the same mistake quite a few times in the last few days.

[nickdrinkwater]

If you're confident enough there, what about the cost of getting a US-size engine? What about the exchange rate? What about the fact that the rest of Europe doesn't seem to want it, for whatever reason?

And what if, even ignoring all those factors, it still can't undercut a conventional pickup in price? Would people buy it? Some, but probably not enough.

Seems like slowly the US market is realising that pointlessly big engines are not the way to go.

Also, there's no reason why a car like that would have to come from Europe.  Ford is building the Transit Connect in the US, no reason why they couldn't do a small pickup as well.

Your third point, you can't say because there's nothing comparable on the market as far as I know.

[ifcar]

We really aren't figuring out that bigger isn't necessarily better, especially when it comes to single-cab trucks, which are rarely sold to independent consumers. Fleets like to err on the side of overkill, it seems.

[nickdrinkwater]

We really aren't figuring out that bigger isn't necessarily better, especially when it comes to single-cab trucks, which are rarely sold to independent consumers. Fleets like to err on the side of overkill, it seems.

Ah, I see.

Is the F150 still really popular in the USA?  I remember reading some time ago it was the best selling vehicle by far.

[ifcar]

Ah, I see.

Is the F150 still really popular in the USA?  I remember reading some time ago it was the best selling vehicle by far.

Yes, the F-Series ridiculously popular. Although the gap has narrowed between the best-selling trucks and the best-selling cars, there's still a margin of nearly 220,000 annual sales between it and the best-selling passenger car (Camry).

When the F-150 was new, Ford sold nearly a million F-Series trucks in one year in the US.

[akuma_supreme]

Yes, the F-Series ridiculously popular. Although the gap has narrowed between the best-selling trucks and the best-selling cars, there's still a margin of nearly 220,000 annual sales between it and the best-selling passenger car (Camry).

When the F-150 was new, Ford sold nearly a million F-Series trucks in one year in the US.

And how many of those F-series trucks are sold to fleets?  You're undermining your own statements. 

[ifcar]

And how many of those F-series trucks are sold to fleets?  You're undermining your own statements. 

I don't think so.

1. Regular cab trucks go primarily to fleets
2. Price is key to fleet customers, and fleet truck buyers tend to buy bigger than they need rather than risking getting something that's too small.
3. F-Series is a large pickup that offers popular regular cab models, and its sales are the highest of any vehicle in the country.

[280Z Turbo]

The Accord does outsell the Civic.

If they could get it to market in the US and price it under the $12,000 Ranger, it would sell. However, chances are excellent that it is not equipped with the sort of engine American consumers would demand, and it would not at all be unreasonable to suggest that it might not be up to US safety or emissions standards.

Where do you get "$12,000" for a Ranger. IIRC, even the white paint and vinyl XL model is $14K.

I was thinking last night about what the cheapest possible way to make the old Ranger more appealing and I think they should shoe-horn a 4.6L V8 in there. A big part of the Dakota's appeal is the available V8 engine, so I wonder if the Ranger could capitalize on that.

They should really drop the 3.0, IMO. It's a useless hunk of junk that barely makes more power than the 2.3 and sucks a lot more gas.

[ifcar]

I was going by estimated transaction price rather than sticker for the Ranger, and $12,000 is a conservative estimate. I know that the state of Maryland has a fleet contract that gets 3.0-liter Rangers (I think even with A/C) for $9900.

[akuma_supreme]

I don't think so.

2. Price is key to fleet customers, and fleet truck buyers tend to buy bigger than they need rather than risking getting something that's too small.

What?  And what do all these over-sized trucks run on?  Fairy-Dust?  An F-Series pickup is also going to be more expensive to maintain than a smaller minitruck. 

Go to the administrative hub of any large city or university, and the place will be crawling with mini-trucks.

Using your logic then all rental company fleets would be stocked solely with full-sized sedans and SUVs, less they "run-out" of these models.

[ifcar]

I'm not talking about rental fleets, but the fleets that are most commonly made up of trucks. Construction and the like. They go for the most truck for the least amount of money. At $10,000, a Ranger is a lot of truck, even at a higher fuel expense. A presumably pricier and less capable vehicle would be a niche player; a 10,000 Dodge Sprinters sold against the hundreds of thousands of Econolines.

[The Pirate]

What?  And what do all these over-sized trucks run on?  Fairy-Dust?  An F-Series pickup is also going to be more expensive to maintain than a smaller minitruck. 

Go to the administrative hub of any large city or university, and the place will be crawling with mini-trucks.

Using your logic then all rental company fleets would be stocked solely with full-sized sedans and SUVs, less they "run-out" of these models.

Every school I've ever been to (attended and visited) used full size regular cab or extended cab trucks, usually with long beds.

Small trucks are gaining popularity with the utility, phone and cable companies, but they still maintain a fleet of full-sizers as well.

[akuma_supreme]

Every school I've ever been to (attended and visited) used full size regular cab or extended cab trucks, usually with long beds.

Small trucks are gaining popularity with the utility, phone and cable companies, but they still maintain a fleet of full-sizers as well.

At UofA and ASU both their fleets seem to be evenly divided between Ranger/S10/Colorado-sized minitrucks, and small domestic sedans like the Cavalier, Focus or Cobalt.  The same is true for Phoenix's fleet of city vehicles.  If there are larger trucks, then they tend to be specialized HD models with custom beds (ie flatbeds, boxbeds, etc.)

I will agree that construction companies will usually purchase larger vehicles, however they tend to go one size larger and favor HD pickups (Superduty, and the 2500/2500 class).

[ifcar]

And nowhere in that market to I see a demand for a truck that's pricier but less capable than a Ranger or Colorado. The extra creature comforts would appeal most to the sort of people unlikely to buy a regular-cab model.

[280Z Turbo]

And nowhere in that market to I see a demand for a truck that's pricier but less capable than a Ranger or Colorado. The extra creature comforts would appeal most to the sort of people unlikely to buy a regular-cab model.

I am wondering how long they can make the Ranger last. Most of the truck is from the mid-late 90's, but IIRC there are bits that go back to the 1983 model!

[ifcar]

I am wondering how long they can make the Ranger last. Most of the truck is from the mid-late 90's, but IIRC there are bits that go back to the 1983 model!

It surely can't cost much to make it any more. And for all its modernity, the Colorado isn't a particularly compelling alternative.

[3.0L V6]

Where do you get "$12,000" for a Ranger. IIRC, even the white paint and vinyl XL model is $14K.

I was thinking last night about what the cheapest possible way to make the old Ranger more appealing and I think they should shoe-horn a 4.6L V8 in there. A big part of the Dakota's appeal is the available V8 engine, so I wonder if the Ranger could capitalize on that.

They should really drop the 3.0, IMO. It's a useless hunk of junk that barely makes more power than the 2.3 and sucks a lot more gas.

The 3.0 engine is gone as of this year. Just the 2.3 and 4.0 left

[Byteme]

And nowhere in that market to I see a demand for a truck that's pricier but less capable than a Ranger or Colorado. The extra creature comforts would appeal most to the sort of people unlikely to buy a regular-cab model.

At some point in time fuel costs are going to enter the picture and make a more compact truck a more viable alternative.

[ifcar]

At some point in time fuel costs are going to enter the picture and make a more compact truck a more viable alternative.

You mean the way the Sprinter's ridiculously high gas mileage won more than a niche section of the full-size van market?

[280Z Turbo]

The 3.0 engine is gone as of this year. Just the 2.3 and 4.0 left

Nope. Ford still lists it as being available on their 2008.

[The Pirate]

Nope. Ford still lists it as being available on their 2008.

I think he means this current year is the last year for it.  Meaning, it's gone in 2009.

[akuma_supreme]

You mean the way the Sprinter's ridiculously high gas mileage won more than a niche section of the full-size van market?

The Sprinter costs more than the Econoline.  If the Sprinter was priced similarly, then it would be more popular with fleets.

[ifcar]

The Sprinter costs more than the Econoline.  If the Sprinter was priced similarly, then it would be more popular with fleets.

And if this new smaller-than-Ranger pickup would be sold at Ranger prices, it would have a fighting chance. But I don't think that's feasible.

[Soup DeVille]

You mean the way the Sprinter's ridiculously high gas mileage won more than a niche section of the full-size van market?

The Sprinter's not compact, and it certainly isn't priced like a compact.