EVO magazine Z06 vs R8 vs GT3 vs GT-R, SCANS up

[FlatBlackCaddy]

You know all this talk about sharing a GTR makes one wonder how wonderful it would be to have an affordable time sharing service for semi affordable sports cars.  We've all heard about those supercar clubs that stock high priced exotics with a team of dedicated mechanics and a luxury spa and racetrack with a huge huge price to boot.  What about a cheaper version for the average Joe stocking affordable performance cars like Corvette's, Miata's, S2000's, EVO's etc etc.  Owning the same sports car gets a bit boring after a while, and if you have a large collection of cars, you can't really use all of them at once.  I would be great the cycle through 10-15 affordable sports cars throughout the year.

Yup, would be a great concept if it were locally based. Really the only people/business in place for something like this would be a rental car company. If hertz had a Leasure club that had a monthly membership and allowed said members to reserve certain cars in advance for a few days of driving enjoyment. The cars wouldn't have to be too exotic. The average enthusiast would be happy with a choice of 350Z's, S2000's, STI's, base 911's, cayman's, audi S cars, etc.

If you want to start a company 565 count me in, but you need alot of spread out locations to make it work(or start in a high demand area like NY or california).

[Cookie Monster]

The Z06 looks like a toy car next to the GT-R on pg 77.
I know the Z06 is further back, but still.

[LonghornTX]

Just skimming, they say that the R8 has better feedback and the GT3 is more fun.  All comments about the GT-R I saw are related to how fast it is. 



The Z06 managed to hit 60mph in 3.1 seconds.  I wouldn't really care about that extra .1 second.

Yea, it basically seemed to always come down to something trivial to make the GT-R win.  The Z06 was faster past 70mph and would have likely dominated in a 0-150-0 race.  The R8 was more exotic, more involved, more refined, and better sounding, yet it lost as a road runner because it couldn't be pushed as hard on public roads?  Should that even be the goal? The GT3 is described as a more entertaining experience on track and something of a more ethereal experience, yet it loses to a car which is described in length as benefitting (and really defying expectations) because of the sheer amount of technology it uses and because.

Jack of all trades is a master of none and this article makes it very clear; I would not spend that kind of money for a GT-R.  It is rather ugly to me, far too automated, and lacking any kind of discernible soul to my senses.

I can see the appeal of the car, though.  It is just not my thing

[Raza]

Yea, it basically seemed to always come down to something trivial to make the GT-R win.  The Z06 was faster past 70mph and would have likely dominated in a 0-150-0 race.  The R8 was more exotic, more involved, more refined, and better sounding, yet it lost as a road runner because it couldn't be pushed as hard on public roads?  Should that even be the goal? The GT3 is described as a more entertaining experience on track and something of a more ethereal experience, yet it loses to a car which is described in length as benefitting (and really defying expectations) because of the sheer amount of technology it uses and because.

Jack of all trades is a master of none and this article makes it very clear; I would not spend that kind of money for a GT-R.  It is rather ugly to me, far too automated, and lacking any kind of discernible soul to my senses.

I can see the appeal of the car, though.  It is just not my thing

With better reaction time (which is the fuzziest part of a 0-xmph-0 run) the Z06 would have been, no doubt, significantly quicker. 

[565]

The R8 was more exotic, more involved, more refined, and better sounding, yet it lost as a road runner because it couldn't be pushed as hard on public roads?  Should that even be the goal?

The R8 lost simply because of the reasons they stated in the article.

"it?s V8 felt weedy"
"the manual transmission was clumsy"
"it?s steering is not as instantly responsive"
"its brakes lack instant bite of the GTR,
the chassis feels elastic compared to the GTR"
"the entire car feels an entire generation older than the GTR", which by comparision "doesn?t have a millimeter of slack."

A good sounding engine and decent organic ride can't save it from all those flaws.

I dunno if we are reading the same article here, because EVO makes sure to mention the GT-R is not a disconnected or soulless experience.  The HUGE print on the article clearly states "There's not a millimetre of slack in the GT-R leaving you feeling completely connected."  I dunno how much more clear about not being disconnected one could be.  At the end of the article EVO also clarifies it's fun and involving and while not as tactile as the GT3, it's far from numb, far from inert.  I don't think a single review has ever described the GTR as soulness or disconnected , so I don't know where everyone is inferring this from.

Seriously to say that it's a jack of all trades master of none is hardly fair, as it just matched or soundly beat three masters at their own trades.  It's established itself as a Master of all Trades.

[LonghornTX]

The R8 lost simply because of the reasons they stated in the article.

"it?s V8 felt weedy"
"the manual transmission was clumsy"
"it?s steering is not as instantly responsive"
"its brakes lack instant bite of the GTR,
the chassis feels elastic compared to the GTR"
"the entire car feels an entire generation older than the GTR", which by comparision "doesn?t have a millimeter of slack."

A good sounding engine and decent organic ride can't save it from all those flaws.

I dunno if we are reading the same article here, because EVO makes sure to mention the GT-R is not a disconnected or soulless experience.  The HUGE print on the article clearly states "There's not a millimetre of slack in the GT-R leaving you feeling completely connected."  I dunno how much more clear about not being disconnected one could be.  At the end of the article EVO also clarifies it's fun and involving and while not as tactile as the GT3, it's far from numb, far from inert.  I don't think a single review has ever described the GTR as soulness or disconnected , so I don't know where everyone is inferring this from.

Seriously to say that it's a jack of all trades master of none is hardly fair, as it just matched or soundly beat three masters at their own trades.  It's established itself as a Master of all Trades.

I think your interpretation of the article is somewhat biased, I feel, by your rampant enthusiasm for the car.

Use critical reading skills, and it is pretty obvious, the only reason the GT-R beat the R8, was because of the author's preference for outright speed and not the quality of the experience.  That section focused on how much faster the GT-R could pull away on narrow british roads, or how much distance the car put on the R8 when throttled in a straight line

The Z06 walks away past 70mph and the only reason reason the GT-R had even a chance is because of the cars vast electronic array.

The GT3 is obviously the better track car, if you are looking for entertainment, experience, and involvement, according to all the articles you seem to have posted so far.

Basically, the GT-R was put in a situation where the way the article was written or the feelings of the author decided the outcome, not some glaring advantage.

The GT-R won a bullshit drag race comparison against the Z06 because the test was limited to a rather measly (for these cars) 100mph.

The GT-R won against the Audi in a GT test because the author preferred the absolute performance of the GT-R compared to the as described more desirable, tactile (though they commented that the GT-R had FASTER steering, they noted the R8 had better feedback), and more refined R8.  Seems like those traits would win out in a street contest, when the experience is the thing being judged and not the absolute rapidity of the exercise.  It is the reason they picked the E30 M3 over the much faster E36 and E46 (and maybe even E92).  This is this same notion that is described in CAR's comparison of the two vehicles. 

The GT3 test, well the same type of logic seems to apply.  Better is faster, even if it means driving a car that is less involving and challenging.

It seems like the author is obsessed with numbers and it seems like what this car is all about to most people.

Granted, none of us have driven these cars.  But, it seems like all the reviews drive home the same point.  This GT-R is a car that achieves great speeds and involvement through the use of thoughtfully engineered subsystems and devices.  It is faster than its peers in many numerical tests, but it seems to lack the interactivity of many of its peers as well.

If they said this car outdid the GT3 in involvement AND the R8 in refinement and poise AND the Z06 in sheer brutal power, I would say this car is a master of all trader.  But that is not the case, and thus my original point stands.

[280Z Turbo]

I can't get excited about the Nissan like I do the Corvette and the Porsche. I don't know why.

[nickdrinkwater]

Sorry to say it, but I think most people's dislike of the GT-R stems from the fact it wears Nissan badges.

When the Audi R8 came out it also caused an upset against the 911 and people were not as negative as they are about the GT-R (which has just bettered the R8).

[sportyaccordy]

Sorry to say it, but I think most people's dislike of the GT-R stems from the fact it wears Nissan badges.

When the Audi R8 came out it also caused an upset against the 911 and people were not as negative as they are about the GT-R (which has just bettered the R8).

I'm not a huge fan of the R8 either. Though I'd go with it over the GT-R, mainly for the MR setup and it's relatively stunning looks.

The GT-R is immensely capable and a technological feat... but it's heavy, ugly and IMO TOO reliant on technology. Rather than start w/a physically flawed car, and have computers sort it out, I'd rather just have the physically ideal car with a good setup.

[565]

I can't believe people are still nitpicking this car, who cares if some other cars are more involving?  You can say that about any car, because there will always be some car that's more involving out there.  "Oh dude this Z06 sucks cause while it's a good performer, that Cayman is more involving".  "Oh dude this Cayman sucks cause that Lotus Elise is more involving."  "Oh dude this Elise sucks because that Caterham is more involving."  The cycle goes on and on.  The 911 GT3 and R8 better be more involving because it's even more physically different from the GT-R than the Caterham is from the Elise, or the Elise is from the Cayman.  Let's step back for a moment. Dude it's a freaking 2+2 AWD all around GT car that laps close to a second faster than a GT3 and only a few tenths from an Enzo, AN ENZO, on freaking run flat tires!!  It's smacking Sir Newton in the face.  F=/=MA for the GT-R.  If I was so hung up over involvement, I'd just get myself a Miata and save myself a ton of money.  What happened to the high performance aspect of the high performance car?  Why did I buy a Z06 and not a Miata?  Performance!  Why does anyone buy any of these cars and not a Miata?   Performance!  The GT-R offers the performance of the GT3 on the track, the performance of the R8 on the road, and almost the performance of the Z06 on the strip, for less money than any of them, and while being in a completely different and traditionally worse performing class.  That's what this test was about. 

If you want to get into subjectives and looks and dynamics, you can go on and on.  I personally think that all 911's look like frogs, and the threat of the rear swinging out all the time is not my idea of a good time.  The Z06 has a frisky rear end and for those of you macho people that think it's the mark of manhood, it's really not. All it really does is ruin a good backroads drive with a tinge of worry.  Nor is a low front end that grounds everywhere really that fun. Nor is a 2 seater only configuration (I've had to stick friends in the trunk at times, so even the tiny rear seats of the GT-R is better).  Nor is it very confident in the rain.  Actually owning a dedicated high performance machine with two seats, low slung body, wide tires, and bite you back handling really disillusions you on the whole experience.  I forgive my Z06 because up until now, if you wanted supercar like performance and didn't want to spend 120K on a 911 Turbo, this was the only way.  If I could get a car with the performance of the Z06 while being practical, I'm there.

The GT-R is a automotive Miracle.  I wouldn't be surprised if it rises from the grave next sunday too. 

[sportyaccordy]

I suppose it's pointless to argue about it. When it comes down to it I just don't like the car. Doesn't represent what I think the driving experience should be about, though it is extremely capable, a great value and a technological feat. Moreso than the Veyron, or any other car in recent memory.

I would still rather have the GT3 though.

[Submariner]

Big deal.  No one complains about Ferrari beating the world with more computers then any other car on the planet.

I do.

[Submariner]

Sorry to say it, but I think most people's dislike of the GT-R stems from the fact it wears Nissan badges.

When the Audi R8 came out it also caused an upset against the 911 and people were not as negative as they are about the GT-R (which has just bettered the R8).

Really?  I loathe everything that wears the bowtie badge, yet I adore the Z06. 

[nickdrinkwater]

I can't believe people are still nitpicking this car, who cares if some other cars are more involving?  You can say that about any car, because there will always be some car that's more involving out there.  "Oh dude this Z06 sucks cause while it's a good performer, that Cayman is more involving".  "Oh dude this Cayman sucks cause that Lotus Elise is more involving."  "Oh dude this Elise sucks because that Caterham is more involving."  The cycle goes on and on.  The 911 GT3 and R8 better be more involving because it's even more physically different from the GT-R than the Caterham is from the Elise, or the Elise is from the Cayman.  Let's step back for a moment. Dude it's a freaking 2+2 AWD all around GT car that laps close to a second faster than a GT3 and only a few tenths from an Enzo, AN ENZO, on freaking run flat tires!!  It's smacking Sir Newton in the face.  F=/=MA for the GT-R.  If I was so hung up over involvement, I'd just get myself a Miata and save myself a ton of money.  What happened to the high performance aspect of the high performance car?  Why did I buy a Z06 and not a Miata?  Performance!  Why does anyone buy any of these cars and not a Miata?   Performance!  The GT-R offers the performance of the GT3 on the track, the performance of the R8 on the road, and almost the performance of the Z06 on the strip, for less money than any of them, and while being in a completely different and traditionally worse performing class.  That's what this test was about. 

If you want to get into subjectives and looks and dynamics, you can go on and on.  I personally think that all 911's look like frogs, and the threat of the rear swinging out all the time is not my idea of a good time.  The Z06 has a frisky rear end and for those of you macho people that think it's the mark of manhood, it's really not. All it really does is ruin a good backroads drive with a tinge of worry.  Nor is a low front end that grounds everywhere really that fun. Nor is a 2 seater only configuration (I've had to stick friends in the trunk at times, so even the tiny rear seats of the GT-R is better).  Nor is it very confident in the rain.  Actually owning a dedicated high performance machine with two seats, low slung body, wide tires, and bite you back handling really disillusions you on the whole experience.  I forgive my Z06 because up until now, if you wanted supercar like performance and didn't want to spend 120K on a 911 Turbo, this was the only way.  If I could get a car with the performance of the Z06 while being practical, I'm there.

The GT-R is a automotive Miracle.  I wouldn't be surprised if it rises from the grave next sunday too. 

I don't normally do this, but "+1".

[Raza]

I do.

I do too.

[Raza]

I don't normally do this, but "+1".

Well, you work for Nissan, so you're biased.  You can't ask a priest if there's a god and expect an honest answer.

[nickdrinkwater]

Well, you work for Nissan, so you're biased.  You can't ask a priest if there's a god and expect an honest answer.

Honestly though, I liked the R34 too.  But I don't like ALL Nissans!

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I have moments of weakness were i think i want to make a run for one of these.

[oilfilter]

The GT-R is Godly. Every single review reinforces this.
The VW Beetle-lovers have no choice but to accept.

I saw what I think was a Red GTR flashing past in the opposite direction on the expressway here a few days ago; a parallel import no doubt, since it's not officially on sale yet. I am sorely tempted to move to the US just to be able to buy this car, since I'll never be able to afford it here if/when it goes on sale here (will cost ~US$250K+)

[oilfilter]

I can't believe people are still nitpicking this car, who cares if some other cars are more involving?  You can say that about any car, because there will always be some car that's more involving out there.  "Oh dude this Z06 sucks cause while it's a good performer, that Cayman is more involving".  "Oh dude this Cayman sucks cause that Lotus Elise is more involving."  "Oh dude this Elise sucks because that Caterham is more involving."  The cycle goes on and on.  The 911 GT3 and R8 better be more involving because it's even more physically different from the GT-R than the Caterham is from the Elise, or the Elise is from the Cayman.  Let's step back for a moment. Dude it's a freaking 2+2 AWD all around GT car that laps close to a second faster than a GT3 and only a few tenths from an Enzo, AN ENZO, on freaking run flat tires!!  It's smacking Sir Newton in the face.  F=/=MA for the GT-R.  If I was so hung up over involvement, I'd just get myself a Miata and save myself a ton of money.  What happened to the high performance aspect of the high performance car?  Why did I buy a Z06 and not a Miata?  Performance!  Why does anyone buy any of these cars and not a Miata?   Performance!  The GT-R offers the performance of the GT3 on the track, the performance of the R8 on the road, and almost the performance of the Z06 on the strip, for less money than any of them, and while being in a completely different and traditionally worse performing class.  That's what this test was about. 

If you want to get into subjectives and looks and dynamics, you can go on and on.  I personally think that all 911's look like frogs, and the threat of the rear swinging out all the time is not my idea of a good time.  The Z06 has a frisky rear end and for those of you macho people that think it's the mark of manhood, it's really not. All it really does is ruin a good backroads drive with a tinge of worry.  Nor is a low front end that grounds everywhere really that fun. Nor is a 2 seater only configuration (I've had to stick friends in the trunk at times, so even the tiny rear seats of the GT-R is better).  Nor is it very confident in the rain.  Actually owning a dedicated high performance machine with two seats, low slung body, wide tires, and bite you back handling really disillusions you on the whole experience.  I forgive my Z06 because up until now, if you wanted supercar like performance and didn't want to spend 120K on a 911 Turbo, this was the only way.  If I could get a car with the performance of the Z06 while being practical, I'm there.

The GT-R is a automotive Miracle.  I wouldn't be surprised if it rises from the grave next sunday too. 

I couldn't have put it better myself. Excellent post.

[GoCougs]

I saw a white GT-R on the road while in Japan. It is a stunning vehicle on looks alone.

[omicron]

I saw a white GT-R on the road while in Japan. It is a stunning vehicle on looks alone.

From the rear, it's just brilliant; those stoveburner taillights are wonderful.

[Middle_Path]

[Eye of the Tiger]

[Middle_Path]

Does it asplode moar now?

[Tave]

I like the stock front-end better, myself.