Did Ford Screw up?

[Yawn]

There has not been any interesting chats lately on here so thought to start one.

In the long run do you think Ford screwed up by selling Jaguar/ Land Rover? Ford invested millions of dollars and lost alot of money with Jaguar, but do you think the turn around time has occurred? They finally created the XF which has been praised all over and seems to be sold out. Do you think the XF is a turning point for great things to come or just a phase?

[SVT666]

There has not been any interesting chats lately on here so thought to start one.

In the long run do you think Ford screwed up by selling Jaguar/ Land Rover? Ford invested millions of dollars and lost alot of money with Jaguar, but do you think the turn around time has occurred? They finally created the XF which has been praised all over and seems to be sold out. Do you think the XF is a turning point for great things to come or just a phase?

I think that if Ford had not sold Jaguar, the XF would have been the turnaround the company desperately needed, but I don't think Tata is going to keep the wave going.  Was it a mistake?  I don't think so.  Ford needed the infusion of cash right now.  They couldn't wait for the fortunes of the company to turn and start the cash flow, they needed money right this minute or else they could have been in a heap of trouble very quickly.  I think they needed to sell Jag, AM, and Land Rover, but it will be a big mistake if they sell Volvo.

[Byteme]

No, I think the sale was the right thing to do.  Ford has admitted they need to focus on their core products; mass market crs and trucks.  Jaguar was simply a drain on money and other corporate resources that could better be used to make the Ford, Mercury and Lincoln lines more profitable.

[FordSVT]

Yeah, don't get me wrong here, I think Ford's purchase of jaguar was probably a good thing. They might have saved the marque, and I'm not so sure that many companies could have turned jag around like Ford did. It's very ironic that Ford tends to steer their smaller brands in a good direction while their core brands often sit in limbo. Most of their vehicles have been great the past 5-10 years and Jaguar's quality ratings have sky-rocketed, while managing to stay true to the Jaguar feel. Market forces, however, have kept Jaguar down while BMW and Merc have continued their domination of this segment. Maybe people aren't as interested in the Jaguar feel and look anymore? Don't know why, Jags have always been beautiful cars (with the exception of maybe the X-type). Their dealer network is rather small as well.

[nickdrinkwater]

I'm surprised they didn't keep Land Rover, even if it is linked strongly to Jaguar as a business.  I'm sure they could have made a lot of money out of the brand if they wanted to.

They kept investing in Jaguar without making any money, so I think selling it was a wise thing to do.  I disagree that Tata will not invest in Jaguar - they are probably in a better position to spend money than Ford were, and the XF shows the brand still has some promise.

[nickdrinkwater]

I think that if Ford had not sold Jaguar, the XF would have been the turnaround the company desperately needed, but I don't think Tata is going to keep the wave going.  Was it a mistake?  I don't think so.  Ford needed the infusion of cash right now.  They couldn't wait for the fortunes of the company to turn and start the cash flow, they needed money right this minute or else they could have been in a heap of trouble very quickly.  I think they needed to sell Jag, AM, and Land Rover, but it will be a big mistake if they sell Volvo.

Volvo hasn't been doing well for a while now.  I think the only reason they're not selling it at the moment is because nobody wants to buy it.

[nickdrinkwater]

No, I think the sale was the right thing to do.  Ford has admitted they need to focus on their core products; mass market crs and trucks.  Jaguar was simply a drain on money and other corporate resources that could better be used to make the Ford, Mercury and Lincoln lines more profitable.

But have the Mercury and Lincoln names been damamged too much to make them credible upmarket brands?

[SVT666]

Volvo hasn't been doing well for a while now.  I think the only reason they're not selling it at the moment is because nobody wants to buy it.

Ford uses a lot of Volvo technology for such things as safety, AWD, and platforms.  The Five Hundred/Taurus, Freestyle/Taurus X, and the new Flex all ride on Volvo platforms.  Volvo has contributed a lot to Ford's current and future cars.

[FoMoJo]

But have the Mercury and Lincoln names been damamged too much to make them credible upmarket brands?

If GM could turn Cadillac around I'm pretty sure that Ford can do the same with Lincoln presuming they can develop the appropriate cars.  There's still a lot of heritage associated with Lincoln in North America.

[SVT666]

First thing is they should get rid of the rediculous naming scheme and go back to the classic naming scheme of Mark VII and Mark VIII.  MKX, MKZ, MKR don't mean shit to anyone and no one knows which one is a car and which one is a crossover.

[omicron]

First thing is they should get rid of the rediculous naming scheme and go back to the classic naming scheme of Mark VII and Mark VIII.  MKX, MKZ, MKR don't mean shit to anyone and no one knows which one is a car and which one is a crossover.

Lincoln have had some excellent names over the years - Continental, Mark Series, Premiere, Capri, Cosmopolitan, Lido, Zephyr et. al.

[FoMoJo]

Lincoln have had some excellent names over the years - Continental, Mark Series, Premiere, Capri, Cosmopolitan, Lido, Zephyr et. al.

They also had some excellent cars...'56 Continental, '63 Continental...they have to get back to making cars of this quality for the modern era.

[Yawn]

The main reason why I thought of creating this subject is that they must have spent a ton on developing the XF and then the month the car is released in the states, Jaguar is no longer theirs..I think Jaguar finally got off their asses not to develop cars based on their old following because its not working anymore. They created more of a product that has more of appeal and this will probably diffuse to their other future products. The same as what they did with Land Rover.

[FordSVT]

But have the Mercury and Lincoln names been damamged too much to make them credible upmarket brands?

If Caddy can do it, so can Lincoln.

Seven or eight years ago, with the success of the Navigator and the then-new Lincoln LS, it was Lincoln the automotive press thought was going to be the break-out marque, not Cadillac.

It's product, product product. And you need rwd cars and solid six and eight cylinder motors. Acura has never gained the prestige that Lexus has, and the fact that their vehicles are all fwd or awd and they put 4 and 6 cylinder engines in all of their cars is a gigantic part of that.

Then again, if Lincoln even managed to gain the kind of success that Acura has, I'd be happy.

[FordSVT]

Volvo hasn't been doing well for a while now.  I think the only reason they're not selling it at the moment is because nobody wants to buy it.

???? Volvo has been the profit engine for Ford's PAG for the past five years. They made a $400 million profit in 2007, and their vehicle lineup might be the best and most expansive they've ever had.

[SVT666]

If Caddy can do it, so can Lincoln.

Seven or eight years ago, with the success of the Navigator and the then-new Lincoln LS, it was Lincoln the automotive press thought was going to be the break-out marque, not Cadillac.

It's product, product product. And you need rwd cars and solid six and eight cylinder motors. Acura has never gained the prestige that Lexus has, and the fact that their vehicles are all fwd or awd and they put 4 and 6 cylinder engines in all of their cars is a gigantic part of that.

Then again, if Lincoln even managed to gain the kind of success that Acura has, I'd be happy.

I agree with your theroy, however the market place is changing and it's changing fast.  V8, RWD sedans are starting to become looked at as evil by a large number of people because of the new Green movement.  It's going to be fashionable, even with luxury cars, to be driving a hybrid twin turbo 2 cylinder.

[MX793]

Volvo hasn't been doing well for a while now.  I think the only reason they're not selling it at the moment is because nobody wants to buy it.

Well, that and the fact that right now, most of Ford's car platforms worldwide have a heavy infusion of Volvo engineering.  The only platforms I can think of that didn't have much Volvo involvement are the S197 and the CD3 (Ford's North American midsize platform, which was primarily developed by Mazda).

[CALL_911]

I agree with your theroy, however the market place is changing and it's changing fast.  V8, RWD sedans are starting to become looked at as evil by a large number of people because of the new Green movement.  It's going to be fashionable, even with luxury cars, to be driving a hybrid twin turbo 2 cylinder.

Dodge had a really clever ad a while ago. "The Charger Hybrid. It burns gas and rubber". I liked that one a lot.

[FordSVT]

I agree with your theroy, however the market place is changing and it's changing fast.  V8, RWD sedans are starting to become looked at as evil by a large number of people because of the new Green movement.  It's going to be fashionable, even with luxury cars, to be driving a hybrid twin turbo 2 cylinder.

True to some degree, but I'm speaking mostly of the power issue, not necessarily the cylinder count. The most powerful Acura only has 300 hp, and that's just recently. And they're all fwd except for the RL, which is awd.