What I would like to see....

Started by mojammer, June 16, 2008, 05:23:45 PM

mojammer

I think it'd be great if companies made basic versions of their sport sedans/cars.  For example, take a 1-series, remove the 12-subwoofer, 47-speaker sound system, the power seats, put in basic cloth seats, approx 200hp 4 cylinder, a light 5 speed tranny, small 16 or so inch wheels and tires. 

Or for toyota, take the last gen IS300, put in a 4 cyl, etc etc all the same.

And do it all for about 20k.  That'd bee pretty sweet in my book.

Cookie Monster

RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

CALL_911

That is what I would like to see as well.

I wish BMW made the 320si as a regular production model, and sold it here.


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

Raza

We'd all like to see it.  But the people who can afford to buy cars like that don't want to give up their stereo and leather to save .1 of a second at the racetracks they never go to.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PMIt's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Cookie Monster

Quote from: Raza  on June 16, 2008, 05:54:15 PM
We'd all like to see it.  But the people who can afford to buy cars like that don't want to give up their stereo and leather to save .1 of a second at the racetracks they never go to.
Maybe they'd like to give it up for the $10-15k they'd save?
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

Raza

Quote from: thecarnut on June 16, 2008, 05:59:29 PM
Maybe they'd like to give it up for the $10-15k they'd save?

What 10-15K?  You really think pulling stuff out and putting in cheaper seats (albeit bespoke) and no sound system they're going to cut the cost on what will likely be a very low volume car?

Does the GT3 RS cost less than the GT3? 
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PMIt's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Eye of the Tiger

It's the government's fault for making all the safety standards.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

MX793

It would cheapen the brand.  A big part of the appeal of a BMW or Lexus is the premium badge and the exclusivity that comes with it.

Now if they wanted to spin off a cheaper brand name with models that are essentially decontented versions of their normal cars with perhaps some different styling (or in Lexus' case, sell it as a Toyota)....
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Vinsanity

I think a 128i with no options would be as basic as buyers are willing to accept before they'd rather go the fully-equipped Camcord route. Maybe save a grand or so off the cost/selling price by downgrading to a more basic stereo, but that would be about it.

sportyaccordy

Quote from: Raza  on June 16, 2008, 05:54:15 PM
We'd all like to see it.  But the people who can afford to buy cars like that don't want to give up their stereo and leather to save .1 of a second at the racetracks they never go to.
Personally, I think there is a lot of romanticism of the 'track ready daily driver' on this board. Especially considering most people here will never, ever, ever, ever even come close to a race track with their car.

I think BMW should continue to load their cars up with all the features they can cram into them. They are still excellent drivers' cars, and whenever a new version of something like the 3 comes out, the generation that came before it always takes a huge hit on the used car market.

Why pay 20-25K for a bare bones 3 with a 2.0L 4 banger when you could buy a used 330i and build something way wilder than anything BMW could have allowed to come out of it's factory?

They have to make money.

the Teuton

The base 135i comes pretty damn close to your wish. 

I wish it had cloth seats instead of vinyl, but it does have manual seats.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

CALL_911

Quote from: the Teuton on June 16, 2008, 10:10:19 PM
The base 135i comes pretty damn close to your wish. 

I wish it had cloth seats instead of vinyl, but it does have manual seats.

Uh, dude, the 128i and the 328i start out the same way, and I'm pretty sure a 335i stripper does too. Hell, leatherette is an option on the 535.


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

the Teuton

Quote from: CALL_911 on June 16, 2008, 10:15:17 PM
Uh, dude, the 128i and the 328i start out the same way, and I'm pretty sure a 335i stripper does too. Hell, leatherette is an option on the 535.

the 35s have xenon headlights and a few more standard features (come to think of it, power seats), but the 28s are basically strippers.  You're right.

Funny story really quick, one of the salespeople came into the through-way and asked another plebe like me to find a demo or loaner X3 with leatherette seats so they could show a perspective buyer.  The person said, "What kind of seats?"

I answered to him, "She wants one with vinyl seats -- not leather."  He just said, "Oh, there's one right over there.  I'll get it."

Most people have no idea what "leatherette" seats are.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

CALL_911

Quote from: the Teuton on June 16, 2008, 10:26:29 PM
the 35s have xenon headlights and a few more standard features (come to think of it, power seats), but the 28s are basically strippers.  You're right.

Funny story really quick, one of the salespeople came into the through-way and asked another plebe like me to find a demo or loaner X3 with leatherette seats so they could show a perspective buyer.  The person said, "What kind of seats?"

I answered to him, "She wants one with vinyl seats -- not leather."  He just said, "Oh, there's one right over there.  I'll get it."

Most people have no idea what "leatherette" seats are.

Honestly, leatherette is pretty damn good. I know that I wouldn't mind it in my BMW, if I had one.


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

Raza

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PMIt's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

MX793

Quote from: CALL_911 on June 16, 2008, 10:15:17 PM
Uh, dude, the 128i and the 328i start out the same way, and I'm pretty sure a 335i stripper does too. Hell, leatherette is an option on the 535.

The 128 is hardly stripped even in base form with no options.  The 128i has a standard power moonroof, 10 speaker stereo, auto climate control, power heated mirrors, and heated water jets as standard.  If that's you're idea of a stripped down car, I'm jealous.  My last car had no power accessories (crank windows, manual locks, manual mirrors), no cruise control, no safety features save seatbelts and a 4 speaker stereo.  My one creature comfort besides the radio was air conditioning.

Ditch the standard moonroof, switch to manual HVAC, a 6 speaker stereo and non-heated mirrors and I'm sure you could lop a couple of grand off of the starting price of the 128 and the experience would still hardly be "roughing it".
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

ifcar

The thing is that the manufacturers make their money on the options. Take away the options and they lose the $1,000 extra they charge for a stereo that can't cost them more than a hundred, and so forth. BMW has no incentive to do something like that; in fact, just the opposite.

CALL_911

Quote from: MX793 on June 17, 2008, 07:07:08 PM
The 128 is hardly stripped even in base form with no options.  The 128i has a standard power moonroof, 10 speaker stereo, auto climate control, power heated mirrors, and heated water jets as standard.  If that's you're idea of a stripped down car, I'm jealous.  My last car had no power accessories (crank windows, manual locks, manual mirrors), no cruise control, no safety features save seatbelts and a 4 speaker stereo.  My one creature comfort besides the radio was air conditioning.

Ditch the standard moonroof, switch to manual HVAC, a 6 speaker stereo and non-heated mirrors and I'm sure you could lop a couple of grand off of the starting price of the 128 and the experience would still hardly be "roughing it".

Agree.


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

the Teuton

Quote from: Raza  on June 16, 2008, 10:48:58 PM
Prospective, fool!

My bad.

Back on topic --

A Clubsport 135i will never happen.  BMW is a luxury performance brand.  They'll start selling strippers at a discount about the same time that Ford starts selling stripped versions of the GT500 for $30,000.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

cawimmer430

Everyone here is talking about the 128i and 135i but even a normal 118i sedan is pretty agile!  :praise:

Even with an automatic transmission.  :cry:
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

ifcar

Everyone is talking about the 128i and 135i because those are the only models sold in the United States.

sportyaccordy

You would save more buying the car used w/all the features than buying it brand new with everything removed. What is the allure of buying new? What is the allure of a BMW equipped like a Geo Metro? I don't understand.

GoCougs

Automakers such as BWM, Lexus, et al. don't offer those stripper versions because they wouldn't sell well.

I also doubt that automakers could ever sell for a profit an IS, 1-series, C-class, etc., for $20k no matter how much it was stripped it.

nickdrinkwater

Quote from: sportyaccordy on June 18, 2008, 06:32:49 AM
You would save more buying the car used w/all the features than buying it brand new with everything removed. What is the allure of buying new? What is the allure of a BMW equipped like a Geo Metro? I don't understand.

People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

cawimmer430

Quote from: ifcar on June 18, 2008, 05:34:08 AM
Everyone is talking about the 128i and 135i because those are the only models sold in the United States.

I realize that. I am just mentioning my experiences with a dealer 118i (pre-facelift, 5-speed M/T) and my sisters 118i 6-speed A/T. The 118i is still a fun car and the performance is really awesome. I don't see how anyone could fault it.  :ohyeah:  :huh:
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

cawimmer430

Quote from: nickdrinkwater on June 18, 2008, 07:37:03 AM
People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

Ding Ding!

Once again!


"People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for."

:praise:

-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
www.wimmerfotografie.de
www.facebook.com/wimmerfotografie

Vinsanity

Quote from: nickdrinkwater on June 18, 2008, 07:37:03 AM
People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

The same could be said about people who buy Camry LE's and Accord LX's in America. If they're going to skimp on the gadgets, why pay extra for the badge?

nickdrinkwater

Quote from: Vinsanity on June 18, 2008, 11:06:00 AM
The same could be said about people who buy Camry LE's and Accord LX's in America. If they're going to skimp on the gadgets, why pay extra for the badge?

Because a Camry or Accord is built better, drives better, rides better or is more reliable than their competitors?  The same logic still applies.

By the way, I've not sat inside or ridden in either car so I'm just speculating.

Vinsanity

Quote from: nickdrinkwater on June 18, 2008, 11:12:56 AM
Because a Camry or Accord is built better, drives better, rides better or is more reliable than their competitors?  The same logic still applies.

By the way, I've not sat inside or ridden in either car so I'm just speculating.

I meant in comparison to a stripper 1-series. If people wanted to save money foregoing gadgets they won't use, they'll save at least as much money buying a mainstream car instead of a premium-branded one.

sportyaccordy

Quote from: nickdrinkwater on June 18, 2008, 07:37:03 AM
People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.
A 2-3 year old BMW is just as good as a brand new one. HAving leather and sunroof won't kill you.