Toyota Recalls 345,000 Sienna Minivans

[BMWDave]

Toyota Recalls 345,000 Sienna Minivans
Date Posted 07-21-2005

TORRANCE, California ? Toyota Motor Co. has said it is recalling 345,000 Sienna minivans to repair seatbelts that may become difficult to retract when unbuckled.

The recall covers vehicles from model-years 2004 and 2005. Toyota said it has received 14 complaints, but no reports of accidents or injuries.

According to the company, the shoulder portion of the middle-row seatbelt may get stuck in a plastic guide. Customers will be notified beginning in mid-August.

What this means to you: Toyota is starting to feel the effects of being a truly major source of cars in America where even small problems can provoke massive recalls

[ifcar]

Starting to feel the effects of selling cars in high volume?

The Camry has been on the best-seller list for 15 years, and they've sold millions of Corollas here as well. And they've had recalls before, too.  

[Raghavan]

no biggy. it's not a safety problem, just a minor inconvienience.

[bobwill]

So, the seatbelt like gets tangled up in a plastic guide?  That's probably the funniest recall I've read about.  I wonder if this was voluntary or if the NHTSA ordered it.

[TBR]

Most likely ordered, that is what it takes to get Toyota to admit they did something wrong.  

[ifcar]

Unless you're joking, prove it.  

[bobwill]

I would normally post only after I came away with evidence.  But, I'm in a post-whoring mood. :)  So, I'll post my intentions of going to the NHTSA and look up any defect investigations and the exact wording of their summary of the recall.

[bobwill]

Wow, this seems to be NHTSA mandated!

ODI RECEIVED TEN CONSUMER COMPLAINTS ALLEGING THAT THE MIDDLE-ROW PASSENGER SEATBELT WEBBING FREQUENTLY JAMS IN THE INTEGRATED SEATBELT GUIDE HOUSING SLOT. DURING NORMAL BODY MOVEMENT OF THE OCCUPANT, THE WEBBING JAMS IN THE SLOT DUE TO A DISLODGED COVER PLATE, THUS CAUSING EXCESS SLACK IN THE SEATBELT ASSEMBLY. TOYOTA’S LETTER RESPONSE TO THE AGENCY IDENTIFIES 40 OTHER CONSUMER AND FIELD REPORTS AND 3,073 WARRANTY REPAIRS THAT REQUIRE THE REPLACEMENT OF THE SEATBELT GUIDE ASSEMBLY. IN ADDITION, THERE ARE ANOTHER 16 WARRANTY CLAIMS ON MY 2005 SIENNA VEHICLES. COMPLAINANTS EXPRESSED CONCERN FOR CHILDREN OCCUPYING THE MIDDLE-ROW SEATS. THEY MAY NOT RECOGNIZE THE POTENTIAL SAFETY RISK OR BE ABLE TO REMEDY A SLACK SEATBELT. A SLACK OR JAMMED SEATBELT DOES NOT OFFER PROPER OCCUPANT PROTECTION IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH. TOYOTA HAS IMPLEMENTED A RECENT DESIGN CHANGE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM. TOYOTA WILL APPLY THE DESIGN CHANGE TO NEW PRODUCTION VEHICLES AND ALTHOUGH THE DESIGN CAN BE APPLIED TO EARLIER MY 2004 AND 2005 VEHICLES, TOYOTA HAS NOT ANNOUNCED A SAFETY RECALL FOR THOSE VEHICLES. THIS INVESTIGATION IS UPGRADED TO AN ENGINEERING ANALYSIS (EA05-010) AND WILL INCLUDE MY 2005 VEHICLES.

Make:  TOYOTA 
Model:  SIENNA 
Type:  PASSENGER CAR 
Year:  2005 
Recall Number:  05V327000 
Summary:   
ON CERTAIN MINI VANS, IN THE MIDDLE ROW SEATING POSITION, THE SHOULDER PORTION OF THE SEAT BELT MAY BIND IN THE BEZEL TRIM PIECE. THE AFFECTED SEAT BELT BEZEL IS LOCATED ON THE SHOULDER PORTION OF THE SEAT IN THE RIGHT SIDE SEAT OF THE SEVEN PASSENGER MODELS AND THE CENTER SEATING POSITION IN THE EIGHT PASSENGER MODELS. 
Consequence:   
IF THE SEAT BELT BINDS IN THE BEZEL, THAT EXTRA WEBBING MAY EXIST IN THE SEAT BELT WHICH COULD RESULT IN AN IMPROPERLY FITTED SEAT BELT ON A PASSENGER. IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, A SEAT OCCUPANT MAY NOT BE PROPERLY RESTRAINED INCREASING THE RISK OF PERSONAL INJURY. 
Remedy:   
DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE SEAT BELT BEZEL AND REPLACE THE BEZEL AND CLIP, IF NECESSARY. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING AUGUST 2005. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. 
Notes:   
CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION’S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236; (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 

[ifcar]

I would normally post only after I came away with evidence.  But, I'm in a post-whoring mood. :)  So, I'll post my intentions of going to the NHTSA and look up any defect investigations and the exact wording of their summary of the recall.

That should be interesting. If Toyota was in fact forced to carry out the recall, it was a rather stupid move of them. Not only is it bad publicity, but it's only delaying the inevitable to wait for a NHTSA order.

[ifcar]

That was incredibly stupid of Toyota. How often are recalls forced in relation to voluntary, do you have any rough estimate of a ratio?

[bobwill]

After you mentioned waiting, I thought that I'd also supply the dates of the investigation.
I had thought that it was just a double listing for the defect investigation, but there are two entries with different investigation numbers.  One's the original defect investigation that I posted the summary of, the other, I assume is for the engineering analysis mentioned the first summary, as it was opened the day that the original investigation was closed.

NHTSA Action Number : PE05008 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A
Make : TOYOTA Model: SIENNA
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.  Year : 2004
Component : SEAT BELTS
Date Investigation Opened : February 10, 2005
Date Investigation Closed : June 13, 2005 


NHTSA Action Number : EA05010 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : 05V327000
Make : TOYOTA Model: SIENNA
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.  Year : 2004
Component : SEAT BELTS
Date Investigation Opened : June 13, 2005
Date Investigation Closed : Open 

[bobwill]

That was incredibly stupid of Toyota. How often are recalls forced in relation to voluntary, do you have any rough estimate of a ratio?

Probably almost all are forced.
Really, from the manufacturer's standpoint, why spend the money to investigate the problem yourself when the government will do it for you, especially on something like this.  These recalls are usually done after only a few dozen reports, if you were running a company that produces millions of anything a year would you recall all of them based on the reports of 10 owners?

[ifcar]

That was incredibly stupid of Toyota. How often are recalls forced in relation to voluntary, do you have any rough estimate of a ratio?

Probably almost all are forced.
Really, from the manufacturer's standpoint, why spend the money to investigate the problem yourself when the government will do it for you, especially on something like this.  These recalls are usually done after only a few dozen reports, if you were running a company that produces millions of anything a year would you recall all of them based on the reports of 10 owners?

They're forcing them anyway, what difference does it make?

Also, doesn't NHTSA suggests a recall before mandating it?

[bobwill]

That was incredibly stupid of Toyota. How often are recalls forced in relation to voluntary, do you have any rough estimate of a ratio?

Probably almost all are forced.
Really, from the manufacturer's standpoint, why spend the money to investigate the problem yourself when the government will do it for you, especially on something like this.  These recalls are usually done after only a few dozen reports, if you were running a company that produces millions of anything a year would you recall all of them based on the reports of 10 owners?

They're forcing them anyway, what difference does it make?

Also, doesn't NHTSA suggests a recall before mandating it?

That could have happened here.
One difference is, the NHTSA spends the money researching, and analyzing the problem, not toyota.  Of course, the NHTSA money comes from taxes when indirectly comes out of toyota, in part.

The summary isn't specific enough to say that it was forced, so my wording was a bit harsh.

One view I have, 10 complaints out of 435,000, heck, you poll 435,000 people you'll probably find atleast 10 that don't know how to use their three-point seatbelts. :D

[ifcar]

Isn't the recall about how they function in an accident though? NHTSA probably wouldn't be involved otherwise.  

[bobwill]

Not sure, I can find out, they allow you to look up owner complaints as well.

[bobwill]

Make:? TOYOTA?
Model:? SIENNA?
Type:? PASSENGER CAR?
Year:? 2004?
Complaint Number:? 10074750?
Summary:??
RIGHT SIDE SECOND ROW SEAT BELT FAILS EVERY 2000 TO 3000 MILES. ENCASEMENT IS LOCATED ON THE SEAT ITSELF INSTEAD OF THE ROOF OF THE VEHICLE. THIS CLIP HOLDING THE ENCASEMENT TOGETHER POPS OUT ALLOWING THE SEAT BELT TO CATCH IN OPENING BELOW, CAUSING THE SEAT BELT TO FAIL. A CHILD OR PASSENGER COULD BE SERIOUSLY HURT. MOST PEOPLE WON'T EVEN REALIZE THERE IS A PROBLEM UNLESS THEY CHECK THIS BELT REGULARLY AS CHILD PASSENGERS GENERALLY WON'T TELL YOU WHEN THE BELT DOESN'T NOT OPERATE CORRECTLY. *JB?

Make:? TOYOTA?
Model:? SIENNA?
Type:? PASSENGER CAR?
Year:? 2004?
Complaint Number:? 10116734?
Summary:??
1. MID ROW PASSENGER CAPTAINS CHAIR SEAT BELT-SHOULDER HARNESS WEBBING JAMS. . TOOK VEHICLE TO DEALER--REPLACED PLASTIC BELT GUIDE. DID NOT IMPROVE SITUATION. JAMMED BEFORE I LEFT THE DEALERSHIP. 3. I NOW USE STRAPLING TAPE TO HOLD GUIDE IN PLACE. STILL CAN HAVE JAM PROBLEMS. . PURCHASED THIS VEHICLE BECAUSE OF SAFETY RATING, SINCE I TRANSPORT MY GRANDCHILDREN ON A REGULAR BASIS. HAVE BEEN VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH TOYOTA'S "NON RESPONSE" TO THE PROBLEM. 5. I FEEL MANY PERSONS ARE NOT AWARE OF THE PROBLEM SINCE CHILDREN ARE THE USUAL PASSENGERS IN THIS POSITION & ARE NOT AWARE THAT THIS MALFUNCTION SHOULD BE REPORTED.*AK?

Make:? TOYOTA?
Model:? SIENNA?
Type:? PASSENGER CAR?
Year:? 2004?
Complaint Number:? 10126142?
Summary:? 
SEAT BELT GETS JAMMED IN THE GUIDES, DOES NOT RETRACT. THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY CONCERN BECAUSE WHEN SEAT BELT DOES NOT RETRACT IT IS USSLESS. DEALER REPLACED GUIDES BUT STILL OCCURING. SAME ISSUE HAPPENED IN LOANER SIENNA. GETTING PASSED AROUND CALLING TOYOTA.?

I could go on, but the post has enough quotes, and that's all there is for 2004, I'd have to do the search again for 2005.

Doesn't look like anyone put up with it long enough to get injured though.  Yes, it's entirely about accident performance.

Unless people filed it under general complaints or something, I only counted a total of 5 complaints regarding seatbelts between 2004 and 2005.

[TBR]

Unless you're joking, prove it.

I've never seen an incident where Toyota has willingly recalled a vehicle (or Honda for that matter).  

[ifcar]

Unless you're joking, prove it.

I've never seen an incident where Toyota has willingly recalled a vehicle (or Honda for that matter).

I believe they finally recalled on the sludge issue, and Honda recalled its transmissions.

Reports usually do not specify whether a recall was voluntary or mandatory, so you have no way of knowing which are which without detailed research.

[TBR]

Unless you're joking, prove it.

I've never seen an incident where Toyota has willingly recalled a vehicle (or Honda for that matter).

I believe they finally recalled on the sludge issue, and Honda recalled its transmissions.

Reports usually do not specify whether a recall was voluntary or mandatory, so you have no way of knowing which are which without detailed research.

It took them years to do those two recalls, they may not have been ordered to do them by the NHTSA, but they were forced to by their customers.  

[bobwill]

My theory about a lot of automotive news is that it tends to come from business writers who don't care about cars, and are stuck with the job.  I say this because there seems to be a major lack of research, they only seem to publish almost exact copies of press releases from either government agencies, or from the companies themselves.  And, when they try to paraphrase, they unintentionally misinterpret.  Think back to the Saturn Vue suspension debacle, most sources reported that the vehicle flipped, when in fact it did not; also, with this report when I first came across it I thought that they were recalling the vehicles because the seatbelt was getting hung up and wasn't retracting when the occupant got out of the vehicle, I know I've had that happen in every vehicle I've driven at some point, and the hardly seems like a safety issue to me. :)

If they started publishing some of the more disturbing trends in owner complaints, and TSBs being issued you'd realize that there doesn't seem to be any innocents in the automotive manufacturing world.

I know that when I read msn's article on GM's hybrid buses that it was almost an exact copy of GM's press release, with almost no revisions.

[ifcar]

According to a Toyota press release, it was indeed a voluntary recall.