Motorcycles.

[Eye of the Tiger]

So anyways, I've been thinking more and more how awesome and convenient it would be to have a motorcycle instead of my car up here at college. My sister has said numerous times she would much rather have my car than her Saturn Ion. So she could just take my car and sell hers, and then I could buy a motorcycle.

Anyways, what tips would you guys have that I could use as ammo when I go home over Thanksgiving to try and talk my dad into letting me take a MSF and then buy a motorcycle later on? I have brought it up before and he has said no, but my mom is pretty indifferent. She had a scooter when she was in high school and college.

If I could buy I would probably get a SV650 as my first pick, and then probably the 2008 ninja 250. The pre-2008 ones look awful IMO in comparison.

And yes I said the 250s were horrible earlier in this thread, but they have grown on me, regretfully. 

SV650 and a Ninja 250 are like crazy different. Get a Harley Fatboy.

[Minpin]

I'm not saying it's a good thing that I have a car payment.  I'm saying that I have a car payment, one that I took on based on expected future cash flows (how was I supposed to know the world was going to end 10 days ago?), and can't afford to drop $250 on an investment that may not have a return. 

Don't talk to me like you know what the fuck you're talking about.

Don't talk to me with that hostility. I'm just conversing with you. 


Regardless, maybe you aren't cut out to work in Finance. That attitude will make you have a very prosperous career flippin burgers.

You should make big purchases like this only when you know for a fact you can pay for it regardless of what happens in the stock market or general economy. Especially after this sub-prime mess, you should know better.

[Minpin]

SV650 and a Ninja 250 are like crazy different. Get a Harley Fatboy.

But they are both great beginner bikes from what I have been told though, right?

[S204STi]

Minpin, motorcycles involve a higher level of risk and personal responsibility than operating a car.  It requires a higher level of operator skill and attention, other cars are not always aware of your presence, nor do they always know how to behave around motorcycles, and in the case of an accident the only thing between you and serious injury/death is your protective gear.  Also, you will pay a lot in insurance if you finance a bike, so plan on paying cash for one if you want to avoid that.  Nevertheless you should probably still consider having a high amount of personal injury coverage in case you are injured.  Also, they are very impractical if you need to haul stuff around on a regular basis.

That said, they also get superb fuel economy in every instance, the majority of them more so than a Toyota Prius, while simultaneously being capable of walking away from most cars on the street, particularly the 600+cc sportbikes which in some cases are quicker than nearly any other car in production, making them both economical and fun.

I mention these things as factors in my own decision making process.  I decided that it was worth the fun and economy of owning one long term to take on the inherent risks.  There is a saying, "You've spent your whole life trying to save it but you forgot how to live."  There is risk in everything we do, ultimately.

[S204STi]

But they are both great beginner bikes from what I have been told though, right?

Depends on what your priorities are in a beginner's bike... the SV650 with scorch its way to 60 in 3.5 seconds and does an 11 second 1/4 mile.  The 250R is about as quick in both measurements as a sporty economy car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

But they are both great beginner bikes from what I have been told though, right?

What type of beginner bike you get depends on how good of a beginner you are. They are crazy different in performance. It's like cross shopping an Accent and a GTI.

[S204STi]

Depends on what your priorities are in a beginner's bike... the SV650 with scorch its way to 60 in 3.5 seconds and does an 11 second 1/4 mile.  The 250R is about as quick in both measurements as a sporty economy car.

What type of beginner bike you get depends on how good of a beginner you are. They are crazy different in performance. It's like cross shopping an Accent and a GTI.

There, two people think alike on a matter, which is rare here, so take our word for it.

[Raza]

Don't talk to me with that hostility. I'm just conversing with you. 


Regardless, maybe you aren't cut out to work in Finance. That attitude will make you have a very prosperous career flippin burgers.

You should make big purchases like this only when you know for a fact you can pay for it regardless of what happens in the stock market or general economy. Especially after this sub-prime mess, you should know better.

Okay, Opie. 

[Minpin]

Minpin, motorcycles involve a higher level of risk and personal responsibility than operating a car.  It requires a higher level of operator skill and attention, other cars are not always aware of your presence, nor do they always know how to behave around motorcycles, and in the case of an accident the only thing between you and serious injury/death is your protective gear.  Also, you will pay a lot in insurance if you finance a bike, so plan on paying cash for one if you want to avoid that.  Nevertheless you should probably still consider having a high amount of personal injury coverage in case you are injured.  Also, they are very impractical if you need to haul stuff around on a regular basis.

That said, they also get superb fuel economy in every instance, the majority of them more so than a Toyota Prius, while simultaneously being capable of walking away from most cars on the street, particularly the 600+cc sportbikes which in some cases are quicker than nearly any other car in production, making them both economical and fun.

I mention these things as factors in my own decision making process.  I decided that it was worth the fun and economy of owning one long term to take on the inherent risks.  There is a saying, "You've spent your whole life trying to save it but you forgot how to live."  There is risk in everything we do, ultimately.

Money isn't an issue, really. As long as it's under 5 grand or so. My dad pays for the insurance and gas.

And yes, I know motorcycles are dangerous. I didn't come out of the womb yesterday. 

But the main reason is it's just so much more convenient for me to have two wheels instead of4 right now. I don't have to haul or carry anything, and parking for cars is nowhere to be found around here, yet they have more motorcycle parking than they know what to do with at the moment.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Money isn't an issue, really. As long as it's under 5 grand or so. My dad pays for the insurance and gas.

And yes, I know motorcycles are dangerous. I didn't come out of the womb yesterday. 

But the main reason is it's just so much more convenient for me to have two wheels instead of4 right now. I don't have to haul or carry anything, and parking for cars is nowhere to be found around here, yet they have more motorcycle parking than they know what to do with at the moment.

What are your top priorities?

-economy
-speed
-reliability
-easy to ride
-looks
?

$5k will buy you ALOT of bike. You can pretty much pick anything you want.
Ninja 250, GS500, EX500, Ninja 650, SV650, CB600, Seca II, FZR600, Katana 600, any number of cruisers, dual sports, I could go on...

[S204STi]

Yeah, if you go used $5000 opens a lot of doors.  Just do a cursory search on CL or Ebay, of Cycletrader.com and you will find a boat-load of used bikes for that money.  Sometimes you can even find listings for new EX500 Ninjas for that money, and that is one of the bikes now on the top of my list.  A used 250 can be found for $2500 or less depending on MY and miles.

[Minpin]

I realize 5k is plenty enough to find me a good bike, my main reason for posting though was to get some ammo I could use when I bring it up over thanksgiving. I don't really know what I could say other than the 250 is slower than the car I drive now. Mentioning anything about the price really wouldn't do anything good for my situation, honestly, neither about MPG. I need to know things about safety and how most bike accidents are because of recklessness and doing stupid things like wheelies on freeways. I don't know if that is the case but that is the kind of stuff I would be looking for.

[S204STi]

I can't talk your dad into it for you, I have no idea what his reasons are for denying your request in the first place.  That's the neat thing about being an adult, you get to do what you please.

[Raza]

I realize 5k is plenty enough to find me a good bike, my main reason for posting though was to get some ammo I could use when I bring it up over thanksgiving. I don't really know what I could say other than the 250 is slower than the car I drive now. Mentioning anything about the price really wouldn't do anything good for my situation, honestly, neither about MPG. I need to know things about safety and how most bike accidents are because of recklessness and doing stupid things like wheelies on freeways. I don't know if that is the case but that is the kind of stuff I would be looking for.

I'd wager that most motorcycle accidents can be chalked up to the inattentiveness of average automobile drivers.  They don't pay much attention to other cars, and bikes are even harder to see.  It's going to be tough convincing your parents that bikes are safe. 

I'd also wager that motorcyclists have a much lower crash rate.  So if your parents don't say "well, that's because there are fewer bikes on the road than cars" that might help. 

Bikes do get fucked on stuff like this though.  They're seen as being so frivolous, self indulgent, and unnecessary that people write them off all the time for the most minor things.  I personally know two people who aren't allowed to ride because they had a parent crash a bike (neither of the parents were at fault), but if they crashed in a car, I'm entirely certain that they'd still be allowed to drive. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yeah, it's pretty much bullshit, and that's what you should tell your parents, Raza.

[Raza]

Yeah, it's pretty much bullshit, and that's what you should tell your parents, Raza.

I agree.  And have told them.

But while I'm still halfway being led by their purse strings like a marionette, there's nothing I can do about it.  I'll be completely on my own soon enough, and at that point it's just a matter of time and money, and whether or not I want to save up for a used Elise.  When I'm free of their money, I'm free of obligation.  What's the worst thing they could do to me?  Not talk to me?  That sounds like an incentive more than anything.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I agree.  And have told them.

But while I'm still halfway being led by their purse strings like a marionette, there's nothing I can do about it.  I'll be completely on my own soon enough, and at that point it's just a matter of time and money, and whether or not I want to save up for a used Elise.  When I'm free of their money, I'm free of obligation.  What's the worst thing they could do to me?  Not talk to me?  That sounds like an incentive more than anything.

I'd rather get free ASAP than worry about a used Elise :/

[S204STi]

Hey man, once you move out on your own and start paying the bills your parents could go pound sand down a rat hole, for what their rules would be worth.  That's my suggestion.

[Raza]

I'd rather get free ASAP than worry about a used Elise :/

Free comes first.  I'll be out of school and credit card debt free by the end of the year, and if I have a job, I'm set and free and just have to worry about cash.  With a steady income, I could take a loan on a used car, but I'd rather save up the money and pay in cash, or be in the position to put a substantial amount down so I could pay it off in a year or less.  I'm not really looking forward to taking on another long term car payment.  The Wolfsburg came out of (luck and) necessity, but I was not happy with myself that I took another lease. 

I've got a lot of options, and once I sign up with a firm I'll figure out what to do.

[Minpin]

How would this fare for a good first bike?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___Ducati-748s_W0QQitemZ190254884716QQddnZMotorcyclesQQddiZ2283QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190254884716&_trkparms=72:727|39:1|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

[MX793]

How would this fare for a good first bike?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___Ducati-748s_W0QQitemZ190254884716QQddnZMotorcyclesQQddiZ2283QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190254884716&_trkparms=72:727|39:1|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

If you've never ridden before, not very good.  Not to mention that Ducatis are expensive to maintain.  The Desmodromic valves require fairly frequent and very expensive adjustments.

[hotrodalex]

I wouldn't recommend that as a first bike. Maybe a second, if you're skilled enough.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I'd wager that most motorcycle accidents can be chalked up to the inattentiveness of average automobile drivers.  They don't pay much attention to other cars, and bikes are even harder to see. 

Yep! And I've been a victim twice!

[Champ]

We took it to a little dirt track yesterday and it's a FKING BLAST!

So much fun!

Video footage of our little adventure there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv7Zr4J1sXM

It looks slow, but when you are on them it's very fast...being only inches from the ground!  I wiped out a bunch

After 1:45 it gets a little more action

4:00 is a pretty nice crash


Ice tires are coming this winter...my parents live on a lake and will let me use the snowblower to clear a race track..

[Minpin]

If you've never ridden before, not very good.  Not to mention that Ducatis are expensive to maintain.  The Desmodromic valves require fairly frequent and very expensive adjustments.

I wouldn't recommend that as a first bike. Maybe a second, if you're skilled enough.

I should have added a smiley in my post. I was joking because I've always been told that Ducatis are the best of the best. Anyways on a more serious note, I was looking at the 500r as well. Would that be a decent first bike? http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=315

I'm gonna try to go to a kawasaki dealer sometime and look. Would they let me sit on the bikes there and stuff? Even though I don't know how to ride, I would like to see if the 250r would even be comfortable for me to sit on and ride.

[S204STi]

I'm 5'9" and I fit comfortably on the 250R, and IIRC the 500 has very similar dimensions, so if you are about my height you'll be happy.

Most dealers would let you sit on one if you asked, I'm sure.  Part of buying a bike is finding out if it fits you comfortably.

[Cookie Monster]

I've realized that pretty much most of the crashes on motorcycles happen from the bike being a douchehole...

Plus, I'd say I'm a pretty attentive person. I've nearly gotten hit by cars on many occasions on my bicycle and I can be a pretty defensive person. Talking my parents into a bike is going to be impossible but they would be perfect for my university.

BTW do motorcycles have the underseat storage thingy for gloves or something?

[MX793]

I've realized that pretty much most of the crashes on motorcycles happen from the bike being a douchehole...

Plus, I'd say I'm a pretty attentive person. I've nearly gotten hit by cars on many occasions on my bicycle and I can be a pretty defensive person. Talking my parents into a bike is going to be impossible but they would be perfect for my university.

BTW do motorcycles have the underseat storage thingy for gloves or something?

There are a lot of different causes for motorcycle crashes.  A lot of things that you don't think twice about in a car could cause a crash on a bike.  These include hitting a patch of pea gravel or sand while in a turn, those stips of tar that the highway dept put down on roads to seal cracks, and numerous small animals that you could hit with your car with no ill effects (something as small as a squirrel can take a bike out, and hitting a larger animal like a deer is generally fatal).

And yes, many bikes have some form or underseat storage.  Bikes with underseat exhausts generally don't have any usable space.  Even newer bikes with traditional side exhausts don't have much space under there and what's there is mostly taken up by the tool kit.  Mine's big enough to hold the tool kit, my paperwork (registration and insurance) the owners manual and a fairly thin/light pair of gloves (I usually wear an old pair of motocross gloves).

[Minpin]

How's this bike? http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/detail.aspx?id=268

I realize it's a bit more expensive but I reckon I could find one used. Is it too much engine for a beginner?


Edit: Also this one

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/detail.aspx?id=372

[Eye of the Tiger]

How's this bike? http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/detail.aspx?id=268

I realize it's a bit more expensive but I reckon I could find one used. Is it too much engine for a beginner?

That's awesome. I can't believe it's still carbureted, though.