IFCAR Comparo: Entry-Lux Sedans

[TBR]

Oh really? Do it. This is what I figure for the Avalon:

Avalon>Five Hundred>Freestyle>Expedition>Suburban.

And, with the your low readership you can't afford to have an unfriendly format with unreasonable comparos.

[ifcar]

Oh really? Do it. This is what I figure for the Avalon:

Avalon>Five Hundred>Freestyle>Expedition>Suburban.

And, with the your low readership you can't afford to have an unfriendly format with unreasonable comparos.

Five Hundred doesn't compete with the Freestyle, Freestyle doesn't compete with the Expedition.

And I have Avalon>ES330>TL>325i.

And you disagreeing with the format doesn't make it unfriendly, and you disagreeing with the cars included doesn't make it unreasonable.  

[TBR]

Oh really? Do it. This is what I figure for the Avalon:

Avalon>Five Hundred>Freestyle>Expedition>Suburban.

And, with the your low readership you can't afford to have an unfriendly format with unreasonable comparos.

Five Hundred doesn't compete with the Freestyle, Freestyle doesn't compete with the Expedition.

And I have Avalon>ES330>TL>325i.

So you're telling me that people looking at the Five Hundred will not consider the Freestyle? And that people looking at the Freestyle will not consider the Expedition? You would be wrong.

[TBR]

Also, do you really think that some looking at an Avalon would seriously consider a ES330? It costs 5k more, is smaller, has fewer features, and less power.  

[ifcar]

Oh really? Do it. This is what I figure for the Avalon:

Avalon>Five Hundred>Freestyle>Expedition>Suburban.

And, with the your low readership you can't afford to have an unfriendly format with unreasonable comparos.

Five Hundred doesn't compete with the Freestyle, Freestyle doesn't compete with the Expedition.

And I have Avalon>ES330>TL>325i.

So you're telling me that people looking at the Five Hundred will not consider the Freestyle? And that people looking at the Freestyle will not consider the Expedition? You would be wrong.

People CAN consider anything. Whether many do is another matter.

[ifcar]

Also, do you really think that some looking at an Avalon would seriously consider a ES330? It costs 5k more, is smaller, has fewer features, and less power.

Price difference of $5,000? What are you comparing, base vs. base? They are similar cars, one just has more room and power and one has more badge.

[TBR]

I am telling you that they will and have, to say that someone looking at a Five Hundred would look at a Freestyle or that someone looking at a Freestyle would look at an Expedition is just as reasonable as saying that someone looking at a Avalon would look at a ES330. Yes, it isn't likely, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.  

[ifcar]

Either way, there really isn't any point to this. What do you expect me to say, "Geez, you're right, I'll throw this out and try again!"?

I had to make this decision before I started and weighed every factor that you're putting forward. And I made my decision, and you telling me that it was wrong is not going to convince me otherwise.

Also, I know that if I separated them into groups, you'd be the first to insist that this car should be and that car shouldn't be included. You can argue against a little group, but in a larger one you can just look at what you are  interested in, and ignore the rest. Make up your own little groups, and you can tell their order by removing everything else from between them.

[ifcar]

I am telling you that they will and have, to say that someone looking at a Five Hundred would look at a Freestyle or that someone looking at a Freestyle would look at an Expedition is just as reasonable as saying that someone looking at a Avalon would look at a ES330. Yes, it isn't likely, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

The Freestyle is the size and price of an Explorer, not an Expedition. They could very easily be cross-shopped, but Freestyle vs. Expedition makes as much sense as Explorer vs. Expedition or Escape vs. Explorer. Or Focus ZXW vs. Escape.

[TBR]

Oops, there isn't a 5k difference, I didn't realize that the Avalon was as overpriced as the ES330 but I just ran the numbers and discovered that that is the case.  

[TBR]

I am telling you that they will and have, to say that someone looking at a Five Hundred would look at a Freestyle or that someone looking at a Freestyle would look at an Expedition is just as reasonable as saying that someone looking at a Avalon would look at a ES330. Yes, it isn't likely, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

The Freestyle is the size and price of an Explorer, not an Expedition. They could very easily be cross-shopped, but Freestyle vs. Expedition makes as much sense as Explorer vs. Expedition or Escape vs. Explorer. Or Focus ZXW vs. Escape.

I suspect many people have made those same comparisions.  

[TBR]

Either way, there really isn't any point to this. What do you expect me to say, "Geez, you're right, I'll throw this out and try again!"?

I had to make this decision before I started and weighed every factor that you're putting forward. And I made my decision, and you telling me that it was wrong is not going to convince me otherwise.

Also, I know that if I separated them into groups, you'd be the first to insist that this car should be and that car shouldn't be included. You can argue against a little group, but in a larger one you can just look at what you are  interested in, and ignore the rest. Make up your own little groups, and you can tell their order by removing everything else from between them.

I am telling you that you didn't make a good decision, using 26 cars make your website even more difficult to use than it was previously (your format sucks).

[ifcar]

Oops, there isn't a 5k difference, I didn't realize that the Avalon was as overpriced as the ES330 but I just ran the numbers and discovered that that is the case.

Overpriced compared to what? You can get an Avalon Touring with leather for $29K sticker, that's not overpriced for a large sedan.

You can option up an Avalon to $38K, but that's with features like adaptive cruise control found in very few cars south of $60,000. A nicely-equipped Avalon XLS would be $32K-$33K.  

[ifcar]

I am telling you that they will and have, to say that someone looking at a Five Hundred would look at a Freestyle or that someone looking at a Freestyle would look at an Expedition is just as reasonable as saying that someone looking at a Avalon would look at a ES330. Yes, it isn't likely, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

The Freestyle is the size and price of an Explorer, not an Expedition. They could very easily be cross-shopped, but Freestyle vs. Expedition makes as much sense as Explorer vs. Expedition or Escape vs. Explorer. Or Focus ZXW vs. Escape.

I suspect many people have made those same comparisions.

There's no accounting for taste.

[TBR]

Also, I would make my own order except your website is so difficult to use, the only way to figure it out would be to either open 26 different tabs and then close the ones I don't need or write everything down, I don't want to do that much work to read the reviews of an amatuer. You have to cater to the reader with your design, format, and comparos, not the other way around.  

[TBR]

Oops, there isn't a 5k difference, I didn't realize that the Avalon was as overpriced as the ES330 but I just ran the numbers and discovered that that is the case.

Overpriced compared to what? You can get an Avalon Touring with leather for $29K sticker, that's not overpriced for a large sedan.

You can option up an Avalon to $38K, but that's with features like adaptive cruise control found in very few cars south of $60,000. A nicely-equipped Avalon XLS would be $32K-$33K.

That would be at least 4k more than a comparable Five Hundred and at least 2k more than a 300.

[ifcar]

Either way, there really isn't any point to this. What do you expect me to say, "Geez, you're right, I'll throw this out and try again!"?

I had to make this decision before I started and weighed every factor that you're putting forward. And I made my decision, and you telling me that it was wrong is not going to convince me otherwise.

Also, I know that if I separated them into groups, you'd be the first to insist that this car should be and that car shouldn't be included. You can argue against a little group, but in a larger one you can just look at what you are  interested in, and ignore the rest. Make up your own little groups, and you can tell their order by removing everything else from between them.

I am telling you that you didn't make a good decision, using 26 cars make your website even more difficult to use than it was previously (your format sucks).

And you're expecting, what, an apology?

You are not offering constructive criticism by informing me what you feel sucks and what does not. Neither are you offering constructive criticism by saying that starting over is the only solution.

You'd be openly negative no matter what I put out unless you agreed with every last judgement in it, so why should I continue to listen to you?

In your world, there are two viewpoints: yours, and stupid viewpoints. And that doesn't help either of us.  

[ifcar]

Oops, there isn't a 5k difference, I didn't realize that the Avalon was as overpriced as the ES330 but I just ran the numbers and discovered that that is the case.

Overpriced compared to what? You can get an Avalon Touring with leather for $29K sticker, that's not overpriced for a large sedan.

You can option up an Avalon to $38K, but that's with features like adaptive cruise control found in very few cars south of $60,000. A nicely-equipped Avalon XLS would be $32K-$33K.

That would be at least 4k more than a comparable Five Hundred and at least 2k more than a 300.

The Five Hundred is the value among full-size sedans, it's not the norm.

I'll do a price comparison, but first I need to know if you're going to want sticker or real-world pricing.

[TBR]

I suggested an index and you blew that off, when I have offered constructive criticism in the past you have completely ignored it, thinking you know better. You might know more about cars (though I don't think it is likely), but I certainly know a lot more about the way a good website looks and works than you do.

[TBR]

Sticker, you like to complain when I don't use consumer set prices but that is hardly reasonable, you can't fault a car because consumers are willing to pay extra.

[ifcar]

I suggested an index and you blew that off, when I have offered constructive criticism in the past you have completely ignored it, thinking you know better. You might know more about cars (though I don't think it is likely), but I certainly know a lot more about the way a good website looks and works than you do.

You are the webdesign expert between us, but I already stated the reasons that I don't plan on introducing an index.

And what other criticism/advice are you referring to? I wouldn't "blow it off" just to be rude, I'd choose based on what I thought was most useful/convenient.

[TBR]

I am refering to what I told you when you first designed your website, you have to remember that it doesn't matter if you like the way it looks, it only matters what your audience thinks.

Your reason was because it would interrupt the "flow", that doesn't even make sense. Having an easy to use interface will keep your readers there, that is a good thing, even if it doesn't "flow" properly. I have no desire to look at a website if requires me to go through 27 pages when I am just looking for the review of one car.

[R33 GT-R]

I really enjoy cross pollination.

[ifcar]

Oops, there isn't a 5k difference, I didn't realize that the Avalon was as overpriced as the ES330 but I just ran the numbers and discovered that that is the case.

Overpriced compared to what? You can get an Avalon Touring with leather for $29K sticker, that's not overpriced for a large sedan.

You can option up an Avalon to $38K, but that's with features like adaptive cruise control found in very few cars south of $60,000. A nicely-equipped Avalon XLS would be $32K-$33K.

That would be at least 4k more than a comparable Five Hundred and at least 2k more than a 300.

All the cars are equipped with heated leather power seats, a 6-disc CD changer, a sunroof, traction control, and side airbags. MSRPs.

LaCrosse CXS: $31,355
300 Touring: $31,465
Five Hundred Limited: $28,455
Maxima SL: $32,330
Avalon XLS: $31,580

So I suppose all large sedans are overpriced. After all, they cost more than the Five Hundred.

[BMWDave]

I really enjoy cross pollination.

 

Random.

[TBR]

What happened to 33-34k for a well equipped on? I was going primarly off of that number.  

[ifcar]

I am refering to what I told you when you first designed your website, you have to remember that it doesn't matter if you like the way it looks, it only matters what your audience thinks.

Your reason was because it would interrupt the "flow", that doesn't even make sense. Having an easy to use interface will keep your readers there, that is a good thing, even if it doesn't "flow" properly. I have no desire to look at a website if requires me to go through 27 pages when I am just looking for the review of one car.

It's a comparison test, the cars are being compared. It's not a row of individual reviews.

And I am currently my primary audience, so what I think does indeed matter most. And I don't think the color scheme looks like a default setting, and don't see how or why anyone else would either.  

[ifcar]

What happened to 33-34k for a well equipped on? I was going primarly off of that number.

I was including a navigation system as "well-equipped", but you can't get one in the Five Hundred or LaCrosse for comparison.

[TBR]

I am refering to what I told you when you first designed your website, you have to remember that it doesn't matter if you like the way it looks, it only matters what your audience thinks.

Your reason was because it would interrupt the "flow", that doesn't even make sense. Having an easy to use interface will keep your readers there, that is a good thing, even if it doesn't "flow" properly. I have no desire to look at a website if requires me to go through 27 pages when I am just looking for the review of one car.

It's a comparison test, the cars are being compared. It's not a row of individual reviews.

Not if your reader doesn't want to read it all at once and is just looking for a bit of information on one car.  

[ifcar]

I am refering to what I told you when you first designed your website, you have to remember that it doesn't matter if you like the way it looks, it only matters what your audience thinks.

Your reason was because it would interrupt the "flow", that doesn't even make sense. Having an easy to use interface will keep your readers there, that is a good thing, even if it doesn't "flow" properly. I have no desire to look at a website if requires me to go through 27 pages when I am just looking for the review of one car.

It's a comparison test, the cars are being compared. It's not a row of individual reviews.

Not if your reader doesn't want to read it all at once and is just looking for a bit of information on one car.

Individual reviews are being phased in gradually as well. I haven't gotten to upscale or large sedans yet.