VW Passat R36 vs. BMW 335i vs. Audi A4 3.2 Quattro vs. Saab 9? Turbo X

[Pommes-T]

I've just visited autobild.de and read an interesting article. It's not a complete article (would have to pay for that), but what I read in the free version is interesting.

The most interesting points:

The Bimmer seems to eat the others! Instead of 306hp it kicks 348,1 horses' asses (that's 14 %more)!! autobild says the car ran so well, they suspected "illegal doping" (Bmw sending them a stronger than usual car), but on Internet forums 335i owners also write about way stronger cars than in the official specs. It goes from 0-100km/h in 5,5 and from 0-200 in 19,8 (with automatic transmissioon). The BMW "declassifies" the competitors! But only by looking at 0-anything times. It was slower around the Sachsenring raceway than the VW and Audi, because it oversteered and had a poorm roadholding. Wow, wouldn't have suspected that from a BMW...

The Passat was tested with 303,9 hp and is pretty close to the official specs.  (0-100: 5,9s)

The Audi was tested with 281,5hp (also way more hp than official), but got a slow 0-100km/h time (6,7s).

The Saab fucked it up. The Board Computer says "Ready for takeoff " (how ridiculous is that??) but after a highspeed test the engine overheated... New Saab customers should get a new software, since the old sofware seems to be bad programmed. The Saab was tested with 283,5hp and revved up poorly. Also the MT sucked: The stick was unprecise and had long ways between the gears, plus the gears had a too long ratio. (0-100: 6,4. 3rd fastest). Also the brakes had an incredible fading and the steering was unprecise. What a shitbox! Interior space was worst too. Oh, and it's the most expensive one.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vier-sportliche-kombis-im-test_783284.html
URL to the test with a photo archive.




All in all the Passat won, because of the safest roadholding, best interior space (by far) and cheap price (it'S not really cheap, but almost fully equipped). 2nd Audi, third BMW and waaaaaaaaaay behind the Saab.

[Colonel Cadillac]

My mom is most likely going to replace the Allroad with the A4 2.0T Avant and I have to say that I am extremely excited to drive that thing around. A second place finish is very strong (although behind parent company VW!). The BMW had poor roadholding and oversteered a lot? That's pretty odd considering how well the sedan and coupe do.

And I'm pertty dissapointed with the Saab, I was hoping for something incredible and at least average, but last?

[Pommes-T]

I guess german car-testers have a bit different priorities from americans, but Saab 9?s have never been considered good cars here. I remember a comparison from years ago where they tested 8 mainstreamers and the Saab was placed last behind the same platform using (also bad, but soon to be replaced) Vectra. I mean they are not really bad, but the competition (also japanese and french) is waaaaay better.

And the 95... Well. This once was a good car... when it competed with cars that can be bought on used car lots for 4000? now...

[sportyaccordy]

Man those are some cool wagons.

[TBR]

I want a R36

[AltinD]

I checked the 93 also when was looking for new car and I quickly ran away traumatized from the SAAB showroom. WTF was that???!!!!!!!!

[Champ]

Is the 9-3 priced differently in europe?  It is certainly much cheaper than the 335 and A4.

[nickdrinkwater]

Saab sucks, but then we already knew that.  GM should either invest in the brand or sell it to someone who can hopefully make some decent Saabs.

I guess the priority here was to choose a good estate car, hence the Passat beating the 335i.  If we were looking at sedans I think the BM would have won.

[Pommes-T]

Saab sucks, but then we already knew that.  GM should either invest in the brand or sell it to someone who can hopefully make some decent Saabs.

I guess the priority here was to choose a good estate car, hence the Passat beating the 335i.  If we were looking at sedans I think the BM would have won.

Don't think so. The BMW was attested poor handling (by comparison to the other sports-estates). I don't think that would have been so different by looking at the sedans. And then there'S still the AUdi on place 2.

[Pommes-T]

Is the 9-3 priced differently in europe?  It is certainly much cheaper than the 335 and A4.

A4: 41.650 Euro
BMW: 42.950 Euro
Saab: 47.900
VW: 46.400 (fully equipped incl. DSG)

I know what I'm talking about

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I wonder if the slower times of the BMW was traction related. BMW seems to have a problem with giving anything but M cars proper differentials. My 540 with a open diff is almost comical(but really it's very sad).

I've owned compact FWD nissan's that had a VLSD differential, and this was a 13K car new back in the early 90's. Why a 50K BMW 540 doesn't come with one is beyond me. I personally will never buy another non M BMW, so that solved the problem for me. At some point though they will realize they have to equip cars such as the 335, 535 and 550 with a LSD if they want them to be well recieved by DRIVERS of the car and not drivers of the badge(who could care less about how the car actually performs).

[FlatBlackCaddy]

A4: 41.650 Euro
BMW: 42.950 Euro
Saab: 47.900
VW: 46.400 (fully equipped incl. DSG)

I know what I'm talking about

The saab costs MORE than the 335, unreal.

[Cookie Monster]

A4: 41.650 Euro
BMW: 42.950 Euro
Saab: 47.900
VW: 46.400 (fully equipped incl. DSG)

I know what I'm talking about

He never said you didn't know what you're talking about, but the Saab is much cheaper in America.

[Pommes-T]

He never said you didn't know what you're talking about, but the Saab is much cheaper in America.

[Champ]

That's why I asked if prices were different in Europe!

Here in the states, a similarly equipped 335 is quite a bit more expensive... A4 as well.

[Pommes-T]

That's why I asked if prices were different in Europe!

Here in the states, a similarly equipped 335 is quite a bit more expensive... A4 as well.

Yeah, weird. And they really think they could sell it here.... 

[the Teuton]

A Turbo X is somewhere around $45,000 maxed out here in the States while a 335i (we don't get it in wagon form iirc) starts at about $40,000.  That wagon would probably cost upwards of $50,000 here in the US.

[r0tor]

thats a nice passat

[68_427]

The BMW just looks so plain in this company.

[Raza]

Based on looks alone, the Audi is the winner here!  That 0-62 time is pathetic for a car with that much power.  It's barely quicker than my 200bhp FWD compact sedan.

Although, the R36 does look damn good from the back.

This is an interesting turn for BMW.  RWD turns out to make it slower than the converted AWD of the R36 and the quattro of the A4?  I would never have guessed that.

Do they sell the R36 with a manual anywhere in the world?  In the US (and UK, I believe), it will be DSG only.

As it stands, I'll have to go with the R36 of this group.  The Turbo X wagon looks like a hearse, the Audi is too slow, and the BMW apparently handles like crap, and worst of all, it's a BMW. 

Wow, the Saab is the worst looking car in the group.  It's been a long time since that's happened.

[Colin]

You have to remember that the imfatuation with BMW is largely a UK press thing, although the US press are having a good go at emulating it........... the German motoring press almost always rate Audi above BMW it seems.

Not sure about the Passat R36. It took such a long time from launch to going on-sale, and then it got sneaked apologetically into the market, certainly in UK, as the timing was about as bad as it gets. I'm sure if you bought one, you'd not be disappointed, but I can't help but feel that it will remain a very low volume seller. 

[Raza]

You have to remember that the imfatuation with BMW is largely a UK press thing, although the US press are having a good go at emulating it........... the German motoring press almost always rate Audi above BMW it seems.

Not sure about the Passat R36. It took such a long time from launch to going on-sale, and then it got sneaked apologetically into the market, certainly in UK, as the timing was about as bad as it gets. I'm sure if you bought one, you'd not be disappointed, but I can't help but feel that it will remain a very low volume seller. 

Well, that's how the performance models usually are.  Do you think E63 AMGs outsell E350s?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well, that's how the performance models usually are.  Do you think E63 AMGs outsell E350s?

They should.

[nickdrinkwater]

Well, that's how the performance models usually are.  Do you think E63 AMGs outsell E350s?

Colin has a point.  Even cars like the R8 and RS6 are advertised on TV in the UK.  I haven't seen adverts or promotion of any type for the R36 - apparently a lot of dealers don't even have a demo.  The point is, hardly anyone knows about this car.

It's been on sale for a couple of months, but I've only seen two (and actually, it may have been the same one twice!) - I wouldn't be surprised if annual sales didn't break into four figures in Europe.

If that's all that VW is banking on, then I guess that's cool.

[r0tor]

Is there going to be an R Jetta?

[Raza]

Probably not.  US gets an Americanized Jetta soon.  Stupid idea.

[nickdrinkwater]

Probably not.  US gets an Americanized Jetta soon.  Stupid idea.

You're the only ones who really buy it.

[Raza]

You're the only ones who really buy it.

Then why bother building two models?  And we're getting an Americanized Passat as well, which I imagine means large, V6, automatic, and soft.  Basically an Accord with a VW badge. 

They tried this strategy (something similar, anyway) before, and QC for some models went into the toilet.  I'm worried about VWs in the future.  I'm also almost certain that I won't be able to buy a Jetta again because my tastes aren't exactly in line with the average American consumer.

[omicron]

Do they sell the R36 with a manual anywhere in the world?  In the US (and UK, I believe), it will be DSG only.

DSG-only here; in fact, not a single manual in the entire Passat range. The 6-speed automatic is the sole transmission for the 2.0T, and DSG comes on the diesels and V6 petrols, I believe.

[Raza]

DSG-only here; in fact, not a single manual in the entire Passat range. The 6-speed automatic is the sole transmission for the 2.0T, and DSG comes on the diesels and V6 petrols, I believe.

You used to be able to get a Passat manual, but with the introduction of the CC, they killed the stick for the standard sedan.  You can get it on the CC though.